Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [NEW TIERING RESULTS POST 11597]

pika pal

pika pal

is a Community Contributor
Well, good bye Lando-T. It was the only way to prevent a drop into UU if he's kicked upstairs first

Actual talk though I'm at a loss for what's left after the given denials. Only potential things I can think of any negative press for left are Garganacl and Weavile (unless Torkoal's being tested as a proxy for Sun)
 
MattC (Banned)

MattC (Banned)

Finchinator is hypin up this suspect test like terastallization will finally be banned (it won't be). FOR GODSAKE pleeeease have Kingambit on this damn suspect thing. It's still very oppressive -- nothing has changed with it at all, and it's still as uncompetitive as it was from like 2 months ago

The only reason I see why Kingambit is still in the tier is because Finch is clinging onto it as his banner mon. Just revert back to Toxapex an nobody will notice bro
 
Avira

Avira

Alternator said:
Are we or are we not at the point of wild guessing? A bluff by one -nator being called by another -nator is at least as reasonable as Ting-Lu.
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I can't agree with that given the Council has ruled out banning Booster Energy previously and explicitly said that was 0 grounds to ban the weather rocks at the moment.
 
DaddyBuzzwole

DaddyBuzzwole

Avira said:
Let's play the guess the Pokemon that will be on the survey game.

My guesses are based on Finchinator and other OU Council members' posts recently.

Gholdengo
Gouging Fire
Kingambit
Kyurem
Ogerpon-Wellspring
Raging Bolt
Roaring Moon
Volcarona

If Volcarona is not one of the 8, I see it being Walking Wake instead, but I think it will be Volcarona.

If I were to make a guess, I'd say Gouging Fire is the only Pokemon right now that has the community support for a ban (the 60%+1 vote margin) by regular suspect test voters, so I hope Gouging Fire is the mon that is the next suspect target as I believe the rest will end up with DNB verdicts.
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my guesses are roaring moon, kyurem, raging bolt twice, and gouging fire three times
MattC (Banned) said:
The only reason I see why Kingambit is still in the tier is because Finch is clinging onto it as his banner mon. Just revert back to Toxapex an nobody will notice bro
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my brother in chrother he voted ban on it during the suspect
 
Bold School

Bold School

Ok guys. I have another funny great guess. Ogerpon Teal Mask. I mean, that thing essentially comes with a free Choice Scarf without getting locked in. And unlike Booster Energy, you can use it for as many switch ins as you want. You can't even Intimidate that thing with Cockroach-T. Totally broken, right? Plus, there was that one Blimax video where he used it. It has to be the base Ogerpon.
 
ianlazerbeem

ianlazerbeem

Mimikyu Stardust said:
first thing first, adamant moon doesnt exist, i just refuse to believe it. im probably a hater tho.

second thing,

its less of
"But Heatranator, most of these reasonings are based on +1 calcs, that won't be the case."
but more of
"But Heatranator, roaring moon can only get its sweep off once in a game, so even if in theory it has the ability to beat every pokemon that you have mentioned, finding the opportunity to set up and go for a sweep is not easy. even againts pokemon that it should be able to set up on and scare out in theory like you mentioned with great tusk, cinderace or gholdengo, it still have to fear them staying in and crippling it with burns, twave or just straight up killing it."

You talk a lot about stuff "in practice" when your example relies so much on roaring moon having +1 attack, +1 speed, Booster energy, no hazard damage and also tera being available and that its also a 1v1. Thats just never gonna happen in serious games. Landorus-therian loses 1v1 vs roaring moon in theory, but if lando u-turns into another pokemon like kingambit, now the roaring moon is forced to attack, in which the landorus can come back and neuter it even more. If the moon switches out, thats it, its booster is spent, it took a ton of damage and its almost impossible for it to sweep now. For roaring moon to get its full potential off you need to use A LOT of support which in most games is just too much work, so you just stack these sweepers together and take out the opponents one by one.

Take a look at these 2 replays i have.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2063382121
first one is of webs, and upon seeing it i knew that i couldnt use lando-t as my main counter because theres a zamazenta, and that mon can get really dangerous so i opted to keep primarina and kingambit for roaring moon. Now he actually got a safe switch into samurott and set up, but this was a very risky play as samurott can have sacred sword and one shot moon or as the replay shows, encore. After that the roaring moon is neutered and i win late game with this same samurott.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2062641169?p2
in this game, i choked early game because i let my lando died vs iron valiant, and my opponent brought out his roaring moon vs iron crown, but he didnt set up, he killed it. why? because iron crown can focus blast to kill it, chip with tachyon cutter or volt switch out. Terastalizing doesn't solve this issue either cause if he terastalizes into tachyon cutter, he just wasted it. So the safest play was to kill the iron crown and effectively neutering the sweep potential, as later in the game it couldn't even kill a tera ghost gambit with knock off.

punishing roaring moon's set up is much simpler than it sounds.

those are just replays i remembered saving, you can probably find more roaring moon games in the SPL Replays thread,

week 6 win-rate
| 6 | Roaring Moon | 10 | 25.00% | 40.00% |
week 5 win-rate
| 8 | Roaring Moon | 8 | 20.00% | 50.00% |
week 4 win-rate
| 10 | Roaring Moon | 7 | 17.50% | 28.57% |
week 3 win-rate
| 6 | Roaring Moon | 8 | 20.00% | 37.50% |




True but i was just showing how even if you're stubborn and dont want to run defensive mons, you can still beat roaring moon. in OST recently i saw vert using tinkaton as a counter to roaring moon, primarina and iron valiant which was neat.



which part?
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I just want to expand on how great a post this was about the limitations of Roaring Moon. You have only one chance to get roaring moon in and sweep because of the mechanics of booster energy, and you have to do it in such a way where it comes in and then spends a turn setting up without falling into revenge kill range, in theory roaring moon is very scary but on the battlefield conditions have to be very ideal for it to enter a game winning position and a lot of very prominent Pokémon currently are able to easily remove it from that game winning position due to Moon's lack of priority access and highly exploitable natural typing - it is more potent defensively if it exhausts Tera but if done too early this puts the roaring moon user's team in a less favorable position and only is possible if counterplay to its new type such as ice shard users or Kingambit sucker punch for flying has already been picked off, further limiting roaring moon's window to enter game winning positions. I felt a little silly mentioning Dragonite earlier, and I still don't think it's a banworthy Mon, but multiscale and access to priority that beats other priority in extremespeed makes Dragonite significantly more difficult to position against and revenge kill than roaring moon, allows it to enter game winning positions more freely and easily, and with the better base typing, ability to run mixed or special sets, and access to encore, it also has significantly more "tricks up its sleeve" to disrupt the opponent than roaring moon does. I cannot see roaring moon as an issue right now, especially given it's one of the better ogerpon wellspring answers given that it only can lose to 1/3 of the common variants
 
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