verifiably untrue if you look at SPL and recent teams that have peaked ladder. its fair that you dont enjoy the meta though.feels borderline impossible to experiment when all the top tiers are absurdly broken
verifiably untrue if you look at SPL and recent teams that have peaked ladder. its fair that you dont enjoy the meta though.feels borderline impossible to experiment when all the top tiers are absurdly broken
ofc there are creative teams that do peak the ladder, be these are few and far between. Of course, if you scroll through the RMTs you will see lots of creative teams, but of course you will, that's where people post them after all. Even then, despite these teams having 1 or 2 novel choices they still mostly just revolve around the exact same cores, I can understand where you are coming from tho, theres not NO innovation.verifiably untrue if you look at SPL and recent teams that have peaked ladder. its fair that you dont enjoy the meta though.
Quick! what’s a Kyurem switch in? Oops wrong setEnjoyment: 8
Competitivness: 8
Kingambit: 2
Can still reverse sweep in the right circumstances but I think the meta has adapted decently with flame body/encore/physical walls in general, fairyblast can do silly things vs zama and tusk but you at least have to use tera on him unless you go mono dark or without kowtow for the entire game; Tera ghost is prolly the hardest one to beat if oppo plays correctly at least imo.
Ogerpon-W: 2
Damage output can be insane and hella restricting vs stall/fat yet there is some stall topping the ladder every now and then so there has to be some way to stem her (mainly amoonguss), being item locked hurts against hazard stack and 350 is decent speed but nothing outstanding so fast mons can force her out taking hazard dmg next turn/get the revenge kill.
Kyurem: 1
Opinion is the same as it was during last suspect, too item reliant, with common weaknesses, middling speed and is hazard weak, can sweep in the right circumstances but it need a decent amount of support imo, and I haven't seen insane things from it in tourney recently (gotta admit that I haven't seen every spl replay yet so if I have missed some ballsy Kyurem performances I'm sorry).
Zamazenta: 1
Can't fit STAB/crunch/ice fang/heavy slam/stone edge all in the same moveslot so there will always be something missing; generally with a decently bulky ghost on your team you'll be fine.
Raging Bolt: 2
Very high spAtk and good bulk but it's very linear atm, maybe there could be some set with Tera blast or weather ball ice paired with glowking that can push it over the edge but idk tbh.
Gliscor: 2
Can be annoying but it's needed for stall imo.
Tera Blast: 2
Could have voted 3 cuz with the right tb you can entirely flip a match and sweep on the spot especially if oppo has exhausted tera but I really enjoy this metagame in it's entirety and the move can still be deadweight if you have to tera something else to avoid your game go south so have decided to vote 2, wouldn't mind seeing it suspected tho.
I know I'm in the minority but I do enjoy SV a lot rn (top on par with BW) so high enjoyment and low scores on the mons are just a consequence of that. For competitivness I haven't seen strange or undeserved winners on tours so that's the main reason for that score.
Idk if there are dead times for tours soon so maybe we can create a different ladder with TB banned and volc (and obv regieleki) in to have a compromise between who wants kyurem out, who wants TB out, who wants Kyurem in and who wants Volc back, as with TB out and Volc in kyurem should be manageable for who founds it really annoying rn, just an idea tho.
Yapping over, Peace and love.
yeah, i see your point. def not as easy to be diverse or innovate in very meaningful ways as gen 8 let's say. i think maybe you cant expect too much tho, by now the roles that are most relevant in gen 9 are so well defined its kinda hard to break the mold and idk if thats fixable or even if it needs to be fixed compared to most other metagamesofc there are creative teams that do peak the ladder, be these are few and far between. Of course, if you scroll through the RMTs you will see lots of creative teams, but of course you will, that's where people post them after all. Even then, despite these teams having 1 or 2 novel choices they still mostly just revolve around the exact same cores, I can understand where you are coming from tho, theres not NO innovation.
Why should Ting-Lu be looked at?In hindsight I shoud have proposed other Pokémon like Hamurott or Ting Lu, that should maybe be kept in the radar.
second sentence is unnecessary… just vote 5 on Glisc and Kyurem, they’re not gonna qb Gliscor just because you askedI hope I was able to convince the council.
I hate to get on the fear mongering train but a ting lu ban would be CATASTROPHIC. One of the only things holding the meta togetherWhy should Ting-Lu be looked at?
I did vote 5 on both of them. I just added that to be extra clear.second sentence is unnecessary… just vote 5 on Glisc and Kyurem, they’re not gonna qb Gliscor just because you asked
lu also one of the best checks to moth, darkrai, pult, ghold, crown, and moon just to name a few. I haven't even mentioned everything else it can check with teraTing Lu isnt holding the meta together (he is one of the best Raging Bolt check though, which is respectable) and in fact is a mediocre and overrated mon for me personally. There is obviously 0 need to Ban it and due to the Bolt thing a Ban would indeed make the meta worse.
every stall player in existence:Nobody writing in Gholdengo. SAD!
I think one of the biggest problems is threat saturation. This generation has introduced numerous offensive threats that just so happen to check one another on the offensive teams that would otherwise fold to them, which creates a dynamic where those same offensive teams end up getting the riches of being able to deal with one threat that deals with a threat on their team while balance and fat end up with near auto-loss MUs while having decent MUs into both one another and certain forms of offense. Banning one thing doesn't make a difference - we either have to go all the way or go nowhere, as many of the current suspects are piecing the metagame together.Idk about anyone else. I don’t think there’s anything particularly wrong with the meta but I haven’t enjoyed it in a very long time. I know Finch likes to say “oh look Araquanid instead of Ribombee, the meta is always changing” but just a different webs setter seems like the same boring offense/HO that’s has defined this gen. I am skeptical that any Mon will be be banned for the rest of gen 9. Maybe Tera blast will go and that will remove some variance. But the voter base seems to agree “everything is sort of broken if you look at it funny, but also nothing is broken you’re skilless.”
I know you're my biggest fan of all time (as evident by you hahaing every post I make, I know I'm a huge entertainer like that) but I'm unfortunately going to have to break your heart here buddy because you're saying some stuff that just isn't true wrt policy, regardless of your stance on Tera Blast.Banning it does nothing to solves peoples gripes with what causes it to even be a viable moveslot option which is Tera. it wouldn't be banned as per tiering policy as it's clear the move is inherently not broken and every argument attributed towards banning it is a viable reasoning that can be applied to Tera itself. Banning this would be the biggest nothingburger for the meta and opens its own can of worms around adhering to the policy. Nah
I think one of the biggest problems is threat saturation. This generation has introduced numerous offensive threats that just so happen to check one another on the offensive teams that would otherwise fold to them, which creates a dynamic where those same offensive teams end up getting the riches of being able to deal with one threat that deals with a threat on their team while balance and fat end up with near auto-loss MUs while having decent MUs into both one another and certain forms of offense. Banning one thing doesn't make a difference - we either have to go all the way or go nowhere, as many of the current suspects are piecing the metagame together.
the classic BW OU conundrumI don't agree with this completely. Sure, banning 1 mon won't solve the issue, but I believe banning 2-3 could get us to the point where threat saturation is not a big issue anymore.
This comment does a very good job of outlining all of the mons in lower tiers affected by a tera blast ban. Suffice it to say, I do not think banning tera blast will be the end of the world for lower tiers, and it's a good first step to take before examining tera itself.fair enough, tera blast is niche enough on many of those mons that a ban of it won't actually affect them. most of them have other sets that they use, so it's easier to just count the ones that use tera blast a lot of the time. so this time around, let's only count the pokemon that run tera blast 25% or more of the time:
It's cute you think I would be a fan bud but theres a big difference between laughing at and laughing with.I know you're my biggest fan of all time (as evident by you hahaing every post I make, I know I'm a huge entertainer like that) but I'm unfortunately going to have to break your heart here buddy because you're saying some stuff that just isn't true wrt policy, regardless of your stance on Tera Blast.
Tera Blast is not broken, but saying that it isn't is contesting a stance that isn't even being argued. I beg all pro-Tera Blast arguers to stop making this claim because nobody disagrees with you. The argument is that it errs closer toward being uncompetitive/unhealthy, which tiering policy actually also addresses as a valid reason to tier an element. The reason why people make this argument is because it impacts dynamics involving Tera usage, sends a Pokemon's coverage profile into overwhelming territory that is not established by a pre-existing movepool, and introduces a very serious element of matchup fishing. If anybody wants more information on this I've elaborated quite a bit in previous posts as well as my Youtube video if you want something more bite-size.
These reasons can potentially be tethered to Tera, as you claim, but in my opinion it doesn't really at all. There is a very tangible skill around being aware of and maneuvering around the kinds of Tera types your opponent Pokemon may be inclined to use based on their role and team composition. While it's tied to the mechanic the reasons to tier it are pretty distinct from Tera in practice. It also is a super easy element to tier and is the only real compromise between both ends of the Tera spectrum that isn't a policy-disrupting half-measure since there is a shitton of precedent to tier moves, including earlier this generation when we banned Last Respects and Shed Tail.
It not only opens exactly 0 cans of worms but it also does have some merit in terms of improving the tier regardless of how obvious or subtle its impact may be. I can say for sure it would be felt in gameplay sequencing even if it isn't as felt in areas like building.
- This is the most controversial and subjective one and will therefore be used the most sparingly. The Tiering Councils will only use this amidst drastic community outcry and a conviction that the move will noticeably result in the better player winning over the lesser player.
- When trying to argue a particular element's suspect status, please avoid this category unless absolutely necessary. This is a last-ditch, subjective catch-all, and tiering arguments should focus on uncompetitive or broken first. We are coming to a point in the generations where the number of threats is close to overwhelming, so we may touch upon this more often, but please try to focus on uncompetitive and broken first.