It's not as free as it might look since they can simply taunt you in Grimmsnarl's case, so you have to switch in in the turn they use parting shot, possibly giving a free switch to Cyclizar (a fairly common ally of Grim) or another threat that can beat Cinderace. I'm sure it'll have its uses, but I don't think it's that strong
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
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Gonna share some unconventional sets/picks that I've been running as of late on various teams with some success, with a brief blurb about why I've been using them -
Glimmora @ Black Sludge
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spiky Shield
- Sludge Bomb
- Power Gem
- Earth Power
Purely offensive non-SR Glimmora has been a blessing for several of my teams lately. I prefer other rock setters, so I've been running this variant with Spiky Shield + Two STABS and Earth Power for coverage. You're probably asking why this set instead of the lead variant? Three reasons in particular - First, Black Sludge gives Glimmora additional game longevity to reset Toxic Debris's Toxic Spikes if they get cleared and gives Trick mons such as Gholdengo, Grimmsnarl, Iron Valiant, and Meowscarada a nasty surprise that damages them each turn rather than the expected security of Focus Sash they were counting on. Second, Spiky Shield with three attacks allows me to be more flexible with prediction and also chips anything using a contact move which can be game-defining in some cases. Third, not having to worry about setting up Rocks usually means you can get some free damage off of a predicted Taunt coming your way. Its Tera Type is for additional STAB on Earth Power (which I find myself clicking more than its other STAB moves).
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast / Flamethrower
- Super Fang
Noivern is the fastest unboosted Dragon type (barring Dragapult) that you can use in OU (including Cyclizar, who has base 121, while Noivern has base 123). In combination with Infiltrator, it puts pressure on Shed Tail spam by boosting its power with Specs and hitting right through Substitute. STAB Draco Meteor and STAB Hurricane are your main moves of choice. Your coverage option is either Focus Blast, but if you hate the accuracy, you can go with Flamethrower/Heat Wave, which still maims Steel types as well as being able to hit Ghosts that Focus Blast cannot. Super Fang is a phenomenal tech option that allows Noivern to halve the HP of anything that it cannot kill (really useful when you need to sac Noivern and take advantage of its phenomenal speed).
Ceruledge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- Close Combat
- Shadow Claw
- Bitter Blade
One of my favorite Chi-Yu lures at the moment. Flash Fire provides immunity towards one STAB, while Terastylizing into Fighting type provides a Dark type resistance. Flame Charge allows Ceruledge to boost its speed from a lackluster 295 to a respectable 442 in one go, outspeeding numerous scarf users. Fire / Ghost is a phenomenal offensive and defensive typing if you play it right, and having the ability to switch to pure Fighting type works wonders as well.
252 Atk Tera Fighting Ceruledge Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 458-542 (182.4 - 215.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Fighting Ceruledge: 67-79 (23 - 27.1%) -- 53.8% chance to 4HKO
STAB Bitter Blade's recovery is phenomenal as well and helps with Ceruledge's longevity (especially important given its Stealth Rock weakness when in Fire/Ghost base mode).
Baxcalibur @ Expert Belt
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
A unique tech version of Baxcalibur that I've been having a lot of fun with for a few reasons. STAB Icicle Spear is one of those reasons; thanks to Baxcalibur's fantastic base 145 Attack and access to Dragon Dance, Icicle Spear will almost always break Shed Tail subs and result in additional damage putting your opponent in a tight spot where they'll either have to sac a mon or switch into something like Slowbro. Earthquake is necessary coverage, while Iron Head is specifically for luring Iron Valiant (along with having a Ghost Tera type for Fighting immunity), but other options can be used instead.
Bellibolt @ Leftovers
Ability: Electromorphosis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Slack Off
- Chilling Water
- Discharge
I love this guy; I think he has serious potential for, at the very least, a small OU niche. Reliable recovery, a great ability to boost its Electric STAB after a hit, very useful mono-electric typing, and a slow Volt Switch. In addition, I've been using Chilling Water for some predicted switch-ins like Great Tusk / Iron Treads. Don't sleep on it, one of the few Pokemon that can reliably use Chilling Water IMO. Tera Water is a surprise tech that boosts Chilling Water along with giving Earthquake spam neutrality rather than weakness (originally, I had been experimenting with Tera Flying, but that Tera typing makes it Garganacl fodder, and Tera Steel's defensive utility wasn't as useful since both Steel and Electric are weak to Ground).
(To those who talked to me on Showdown, I'm still trying to find viable niches in OU for Dachsbun, Bombirdier, and Klawf. When I find decent success with set variants, I'll talk about them here).
Glimmora @ Black Sludge
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spiky Shield
- Sludge Bomb
- Power Gem
- Earth Power
Purely offensive non-SR Glimmora has been a blessing for several of my teams lately. I prefer other rock setters, so I've been running this variant with Spiky Shield + Two STABS and Earth Power for coverage. You're probably asking why this set instead of the lead variant? Three reasons in particular - First, Black Sludge gives Glimmora additional game longevity to reset Toxic Debris's Toxic Spikes if they get cleared and gives Trick mons such as Gholdengo, Grimmsnarl, Iron Valiant, and Meowscarada a nasty surprise that damages them each turn rather than the expected security of Focus Sash they were counting on. Second, Spiky Shield with three attacks allows me to be more flexible with prediction and also chips anything using a contact move which can be game-defining in some cases. Third, not having to worry about setting up Rocks usually means you can get some free damage off of a predicted Taunt coming your way. Its Tera Type is for additional STAB on Earth Power (which I find myself clicking more than its other STAB moves).
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast / Flamethrower
- Super Fang
Noivern is the fastest unboosted Dragon type (barring Dragapult) that you can use in OU (including Cyclizar, who has base 121, while Noivern has base 123). In combination with Infiltrator, it puts pressure on Shed Tail spam by boosting its power with Specs and hitting right through Substitute. STAB Draco Meteor and STAB Hurricane are your main moves of choice. Your coverage option is either Focus Blast, but if you hate the accuracy, you can go with Flamethrower/Heat Wave, which still maims Steel types as well as being able to hit Ghosts that Focus Blast cannot. Super Fang is a phenomenal tech option that allows Noivern to halve the HP of anything that it cannot kill (really useful when you need to sac Noivern and take advantage of its phenomenal speed).
Ceruledge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flame Charge
- Close Combat
- Shadow Claw
- Bitter Blade
One of my favorite Chi-Yu lures at the moment. Flash Fire provides immunity towards one STAB, while Terastylizing into Fighting type provides a Dark type resistance. Flame Charge allows Ceruledge to boost its speed from a lackluster 295 to a respectable 442 in one go, outspeeding numerous scarf users. Fire / Ghost is a phenomenal offensive and defensive typing if you play it right, and having the ability to switch to pure Fighting type works wonders as well.
252 Atk Tera Fighting Ceruledge Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chi-Yu: 458-542 (182.4 - 215.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Fighting Ceruledge: 67-79 (23 - 27.1%) -- 53.8% chance to 4HKO
STAB Bitter Blade's recovery is phenomenal as well and helps with Ceruledge's longevity (especially important given its Stealth Rock weakness when in Fire/Ghost base mode).
Baxcalibur @ Expert Belt
Ability: Thermal Exchange
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
A unique tech version of Baxcalibur that I've been having a lot of fun with for a few reasons. STAB Icicle Spear is one of those reasons; thanks to Baxcalibur's fantastic base 145 Attack and access to Dragon Dance, Icicle Spear will almost always break Shed Tail subs and result in additional damage putting your opponent in a tight spot where they'll either have to sac a mon or switch into something like Slowbro. Earthquake is necessary coverage, while Iron Head is specifically for luring Iron Valiant (along with having a Ghost Tera type for Fighting immunity), but other options can be used instead.
Bellibolt @ Leftovers
Ability: Electromorphosis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Slack Off
- Chilling Water
- Discharge
I love this guy; I think he has serious potential for, at the very least, a small OU niche. Reliable recovery, a great ability to boost its Electric STAB after a hit, very useful mono-electric typing, and a slow Volt Switch. In addition, I've been using Chilling Water for some predicted switch-ins like Great Tusk / Iron Treads. Don't sleep on it, one of the few Pokemon that can reliably use Chilling Water IMO. Tera Water is a surprise tech that boosts Chilling Water along with giving Earthquake spam neutrality rather than weakness (originally, I had been experimenting with Tera Flying, but that Tera typing makes it Garganacl fodder, and Tera Steel's defensive utility wasn't as useful since both Steel and Electric are weak to Ground).
(To those who talked to me on Showdown, I'm still trying to find viable niches in OU for Dachsbun, Bombirdier, and Klawf. When I find decent success with set variants, I'll talk about them here).
Good point on Parting Shot/Taunt; for some reason, despite facing it constantly, I keep forgetting that because of Spirit Break/Screens spam
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Arissi
Banned deucer.
if you're using Hypixel as a reference i think your point is already null
Excellent point but I'm calling Hypixel bad and therefore my point stands.
Both are supposed to happen. Because Cinderace is single type, Libero doesn't activate on fire type attacks while fire type, and Libero changes your type when you use any move, not just attacks
Without disable it loses to Garganalc, disable allows you to PP stall in the worst scenario, while also lets you to keep the sub so you don't die to sucker punch or ice shard and not only against Garganalc but also against Rotom and Torkoal. Not saying it is the best, but it helped me a lot during my reqs run.
It literally does not lot lose to Gargnacal with (Substitute, Dragon Dance, Shadow Force, and Dragon Darts)
Watch this replay, and I confirm it beats it. You pretty much PP stall it and if you Tera Ghost Phantom Force does quite a large amount of damage.
I was talking about the Iron Defense set, in that case looking for the darts crit (at least you got two chance everytime) is the best and if it is tera fairy and can't touch it at least you only need to pp stall 3 moves to make it struggle, but well, now that I'm seeing more SR + protect than ID it might be worth to try with phantom force.
About Tera, I prefer to use it early in other mons to keep them low for my sweepers but that is more about my play style than anything, I think I never have tera with this Dragapult set.
Happy new year OU
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
Of course that would be the timezone you live in
(In case anyone is wondering whether this is an insult or what it means or implies, I have no clue)
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I’m EST it’s still 11
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
Odd decision to post “Happy New Year” an hour before it. What if it doesn’t happen? I thought we didn’t theorymon here
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Breaking news: alephgalacticus gets permanently banned
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
The Assassination of Alephgalactus by the Coward Finchinator, starring Brad Pitt as me and Finch as himself
alephgalactus
Banned deucer.
OK, now you can say it
Why would great tusk swap into ace its free wisp lol, also great tusk spin turns are very abusable for momentum so you still net a pretty big reward
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I mentioned this earlier, the teams Cinderace with CC would most discourage are Hyper Offensive teams where setting hazards more than one time would cost them momentum, when neutering HO was already going to be where Cinderace's Statline and playstyle specialized with or without the move. The benefits to the playstyle are as much in discouraging the opponent from having hazards go up recklessly as actually removing them from your side, and Cinderace is still a net gain if your team was "just" Rocks while playing against an opponent that does Spike Stacking for example. It discourages going heavy on them without being able to lay them later or control your own side because however many actions or hits go into putting them up, Cinderace always takes 1 turn to push them back over. I don't think anyone logical is suggesting Cinderace controls hazards by itself, but there is utility in Court Change and Ace that can force opponents to slow their roll a bit, which in and of itself might just make managing them through other means easier even if CC itself doesn't get thrown out. Court Change only has to be a viable enough option for consideration to have this potential effect, and WoW has been brought up as another move to exploit switches Cinderace aims to force with High Power Libero moves.
I also think you're downplaying the extent Ace is "inviting" Great Tusk in. If Tusk comes in on CC and the Hazard advantage goes to the Ace side, Tusk is weighing removal of those Hazards against clicking a STAB against whatever Cinderace pivots to rather than definitely picking the latter. And this is assuming Tusk enters on Court Change, as opposed to Ace U-Turning out or Attacking on the threaten-out.
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 144-169 (38.8 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 144-169 (33.1 - 38.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
Tusk is extremely bulky, but considering its ubiquity in the Meta (which have led to comparisons with Lando-T as a glue/soft-blanket check), this isn't a trivial amount of damage to be taking for it either. Hazard Advantage for some Hyper Offensive teams is a make-or-break factor to the point of the Suicide Lead Role still being a thing after so many gens, so for the teams Ace is already meant to match up with, the threat of having to "put up hazards again later" can be enough of a speed bump or roadblock to the match if playing the common "Glimmora/Grimmsnarl into relentless Beatdown momentum".
I think Cinderace's ability to invite Great Tusk in is really good. Its dealing solid chip damage to it w/ Pyro Ball (around 25%) + can absolutely own it with Will-O-Wisp, largely neutralizing its threat level. In general, having a fast Wisp feels like a really nice tool in this meta, crippling so much like Annihilape and what not. Court Change kinda is an odd move though since its at its highest potency when the opponent has the advantage in the hazards / screens game, which isn't some you want them to have tbh. I haven't found it very good vs Glimmora teams since glimmora needs to die first, otherwise it'll just be able to get rid of T-Spikes and continue on its merry way. That being said, I haven't had much issues just running Pyro Ball + U-Turn, though Ceruledge can kinda be annoying if you don't pack an answer to it.
me when its 00:01 of january 1st and Shit-Yu hasnt been inmideatly banned yet
Happy new year everybody, its 2023, the chinese year of the rabbit/bunny, so lets talk about cinderace, idk how the discussion on tera is going, but i was thinking about tera blast and a support typing on the protean/libero mons, because since you can already change your type, you can semi go back to the original state, while gaining defense, it also could serve as a way to bait other mons with coverage and type changes you shouldnt be having already, and then go back to the original typing, what do you all think
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but if you're saying to tera then libero/protean to another type, then that's not possible. Libero/Protean simply doens't activate when you're terastalized
It doesnt activate? damm, would have been funny, anyways, im going back to spam bounce to lure HJK cinderaces
sorry, misspelled
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No longer? Protean has never interacted with Tera before.
Not his fault that he lives in a non-canon time zone
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