Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hello Comrades,
Regarding the recent ban on Annihilape, do you believe that it is overbearing because of Terastallization, or do you believe that it would be balanced in a No Tera environment, either now or after Home comes out. I would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Comrade Khruschev
 
  • Like
Reactions: CPU

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
Hello Comrades,
Regarding the recent ban on Annihilape, do you believe that it is overbearing because of Terastallization, or do you believe that it would be balanced in a No Tera environment, either now or after Home comes out. I would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Comrade Khruschev
I wouldn’t have voted ban if the suspect result was different. I am happy to try it again in a future metagame, too, but right now it was ridiculous.
 
Hello Comrades,
Regarding the recent ban on Annihilape, do you believe that it is overbearing because of Terastallization, or do you believe that it would be balanced in a No Tera environment, either now or after Home comes out. I would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Comrade Khruschev
I think that the ability to tera to switch up its resistances in combination with the bulk up set making it so it's easier to power up Rage Fist is what pushes it over the edge (for me at least). It would be much easier to play around without needing to deal with that.
 

YNM

formerly yNot Mence
is a Tiering Contributor
Hello Comrades,
Regarding the recent ban on Annihilape, do you believe that it is overbearing because of Terastallization, or do you believe that it would be balanced in a No Tera environment, either now or after Home comes out. I would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Comrade Khruschev
No I believe that Rage Fist was fucking broken, regardless of Tera. Sure, Tera made the Ape impossible to kill, but the problem was definitely neither Tera nor its stats, it was the fact that you could not hit it in any way unless you OHKOd it or you'd end up with a mon with a 150 or 200 bp spammable move. Tera made an already broken strategy even stronger, but it didn't breaking anything per se.
By the way, I have no idea why the hell GF would make a move that strong have 16 PP, 8PP would have been way more manageable although still overpowered.
 
I’m confused what the Czar ban has to do with the BP ban, it’s seemed clear to me from the getgo that if/when moves like Shed Tail, Last Respects or Rage Fist gets wider distribution the council intends to re-examine the current bans and potentially change them to ban the moves rather than the Pokémon. As it stands our limited evidence points to these moves being broken only in conjunction with other qualities their abusers possess, so it’s hard to say the moves themselves are intrinsically uncompetitive. This seems distinct from BP because I don’t remember there ever being a point where BP had such limited distribution that it was worth having a conversation about banning one specific Pokémon or even a handful to try to fix the problem, and in fact the biggest argument against BP was pass chains which by definition meant there were multiple abusers in the meta that contributed to the mechanic being broken. In order to make BP competitive you’d have had to ban like 10 Pokémon and would probably still have to institute a complex ban on top of that to prevent BP alongside certain moves or abilities on less outrightly broken Pokemon.

In short, I think saying these moves have set a precedent for BP being re-examined is backwards; these moves are on the same trajectory as BP, just in the earlier stage that BP basically skipped past because it was immediately apparent there was no point trying to just ban a couple primary abusers.
 

YNM

formerly yNot Mence
is a Tiering Contributor
I'm probably gonna say something controversial now but I don't think that Shed Tail is broken at all, Shed Tail + Regen was, that's it.
With any other mon (like Orthworm for instance) you'd be able to pull it off once, MAYBE twice with a berry, and then your HP would fall down making it impossible to use the move again. Even if a mon had recovery you could still hit it while it tries to heal, therefore dropping the HP below 50% again. With Cyclizar that problem did not exist, you just switched in and out again and you could spam Shed Tail for the rest of the game. So I fully support the decision of the Council not to ban the move, considering that only 2 mons get it. And the Baton Pass argument makes absolutely zero sense; if you'd want to ban just the broken BP users you'd end up with over 20 bans, if not more, and the move is also clearly stronger since it has no drawbacks.
 
So the 3 bans I think benefits Chien-Pao a LOT (Chi-Yu ban specifically) and also Garg is now even harder to kill. Ceruledge should drop since its flash fire is more useless, and stuff like Scizor and Breloom who loses to Chi-Yu would be far better. Regarding ape ban IMO it nerfs Grimmsnarl's screens and Garg (to an extent) and now I'm confident H.Zoroark will not be OU when it releases unless ape gets unbanned (which it probably will). Cyclizar ban doesn't affect much but does buff ghost types a bit especially Dragapult
Nah, Flash Fire is still good on edge since it lets it completely stomp Cinderace. Having to deal w/ Weak Armor Def drops is also not fun sometimes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YNM
Unrelated, what Tera Types is everybody running on Garchomp? Because I'm struggling to come up with a great reason to run something other than Fire. The swapping of Ice and Fairy into resists is an obvious benefit, as is the wisp immunity if you need to check Dirge or similar that doesn't have the option to Tera, but the Steel resist is the unheralded icing on the cake. Improving your MUs into Scizor (to force it to eat more chip than it deals) and Gholdengo (so Scarf sets can't just Make it Rain on you as soon as you hit 60%) is really nice. As the last person on the planet running EdgeQuake coverage, it also lets you eat Volc for breakfast. I guess Ghost lets you block Spin, but then you're not getting contact chip on Spinners.

Been running:
:garchomp: Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 116 HP / 140 Atk / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock / Dragon Tail / Fire Blast

140 Atk guarantees the OHKO against uninvested Dengo. I personally prioritize Spikes over Rocks, even if it makes me weird. Too many steel/ground/fighting types around plus not enough Rock-weak `mons who aren't wearing boots (combined with reduced Knock-Off distribution) makes me really prefer the flat 1/8 chip if I only have time to get one layer of hazards up.

Finally: y'all, stop running Ice Spinner on Chien-Pao. Unless terrain and/or covert cloak really start to catch on, the 100% accuracy isn't worth taking Helmet chip *and* losing the flinch chance over the long haul. Just on top of mind because I've had multiple people lead Pao into Garchomp and rage quit when I looked at their team comp and YOLO Tera'd, taking their top offensive threat to Stedge + contact chip on an Ice Spinner. Without the chip, I wouldn't have KO'd, not to mention a timely flinch would have put me in a really bad position, likely forcing me to switch out (a second flinch or a stone edge miss would probably cost me the game) with my Tera blown for the rest of the match. Super specific example, but similar situations pop up all the time.
Was the Serious nature an oversight? Garchomp doesn't sit at a tier where I expect he'll want to not run a Speed boosting nature, be it Jolly or Naive in a mixed set's case. Does Fire Blast fare better against any particular targets for you than Fire-Tera Blast would as a 4th move slash? The only targets that the former seems to hit harder than the latter are PDef Corviknight and Iron Treads, the latter not wanting to switch into you anyway because of Earthquake, and then racking up slightly better damage on Great Tusk as far as something that might switch into you (though still not enough to scare it away/KO it like a lure or anything). Fire Blast is the only reason I see for Garchomp not to run a Jolly nature, and compared to previous gens it feels like it Fire Coverage for has lost several targets.

I'm also iffy on the Tera type adding a SR weakness instead of a resistance to a mon without Boots and running a tank set (i.e. it's expected to take a decent amount of important hits) seems counterintuitive unless you are REALLY on top of hazard control, which things like Gholdengo make tricky here since Garchomp starts stacking some weaknesses with major Hazard Control like Great Tusk (ignoring any potential role conflict). Tera Steel accomplishes the same defensive profile you noticed while maintaining the SR resistance at the expense of WoW immunity, which is good but not very useful on Garchomp since he's rarely going to want to face down the prominent users (Skeledirge is chunked too hard by EQ on the switch while being outsped, Rotom-Wash blanks everything here whether or not it can hit back due to pre-post Tera, leaving Cinderace as a Pokemon that makes contact to discourage weaker attacks/U-Turns).
 
However, since the list of broken passers is probably at least a dozen Pokémon long and likely to only increase with each new experiment, especially since a lot of Pokémon got access to it since the move was originally banned via TM, it's more sensible and easier to just ban the move.
wasn't this the same argument people were using against terastal though?
 
Was the Serious nature an oversight? Garchomp doesn't sit at a tier where I expect he'll want to not run a Speed boosting nature, be it Jolly or Naive in a mixed set's case. Does Fire Blast fare better against any particular targets for you than Fire-Tera Blast would as a 4th move slash? The only targets that the former seems to hit harder than the latter are PDef Corviknight and Iron Treads, the latter not wanting to switch into you anyway because of Earthquake, and then racking up slightly better damage on Great Tusk as far as something that might switch into you (though still not enough to scare it away/KO it like a lure or anything). Fire Blast is the only reason I see for Garchomp not to run a Jolly nature, and compared to previous gens it feels like it Fire Coverage for has lost several targets.

I'm also iffy on the Tera type adding a SR weakness instead of a resistance to a mon without Boots and running a tank set (i.e. it's expected to take a decent amount of important hits) seems counterintuitive unless you are REALLY on top of hazard control, which things like Gholdengo make tricky here since Garchomp starts stacking some weaknesses with major Hazard Control like Great Tusk (ignoring any potential role conflict). Tera Steel accomplishes the same defensive profile you noticed while maintaining the SR resistance at the expense of WoW immunity, which is good but not very useful on Garchomp since he's rarely going to want to face down the prominent users (Skeledirge is chunked too hard by EQ on the switch while being outsped, Rotom-Wash blanks everything here whether or not it can hit back due to pre-post Tera, leaving Cinderace as a Pokemon that makes contact to discourage weaker attacks/U-Turns).
Serious is definitely an oversight, should be Jolly. Imported from Calc instead of showdown and forgot to set it, apparently.

FWIW, I haven't actually run Fire Blast on this set. It's slashed in as an option over Tera Blast mostly because it doesn't *require* you to Tera while benefiting in case you do. I did run a couple of matches with this EV spread on an offensive set running Tera Blast in the last slot and SD over Spikes, and that was pretty ridiculous in the matches where it went off, but the rest of my team missed Spikes/Rocks support enough that I swapped back.

For the hazard setting version, though, Steel definitely looks like an improved option that I somehow hadn't given much consideration -- despite it being one of the go-to "I want to improve my defense" types. I think I had a couple matches where I desperately wished my team had the wisp immunity and never looked back. I'll definitely give it a shot! (though it worse as an emergency Volc check)
 
Last edited:
Nah. Unless Weavile gets Knock Off and Triple Axel back, it’s effectively dead. Besides Fling, Foul Play, and Beat Up, Weavile no longer has any physical STABs stronger than 85.
Honestly, I've found that despite losing those options, there will still be room for Weavile in OU if Chien-Pao leaves. Currently, it's a discount Chien-Pao based on testing I've done, but from discussions I've seen in OU so far, it looks like that eventually might not be an issue. Instead of trying to use inferior Dark-type STAB, I just decided to forgo it altogether.

Weavile @ Protective Pads
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Brick Break
- Icicle Crash​

Weavile acts as a fighting lure here; it baits switches and is usually able to get a free opportunity to set up. It is obviously inferior to and outclassed by Chien-Pao at the moment, but if Chien-Pao does get the boot, then Weavile will be a solid switch-in. Having a STAB Ghost move on Weavile is actually neat situational tech for a few reasons -
  • Fighting doesn't resist Ghost like it does Dark, so your opponent switching to a Fighting type is more difficult with this Weavile variant. In addition, the same can be said with Fairy types.
  • Pokemon that were neutral, resisted, or (in the case of Iron Valiant) 4x resisted Dark STAB are now hit either neutrally or super effectively. This means that Pokemon such as Hatterene can now be hit super effectively by Weavile's new Ghost STAB.
  • Out of all of the 34 Pokemon in OU, Ghost/Fighting/Ice as an attacking core hits 100% of the meta neutrally and is super effective against 17 of said 34 Pokemon. This comes out to a whopping 50% of the Meta being nailed Super Effectively by a Pokemon with 120 base Attack, access to Swords Dance, and base 125 speed.
Weavile being down in RU is, to me, somewhat ridiculous. Weavile is nowhere near as splashable on team composition as it once was, but people are sleeping on it to a very notable degree.
 
Last edited:
Weavile being down in RU is, to me, somewhat ridiculous. Weavile is nowhere near as splashable on team composition as it once was, but people are sleeping on it to a very notable degree.
Weavile is down in RU not so much out of its own demerit, but because OU has Chien Pao and UU as of now has most teams running First Impression from Lokix/Slither Wing as priority, or have some Pelipper+Floatzel rain core; little place for Weavile there meta-wise. Losing Knock Off did hurt it a lot, though.

----

As for the other comment, and note that I'm not proposing anything and asking mostly out of curiosity, has there ever in Smogon's history been talk on banning/discussing Trapping moves as uncompetitive? I've always felt it was awkward that we have banned Shadow Tag/Arena Trap pretty much forever, yet trapping moves are only a rarely seen gimick. Yet when you fall for the gimick in the wrong match-up, you might as well lose the whole battle, not to mention interactions like the infamous Leppa Slowbro from the Endless Clause. Like, not so much a "it's broken" discussion, but more a "it's uncompetitive", like the OHKO moves (bad example, cause that's pure RNG, but I think the points gets across).
 
Hello Comrades,
Regarding the recent ban on Annihilape, do you believe that it is overbearing because of Terastallization, or do you believe that it would be balanced in a No Tera environment, either now or after Home comes out. I would love to hear your thoughts. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Comrade Khruschev
I don’t really know the answer to this one. I honestly think Tera hinders Ape as much as it helps it, given that Ape has to fish a bit with type changes and Tera Garganacl checks it amazingly due to Salt Cure chip and an effective Ghost resistance, along with Gholdengo beating Fairy or non-Tera variants due to speed and Make It Rain/Shadow Ball. I would have preferred an Ape suspect over a Quickban, but ultimately I’m fine with seeing it go. In effect, I don’t think Tera had much affect on how Ape was banned, while Rage Fist probably has to take the number one reason for the ban.

In other news, I’m happy to see Cyclizar and the fish go, since Cyclizar was single-handedly responsible for two pokemon on the radar.
 
I remember reading sm trapping suspect (or was it dug suspect. i forgor) and some people brought trapping moves and, forgive me if I'm wrong about this it's been a while, some argued trapping moves are much less impactful than trapping abilities due to being able to react to them by switching onto your counter if they click sand tomb etc.

Bear in mind this was in context with stuff like sand tomb so I don't remember if mean look was talked about?
 
dugtrio isn't that good either, I don't see smogon unbanning arena trap.
You're leaving out the significant difference between Arena Trap and the move combination described where Arena Trap takes immediate effect when Dugtrio hits the field to rob the opponent of the Switch chance once the advantageous match-up/removal is in place. Block or any trapping move inevitably means the opponent will switch before it goes off, assuming the match-up isn't in their favor and they don't just go to KO you already, which isn't hard since most (good or not) Trapping Move users are very slow for manual trapping compared to Dugtrio's already superior AT.

Most times trapping moves aren't even used for something like an Encore lock, they're used to force progress via the chip damage in cases like Heatran's Magma Storm (which also mostly works because it's strong enough on the attack portion to force the choice between "KO what's out or take chip hits on a switch-in")
 

Karxrida

Eventide (art by @kzhjp)
is a Community Contributor Alumnus

Cryogonal

Stats:

Base StatStat Range
HP:
80
270 - 364​
Attack:
50
94 - 218​
Defense:
50
94 - 218​
Sp. Atk:
95
175 - 317​
Sp. Def:
135
247 - 405​
Speed:
105
193 - 339​

Oh boy, yet another massive post about a super-niche Pokemon in OU from Morkal? What a shock (said no one); I'm depressed, and typing stuff like this gives me something productive (outside of school/work) to do on my eternal quest for more dopamine and serotonin. So in today's brain chemical search, I'd like to talk about Crygonal, one of my all-time favorite Pokemon that has done wonders for my team (now it's even better than before thanks to the trifecta ban of Annihilape, Chi-Yu, and Cyclizar) with multiple unique advantages in Gen 9's meta. I was planning on talking about Cryogonal earlier in Gen 9, but I feel like with three of the biggest hindrances to Cryogonal gone, it's now a much better time to talk about it as it's far less situational than it was previously. Cryogonal is one of the biggest beneficiaries of the Terrastallizing mechanic because it allows it to escape one of its most significant flaws; its pure defensive Ice typing. I'll be going other some general advantages to Cryogonal along with disadvantages and some particular Tera options that I've been experimenting with as of late, so let's talk about the coolest-looking snowflake around!

Disclaimer: Cryogonal might be the cool as ice, but it is still a situational Pokemon that requires a strong understanding of team building, OU playstyles, and moveset trends for prediction. High risk and high reward; use wisely. If you're not going to utilize Cryogonal's unique role compression, stat spread, and tanking/stalling capabilities, it might not be a good fit for your team.

Summarized Advantages of Tera-Cryogonal
  • Removing pure Ice typing without removing the power of its STAB Ice moves is a godsend for Cryogonal, as it has nicely spread stats that heavily benefit from switching types while still keeping the potency of STAB Ice-type offense. In particular, I've found that making its Tera-type Steel or Ghost-type yields the most consistent results (for reasons I'll explain later in this post), while some more niche options have situational utility on Weather teams.
  • Having 80 / 135 Special Bulk is very useful (especially once Terastallized) alongside access to Recover for longevity and Heavy-Duty Boots for immunity to Stealth Rock (although if your goal is to Terastallize early, you can forgo Heavy-Duty Boots and replace them with Leftovers or another helpful item).
  • Role compression; Cryogonal is the only Pokemon with the unique combinations of the ability Levitate and the move Rapid Spin, along with the unique combination of Levitate and Recover (not to mention the ultra-unique combination of all three together). This, along with Cryogonal's limited but useful movepool and stat spread, allows it to occupy roles that other Pokemon in its position wish it could.
  • 105 Speed means that Cryogonal is the second fastest spinner in OU (only being outsped by Iron Treads [which has 106 speed], which only outspeeds Timid Cryogonal if it's running a Jolly or otherwise Speed-boosting nature). Combined with a usable 95 Special Attack and great offensive options alongside the speed-boosting effect of Rapid Spin, Cryogonal sits in a relatively unique and powerful speed tier.
  • Great synergy with common OU team staples (especially Fire-types) that allow the player to patch up some annoying defensive and offensive holes in their team composition.
We'll go into more specifics as we dive into the analysis, so we'll first talk about the two sets that I've had the most consistent results with; Tera Steel and Tera Ghost -
Cryosteel



Cryogonal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Flash Cannon​

Cryogonal's best Tera-type is, unequivocally, Steel type. While it maintains the nasty Fighting-type weakness, it gains a multitude of resistances that are vital for its specific role. In addition, thanks to its access to Levitate, Cryogonal does not have the crippling weakness to Ground-type moves that other Steel types have. You're probably thinking, "but wait, Morkal, if I wanted a bulky Steel type with Levitate, wouldn't I just use the other Pokemon that gets it, Bronzong, who is also physically bulky and doesn't require Terastallizing? Why shouldn't I use another bulky Pokemon to Terastallize with Levitate and STAB Ice coverage, like Rotom-Frost?" There are several notable reasons -
  • Cryogonal is significantly bulkier than both Bronzong and Rotom-Frost when it comes to Special Bulk. Bronzong has 67/116 Special Bulk, while Rotom-Wash has 50/107 Special Bulk. Cryogonal has 80/135 Special Bulk. In addition, Bronzong has a nasty weakness to Dark-type attacks such as Knock Off that Cryogonal does not have to worry about.
  • Cryogonal has access to Recover, meaning it can reliably heal itself. Unfortunately, Bronzong and all Rotom forms have no recovery options outside of Rest.
  • Cryogonal is quite a bit faster than any Rotom form and blazes past Bronzong, meaning that, if played right, Cryogonal will be able to OHKO specific threats that neither of them can reliably touch.
  • Cryogonal's base 95 SpA is more useful outside of Hail compared to Rotom-Frost's 105 SpA because Rotom-Frost only has Blizzard for Ice coverage, while Cryogonal has access to Freeze-Dry and Ice Beam (as well as Blizzard). Even if we were within Hail, Cryogonal has access to the coveted Aurora Veil and is the second fastest user of that move (only behind Frosslass).
  • Role Compression (having a spinner and special tank condensed to one slot is very useful). Rapid Spin for utility/hazard removal complements the specific yet deadly offensive coverage against notable OU threats that Bronzong can't even dream of.
So what does this set do, and why is Tera-Steel the best typing to use? Defensively, Tera-Steel crucially gives Cryogonal key resistances to two former weaknesses, Rock and Steel-type attacks. In addition, it gains valuable resistances to Normal, Flying, Bug, Grass, Psychic, Dragon, and Fairy type attacks while maintaining its original resistance to Ice-type attacks. Steel types weaknesses to Fire and Fighting-type attacks were shared with the Ice type beforehand, and the gained weakness to Ground is almost always irrelevant due to Levitate. Alongside this, Cryogonal gains a crucial Toxic immunity that increases its overall defensive longevity alongside making it a hard wall to most common Clodsire variants (including the common variant of Stealth Rock, Earthquake, Toxic, and Recover) and most Ting-Lu variants (including the common Double Hazard + Whirlwind with Earthquake variant). Cryogonal has little difficulty coming in on one of the most common Gen 9 leads, Glimmora. Once Terastallized, Cryogonal has immunity to Glimmora's STAB Poison attacks and resistance to STAB Power Gem, in addition to having an excellent immunity to its common Earth Power coverage move on offensive variants (alongside a nifty resistance to Energy Ball). Rapid Spin allows any Toxic Spikes that get set up to be cleared while boosting Cryogonal's speed instantly. Let's take a look at some damage calculations to give you an idea of Cryogonal's defensive and utility capabilities with its unique toolset and stats.

Special Defense

252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Jugulis Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 99-117 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 96-114 (31.8 - 37.8%) -- 92% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Glimmora Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 75-89 (24.9 - 29.5%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 84-100 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 190-224 (63.1 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Skeledirge Torch Song vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 146-174 (48.5 - 57.8%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 76-90 (25.2 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Steel Cryogonal: 104-122 (34.5 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Even with a paltry base 50 Defense, Cryogonal can survive more than you think once it Terastallizes with its new Steel typing.

Defense

252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Cryogonal: 85-100 (28.2 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Cryogonal: 127-150 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
76 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Cryogonal: 118-138 (39.2 - 45.8%) -- approx. 3HKO
252+ Atk Grimmsnarl Spirit Break vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Cryogonal: 110-130 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Steel Cryogonal: 114-134 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I want to specify that, when it comes to offenses, Cryogonal is NOT meant to be an overwhelming powerhouse; it is intended to be a pesky and speedy tank that helps teams wear down critical threats over time while keeping your side of the field (along with itself) relatively healthy. Cryogonal has access to a potent offensive combination of STAB Freeze-Dry and Flash Cannon, the latter of which, once Terastallized, is a great STAB move that heavily dents Pokemon such as Grimmsnarl, Glimmora, Hatterene, Iron Valiant, and Tera-Fairy Espathra for Super Effective damage. Let's look at some damage calculations for Freeze-Dry and Flash Cannon.

Freeze-Dry
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 424-504 (100.9 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 222-264 (60 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-Wash: 174-206 (57.2 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 260-308 (51.5 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Amoonguss: 204-240 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- 73.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Toxapex: 132-156 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery (Toxapex losing Scald means that it cannot hit Cryogonal with status, meaning it will be forced to switch).
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 186-218 (57.5 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 134-158 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 1.2% chance to 3HKO (Cryogonal can outstall due to Rapid Spin's high PP and Clodsire's low Recover PP since most Clodsire variants cannot damage Cryogonal once Terastallized at all).
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 234-276 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 52 HP / 0 SpD Quaquaval: 236-278 (72.8 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 116-138 (22.5 - 26.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (Cryogonal forces most Ting-Lu variants to switch or force it out with Whirlwind, allowing for a free Rapid Spin or you can predict and pull off a double switch, giving you additional momentum).
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 306-360 (70.5 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Breloom: 278-330 (106.5 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (only for predicted switch-ins, do not risk staying in on Mach Punch if you can help it).

Flash Cannon
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Glimmora: 254-300 (82.7 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Valiant: 320-378 (110.7 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 206-246 (64.7 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 186-218 (47.2 - 55.3%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 164-194 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Garganacl, once chipped, cannot switch into Flash Cannon. Even if Garganacl switches in at full health, Flash Cannon's chance to lower Special Defense could mean that you have to once again switch it out).
252 SpA Tera Steel Cryogonal Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fairy Espathra: 320-378 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Cryoghost



Cryogonal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Tera Blast
Tera-Ghost Cryogonal would arguably be the best form of Cryogonal if Knock Off wasn't a thing; sadly, it is, but that doesn't mean Cryoghost doesn't have unique advantages. For one [+ two], it now has three immunities (Normal, Fighting, Ground), giving it a unique simultaneous offensive and defensive profile for a Ghost-type Pokemon (being fast, relatively strong, AND naturally specially bulky; something Gholdengo and Skeledirge cannot lay claim to without serious investment). In addition, the combination of Ice and Ghost STAB offense is equally as potent, thanks to STAB Tera Blast. Let's take a look at some damage calculations for Tera Blast and see just what it can do -

Tera Blast (Ghost)

252 SpA Tera Ghost Cryogonal Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hatterene: 206-246 (64.7 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tera Ghost Cryogonal Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 266-314 (83.9 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (High Chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Tera Ghost Cryogonal Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Espathra: 320-378 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (High Chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock)
252 SpA Tera Ghost Cryogonal Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo: 228-270 (72.3 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tera Ghost Cryogonal Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ceruledge: 210-248 (72.1 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tera Ghost Cryogonal Tera Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Skeledirge: 186-218 (45.2 - 53%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO (Guaranteed 2HKO with Stealth Rock)

Defensively, Cryogonal's new Fighting immunity allows it to handle Pokemon such as Breloom and gives it immunity to some key threats (such as the potent STAB combination of Choice-locked Great Tusks' Fighting/Ground type coverage). Other than switching some offensive and defensive roles, Cryoghost is similar in function to Cryosteel.

Cryogonal Partners
As Cryogonal fits into a relatively specific type of team, it's essential to understand what it synergizes well with. So we'll go over Pokemon that I've found to be reliable partners for both the Tera-Steel set and the Tera-Ghost set, along with brief summaries of why they work well together. I won't be going over all of them, just the ones that I've had consistent success pairing Cryogonal with (there are quite a few that pair well with both Cryogonal variants, not just one or the other).

Ceruledge, Dondozo, Garganacl, Great Tusk, Iron Moth, Orthworm, Pelipper, Roaring Moon

Ceruledge

Ceruledge is a great partner for Cryogonal (specifically the Cryosteel variant) because of three key factors - Flash Fire (Fire Immunity + STAB Fire Power Boost), Half Ghost-type (Fighting immunity), and can generally outspeed and handle Pokemon that give Cryosteel trouble. Ceruledge has been getting more attention lately and will likely continue to garner attention with the Chi-Yu ban.

Dondozo

Dondozo is a somewhat divisive Pokemon with surprising set variety, given its relatively limited movepool. Thanks to its pure Water typing, fantastic HP stat, and excellent physical bulk alongside STAB Liquidation and access to Body Press, Dondozo can handle several notable switch-ins for the Cryosteel variant quite comfortably if you play it right.

Garganacl

I don't need to tell you how much of a monster this thing is - it's rockin' knockin' salt curin' body pressin' self-healin' keyboard breakin' Garganacl, an absolute unit of a Pokemon that is already considered suspect-worthy by some people (even before the trifecta ban of Annihilape, Chi-Yu, and Cyclizar). It's bulky as hell, strong as hell, and ultimately sits on a good portion of the OU meta right now.

Great Tusk

Ground/Fighting is a fantastic STAB combination, and thus Great Tusk is excellent at picking off Pokemon that give both variants of Cryogonal trouble. Great Tusk is physically tanky, has high attack, great moves, usable speed, and can also pair with Cryogonal for a double Rapid Spin synergy that works quite well in the long game (along with patching its speed issues).

Iron Moth

Iron Moth is nuts; if they had actually given this thing Quiver Dance, it would have likely been quick-banned to Ubers alongside Flutter Mane. Fire/Poison typing is potent offensively and, in some cases, defensively. Iron Moth can often get an opportunity to set up an Agility or fire off a powerful attack after it switches in.

Orthworm

"Look at those beady little eyes; he's got that thousand-yard stare!"
- Dallas Wanamaker, Ratchet: Deadlocked​

A great physically defensive pure-Steel type that can handle several threats that plague both variants of Cryogonal. In addition, if you're able to pass Shed Tail to Cryogonal, it can provide a much-needed opportunity for Cryogonal to dent something hard with one of its various STAB attacks.

Pelipper


I've always loved this guy, even before Gen 7 bestowed Drizzle upon it, dooming one of my other favorite Pokemon (
) to relative obscurity once again. Pelipper setting rain not only weakens the Fire-type onslaught that plagues Cryosteel but can be an excellent switch-in for various Physical threats (especially Physical Fire and Fighting-types) that Cryosteel does not want to tangle with.

Roaring Moon


This thing scares me, but it's also a fantastic partner for both the Cryoghost and Cryosteel variants. Dragon/Dark is a tremendous offensive and defensive combination that can use the opportunity to switch in and set up. Utilizing this combination in the late game puts considerable pressure on your opponent, especially with a chipped or status'd team.

Conclusion

Cryogonal is one of those Pokemon I think has always been egregiously underestimated by the player base due to some of its notable detracting qualities. However, with the advent of the recent trifecta banning of three critical threats that gave it some serious issues, I can confidently recommend Cryogonal. Thanks to Cryogonal's combination of an excellent ability in Levitate, Terastallization fixing its Defensive typing, a small but viciously specific movepool, and solid overall stats, Cryogonal has a specific but strong niche in OU. Thanks for reading; I hope you're having as much fun with the Gen 9 OU meta as I currently am!

This was my 420th post on the forum; nice.
Edit #1: Grammatical/Spelling Issues + A Bonehead Moveset Blunder Fixed (Thanks to The2009Zapdos for catching it!)
I forgot to talk about this earlier, but cases like Cyrogonal here help illustrate why I think keeping Tera is going to be a net positive for the game going forward. While Dynamax largely benefited sweepers that were already good, a Pokémon with unique attributes and its own role to fill but held back by its typing has been able to shine in OU for the first time thanks to the nuances of Tera.

Who knows what other Pokémon are waiting to be rediscovered? I hope to see more diamonds in the rough like Cyro in the future.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top