Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[SpritePony]

Orthworm OU by usage kek

Just goes to show that Shed Tail might've been the issue the whole time, lol. Mostly joking here, as I almost never see Orth and when I do, I punish it super hard.

Tauros Fire is dropping due to Water one being a thing (and better in many match-ups) and Species Clause existing. If one uses one Tauros,he can't use the other on the same team, so both being viable sabotage the use of each other. If Lando-I isn't banned the first day Home drops, Lando-T will take some time to claim the number 1 spot from Tusk or Gholdengo for the very same reason.

Yeah, that makes sense. Alt formes and such like that make demand for team slots that much more difficult. I would've thought that maybe Taur-Fire would've been the better offensive mon over Taur-Water. Or maybe better tank... I dunno, lol.

 

[viivian]

Interesting. What would Houndstone bring to the table, assuming Last Respects was banned and it went free/

it's still a nice ghost cleaner with choice band and maybe tera blast ghost to maintain STAB. it's definitely not going to be outright unhealthy without last respects but it can still break weakened teams with ease and can even punch some holes in early/mid-game. here's some damage calcs with tera blast against some fat mons, with stealth rock up:

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Houndstone Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 136-160 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Houndstone Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 170-200 (42.5 - 50%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Houndstone Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dondozo: 214-252 (42.4 - 50%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

of course, it's unfortunately flawed in this regard, since it either has to burn tera to use its ghost STAB or use phantom force instead, and its attack stat, while good, isn't anything to write home about. regardless, it's definitely something worth considering for sand, even without last respects

 

[SpritePony]

it's still a nice ghost cleaner with choice band and maybe tera blast ghost to maintain STAB. it's definitely not going to be outright unhealthy without last respects but it can still break weakened teams with ease and can even punch some holes in early/mid-game. here's some damage calcs with tera blast against some fat mons, with stealth rock up:

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Houndstone Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Toxapex: 136-160 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Houndstone Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 170-200 (42.5 - 50%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
• 252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Ghost Houndstone Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dondozo: 214-252 (42.4 - 50%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

of course, it's unfortunately flawed in this regard, since it either has to burn tera to use its ghost STAB or use phantom force instead, and its attack stat, while good, isn't anything to write home about. regardless, it's definitely something worth considering for sand, even without last respects

Yeah, I was thinking that Phantom Force would've been the main STAB or Tera Blast... Just like with non-mix, non-specialy offensive Dragapult. Those numbers are surprisingly impressive, I kind of want to try it now lol. But I doubt I could build around it properly lmao.

 

[1LDK]

Okay guys, time to make some intrusive and rhetorical questions about this new shape of the metagame we found ourselves in

1) How do you guys feel about both Orthworm and Espatra joining OU by usage, do you think the cyclizar/worm/shed tail debacle needs a revisit?

2) How do you feel about weather in OU, Pelipper rose without Floatzel, Great Tusk is the single most used Pokémon in the metagame yet Torkoal, a perfect partner for it, dropped, hail and sand are also almost none existent in the tier

3) Iron Hands dropped into UU, you guys think this was because he is bad or because of its "underrated" status

4)

Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Great Tusk | 53.024% |
| 2 | Gholdengo | 43.681% |
| 3 | Chien-Pao | 32.768% |
| 4 | Dragonite | 21.332% |
| 5 | Iron Valiant | 21.020% |
| 6 | Garganacl | 20.876% |
| 7 | Kingambit | 18.666% |
| 8 | Rotom-Wash | 18.627% |
| 9 | Ting-Lu | 17.182% |
| 10 | Corviknight | 17.042% |


These here are the top 10 mons, make opinions, that is an order

 

[SpritePony]

Okay guys, time to make some intrusive and rhetorical questions about this new shape of the metagame we found ourselves in

1) How do you guys feel about both Orthworm and Espatra joining OU by usage, do you think the cyclizar/worm/shed tail debacle needs a revisit?

2) How do you feel about weather in OU, Pelipper rose without Floatzel, Great Tusk is the single most used Pokémon in the metagame yet Torkoal, a perfect partner for it, dropped, hail and sand are also almost none existent in the tier

3) Iron Hands dropped into UU, you guys think this was because he is bad or because of its "underrated" status

4)

Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Great Tusk | 53.024% |
| 2 | Gholdengo | 43.681% |
| 3 | Chien-Pao | 32.768% |
| 4 | Dragonite | 21.332% |
| 5 | Iron Valiant | 21.020% |
| 6 | Garganacl | 20.876% |
| 7 | Kingambit | 18.666% |
| 8 | Rotom-Wash | 18.627% |
| 9 | Ting-Lu | 17.182% |
| 10 | Corviknight | 17.042% |


These here are the top 10 mons, make opinions, that is an order

1. Espathra going to OU doesn't surprise me, even if it's a bit of a matchup phishing Pokemon. Orth coming to OU is a bit surprising, but as I said, I'm not sure if it's because of Shed Tail shenanigans, or if it is because it's just generally popular as a pivot/tank. Let's see where things go with it, but I think it MIGHT be Shed Tail itself.
2. I already posted my opinions on weather; Rain feels a little weird right now, Sand feels bad, Sun is only ""good"" because of Protosynthesis users, and Snow is well... Snow. It doesn't do much. You have two niches for it; Screens and Slush Rush. Both have their problems and have better Pokemon that use and abuse it.
3. Honestly, I find the Pokemon to be more of a UU mon. It isn't bad in the common sense, but just... Lacking for OU.
4. I'm not surprised Tusk is top of the tier, honestly. Ground/Fighting is really good coverage, having Knock/Spin/Spinner/Slide is all really good tools for it... Then you factor in the various things you can do with it; AV, Band, SR + Spin tank... It does a lot really, really well. But seeing it at 53% is wild.

 

[zyzzyva]

Gren won't be allowed to drop to UU; last month Cinder got added on like the 29th and wasn't allowed to go to UU for that reason, even though it wasn't OU by usage.

As for which Pokemon may fall out of OU, I'd say Torkoal could fall with Sun falling off since Chi-Yu's ban. Azu, Quaquaval, Ceruledge, Iron Hands, and Pawmot would be the other candidates for dropping to UU, though I don't expect all of them will.

On the other hand, I don't think we'll see too many Pokemon rise to OU. Pelipper was very close last month and could do it this time, Orthworm has an outside shot since Cyclizar got banned, and maybe Espathra has finally gotten the popularity it needs to rise out of UUBL. Also Slowking is an OU-worthy Pokemon but its usage was very low in December and I doubt it has risen enough to reach OU this month. Outside of those four, there's nothing I would expect to rise.

Hey hey, pretty on-point predictions this time around! Peli, Orthworm, and Espathra did indeed all rise to OU and nothing else did. Meanwhile Torkoal, Iron Hands, and Pawmot all did drop, and Quaquaval and Ceruledge weren't far off. In fact, Ceruledge was a mere 0.006%(!) away from dropping to UU. If you used Ceruledge in high elo OU this month, you were integral in keeping it in the OU tier. Well done. I'm surprised Azu's usage is as high as it is, but I guess people were desperate for a Chi-Yu answer and still are desperate for a Chien-Pao answer. Once Pao gets the boot, I don't think Azu will stick around in OU.

Additionally, Scizor and Grimmsnarl were quite close to dropping out of OU. I can't say either one is too surprising. While Scizor can run through unprepared offensive teams very quickly and brutally with its CB Tera Steel Bullet Punches, the tier is full of bulky resists like Gholdengo, Water Garg, Skeledirge, Rotom-W, Corvi, Dondozo, and Toxapex which make its life difficult. Great Tusk's omnipresence doesn't help either, as it switches into Scizor quite comfortably if it's physically defensive.

As for Grimm, HO teams have limited support slots, and if you're already running Orthworm (b/c Shed Tail is just that good) and Hatterene/terrain setter/suicide Spikes lead, it's difficult to find space and tempo for Grimm. I've also seen teams opt for Gholdengo as a Screens setter instead of Grimm, which makes sense as it offers anti-Hazard Removal, decent offensive and defensive presence, and even some nice utility with Memento.

And finally, Armarouge's usage has risen quite a bit and it was actually fairly close to making it to OU this month. Indeedee's usage isn't too far behind, either, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Psyterrain teams continue to gain popularity and perhaps bring one of both of these Pokemon into OU.

 

[awyp]

Okay guys, time to make some intrusive and rhetorical questions about this new shape of the metagame we found ourselves in

1) How do you guys feel about both Orthworm and Espatra joining OU by usage, do you think the cyclizar/worm/shed tail debacle needs a revisit?

2) How do you feel about weather in OU, Pelipper rose without Floatzel, Great Tusk is the single most used Pokémon in the metagame yet Torkoal, a perfect partner for it, dropped, hail and sand are also almost none existent in the tier

3) Iron Hands dropped into UU, you guys think this was because he is bad or because of its "underrated" status

4)

Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Great Tusk | 53.024% |
| 2 | Gholdengo | 43.681% |
| 3 | Chien-Pao | 32.768% |
| 4 | Dragonite | 21.332% |
| 5 | Iron Valiant | 21.020% |
| 6 | Garganacl | 20.876% |
| 7 | Kingambit | 18.666% |
| 8 | Rotom-Wash | 18.627% |
| 9 | Ting-Lu | 17.182% |
| 10 | Corviknight | 17.042% |


These here are the top 10 mons, make opinions, that is an order

Tusk is officially is part of every 1/2 team is insane to me, shoutout the the user a couple of weeks ago stating that Iron Treads is better than Tusk, I understand that there's there's certain things both do well over the other but lets be real, usage wise people are going with Tusk, where Tread is nowhere to be found near the top 10.

 

[SpritePony]

Just got to play a few games with a Chien-Pao on a team. Mind you, this team was a bit haphazardly put together but...

Honestly, I feel like, for me, Chien-Pao is one of those Pokemon where playing against it is annoying since you have to play around how powerful it generally is... But when you play with it, it feels lackluster or even kind bad. Pretty much all of the games I actually DID win was NOT because of Chien-Pao, but rather because the rest of the team carried it. There were so many times where I looked at it and went "Damn, I wish you were something else right about now."

 

[1LDK]

Okay guys, time to make some intrusive and rhetorical questions about this new shape of the metagame we found ourselves in

1) How do you guys feel about both Orthworm and Espatra joining OU by usage, do you think the cyclizar/worm/shed tail debacle needs a revisit?

2) How do you feel about weather in OU, Pelipper rose without Floatzel, Great Tusk is the single most used Pokémon in the metagame yet Torkoal, a perfect partner for it, dropped, hail and sand are also almost none existent in the tier

3) Iron Hands dropped into UU, you guys think this was because he is bad or because of its "underrated" status

4)

Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Great Tusk | 53.024% |
| 2 | Gholdengo | 43.681% |
| 3 | Chien-Pao | 32.768% |
| 4 | Dragonite | 21.332% |
| 5 | Iron Valiant | 21.020% |
| 6 | Garganacl | 20.876% |
| 7 | Kingambit | 18.666% |
| 8 | Rotom-Wash | 18.627% |
| 9 | Ting-Lu | 17.182% |
| 10 | Corviknight | 17.042% |


These here are the top 10 mons, make opinions, that is an order

Tusk is officially is part of every 1/2 team is insane to me, shoutout the the user a couple of weeks ago stating that Iron Treads is better than Tusk, I understand that there's there's certain things both do well over the other but lets be real, usage wise people are going with Tusk, where Tread is nowhere to be found near the top 10.

Here is the full list btw, honestly, shoutouts to the graphics department, and to Ceruledge for becoming the new maushold

 

[Ctann]

View attachment 488627


Here is the full list btw, honestly, shoutouts to the graphics department, and to Ceruledge for becoming the new maushold

great tusk on every other team is a clear indication of how good it is in the current meta, and why it also feels like you can’t make a great team without at least 3-4 high viability Pokémon in it.

diversity of options has taken a hit since last gen, although Tera has masked this a little and kept the meta fun.

seriously, I’d challenge someone to make a high performance team with only 1x Pokémon that is ranked at A or higher in the VR. It will be very impressive to see that pulled off.

 

[1LDK]

There's a ton of people who are starting to hate great tusk because he is every single team ever, which is fair, but honestly, I would rather see tusk in every game than lando, because lando looks like Garfield and tusk has some actual design effort, + no u turn on tusk makes it way less annoying, at this point im just waiting for HOME to roll around, so I can start spamming on the forums and ladder, and to also use CM again because god mag is gonna be so busted this gen

 

[Novax]

Okay guys, time to make some intrusive and rhetorical questions about this new shape of the metagame we found ourselves in

1) How do you guys feel about both Orthworm and Espatra joining OU by usage, do you think the cyclizar/worm/shed tail debacle needs a revisit?

2) How do you feel about weather in OU, Pelipper rose without Floatzel, Great Tusk is the single most used Pokémon in the metagame yet Torkoal, a perfect partner for it, dropped, hail and sand are also almost none existent in the tier

3) Iron Hands dropped into UU, you guys think this was because he is bad or because of its "underrated" status

4)

Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Great Tusk | 53.024% |
| 2 | Gholdengo | 43.681% |
| 3 | Chien-Pao | 32.768% |
| 4 | Dragonite | 21.332% |
| 5 | Iron Valiant | 21.020% |
| 6 | Garganacl | 20.876% |
| 7 | Kingambit | 18.666% |
| 8 | Rotom-Wash | 18.627% |
| 9 | Ting-Lu | 17.182% |
| 10 | Corviknight | 17.042% |


These here are the top 10 mons, make opinions, that is an order

Tusk usage rising isnt suprising . It fiils in the boots of Lando being a defensive ground type providing hazard removal and even as a hazard setter in rare cases . Typically it runs a defensively oriented sets with leftovers or av and works as a really good physical walls , checking the likes of kingabmit and cinderace. Torkoal dropped down because mostly tusk sets are defensively oriented and yes , sun gives defense boost but , it sometimes isnt really the best usage of spots for just a temporary def boost . Also torkoal lost the key abusers - Chi-yu and fluttermane which is another reason . Orthoworm rised in usage since well being slower allows you to keep ur sub up , earth eather provides a nice immunity , and they even run tera ghost for the fighting immunity ( now that i think of it , slower shed tail seems better - if you can set it up that is ) . Espathra rising was expected as the metagame needed for mons for the HO teams , and even the BO teams . Also tusk rising in usage might be a reason for the drop of Iron hands

Weather well , tyranitar lost the whole reason it was being used - Houndstone and chi-yu check . Ice has only 2 reliable setters - Slowking and slowbro , and not many abusers as such except maybe cetitan . yea ice types do get the def boost , but the only ice type seeing pretty good usage is chien-pao

 

[Dusk Mage Necrozma]

I find myself using one of the Donphans on every team without Corv just because hazard removal is so rare. What else am I supposed to use, Quaquaval? That 50% usage on Great Tusk probably speaks more to the strength of hazards and hazard removal than the mon itself, given there’s only like 3 good mons for Rapid Spin/Defog.

 

[luckie]

Okay guys, time to make some intrusive and rhetorical questions about this new shape of the metagame we found ourselves in

1) How do you guys feel about both Orthworm and Espatra joining OU by usage, do you think the cyclizar/worm/shed tail debacle needs a revisit?

2) How do you feel about weather in OU, Pelipper rose without Floatzel, Great Tusk is the single most used Pokémon in the metagame yet Torkoal, a perfect partner for it, dropped, hail and sand are also almost none existent in the tier

3) Iron Hands dropped into UU, you guys think this was because he is bad or because of its "underrated" status

4)

Combined usage for OU (1695 stats)
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Percent |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ------- +
| 1 | Great Tusk | 53.024% |
| 2 | Gholdengo | 43.681% |
| 3 | Chien-Pao | 32.768% |
| 4 | Dragonite | 21.332% |
| 5 | Iron Valiant | 21.020% |
| 6 | Garganacl | 20.876% |
| 7 | Kingambit | 18.666% |
| 8 | Rotom-Wash | 18.627% |
| 9 | Ting-Lu | 17.182% |
| 10 | Corviknight | 17.042% |


These here are the top 10 mons, make opinions, that is an order

This is my first time posting on any Smogon Forum ever, so I hope you all will bear with me in case I make any weird mistakes o7

1. Orthworm joining OU honestly is a testament to how valuable Shed Tail is if people are going to great lengths by using Orthworm, a mon that would otherwise likely be passed up. As for Espathra, it's not surprising it rose, it can cheese and it cheeses well or falls flat. I was personally of the opinion that Shed Tail absolutely needed to go, though I wouldn't be opposed to a suspect test down the line because of how split it felt, though it could just be the vocal minority that didn't want it gone being so present that I think that.

2. I haven't used weather at all this generation, nor do I plan to. I've never been a huge fan of the archetype, though Hail last generation interested me. As for Great Tusk, it feels like a such a complete package that can run a ton of EV spreads and a variety of moves/sets that it doesn't feel tied to Torkoal for me. It can stand on it's own feet well and make an identity for itself without Torkoal, which technically works vice versa, though not in nearly the same ballpark, evident of it falling out of OU. Sand being nonexistent isn't a shocker considering it's best abusers aren't here in the meta at the moment, and honestly, I don't know enough about snow to make a valid judgement on it.

3. Honestly, I never felt like Iron Hands matches up well against the bigger threats when I used it, but maybe that's just my inadequacy. I don't think it's terrible at all, but I don't get the small hype behind it, with some comparing it to juggernauts like Melmetal (????? Still confuses me, not gonna lie. If someone has an explanation for it, it would be greatly appreciated.)

4. Top 10 seems about right and what I would've expected, though it feels weird not seeing Pult there, but maybe that's just because I've seen it in Top 10 usage for so long lmaooo

I will say, this usage stat really shows how quickly the meta has grown since even a month ago compared to the HO spam I've dealt with, and while I'm glad that phase is done, it makes me wonder what this Top 10 would've looked like without Tera. I won't open that closed can of worms, but it's interesting to see the demon rock (Garg) so high up and potentially ("potentially" is me coping) being banworthy because of the results of the test. We make the bed that we'll sleep on I suppose, and I've moved past the results of the suspect test. Just gotta deal with the aftermath and move forward I suppose.

 

[Mega Breloom]

I find myself using one of the Donphans on every team without Corv just because hazard removal is so rare. What else am I supposed to use, Quaquaval? That 50% usage on Great Tusk probably speaks more to the strength of hazards and hazard removal than the mon itself, given there’s only like 3 good mons for Rapid Spin/Defog.

Tusk is so good and checks most of the physical mons in tier, it is basically gen 9 Lando.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Tusk is so good and checks most of the physical mons in tier, it is basically gen 9 Lando.

until actual lando drops, at which point tusk's usage gets severely cut into because running them both on a team is not a great idea. their strengths complement each other well, but they share very similar weaknesses (very weak to water and ice especially because water/ice moves tend to be special, lackluster special bulk in general, kinda awkward speed tiers, no recovery). gholdengo, on the other hand, has no competition. this might actually be the first time in a decade where lando-t isn't the most used mon in the tier

 

[Turtlek]

until actual lando drops, at which point tusk's usage gets severely cut into because running them both on a team is not a great idea. their strengths complement each other well, but they share very similar weaknesses (very weak to water and ice especially because water/ice moves tend to be special, lackluster special bulk in general, kinda awkward speed tiers, no recovery). gholdengo, on the other hand, has no competition. this might actually be the first time in a decade where lando-t isn't the most used mon in the tier

lando is apparently losing defog, so tusk will definitely have a niche

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

lando is apparently losing defog, so tusk will definitely have a niche

lando's losing knock off as well, and tusk will have far more than a niche. tusk has other things that lando doesn't, like powerful fighting stab, the ability to boost its speed without a scarf, the ability to boost its attack on switch-in, bulk up, ice coverage, and an excellent synergy with sun teams. lando, meanwhile, has a very important ground/spikes immunity and fighting resist, u-turn (and, though a niche option, explosion) for momentum grabbing, a more comfortable time running rocky helmet, and some sets might run the new sand burn move thing (though i personally don't buy it)

 

[Mega Breloom]

until actual lando drops, at which point tusk's usage gets severely cut into because running them both on a team is not a great idea. their strengths complement each other well, but they share very similar weaknesses (very weak to water and ice especially because water/ice moves tend to be special, lackluster special bulk in general, kinda awkward speed tiers, no recovery). gholdengo, on the other hand, has no competition. this might actually be the first time in a decade where lando-t isn't the most used mon in the tier

Actually, I think that Tusk is better than Lando as a defensive/set up sweeper. Outside scarf/Suicide lead, I don't see why somebody would Lando over Tusk.

 

[brokenmotor]

Actually, I think that Tusk is better than Lando as a defensive/set up sweeper. Outside scarf/Suicide lead, I don't see why somebody would Lando over Tusk.

Obviously it's all speculation at this point, but Lando pivots better with U-turn, has arguably better defensive typing, has better special bulk, and has greater set diversity (sub sd, explosion lead and scarfer like you mentioned) to name a few reasons.

 

[ausma]

let's keep theorymonning out of the thread plz!!! we'll know how good lando is and how it compares to tusk once it arrives via home, but for now we can't say for sure.

 

[pika pal]

Iron Treads is really hoping for the game to add some Fairy or Flying attackers back. His typing would be good if his resists actually mattered over Tusk's neutralities and higher natural power (big STAB moves and the higher uninvested ATK go a long way for him)

 

[1LDK]

Theorymonning is like one of the best things we can do while waiting for the chien pao ban (aside from getting reqs, but god I'm salty)
To change topic, i wanna show something I have been working on

Iron Valiant @ Expert Belt
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Electric/Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Spirit Break
- Knock Off
- Thunder Punch/Shadow Sneak

I tried to use choice band valiant, but the set is surprisingly bad, I mean, not for a lack of power, but unlike specs, once you killed something, you have to switch out, whereas specs you can just magically keep killing stuff you know?. So I have been using Expert Belt instead, which, although sometimes you wish you were faster, when you can have something SE in front of you, god is so good, because you will always get 2 for 1 because the opponent is not really expecting it, and valiant's coverage is insanely good, so you can always have options to customize, yet another set that is better than the Booster Energy Red Bullshit you guys running (bro I'm still not sold)

Iron Treads is really hoping for the game to add some Fairy or Flying attackers back. His typing would be good if his resists actually mattered over Tusk's neutralities and higher natural power (big STAB moves and the higher uninvested ATK go a long way for him)

When HOME rolls around, TornadUS, thundurUS, enamorUS, and the hisuin party will come in, and, while these mons can threaten treads, he is gonna have way more use with sus birds around

 

[Gary]

There's a ton of people who are starting to hate great tusk because he is every single team ever, which is fair, but honestly, I would rather see tusk in every game than lando, because lando looks like Garfield and tusk has some actual design effort, + no u turn on tusk makes it way less annoying, at this point im just waiting for HOME to roll around, so I can start spamming on the forums and ladder, and to also use CM again because god mag is gonna be so busted this gen

A lot of lesser experienced players tend to overlook the fact that the existence of Pokémon like Landorus-T in past gens and Great Tusk actually allow you to get away with a lot more in the builder. These Pokémon have extremely high usage because they offer unmatched role compression, which means by using them on most teams you don't have to take up more team slots to fill roles that Landorus or Great Tusk would already be able to do on their own. Me personally, I'd much rather see Great Tusk on every single team instead of seeing the same group of Pokémon that people would be forced into using in order to make up for not having a Pokémon that can accomplish so much with one slot. People constantly parroted for a Lando-T ban in Gen 7, but the idea of building without Lando in a meta where there were like 25+ Pokemon in A rank at one point sounds like depression.

This is sometimes why striving for "perfect balance" (where there's no single dominating Pokémon) can actually be worse for long-term meta development. One of my favorite examples of this was actually BW RU Druddigon, who was also pretty controversial for its high usage and centralizing nature, but it did so much in one slot the meta seemed to be developing constantly. That is, until the pink fish started seeing more usage, but fuck that guy tbh.

 

[Solar Power]

Iron Treads is really hoping for the game to add some Fairy or Flying attackers back. His typing would be good if his resists actually mattered over Tusk's neutralities and higher natural power (big STAB moves and the higher uninvested ATK go a long way for him)

I've been trying it out Scarfed. It's decent, but doesn't help the team as much as I'd like because it always has to switch out after spinning. So it doesn't have the role compression you'd want from an offensive spinner like Great Tusk has.

Incidentally, one of the most consistent uses I've found for it is taking out Chien-Pao, specifically banded Chien-Pao.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Iron Treads: 246-291 (76.3 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Iron Treads: 232-274 (72 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and in return

252 Atk Iron Treads Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chien-Pao: 284-336 (94.3 - 111.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO with any type of hazards up)

I wouldn't lie to anyone and call this a genuine counter, but I've taken out enough Chien-Pao's in the last couple days by switching into Icicle Crashes and OHKO'ing on the next turn that I think it's worth mentioning. I wouldn't recommend switching into predicted Crunches as aggressively as predicted Icicle Crashes because there's a good chance that you get OHKO'd if it goes tera Dark. I also wouldn't play as aggressively on HDB or Life Orb'd variants because you only have a 62.5% chance to OHKO without hazard chip damage vs 100% chance to OHKO if it's taken any chip damage. Also, Sucker Punch/Ice Shard can get you if they're not banded and suspect you're scarfed.

Otherwise, it's an ok revenge killer, but it just doesn't have good matchups against a lot of the meta and is quite prediction reliant. Also gets instantly shut down by Great Tusk and Rotom-W.