Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

SetsuSetsuna · Apr 1, 2023

So for everyone keeping up with the Kingambit, Skeledirge, Azumarill speed wars...

It seems like the time has finally come where all 3 of these Pokemon are done crippling each other with 192 Spe Kingambit, 36 Spe Skeledirge, 172 Spe Azumarill and so on. Kingambit's most popular sets are now max Speed, particularly in 1825 where Jolly is also popular; Jolly also lets you get the jump on 0 Spe Rotom-W or Great Tusk for example. Skeledirge is slowly going faster, with 128 Spe EVs allowing it to outspeed Adamant Kingambit and Azumarill; these is a lot of investment though so we will see if this trend continues. Azumarill also seems to be picking up on max Speed, and while Jolly is definetely a thing, its still not up there in the main sets just yet.

Other interesting things about these Pokemon and the speed benchmarks

Kingambit has been running a lot of Low Kick, Azumarill Encore, and Skeledirge Tera Blast.
Kingambit has been opting for Black Glasses a lot lately, notably being its most used item in 1825.
Some defensive Rotom-W have been running some more speed, such as 16 EVs or 56 EVs.

Ranga226 · Apr 1, 2023

what do you think would be the most effective way to use an offensive tyranitar set in the current meta. Like what moves/teammates to make it somewhat functional. I assume dragon dance is generally off the table without a lot of para support due to its low base speed.

CheesyBrie · Apr 1, 2023

Mega Breloom said:
Now to not just be an one liner, how do you feel about Gholdengo's usage falling that much? Yes, it is still used a lot but it looks like the meta is just too prepared for him. Despite its great typing, I believe that only Scream Tail and Corviknight can't touch it, the rest of the tier have at least a move to annoy Gholdengo. It has recover to beat 100% some mons, but that is where its problem starts IMO. It needs to run different sets to beat different things, but unlike Volc who runs a specific set to beat a couple of specific checks, Gholdengo loses to a bunch of different mons depending on the sets and tera. Gholdengo is a very good mon, but it kinda suffers a bit from a consistency point of view since it relies a lot on the match up of the set it is running vs the rival's team simply because it can't do everything it wants at the same time.

I'm actually happily surprised. It's good that the metagame is finding ways to adapt and grow outside of just using the de facto "only" options.
Kingambit's rise definitely seems to reflect that.
Also, strongly agree that Great Tusk has a strictly better design over Lando-Terrible

turd2 · Apr 1, 2023

Ranga226 said:
what do you think would be the most effective way to use an offensive tyranitar set in the current meta. Like what moves/teammates to make it somewhat functional. I assume dragon dance is generally off the table without a lot of para support due to its low base speed.

I don't think you would. Kingambit is the ultimate physical dark type attacker. Tyranitar's only advantage is weather, which lends itself to defensive/utility sets.

DaddyBuzzwole · Apr 1, 2023

CheesyBrie said:
The greatest April Fool's prank would be if those QB were real, and played off like a prank.
Or if they just banned Hazards for a day to see what the meta would be like without them.
Or if they implemented a team preview for tera types (a functionality which exists on showdown, because that's an imperative part of the Tera Donation OM).
Or if they implemented an item clause like the battle tower.

But good jokes nonetheless.

My current favorite is Great Tusk with 55% usage stat! And Pelipper dropping to UU!
...

what if they banned hazards for a day ~~so my team with three regen mons and three voltturn mons can get free dubs~~ just to see what it's like haha just kidding

…unless?

pulsar512b · Apr 1, 2023

Ranga226 said:
what do you think would be the most effective way to use an offensive tyranitar set in the current meta. Like what moves/teammates to make it somewhat functional. I assume dragon dance is generally off the table without a lot of para support due to its low base speed.

band ttar would be my first attempt, tho it does struggle with eg clodsire etc running around rampant. probably still workable with stone edge crunch ice punch

Return to Zero · Apr 2, 2023

Ranga226 said:
what do you think would be the most effective way to use an offensive tyranitar set in the current meta. Like what moves/teammates to make it somewhat functional. I assume dragon dance is generally off the table without a lot of para support due to its low base speed.

Use Kingambit instead.

For real though, you probably need Dragon Dance to boost that Speed up enough to do anything meaningful on offense. Loaded Dice with Rock Blast could turn you into a worse Baxcalibur. Or, ironically, a worse Iron Thorns. Choice Band if you're really sure that you're not going to be revenge killed or you'll have switch-ins for revenge killers. My real advice is probably just to wait for the Home update to bring Sand Rush users.

DaddyBuzzwole · Apr 2, 2023

Ranga226 said:
what do you think would be the most effective way to use an offensive tyranitar set in the current meta. Like what moves/teammates to make it somewhat functional. I assume dragon dance is generally off the table without a lot of para support due to its low base speed.

the most effective way to run offensive ttar is to build a time machine and go to 2018 when pursuit existed

the most effective way in 2023 is to play natdex

Ranga226 · Apr 2, 2023

so basically "learn uu lol" which yea I should have figured before I ask a dumb question. Suppose learning a new metagame would be fun

On the more on topic discussion of actually OU viable mons. How do you guys feel about icebody leftovers sub bax? It seems interesting but you kinda lose a coverage move and torkoal can just remove the hail on you and render your ability irrelevant.

Mega Breloom · Apr 2, 2023

CheesyBrie said:
I'm actually happily surprised. It's good that the metagame is finding ways to adapt and grow outside of just using the de facto "only" options.
Kingambit's rise definitely seems to reflect that.
Also, strongly agree that Great Tusk has a strictly better design over Lando-Terrible

The thing is that most of OU happens to have a way to deal with Gholdengo and sometimes they run it for other things and not just it, maybe just tera ghost Valiant and curse Garg are direct anwsers to it, but dark being so good this gen and Clodsire being everywhere hurts Gholdengo a lot.

Guyoftheego · Apr 2, 2023

Sometimes I really hate lurking in this thread because of the same three repeated jokes over and over.

So this isn't a one-liner, has anyone found any success with Talonflame outside of stall? It's a mon I really like using *on* stall, but I'd like to use it outside of stall as well to have a defogger that can in theory check Gholdengo. I do like Tusk, but with the amount of ghosts in the meta I feel like a defogger that can check the only real blocker against Defog should be useful on more than stall.

Return to Zero · Apr 2, 2023

Ranga226 said:
On the more on topic discussion of actually OU viable mons. How do you guys feel about icebody leftovers sub bax? It seems interesting but you kinda lose a coverage move and torkoal can just remove the hail on you and render your ability irrelevant.

Probably not worth the trouble? Like you said, Torkoal is pretty common now, and Baxcalibur has a pretty finnicky defensive typing that leaves it vulnerable to a lot of common attacks. You need to manage hazards for its Stealth Rock weakness much more and it's pretty much mandatory to save your Tera for it. Could be a fun way to surprise someone though.

kingmickey27 · Apr 2, 2023

Been meaning to ask. What's the Encore set that Azumarill has been running?

Choice Scarf

seems underrated and underexplored. It has a ton of moves to work with and is a very customizable revenge killer. Its speed stat with a Choice Scarf also lets it outpace both Polteageist and Armarouge at +2, Roaring Moon at +1 (which has been spammed a lot as of late), and Iron Valiant at +1.

Meowscarada @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Trick
- U-turn
- Thunder Punch

I've been using this set. Trick is handy for luring and crippling passive Pokemon, as well as keeping setup sweepers like Kingambit under control by preventing them from switching moves (setup sweepers are generally only dangerous when they can switch moves), or if you're lucky, locking them into a set up move. Examples: Replay 1 (Turn 10) and Replay 2 (Turn 20).

Thunder Punch + U-turn can keep Roaring Moon under control whether it Teras to Flying or not. It has a ton of other moves to work with too, like Power Gem, Low Kick, Play Rough, or Toxic Spikes/Spikes, all of which can keep dangerous stuff from getting out of hand. I'm finding it to handy as a means of speed control, glue, and patching up weak spots in teams, especially against the stuff that's being spammed on the ladder.

Antihaxxer · Apr 2, 2023

Is it healthy to have a metagame where a Pokemon is here more than 50% ?

Local Dog · Apr 2, 2023

Antihaxxer said:
Is it healthy to have a metagame where a Pokemon is here more than 50% ?

Depends on the context. In gen 9, Great Tusk can just do and compress things like no other mon and gives an immense level of utility through it. It's not overwhelming or unbeatable, it's just the most utilitarian mon in the metagame

Return to Zero · Apr 2, 2023

Antihaxxer said:
Is it healthy to have a metagame where a Pokemon is here more than 50% ?

A question like that isn't really helpful in a vacuum. GSC OU has a Pokemon with a 100% usage rate, and Tyranitar in RSE has to be within spitting distance of that. Both metagames are not only fine, but enhanced by this fact. But for what I assume you're actually asking, is Great Tusk too good, I disagree. It's not overbearingly strong and its weaknesses are common and wide enough to reliably exploit on your team without having to go out of your way to do so. Great Tusk just kinda has it all. It's really strong, great on defense, extremely easy to fit on a team, has a wide movepool that provides a lot of support and strong offense, and most importantly, nothing else in the metagame combines all of those traits the same way or can use several of them on one set. Great Tusk has its usage rate because it's an extremely efficient skill monkey with no competition for its role, not because it's so strong that you're obligated to use it

awyp · Apr 2, 2023

kingmickey27 said:
Been meaning to ask. What's the Encore set that Azumarill has been running?

Choice Scarf

seems underrated and underexplored. It has a ton of moves to work with and is a very customizable revenge killer. Its speed stat with a Choice Scarf also lets it outpace both Polteageist and Armarouge at +2, Roaring Moon at +1 (which has been spammed a lot as of late), and Iron Valiant at +1.

Meowscarada @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Trick
- U-turn
- Thunder Punch

I've been using this set. Trick is handy for luring and crippling passive Pokemon, as well as keeping setup sweepers like Kingambit under control by preventing them from switching moves (setup sweepers are generally only dangerous when they can switch moves), or if you're lucky, locking them into a set up move. Examples: Replay 1 (Turn 10) and Replay 2 (Turn 20).

Thunder Punch + U-turn can keep Roaring Moon under control whether it Teras to Flying or not. It has a ton of other moves to work with too, like Power Gem, Low Kick, Play Rough, or Toxic Spikes/Spikes, all of which can keep dangerous stuff from getting out of hand. I'm finding it to handy as a means of speed control, glue, and patching up weak spots in teams, especially against the stuff that's being spammed on the ladder.

Ive seen stuff that looks like this in order to get a free turn to setup Belly Drum

:Azumarill:

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet
- Encore

abysshriek · Apr 2, 2023

Guyoftheego said:
So this isn't a one-liner, has anyone found any success with Talonflame outside of stall? It's a mon I really like using *on* stall, but I'd like to use it outside of stall as well to have a defogger that can in theory check Gholdengo. I do like Tusk, but with the amount of ghosts in the meta I feel like a defogger that can check the only real blocker against Defog should be useful on more than stall.

Talonflame's been used on rain teams for some pretty good success. Specs + Hurricane spam can really break through some teams. I've barely seen any run Defog though

jackuzzler · Apr 2, 2023

AndViet said:
Ive seen stuff that looks like this in order to get a free turn to setup Belly Drum

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Play Rough
- Aqua Jet
- Encore

I've also seen (& used) max speed in order to keep up with the new *fast* Kingambits

1LDK · Apr 2, 2023

(Im on phone so sorry if bad grammar)

Im a bit worried about chomps usage, I honestly think people should stop using the Chainchomp set, because its no longer its best set

The set is not bad, but its based around bait, and since everybody uses chain chomp, of course Great Tusk is no gonna fuck around with chomp unless necessary, LO damage alone with EQ spoils it completly

Unironically use scarf tera fire, it shits on valiant like nobodys bussisness, and its speed is underrated, not the best scarfer but no way bad. Maybe I could fuck around with options like SD or Choice Band, maybe even Choice Specs just to make chain chomp cheese chomp

kingmickey27 said:
Choice Scarf

I have been using Scarf Meow and its so good, its one of the best cleaners in the game (you guys know my opinion about booster energy) its power its still decent and gets the jump on a ton

Thunder Punch is a cool tech for corv and tera fly moon but Play Rough is more consistent for me tbh, maybe i could use it

DaddyBuzzwole · Apr 2, 2023

1LDK said:
maybe even Choice Specs just to make chain chomp cheese chomp

i hate that i can see specs garchomp working in the current meta. it's unnatural

kingmickey27 · Apr 2, 2023

You know that really annoying stall team that always appears on ladder?

This Hatterene set is a great way to deal with them rather quickly.

Hatterene @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Psyshock
- Stored Power

Tera Water + Stored Power takes advantage of Dondozo. Psyshock deals with Clodsire and Calm Mind Blissey. Really the only thing stopping this set on stall is Tera Dark Clodsire, which I'm not seeing as often these days.

Anyway, I have some opinions on stuff I consider problematic.

AndViet said:
Okay enough jokes, no more April Fools bullshit.

Volcarona needs to get suspect tested. As it being my favorite Pokémon in the last 4 gens, tera has put it completely over the top. I literally sweep with mono attack on a whole team that resists fire and still sweep, people think that there's only a couple of sets that are out there, but people get curious and just start messing around. I'm not gonna give out the set I've been messing around with but it's completely broken and not fair IMO, as long as you abuse Tera and have Boots you create a legal cheat code IMO on top of sticking with the Fiery Dance 50% Sp.Att increase. There are multiple mons that learn Quiver Dance but none of them are as bulky and built that well to abuse it based on typing. Yes Dragonite walls it pretty well but risking Extreme Speed Flame Body burn is a bit unfair. There's a counter to every set I agree, but the issue is the versatility of the various sets being ran, I've seen a total of 10 sets which is a bit much (and no niche stuff), legitimate sets that can go up on the Smogon Dex.

Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 152 Spe (you can go fatter tbh)
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp

Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz
- Tera Blast

Volcarona @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swarm
Tera Type: Bug / Psychic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Psychic
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz

Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Morning Sun
- Fiery Dance
- Will-O-Wisp

I'm not gonna keep posting, but you have Offensive Hurricane (Tera Flying) under rain + Fire move to combat opposing sun teams, you Have Bulky Substitute with Lefties / Heavy Duty Boots to prevent status and get free turns on Quiver setup, you have a Fire Spin trapper set, you have Endure Weakness Policy + QD, you have Tailwind setter, and the sets become endless with the different Tera Blast / Tera capabilities.

So show of hands can I get some opinions on Volc?

Regarding

Volcarona can pretty much beat or cripple the entire tier with the right set. Even with the mono-attacking set, the stuff that could switch into it like the dragons, Ting-Lu hate getting burned. I found it can form a potent core with Dragapult since Volcarona can cover the Fairy weakness that Pult has (from stuff like Iron Valiant) and can overwhelm/cripple shared checks like Ting-Lu. They can both spread status for each other to make it easier for them to set up or for Dragapult to spam Hex.

All in all, I agree that Volcarona's presence is a dangerous one, even if each of its sets have hard counters. Because you never know what set Volcarona is running, you never know which mons to preserve throughout the game, making it easy for the Volcarona player to set up the playing field for Volcarona to snowball. Ceruledge and Skeledirge are probably the safest defensive counters to Volcarona, but even those fear Ground Tera Blast (or Bug Buzz if Ceruledge chooses to Tera Grass/Bug).

One concern I do have is that Volcarona is one of the best and most consistent checks to Iron Valiant. I'm finding that the tier is sorely lacking in this department, so I am concerned what would happen if Volcarona leaves the tier.

Regarding

I really don't like this thing. It's really difficult to stop the Booster Energy DD set once it gets going. But I think the main thing that's pushing it over the edge for me is Shed Tail, since a well-timed Shed Tail (which isn't all that hard to do) can win the match easily. The only reason I run Thunder Punch + U-turn on Scarf Meowscarada on offense is because its one of the most consistent ways to stop the Shed Tail + Tera Flying Roaring Moon combination after Roaring Moon sets up a DD behind the Substitute. I really think Shed Tail should be tested. It's similar to Baton Passing a substitute. Even if you can only do it once, like Baton Pass, passing to a dangerous recipient once is enough to win games.

1LDK · Apr 3, 2023

Anyway, I have been working on something as of late, and I would like some opinion, it's called
FUCKING
STARAPTOR
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

:sv/Staraptor:

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Quick Attack
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- U-turn

So many of you might be thinking
"But 1LDK, why not use something like Booster Energy valiant, the best cleaner in the game (wrong) or Dragonite, Dragonite is a physical flying type, is slower, but it's way bulkier, has a set-up move, better priority, recovery, and it doesn't kill itself in the process"

Yes, it's all true, and I'm not saying Staraptor is better, in fact, Staraptor fills a very specific niche ONLY on HO, if Dragonite is a 99% on these teams, then Staraptor should be a 1%, and that is what I'm gonna talk about. Staraptor is a PURE flying physical type that gives you immediate offensive pressure and speed control, and does not give you a fairy weakness. In fact, when you think about it, Dragonite is not even a flying type most of the time unless you're running Hurricane for Tusk

Flying as an offensive type is kinda underrated, Reckless Brave Bird hits hard, Close Combat is for steels and Darks, U-turn is for a good momentum keeper and Quick Attack is mainly because with Brave Bird + Close Combat, you're basically hitting almost everything you want, so might as well have that tool just in case, tera fire, It's not just to become burn proof, but it actually lets you take a +1 Flamethrower from Volc and do a million with Brave Bird

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Staraptor: 340-402 (109.3 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Fire Staraptor: 170-201 (54.6 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm gonna post some calcs, this is where people might see a pattern of where I'm finding its niche

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 266-314 (61.2 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 40+ Def Skeledirge: 195-229 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Volcarona: 542-642 (145.3 - 172.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 424-500 (114.9 - 135.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Tera Flying Kingambit: 190-225 (51.4 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 116-137 (36.8 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 154-183 (50.6 - 60.1%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 204-242 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Rotom-Wash: 117-138 (38.4 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Orthworm: 138-164 (40.1 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 116-137 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 96.8% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 232-274 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you saw the calcs, you might see that Starptor has a good matchup against a good amount of Kingambit´s checks, and since Kingambit is so fucking good, Staraptor can eliminate these partners for him, kill himself, get gambit a free entry AND a Supreme Overlord boost, and then he just goes home. So this takes me to the

Good Partners section:

:Glimmora:

/

if raptor already hits hard, then add some hazards in and your 2HKO, get translated into 1

:Kingambit:

like I said before, Kingambit LOVES Staraptor, its ability to take so much stress off him makes it easier to take games

Fire types: it also appreciates melting Corviknight and Gholdengo, 2 of the biggest counters

:Great Tusk:

Tusk removes rocks, Staraptor removes Volcarona and can potentially remove Fairy Skeledirge

Checks and Counters:

:Kingambit:

if Gambit gets a +2 before vaporizing it, he just Sucker Punches you out of the existence

:Corviknight:

/

and

(if physically defensive): these 3 just take a massive dump on raptor, Staraptor cannot break through these 3 at all, Rotom runs special defense for Walking Wake these days tho, so not all hope is lost

:Dondozo:

Lmao

if it is Booster Energy AND has Tbolt then Staraptor gets zapped (fun fact about my personal life, I once saw a bird being electrocuted to death in front of my house because the fucker decided to mess around with the cables of the line, it also caused a blackout for 3 hours)

So I only have 1 reply that makes a good standard and showcases raptor, and it's from round 1, match 2 against Andviet (pls don't be mad, I love u)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1828437120-1hb62fnjwc3t0l0tedj6rf37xumrc7dpw
Turn 10, Raptor gets in, leaves tusk at 6% (here is the proof that it was a low roll: 252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 354-416 (95.4 - 112.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO) and then Gambit goes full THE ONE PIECE IS REAL

Conclussion

Please ban the bird from UU, it just doesn't feel right to see it in anything but UUBL
I'm kinda tired, and I'm naturally bad at writing endings
please give me likes and replies

Headman · Apr 3, 2023

kingmickey27 said:
Been meaning to ask. What's the Encore set that Azumarill has been running?

Choice Scarf

seems underrated and underexplored. It has a ton of moves to work with and is a very customizable revenge killer. Its speed stat with a Choice Scarf also lets it outpace both Polteageist and Armarouge at +2, Roaring Moon at +1 (which has been spammed a lot as of late), and Iron Valiant at +1.

Meowscarada @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Trick
- U-turn
- Thunder Punch

I've been using this set. Trick is handy for luring and crippling passive Pokemon, as well as keeping setup sweepers like Kingambit under control by preventing them from switching moves (setup sweepers are generally only dangerous when they can switch moves), or if you're lucky, locking them into a set up move. Examples: Replay 1 (Turn 10) and Replay 2 (Turn 20).

Thunder Punch + U-turn can keep Roaring Moon under control whether it Teras to Flying or not. It has a ton of other moves to work with too, like Power Gem, Low Kick, Play Rough, or Toxic Spikes/Spikes, all of which can keep dangerous stuff from getting out of hand. I'm finding it to handy as a means of speed control, glue, and patching up weak spots in teams, especially against the stuff that's being spammed on the ladder.

I would ask why it was Jolly instead of Adamant for better chance to threaten 1HKOs, but then I saw Booster Energy Iron Valiant and it outspeeds Adamant.

Red Raven · Apr 3, 2023

1LDK said:
if Gambit gets a +2 before vaporizing it, he just Sucker Punches you out of the existence

Since you put in quick attack in Raptor's set, can't you just block sucker punch with quick attack?

Oh and here's your like

Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

SetsuSetsuna

Ranga226

CheesyBrie

turd2

DaddyBuzzwole

Banned deucer.

pulsar512b

when i look at my pfp i see totoro and feel happy

Return to Zero

DaddyBuzzwole

Banned deucer.

Ranga226

Mega Breloom

Guyoftheego

Return to Zero

kingmickey27

Antihaxxer

Local Dog

Return to Zero

awyp

playoff riser

abysshriek

jackuzzler

1LDK

Rock Bottom

DaddyBuzzwole

Banned deucer.

kingmickey27

1LDK

Rock Bottom

Headman

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!