If you ask me, I think the meta has evolved and learned how to adapt to Gholdy, he's amazing but he has a decent amount of checks in counters (GT, Gambit, Threats, Meows, Gren, Volcarona, Moon, Cinde, Pult, etc). He's meta-defining? For sure because he does what no one else can do but he's not centralizing to the point of saying I need to carry this exact mon to check it because at the end, we always have a ghost, dark, fire or ground type in our team for coverage, not just to take care of it.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
This, Gholdengo really doesn't change much the hazards control, the only one who truly gets nulify by Gholdengo is just Corvi, even Talonflame who is a deffoger can pressure Gholdengo (I don't get why it isn't used outside stall, it looks solid in this meta IMO).
If anything, I would say that tera ghost helps hazards stack more than Gholdengo, the ability to turn every mon in a spin blocker is great, while helps to check stuff like Dragonite better.
I’m seeing a resurgence of “ban Ghold” posts. I have a feeling many of the people here forgot how awful the hazard stacking metas in Gen 4 OU and Gen 5 NU are. I’m gonna be repeating myself alot here
In Gen 4 OU, the only notable spinners were Starmie who hasn’t been seeing that much usage in modern DPP as a spinner, Tentacruel who only fits on fat, Hitmontop who only fits on very specific stall teams, and Forretress who also only fits on specific teams.
Gen 5 NU was even worse. The two best spinners weren’t even that good. Torkoal and fucking Wartortle. Thats it.
Now back to Gen 9. We not only have Boots which y’all mfers complained about killing the hazard metagame last gen, but a spinner in Tusks who is one of if not the best pkmn in the format. Even without Ghold it would still be at that level. I have said this before and I’ll say it again.
It is entirely possible to run a strong team without hazard removal. Several generations have proved that. Anyone remember that Clef/Ferro/Koko/Tini team everyone spammed last gen? Same concept. Superman teams in ADV? Same concept.The concept is strengthened even further with the addition of Boots.
As for Ghold itself, it is checked by Gambit, Iron Moth, Moon, Volc, Clod, Ting-Lu, and Tera Water Dirge. We also can’t forget we’re dealing with a mon with 84 speed. This ain’t no Chien Pao situation where not much can check it nor rkill it. 19 Pokemon in the OU meta outspeed it, some of them being checks to it like Moth.
I already said most of this in earlier posts so you can check out this one for example.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-metagame-discussion.3710915/post-9478697
TL;DR: Ghold is fine, WW and Tera aren’t.
In Gen 4 OU, the only notable spinners were Starmie who hasn’t been seeing that much usage in modern DPP as a spinner, Tentacruel who only fits on fat, Hitmontop who only fits on very specific stall teams, and Forretress who also only fits on specific teams.
Gen 5 NU was even worse. The two best spinners weren’t even that good. Torkoal and fucking Wartortle. Thats it.
Now back to Gen 9. We not only have Boots which y’all mfers complained about killing the hazard metagame last gen, but a spinner in Tusks who is one of if not the best pkmn in the format. Even without Ghold it would still be at that level. I have said this before and I’ll say it again.
It is entirely possible to run a strong team without hazard removal. Several generations have proved that. Anyone remember that Clef/Ferro/Koko/Tini team everyone spammed last gen? Same concept. Superman teams in ADV? Same concept.The concept is strengthened even further with the addition of Boots.
As for Ghold itself, it is checked by Gambit, Iron Moth, Moon, Volc, Clod, Ting-Lu, and Tera Water Dirge. We also can’t forget we’re dealing with a mon with 84 speed. This ain’t no Chien Pao situation where not much can check it nor rkill it. 19 Pokemon in the OU meta outspeed it, some of them being checks to it like Moth.
I already said most of this in earlier posts so you can check out this one for example.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-metagame-discussion.3710915/post-9478697
TL;DR: Ghold is fine, WW and Tera aren’t.
You'll find no disagreement from me on the bolded. Walking Wake is a stupid mon that forces defensive mons to blow their Tera after a bit of chip without commiting to using Tera itself, which skews risk/reward heavily in favour of the Walking Wake user. I will never agree that it is healthy for the meta in spite of it reducing Garganacl usage.
I really dislike Tera for allowing one to flip counterplay on the fly, which should not happen in a competitive meta. Things such as Chien-Pao, Espathra, and Volcarona would not be broken without Tera.
In favor of banning Misses Wake if that means saving Gren from dropping to UU 
Outside sun I can't see a reason why use Wake on your team so I don't see it as Gren's competition. In my opinion the one who is truly hurting Gren's usage is Meow, even if the cat doesn't even run protean that single point of speed what makes it faster than Green truly makes a big difference.In favor of banning Misses Wake if that means saving Gren from dropping to UU
More reasons to hate her! Ban the cat!
Bro why you wanna ban the hyper sexualized human heteromorfic furry bait cat girl, don't you see that banning it would make the degenerate fanbase go away? (one of the biggest contributors of ratings and merchandise sales btw)
anyways since the main reason to make this post is for the question above (and one-liners are illegal), I'm gonna make some irrelevant filler about the current state of the metagame, don't pay too much attention to this
My lawyer has advised me to not continue with this opinion
THE CHEESE INCARNATED, it wins games by ONLY the sheer bullshit your mind has to deal with in team preview, with either WoW or random tera blast moment or Giga Drain spam, or just quiver dance spam, its not problematic because in general, the best way to beat it stays the say, strong physical attacks and pray to god to not proc Flame Body, but yeah, cheese as shit
Oh man, this thing, has a 99% chance of dying the turn it gets into the field and another 99% chance on the one DD, but man, if this gets going, it really fucking mops the floor with you, and choice band sets are another healthy amount of fantastic trolling
Not a problem in the slightest, unironically magical wuaifu meow beats it with play rough (use play rough more on your meow sets) and as long as stuff like donzo, corvi or valiant still exist, RM dd set is easy to counter, it is scary tho. As for band or scarf, they are fun, use tera bug, to remember the great memes we have made across the generations, and if you don't, well, idk 
Centrilizes the game in the hazard game, but they way it does it from the underworld like the fucking movie mafias, its not broken, but it needs to always stay on the radar because this thing alone has changed the meta (corviknight is still ass)Bonus Ducks
It's broken, but it checks broken wake, so we need to keep it, both are broken, yet I feel like the only one who thinks both are broken, this makes no one happy and that's okay
Its not broken, but It's very easy to lose to it, but its more of a "WHY GHOSTS ARE SO BROKEN" reason than Dragapult itself, specs are all around reliable but banded and dragon dance are more of flashy showoff and those can lead to disaster fastertera: I have grown fond of it, I still think it needs to go when HOME arrives but man, this meta has been so refreshing and unique with all the colorful possibility that makes me appreciate it, I will say that it has given me and taken victories away from me, it's fair enough on where it gives and takes, and in this particular meta, I think its balance, I'm gonna miss it when it gets banned, but that's something I have accepted for the good of the meta
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-sv-ou-suspect-process-round-4-99-luftballons.3719008/
How will this shake up the metagame?
How will this shake up the metagame?
April Fools
Council finally doing the right thing smh my head....
I can't believe finchanator would do this!!!! I am going to write some angry messages on his Twitter now.
he actually did it the absolute madman
(for the record, i unironically would like to see an amendment to species clause to allow multiple forms of the same mon, but that's just the part of me talking that wants to use two zoroarks)
Last edited:
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS I CAN FINALLY SPAM TOXAPEX UWUWUWUWUWUWUWUWUWUWUWUWUWUWUWU
anyways, you go ou council ig?
anyways, you go ou council ig?
me screaming "THE ONE PIECE IS REALL" when i send out my kingambit after i killed 5 pawmots twice each
oh no not april fools day again
now they're gonna bring out the toxapexes and lechonks... and with the species clause at risk of being lifted nobody wants that.
We must rally against these forces to keep the meta safe from their insanity!
now they're gonna bring out the toxapexes and lechonks... and with the species clause at risk of being lifted nobody wants that.
We must rally against these forces to keep the meta safe from their insanity!
I am grateful the council finally understands how ridiculous this Species clause was. Nothing but an antiquated holdover from official Nintendo metagames, similar to item clause. Just like item clause, Species clause arbitrarily limits creativity in the builder and eliminates many potential strategies and options for the playerbase. I for one will be voting to remove species clause once I get reqs w/ my team of 3 Volcaronas.
https://pokepast.es/abda235055459b82 finally, peak pokemon team can shine...
Okay enough jokes, no more April Fools bullshit.
Volcarona needs to get suspect tested. As it being my favorite Pokémon in the last 4 gens, tera has put it completely over the top. I literally sweep with mono attack on a whole team that resists fire and still sweep, people think that there's only a couple of sets that are out there, but people get curious and just start messing around. I'm not gonna give out the set I've been messing around with but it's completely broken and not fair IMO, as long as you abuse Tera and have Boots you create a legal cheat code IMO on top of sticking with the Fiery Dance 50% Sp.Att increase. There are multiple mons that learn Quiver Dance but none of them are as bulky and built that well to abuse it based on typing. Yes Dragonite walls it pretty well but risking Extreme Speed Flame Body burn is a bit unfair. There's a counter to every set I agree, but the issue is the versatility of the various sets being ran, I've seen a total of 10 sets which is a bit much (and no niche stuff), legitimate sets that can go up on the Smogon Dex.
I'm not gonna keep posting, but you have Offensive Hurricane (Tera Flying) under rain + Fire move to combat opposing sun teams, you Have Bulky Substitute with Lefties / Heavy Duty Boots to prevent status and get free turns on Quiver setup, you have a Fire Spin trapper set, you have Endure Weakness Policy + QD, you have Tailwind setter, and the sets become endless with the different Tera Blast / Tera capabilities.
So show of hands can I get some opinions on Volc?
Volcarona needs to get suspect tested. As it being my favorite Pokémon in the last 4 gens, tera has put it completely over the top. I literally sweep with mono attack on a whole team that resists fire and still sweep, people think that there's only a couple of sets that are out there, but people get curious and just start messing around. I'm not gonna give out the set I've been messing around with but it's completely broken and not fair IMO, as long as you abuse Tera and have Boots you create a legal cheat code IMO on top of sticking with the Fiery Dance 50% Sp.Att increase. There are multiple mons that learn Quiver Dance but none of them are as bulky and built that well to abuse it based on typing. Yes Dragonite walls it pretty well but risking Extreme Speed Flame Body burn is a bit unfair. There's a counter to every set I agree, but the issue is the versatility of the various sets being ran, I've seen a total of 10 sets which is a bit much (and no niche stuff), legitimate sets that can go up on the Smogon Dex.
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 152 Spe (you can go fatter tbh)
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 108 Def / 152 Spe (you can go fatter tbh)
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Fiery Dance
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz
- Tera Blast
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Timid Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Flamethrower
- Bug Buzz
- Tera Blast
Volcarona @ Focus Sash
Ability: Swarm
Tera Type: Bug / Psychic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Psychic
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
Ability: Swarm
Tera Type: Bug / Psychic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Psychic
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
Volcarona @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Morning Sun
- Fiery Dance
- Will-O-Wisp
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Morning Sun
- Fiery Dance
- Will-O-Wisp
I'm not gonna keep posting, but you have Offensive Hurricane (Tera Flying) under rain + Fire move to combat opposing sun teams, you Have Bulky Substitute with Lefties / Heavy Duty Boots to prevent status and get free turns on Quiver setup, you have a Fire Spin trapper set, you have Endure Weakness Policy + QD, you have Tailwind setter, and the sets become endless with the different Tera Blast / Tera capabilities.
So show of hands can I get some opinions on Volc?
- Status