Bro Gira-A has 100 base SpA and 150/120/120 bulk
If your set is Calm Mind 3 attacks or CM+Rest 2 attacks it ain't a stall mon, it's just a setup sweeper lmao
-
The moderators of this forum are Finchinator, Ruft, ausma, 658Greninja, kd458, FayaWizard, Srn, TPP, and viivian.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
If your set is Calm Mind 3 attacks or CM+Rest 2 attacks it ain't a stall mon, it's just a setup sweeper lmao
i think that's called an "argument"
then you lose to clodsire
then you lose to kingambit. gira-a can't beat everything at once. it wants cm + rest + wisp + dual stab but it has to give one up and that gets it either walled by something or chipped by everything
losing to one mon isn't usually an argument for a set being bad. there are 5 other slots
i never said the sets were bad. i never said gira-a would be bad in ou. in fact, it would be phenomenal in ou, i'm thinking a+ tier minimum. but i'm arguing that it might not be broken in ou, especially with the other post-home additions coming to the tier, and i'm saying that the only way to see whether it is or not is to try it and see what happens
But the Rest set literally outstalls it
Bruh, neither can Espathra and Houndstone, the latter of which gets walled by Normal mons. Does losing to 2 or 3 mons make it suddenly not broken? What
Last edited:
it really doesn't beat things as handily as you think it does. i wrote a whole list of things that common gira-a sets struggle against, but apparently everyone missed it, so allow me to make it a bit harder to ignore:
- taunt + spirit break grimm beats any and every giratina set except for, like, steel/poison tera blast
- after taunting, just spam spirit break and you win
- this thing is actually impossible for giratina to beat unless you run a set specifically against it, which cripples giratina against a whole host of other things
- untouchable by sets without dragon stab, shadow ball does nothing even at +6
- gira still needs heavy setup to scratch ting-lu even with dragon stab
- can whirlwind gira out after setup
- crippled by wisp but ruination puts a lot of pressure on gira
- tera fairy skeledirge easily beats every combination of things giratina reasonably runs
- torch song lets dirge brute-force its way through giratina even post-tera
- hex sets beat rest sets extra hard. that sounds like a shitty tongue twister but it's just a fact
- can't safely switch in before it teras, which is the literal only downside dirge has in this matchup
- beats cm + rest + 2 attacks even if it teras, unless you let it set up to +2 or more beforehand and gambit doesn't have supreme overlord boosts
- loses to wisp unless you've already set up, or you get lucky with misses or use tera fire
- the later in the game this matchup occurs, the more fucked giratina is
- beats cm + rest + 2 attacks if giratina hasn't set up
- belly drum set can still beat wisp if it doesn't have shadow ball
- tera is difficult for azu to beat, unless you predict it correctly, in which case gira just crumbles
- chunks sets without healing
- walls sets without shadow ball
- how it deals with tera is dependent on what both of you are running, so this is really a matchup fish in both directions
- eats non-rest sets for breakfast
- pp-stalled by rest sets
- tera fairy hard walls any gira set
- chips non-rest sets easily, but gets pp-stalled by rest sets
- one of the only physical attackers that can beat wisp sets
- loses to sets with dragon stab but handily dismantles ones without it
- if you still buy into the outrage lum meme, you can actually do stuff against unsuspecting wisp sets without dragon stab
- ah who am i kidding, everyone runs chainchomp these days
- …which gira-a has a lot of trouble switching into because draco 2hkos
- haha sun band go brrrrr
- has good enough special bulk to tank a dragon pulse if gira hasn't set up
- if you still buy into the outrage lum meme,
- specs draco has a chance to ohko gira on switchin, unless it's spdef invested (it is not)
- surprisingly, can take a non-set-up, uninvested shadow ball or dragon pulse, so you could also go for the safer guaranteed 2hko with specs shadow ball
- sets up on non-wisp sets that aren't already set up themselves, especially once tera'd
- for best results, pair with orthworm (can you believe it, the standard worm set doesn't even take 50% from shadow ball) to obtain The Amazing Unbreakable Substitute™, which lets you reliably beat wisp sets also
- specs ice beam or dark pulse 2hko on switch-in
- can't really do shit against a giratina that's already set up
- unless you're mixed and it teras fairy, in which case you can get it with a gunk shot
- open the door
- get on the floor
- everybody walk the dinosaur
- shadow ball does a large chunk on switch-in
- nasty plot sets beat sets that lack shadow ball
- trick scarf sets make giratina's lifespan a lot shorter
- non-plot sets can't do much against a set-up giratina unless you get lucky with spdef drops
- banded knock off hits pretty hard, and removing leftovers is neat
- taunt sets make a fool out of giratina unless it's running dragon stab
- plays illusion mindgames
- hits hard with shadow ball and walls sets without dragon stab
- can trick specs onto it, but this isn't super advisable
- sits on sets without shadow ball
- as a matter of fact, you can start setting up if the giratina doesn't have shadow ball
- can't be wisped
- nasty plot sets can easily win against sets without dragon stab, unless they're tera fairy
- i mean, if you have coverage you do still win against tera fairy, but it's harder
- beats non-wisp sets even after a turn or two of setup
- needs band or at least one dragon dance to deal enough damage, but it can definitely get said ddance up if there's no wisp coming its way
i have spoken.
Last edited:
DaddyBuzzwole has spoken release Tina, the tier can handle her flop ass!
listen, i finally found a windmill to tilt at, just let me have this one
Unironically scarf chomp is good, just make it straight up 4 attacks, don't run the bullshit spikes, rocks, or a fucking mix set with fire blast, just no, also can somebody explain the outrage lum meme
Clod literally gets PP stalled.
Nothing can beat everything at once. Flutter Mane for example couldn't easily get past Clod without it Psyshock. Yet no one would seriously say it was ever balanced at all. Gira-A has the stats and movepool and typing to fuck over all its would be answers. That's without considering tera which it would abuse better than anything. On top of set variety. Wisp+hex and any two other moves, phasing sets with resttalk would be toxic as fuck in such a hazard focused meta, cm+3 attacks, cm+rest, subcm+2 attacks.
There is nothing coming to OU that would remotely balance GiraA out at all, at least nothing that wasn't broken itself. Further more, there is zero reason to at all bother which such a test in the first place when HOME is slated to inject a new wave of power creep that makes the already high power of this meta even crazier. The last thing this tier needs is another dumb pokemon.
it really doesn't beat things as handily as you think it does. i wrote a whole list of things that common gira-a sets struggle against, but apparently everyone missed it, so allow me to make it a bit harder to ignore:
- taunt + spirit break grimm beats any and every giratina set except for, like, steel/poison tera blast
- after taunting, just spam spirit break and you win
- this thing is actually impossible for giratina to beat unless you run a set specifically against it, which cripples giratina against a whole host of other things
- untouchable by sets without dragon stab, shadow ball does nothing even at +6
- gira still needs heavy setup to scratch ting-lu even with dragon stab
- can whirlwind gira out after setup
- crippled by wisp but ruination puts a lot of pressure on gira
- tera fairy skeledirge easily beats every combination of things giratina reasonably runs
- torch song lets dirge brute-force its way through giratina even post-tera
- hex sets beat rest sets extra hard. that sounds like a shitty tongue twister but it's just a fact
- can't safely switch in before it teras, which is the literal only downside dirge has in this matchup
- beats cm + rest + 2 attacks even if it teras, unless you let it set up to +2 or more beforehand and gambit doesn't have supreme overlord boosts
- loses to wisp unless you've already set up, or you get lucky with misses or use tera fire
- the later in the game this matchup occurs, the more fucked giratina is
- beats cm + rest + 2 attacks if giratina hasn't set up
- belly drum set can still beat wisp if it doesn't have shadow ball
- tera is difficult for azu to beat, unless you predict it correctly, in which case gira just crumbles
- chunks sets without healing
- walls sets without shadow ball
- how it deals with tera is dependent on what both of you are running, so this is really a matchup fish in both directions
- eats non-rest sets for breakfast
- pp-stalled by rest sets
- tera fairy hard walls any gira set
- chips non-rest sets easily, but gets pp-stalled by rest sets
- one of the only physical attackers that can beat wisp sets
- loses to sets with dragon stab but handily dismantles ones without it
- if you still buy into the outrage lum meme, you can actually do stuff against unsuspecting wisp sets without dragon stab
- ah who am i kidding, everyone runs chainchomp these days
- …which gira-a has a lot of trouble switching into because draco 2hkos
- haha sun band go brrrrr
- has good enough special bulk to tank a dragon pulse if gira hasn't set up
- if you still buy into the outrage lum meme,
- specs draco has a chance to ohko gira on switchin, unless it's spdef invested (it is not)
- surprisingly, can take a non-set-up, uninvested shadow ball or dragon pulse, so you could also go for the safer guaranteed 2hko with specs shadow ball
- sets up on non-wisp sets that aren't already set up themselves, especially once tera'd
- for best results, pair with orthworm (can you believe it, the standard worm set doesn't even take 50% from shadow ball) to obtain The Amazing Unbreakable Substitute™, which lets you reliably beat wisp sets also
- specs ice beam or dark pulse 2hko on switch-in
- can't really do shit against a giratina that's already set up
- unless you're mixed and it teras fairy, in which case you can get it with a gunk shot
- open the door
- get on the floor
- everybody walk the dinosaur
- shadow ball does a large chunk on switch-in
- nasty plot sets beat sets that lack shadow ball
- trick scarf sets make giratina's lifespan a lot shorter
- non-plot sets can't do much against a set-up giratina unless you get lucky with spdef drops
- banded knock off hits pretty hard, and removing leftovers is neat
- taunt sets make a fool out of giratina unless it's running dragon stab
- plays illusion mindgames
- hits hard with shadow ball and walls sets without dragon stab
- can trick specs onto it, but this isn't super advisable
- sits on sets without shadow ball
- as a matter of fact, you can start setting up if the giratina doesn't have shadow ball
- can't be wisped
- nasty plot sets can easily win against sets without dragon stab, unless they're tera fairy
- i mean, if you have coverage you do still win against tera fairy, but it's harder
and that's not even counting the home stuff
- beats non-wisp sets even after a turn or two of setup
- needs band or at least one dragon dance to deal enough damage, but it can definitely get said ddance up if there's no wisp coming its way
Ohhhhboy.
Grimm: who TF is running taunt+spirit break. Screens+parting leaves one free slot and no one runs Grimm off of HO.
Ting-Lu: gets worn down with how much it has to check. Loses to phasing sets (And hates being wisped).
Dirge: has to run tera fairy and can still lose to roar versions of phasing sets.
Kingambit: loses to wisp sets without tera fire.
Azu: relying on not GiraA not being set up is the definition of bad as a check. And depending on your own set up is even worse.
Valiant: can't even touch CM sets. Also lol "sets without shadow ball" cuz what set isn't running ghost stab. Maybe phasing but...
Clod: loses to sub cm sets. And rest. Shitty answer.
Garg: loses to phasing sets. Gets trolled by subcm sets.
Bax: hoping you face non dragon stab variants is a good show of unreliable. Also loses based in Gura's tera type.
Garchomp: dies to any CM variant. Can't hope to break it at all. And no GiraA isn't switching into chomp so why mention it.
Roaring Moon: actually decent except loses to wisp variants.
Dragapult: can't beat CM variants and especially restcm. And stop talking about GiraA switching into these mons. It's hurting your post.
Dragonite: loses to wisp and phasing sets and can't even touch GiraA anyway. Doesn't run dragon stab most of the time so...
Greninja: loses to CM variants. Stop saying GiraA switches into these threats. It's not doing that.
Wake: offensive check. Can't switch into GiraA. Also shaky vs restcm.
Ghold: trickscarf is the only actual workable answer her. And btw, is slower than GiraA. So...
Meow: wisp lol.
ZoroH: okay. But frailty makes this super inconsistent as any non ghost attack from GiraA ruins it (and relying on illusion mindgames is not reliable counterplay).
Hatt: "sets without shadow ball" I repeat. What sets.
Hydreigon: matchup is tera dependant. Lose to dragon stab variants.
Ttar: literal garbage in the meta game so why is this here
All of these are also very dependant on GiraA tera type which makes them much shakier already. In general there is no benefit GiraA brings to the tier and the only reason anyone would argue for it is having the novelty of a box legend in OU. And btw, GiraA on stall is not something you want in this tier.
i actually like fireblast to fuck with corv a lil bit, but you do you.
anyways on the topic on other scarfers tusk is like amazing
Need (Great Tusk) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Headlong Rush
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin / rocks or some shit
everybody is running defensive rn and you fuck with so many mons, the most supreme revenge killer. You also like body sun with atk boost with scarf. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve clicked cc against a meow lead, hit up ace and specs gren too.
if anyone wants to try scarf tusk here’s a fancy original team (possible rmt coming soon?????)
I've played with Scarf Tusk and tbh, I'm not too impressed by it. It can get KOs and Revenge Kill fairly reliably, but you lose a really good defensive glue Pokemon as a result. It's kind of like buying wagyu beef and then grinding it up to make a hamburger out of it. It'll still taste good, but kind of a poor way to use beef that costs $250/lb.
Bruuuuh you can't do this to me right now, I gotta sleep... I'll try to read each mon and reply tomorrow, but you're already losing your ground for not including Specs Glaceon :(it really doesn't beat things as handily as you think it does. i wrote a whole list of things that common gira-a sets struggle against, but apparently everyone missed it, so allow me to make it a bit harder to ignore:
- taunt + spirit break grimm beats any and every giratina set except for, like, steel/poison tera blast
- after taunting, just spam spirit break and you win
- this thing is actually impossible for giratina to beat unless you run a set specifically against it, which cripples giratina against a whole host of other things
- untouchable by sets without dragon stab, shadow ball does nothing even at +6
- gira still needs heavy setup to scratch ting-lu even with dragon stab
- can whirlwind gira out after setup
- crippled by wisp but ruination puts a lot of pressure on gira
- tera fairy skeledirge easily beats every combination of things giratina reasonably runs
- torch song lets dirge brute-force its way through giratina even post-tera
- hex sets beat rest sets extra hard. that sounds like a shitty tongue twister but it's just a fact
- can't safely switch in before it teras, which is the literal only downside dirge has in this matchup
- beats cm + rest + 2 attacks even if it teras, unless you let it set up to +2 or more beforehand and gambit doesn't have supreme overlord boosts
- loses to wisp unless you've already set up, or you get lucky with misses or use tera fire
- the later in the game this matchup occurs, the more fucked giratina is
- beats cm + rest + 2 attacks if giratina hasn't set up
- belly drum set can still beat wisp if it doesn't have shadow ball
- tera is difficult for azu to beat, unless you predict it correctly, in which case gira just crumbles
- chunks sets without healing
- walls sets without shadow ball
- how it deals with tera is dependent on what both of you are running, so this is really a matchup fish in both directions
- eats non-rest sets for breakfast
- pp-stalled by rest sets
- tera fairy hard walls any gira set
- chips non-rest sets easily, but gets pp-stalled by rest sets
- one of the only physical attackers that can beat wisp sets
- loses to sets with dragon stab but handily dismantles ones without it
- if you still buy into the outrage lum meme, you can actually do stuff against unsuspecting wisp sets without dragon stab
- ah who am i kidding, everyone runs chainchomp these days
- …which gira-a has a lot of trouble switching into because draco 2hkos
- haha sun band go brrrrr
- has good enough special bulk to tank a dragon pulse if gira hasn't set up
- if you still buy into the outrage lum meme,
- specs draco has a chance to ohko gira on switchin, unless it's spdef invested (it is not)
- surprisingly, can take a non-set-up, uninvested shadow ball or dragon pulse, so you could also go for the safer guaranteed 2hko with specs shadow ball
- sets up on non-wisp sets that aren't already set up themselves, especially once tera'd
- for best results, pair with orthworm (can you believe it, the standard worm set doesn't even take 50% from shadow ball) to obtain The Amazing Unbreakable Substitute™, which lets you reliably beat wisp sets also
- specs ice beam or dark pulse 2hko on switch-in
- can't really do shit against a giratina that's already set up
- unless you're mixed and it teras fairy, in which case you can get it with a gunk shot
- open the door
- get on the floor
- everybody walk the dinosaur
- shadow ball does a large chunk on switch-in
- nasty plot sets beat sets that lack shadow ball
- trick scarf sets make giratina's lifespan a lot shorter
- non-plot sets can't do much against a set-up giratina unless you get lucky with spdef drops
- banded knock off hits pretty hard, and removing leftovers is neat
- taunt sets make a fool out of giratina unless it's running dragon stab
- plays illusion mindgames
- hits hard with shadow ball and walls sets without dragon stab
- can trick specs onto it, but this isn't super advisable
- sits on sets without shadow ball
- as a matter of fact, you can start setting up if the giratina doesn't have shadow ball
- can't be wisped
- nasty plot sets can easily win against sets without dragon stab, unless they're tera fairy
- i mean, if you have coverage you do still win against tera fairy, but it's harder
so there you are, 21 potential answers, and that's not even counting the home stuff. some are more situational than others, but the ones at the top can beat giratina-a reliably.
- beats non-wisp sets even after a turn or two of setup
- needs band or at least one dragon dance to deal enough damage, but it can definitely get said ddance up if there's no wisp coming its way
i have spoken.
Mmh I've faced Scarf Tusk a couple of times, and most of those times it gave me Scarf Lando vibes. Fortunately it doesn't learn U-turn...
The thing is tho, it was mainly good for its surprise factor, as in lead with it turn 1 against Pult and just click Headlong Rush to KO stuff (I'm saying it from experience). I think it's overall a good Scarfer, but if you're gonna use Scarf you gotta commit to the set and run Ice Spinner as the 4th move, just for better coverage and to threaten the several Dragons in the tier.
whoever makes the ou sample sets, apparently. guess they must not be as skilled as you, though
you clearly haven't run the calcs if you think ting is getting "worn down". shadow ball does less to it than will-o-wisp does and it can come in on dragon pulse something like 5 times. phazing sets don't exist. also, yeah, it hates being wisped, and i pointed out that it hates being wisped. so thanks for agreeing with me
if you're not running tera fairy on dirge you're not running a serious team. phazing sets (please spell it correctly) continue to not exist, and even if they did, being forced out by one isn't "losing". if you're throwing up your hands and saying "welp, guess that one's a lost cause" whenever a mon gets phazed out, you won't get very far
which is exactly what i said. i beg of you, please read my posts.
fuck is this take g
i must have forgotten to say that because i know for a fact that "loses to cm sets" was one of the bullets at some point in the making of that post. and for the record, there are non-phazing sets without ghost stab
no one runs sub cm and i specifically pointed out that it loses to rest. you seem to be equating "this pokemon doesn't beat every single giratina set 100% of the time" with "this pokemon instantly faints if giratina with any set whatsoever is on the field". shitty response.
are the phazing and subcm sets in the room with us right now?
you can't just keep going "b-b-but it doesn't beat every set" like it's an argument. also nice autocorrect
if it "can't hope to break it at all", why wouldn't you switch into it? please be logically consistent.
well, if you've bought into the outrage lum meme,
ddance variants beat restcm by merit of having 2 turns to set up because there's no room for sleep talk on any giratina set. in fact, there's basically no room for anything on any giratina set.
what the fuck dragonite sets are you running bro
fair enough, you do have a point about the switching thing
this is what i was going to say about it but i decided to be funny instead, a mistake i will gladly repeat.
…so what?
i see you've put exactly as much effort into responding to my post as you have reading it
i mean, yeah, this is why we're towards the bottom of the list and not the top. i said some of these were situational
gee, i dunno, how about these "phazing sets" you seem to think exist
every matchup is tera dependent. welcome to gen 9, enjoy your stay
i'm trying to meme him back into ou because he's based
i think you may be missing the point of the post. an average team will likely have multiple things that are feasibly capable of dealing with different giratina sets, without having to specifically dedicate a teamslot to it. it's the same principle that made lando-t not broken—sure, it could run a million different sets and nothing could beat all of them, but a well-crafted ou team would have 2 or more mons that could cover all or most of lando's viable options in tandem. you're behaving like everyone's running these schrodinger-ass giratina sets that have substitute and calm mind and shadow ball and dragon pulse and roar and dragon tail and will-o-wisp and rest all at the same time when they do not in fact do that. i'd also like to remind everyone that this is, until home actually releases, purely theoretical. it's very possible that i am dead wrong and giratina-a is still broken, but i believe it's worth a shot to test it, if only for a little while, because otherwise we'll never truly know, which is the entire point of testing things. (also, i've been looking for a weird hill to die on for a while)
ah shit, you're right. how could i fucking forget. why would the almighty powers above create such a damnèd fool as myself? woe and calamity is me
i mean, if the stakes are "gira-a drops to ou if i win", i'd be down
Last edited:
floor
Retesting legendaries is the last thing we should be doing once Home rolls out, we're already expecting 30+ new mons that are going to shake up the meta tremendously, retesting ubers that have been in that position for multiple generations in the past should be the least of our concerns, since they all additionally have access to tera.
Let the meta settle out with the new mon inclusions, retests shouldn't be out of the question, but let's keep the discussion to the current meta, or returning OU pokemon that'll come with home (+ maybe hisui mons, unsure if those are getting added alongside home).
Let the meta settle out with the new mon inclusions, retests shouldn't be out of the question, but let's keep the discussion to the current meta, or returning OU pokemon that'll come with home (+ maybe hisui mons, unsure if those are getting added alongside home).
https://pokepast.es/fc7a6d5f0b5f96dd
https://pokepast.es/240cf24c53b10766
I've played around with it too but it's difficult to pull off with how offensive the meta is unless you're facing really defensive balance or stall teams. CB Tpunch Meow has next to 0 safe switch ins when backed by FS and Chilly gives it an easy time getting in but pulling it off requires hella good positioning. Slowbro imo matches up with the meta better than Slowking, the best use I found for Bro was enabling CB Tusk outside of sun teams since Bro defensively handles many of the same mons as defensive Tusk does while CB Tusk + FS cracks a lot of defensive cores.
Clod can really only flex on stall teams, balance and bulky offence have a hard time deviating for WA with EQ/Toxic/Recover/Hazards or Haze. On stall with Unaware and leftovers, Poison Jab is a solid option over Toxic to beat fairies especially with tera steel or psychic, while Low Kick over Hazards/Haze lets you trade with Hydreigon although it's useless in most other matchups. I've been tempted to try an Unaware Curse set but it's super hard to fit on a team.
Since we are talking about the big legendaries in OU, do you think we should leave Kyurem-B in Uber rather than testing it in OU like in 8G, when it is available. This Pokémon has clearly become too powerful, and even in National Dex it was quickbanned.
Kyurem-B? What is that? Ooooh you mean Mega Baxcalibur?
Yeah I think you answered that question yourself
, just move on to another topic please- Status