Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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Mega Breloom said:
I would say that tera made the coverage on mons less valuable since everything can get around that, what matters now is how strong a mon hits and what side effect the move has (status chance, defenses drops, bypassing subs, an so on.)
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Coverage is still valuable because not everything wants to burn Tera just to not die.

tococot said:
Wake is more spammable with what it does, Water and Fire isnt too limited in this metagame and and sun is still popping off. Tera Blast also gives it more coverage to use as well, broadening its usage

I'll admit that its predictable but that doesn't mean Greninja isn't somewhat predictable too.
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Wake is slower off sun, and thus loses to offensive threats Greninja does not. I also don't think Wake uses Tera blast ever so that is wholely pointless to mention.

Swagodile said:
Greninja was always carried by Protean. The nerf hurt Greninja far more than it hurts Cinderace or Meowscarada (because Meow was designed with the nerfed Protean in mind).
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And Greninja runs specs which doesn't care about the protean nerf. It's very much viable still.
 
Moyashi said:
Coverage is still valuable because not everything wants to burn Tera just to not die.



Wake is slower off sun, and thus loses to offensive threats Greninja does not. I also don't think Wake uses Tera blast ever so that is wholely pointless to mention.



And Greninja runs specs which doesn't care about the protean nerf. It's very much viable still.
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Coverage is valuable for sweepers like booster Valiant or Volc, for breakers like Gren, Bax and Wake what is important the raw damage output they can do to different mons. A well built them rarely will get sweep by a Greninja so it has to try to work as a breaker.
 
Greninja UU is very odd. I still wreck havoc with Specs. And unlike Walking Wake it has Grass Knot (and Extrasensory for things like Toxapex)

I do not like Swords Dance on Iron Hands. Can someone proof to me with a replay how that is supposed to work?
 
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I need someone to explain to me how tera is still in the metagame, i just had a typhlosion do 62% to my av toxapex with a resisted move, how is that a game in which a better player can play around threats if even the most bulky resists get easily twoshot without hazards or setup or even an ability
 
Link loyan said:
i just had a typhlosion do 62% to my av toxapex with a resisted move
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Fucking based
I love tera bros
I hope it stays forever

Also, tera is gonna be suspected again in like, 3 months after HOME, if best case scenario which, everything bad it's quick banned and the meta develops calmly
 
Link loyan said:
I need someone to explain to me how tera is still in the metagame, i just had a typhlosion do 62% to my av toxapex with a resisted move, how is that a game in which a better player can play around threats if even the most bulky resists get easily twoshot without hazards or setup or even an ability
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252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Typhlosion Overheat vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 102-120 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Nice try, tho. Could've been in Blaze.
 
OriginalBoat said:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Typhlosion Overheat vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex: 102-120 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
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252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex in Sun: 175-207 (57.7 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You see this calc? This is beautiful, absolutely majestic
 
1LDK said:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex in Sun: 175-207 (57.7 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You see this calc? This is beautiful, absolutely majestic
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Dawg its crazy that typhlosion had to have the sun up and be at full health and have specs and be modest and be tera'd to even damage that stupid mon, and he complains about it instead of bringing up how broken toxapex is for tanking anything less.
 
OriginalBoat said:
Dog its crazy he had to have the sun up and be at full health and have specs to even threaten that stupid motherfucker, and he complains instead of discussing how broken toxapex is for tanking anything less.
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yeah it is crazy, how can a pokemon be so broken to only take 60 from a resisted move in sun if it has an av and the move is special, damn is pex broken and tera fair
damn, he had to have sun up so be on one of his 8 turns after he brought in torkoal and he had to keep rocks away, do you expect me to have only teams with hazardsetters that beat both torkoal and hatterene? it wouldve been fine if tera didnt exist as it would do a bit less but with tera it is straight up unreasonable

if it was a SE move okay, or if it was at least neutral and boosted but just being able to click one move in a certain matchup is stupid
 
Link loyan said:
yeah it is crazy, how can a pokemon be so broken to only take 60 from a resisted move in sun if it has an av and the move is special, damn is pex broken and tera fair
damn, he had to have sun up so be on one of his 8 turns after he brought in torkoal and he had to keep rocks away, do you expect me to have only teams with hazardsetters that beat both torkoal and hatterene? it wouldve been fine if tera didnt exist as it would do a bit less but with tera it is straight up unreasonable

if it was a SE move okay, or if it was at least neutral and boosted but just being able to click one move in a certain matchup is stupid
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Maybe you should complain about Typhlosion in the UU forum since thats the tier its in lol. Otherwise, I personally hope terastilize stays around forever, so I can continue to make fun of salty players using stupidly broken mons that are wallbroken by shitty starters now. maybe try terastilizing yourself 0.o.
 
OriginalBoat said:
Maybe you should complain about Typhlosion in the UU forum. Otherwise, I personally hope tera stays around forever, so I can continue to make fun of salty stall players using stupidly broken mons that are wallbroken by shitty starters now.
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if you need a broken mechanic to beat stall and then make fun of players you couldnt beat yourself because you feel better then please keep thinking that, stall isnt good and has never been because good players were always able to beat stall teams, there is a reason though why good players gravitate towards bulky teams instead of ho if there is the chance because in a 12 turn game you cant really be better than your opponent, you can just have luck in 50/50s, in 30 or 40 turns you can actually outplay and outmaneuver the opponent
but yeah everyone who wants to play the game instead of just clicking the same button to be monkeybrain and saying something like "big number haha lol im 5 and think im good and funny" is stupid and should just stop complaining about uncompetetive stuff
 
Link loyan said:
especially if "a certain matchup" just is "the opponent has one or more slower pokemon that 100 base speed
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A kind of speed control is needed in almost every team though. We are aware that Typhlosion and Charizard can do that under sun, however they aren't reliable at that since they have a lot of consistency issues, that is why those mons aren't banned or even OU. You just got a bad match up, that can happen to everyone since not team is prepared for everything.
 
Link loyan said:
I need someone to explain to me how tera is still in the metagame, i just had a typhlosion do 62% to my av toxapex with a resisted move, how is that a game in which a better player can play around threats if even the most bulky resists get easily twoshot without hazards or setup or even an ability
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I get the distaste for Tera as a quick power boost for Wall-breaking, but Typhlosion's schtick has always been massively-inefficient set-up for a giant Fire nuke, at least when looking at it in an OU context considering its low speed, defenses, and barren coverage. Base 100 Speed is almost slow for OU standards (at least on a full offense mon), so getting the chance to fire that nuke off at full power takes extreme luck or the opponent affording them a very specific opportunity.

Tera's a contentious topic but there are much more effective choices to discuss and illustrate the unhealthy effect.
 
Mega Breloom said:
A kind of speed control is needed in almost every team though. We are aware that Typhlosion and Charizard can do that under sun, however they aren't reliable at that since they have a lot of consistency issues, that is why those mons aren't banned or even OU. You just got a bad match up, that can happen to everyone since not team is prepared for everything.
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thanks, that is actually constructive and a fair point, my speedcontrol was sadly a cinderace which didnt really help me, i just think that this huge reliance on a good matchup exists because of tera and i wish tera would be restricted or better yet banned but i do realize that a few people disagree, it is just so annoying that nothing happened and the meta stayed that way to not calm down because of 0.75% that made it not 60%
 
pika pal said:
I get the distaste for Tera as a quick power boost for Wall-breaking, but Typhlosion's schtick has always been massively-inefficient set-up for a giant Fire nuke, at least when looking at it in an OU context considering its low speed, defenses, and barren coverage. Base 100 Speed is almost slow for OU standards (at least on a full offense mon), so getting the chance to fire that nuke off at full power takes extreme luck or the opponent affording them a very specific opportunity.

Tera's a contentious topic but there are much more effective choices to discuss and illustrate the unhealthy effect.
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you are completely correct, ive already done a better explanation on why i think tera is unhealthy, unfun and uncompetetive and yeah i realize that what i did was more of a "well this set destroyed me so i hate it now" but still it proves my point because: why is toxapex unable to take a fire type? because of tera
 
Link loyan said:
you are completely correct, ive already done a better explanation on why i think tera is unhealthy, unfun and uncompetetive and yeah i realize that what i did was more of a "well this set destroyed me so i hate it now" but still it proves my point because: why is toxapex unable to take a fire type? because of tera
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252+ SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex in Sun: 131-155 (43.2 - 51.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Typhlosion does not need tera to beat Toxapex if stealth rocks are on the field.

You just got beat.
 
Link loyan said:
you are completely correct, ive already done a better explanation on why i think tera is unhealthy, unfun and uncompetetive and yeah i realize that what i did was more of a "well this set destroyed me so i hate it now" but still it proves my point because: why is toxapex unable to take a fire type? because of tera
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ok but why were you not saying this earlier I wouldn't have come on here making fun of u if u didn't start with "this really off-meta set destroyed me it must be broken," I honestly don't mind terastilization but I could foresee it getting susepct tested and I know dynamax was banned last gen, which is a similar situation.
 
turd2 said:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Toxapex in Sun: 131-155 (43.2 - 51.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Typhlosion does not need tera to beat Toxapex if stealth rocks are on the field.

You just got beat.
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it was faster than a full speed timid hydreigon and there were no rocks so i wasnt able to throw them back with my cinderace but if that was the case then yeah, then the other player wouldve been better in setting the field in the way they needed but that wasnt the case, that is my problem
 
Link loyan said:
it was faster than a full speed timid hydreigon and there were no rocks so i wasnt able to throw them back with my cinderace but if that was the case then yeah, then the other player wouldve been better in setting the field in the way they needed but that wasnt the case, that is my problem
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why don't you just send replay and if there was literally nothing you could've done I might understand your frustration but in all likelihood you made some mistakes and as I said both players have the opportunity to take advantage of terastilization.
 
OriginalBoat said:
ok but why were you not saying this earlier I wouldn't have come on here making fun of u if u didn't start with "this really off-meta set destroyed me it must be broken," I honestly don't mind terastilization but I could foresee it getting susepct tested and I know dynamax was banned last gen, which is a similar situation.
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Link loyan said:
I need someone to explain to me how tera is still in the metagame, i just had a typhlosion do 62% to my av toxapex with a resisted move, how is that a game in which a better player can play around threats if even the most bulky resists get easily twoshot without hazards or setup or even an ability
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OriginalBoat said:
Dawg its crazy that typhlosion had to have the sun up and be at full health and have specs and be modest and be tera'd to even damage that stupid mon, and he complains about it instead of bringing up how broken toxapex is for tanking anything less.
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OriginalBoat said:
Maybe you should complain about Typhlosion in the UU forum since thats the tier its in lol. Otherwise, I personally hope terastilize stays around forever, so I can continue to make fun of salty players using stupidly broken mons that are wallbroken by shitty starters now. maybe try terastilizing yourself 0.o.
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i never said that the pokemon was broken, that wasnt my point, my point is and always has been that the breaking and sweeping potential of everything just gets upped so much because of tera that even a pokemon with 109 base spatt and timid nature can do 60 with a resisted move to an av pokemon with 142 (iirc) base spedef, yes with a bit of setup but still, without tera that wouldnt be the case
i just feel like everything is fishous rend dracovish because of tera and noone says anything because of a vote that was held 3 months ago
 
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