Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

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This would actually be decently noteworthy for Annihilape because it means it's safe to hit with utility moves such as Taunt to prevent Rest/Bulk Up or debilitate with Status such as Will-o-Wisp without powering up the most dangerous move. Considering Rage Fist and Ape's statline/typing made it most threatening to defensive cores, this increases their counterplay to it by a pretty sizeable margin
wait taunt was affecting it LMFAO
 
Some people are complaining about bans, but you have to realize when something is just running around and killing everything in 1 hit, and has no counters it might be broken. Even if it has 1 counter, that might be enough to get it banned, cause you have to use that 1 mon or just auto lose every game. Its also not smogens fault for things being OP and running around 1 shotting everything. Thats more of game freaks fault, and nerfing stall into the ground. And turning the meta into whoever throws rocks, spikes, into dragon dance or swords dance 1st wins.
 
Considering how close the council vote is I hope it comes quickly, they are voting on the ape and it's probably best to play with the fixed ape a bit before voting
Some mons (like Palafin) were pushed back a week, so if they did the same to Annhiliape, I don't think there would be any harm in that. Being able to pressure it with wisp is a big improvement in therms of counter play, so I hope it does get an extra week.
 
I do get that it's standard and I get why it's standard but it's always going to be incredibly disappointing that Smogon typically bans a Pokemon entirely rather than getting rid of a problematic move or ability and letting it have a niche in lower tiers. I mean, I get they say they can't test if it's just the ability or move but I feel like that isn't 100% true in the sense that you can test the mon with or without the problematic elements to decide what's broken.
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
Sylveon is AMAZING in this meta. A simple specially defensive set walls every special attacker in the tier and puts dragon dance dragonite to bed as an end game sweeper (Hyper voice smacks him behind subs). Highly reccommend using this mon.

Iron Bundle and Chi-Yu can't even dent this thing.
I have been playing with Sylveon and god she is amazing, what are you lads running, she lost Heal Bell and Mystical Fire so im running Hyper Voice/Wish/Protect/Terra Blast with fire to surprise steel types, i havent actuallt managed to surprise anything yet so....
 
Did we ever figure out if Ditto copied the Rage Fist boosts? It seemed like sometimes it did and sometimes it didn't for me...
 

alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Call me uninformed if ya want for it might be true, but doesn't this sound like ur saying new strats lack skill? If anything, making it to the top with these new mons and mechanics takes a bit of skill in itself since they're a new experience. It just so happens that this meta leans towards offense rather than the more balance-centered meta of generations prior, and personally I think thats just fine
Thank you for your input, but please forgive me if I don’t lend much credence to pro-Tera arguments from someone named “DynamaxBestMeta”
 
Considering how close the council vote is I hope it comes quickly, they are voting on the ape and it's probably best to play with the fixed ape a bit before voting
i honestly think they'll vote no ban and give it another week
Funnily enough, Taunt making Rage Fist more powerful is probably very intuitive to a layperson.
that actually is funny lmao
 
i honestly think they'll vote no ban and give it another week
Some mons (like Palafin) were pushed back a week, so if they did the same to Annhiliape, I don't think there would be any harm in that. Being able to pressure it with wisp is a big improvement in therms of counter play, so I hope it does get an extra week.
That seems quite reasonable, yeah. I'm not sure myself if the ape is actually quite banworthy, but an extra week of play with it will definitely solidify how good it is.
 
Why did game greak almost get rid of status curing moves? It seems like aromatherapy isn't in the game any more and only the Blissey line gets heal bell. This is a strange decision from game freak in my eyes. I know they weren't super commonly used, but in the past when I've run Florges in lower tiers, I used it and it did what I wanted. Was this a thing last gen as well?
 
Why did game greak almost get rid of status curing moves? It seems like aromatherapy isn't in the game any more and only the Blissey line gets heal bell. This is a strange decision from game freak in my eyes. I know they weren't super commonly used, but in the past when I've run Florges in lower tiers, I used it and it did what I wanted. Was this a thing last gen as well?
It seems Game Freak wants competitive to be a bloodbath. Maybe they enjoy chaos.
 
Sylveon is AMAZING in this meta. A simple specially defensive set walls every special attacker in the tier and puts dragon dance dragonite to bed as an end game sweeper (Hyper voice smacks him behind subs). Highly reccommend using this mon.

Iron Bundle and Chi-Yu can't even dent this thing.
worth using over scream tail as a wish passer?
 
Out of curiosity does that new item Clear Amulet stop defog as well? Is it one use or just passive.

Because given it's description you could just slap that on a Pult and...
 
I mean, I get they say they can't test if it's just the ability or move but I feel like that isn't 100% true in the sense that you can test the mon with or without the problematic elements to decide what's broken.
In a council vote, it might make sense for there to be more room discretion, but quick bans are mostly avoided outside of times when sudden changes require quick action. That's why Flinch has said this will probably be the last wave of quick bans before moving on to standard suspect test procedures.

When doing a suspect test, testing a move/ability is complicated. It's pretty much impossible to form an opinion about a move outside the context of its strongest abuser -- unless there are multiple `mons present that are constricting the tier based on a shared advantage, and I don't see anybody abusing Rage Fist with Primeape. To be thorough and give folks a chance to make an informed opinion, you basically need to run two suspects (Annihilape with Rage Fist and Annihilape without), which consumes a lot of time and limits the ability to test other things and/or just let the tier stabilize.

And if it is Rage Fist that's broken? Banning it instead of Annihillape ultimately has the same effect: no `Ape in OU, since Rage Fist is (probably) the only thing giving it a niche. Yeah, you're denying randos the opportunity to throw it on a team because they like it or whatever, but bans aren't based on what makes every single player the happiest, they're based on what the competitive players believe creates the best experience for the tier. Folks who just want a team of their favorite `mons all together without concern for the state of the meta are always free to go play AG or whatever.
 
I think we should be very cautionary on banning more than one thing at a time in this very volatile meta. A lot of the mons I see on the radar do have reasonable counterplay available to them, and it’s possible that getting rid of one open up more breathing room for people to adjust. The only thing that I think may be quickbanworthy would be Iron Bundle since there is no defensive counterplay really. The rest feels like things that could get suspect tested instead, or should at least wait to see how the meta adjusts with one more crazy thing banned.

So if, for example, Bundle is banned, or may be easier to deal with things like Palafin or Ape since you don’t need to format your entire team to not auto lose to Bundle anymore. Not saying we shouldn’t ban them later, I just feel banning multiple things at the same time would be a mistake at this early stage of the meta, and it’s not like there’s any rush to see how it all develops.
 
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