Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Finchinator]

People complaining about stall when it was able to fit Dark Clodsire / Skeledirge / Toxapex for Espathra and tended to use Fairy Dondozo + another Dark resist for Chien-Pao are silly.

A lot of bans are addition by subtraction for archetypes. Now offensive teams don’t have to dedicate a slot or guess around Chien-Pao and Espathra respectively. Stall is surely opened up as well, but these Pokemon alone did not necessarily ruin stall teams.

The whole metagame got better and stall is not necessarily at the forefront of that at all. Finally, it’s been less than a day, so complaining and pedaling out some agenda is simply ridiculous.

 

[YNM]

People complaining about stall when it was able to fit Dark Clodsire / Skeledirge / Toxapex for Espathra and tended to use Fairy Dondozo + another Dark resist for Chien-Pao are silly.

A lot of bans are addition by subtraction for archetypes. Now offensive teams don’t have to dedicate a slot or guess around Chien-Pao and Espathra respectively. Stall is surely opened up as well, but these Pokemon alone did not necessarily ruin stall teams.

The whole metagame got better and stall is not necessarily at the forefront of that at all. Finally, it’s been less than a day, so complaining and pedaling out some agenda is simply ridiculous.

I'd also like to add that we have plenty of stall answers currently available in the tier, and multiple strategies can deal with it quite nicely. Mons like Gholdengo and Hatterene are an absolute pain in the ass to face for stall users, combine that with one of the many strong wallbreakers in the meta such as Baxcalibur, Dragonite, Kingambit, Iron Valiant and the rest of the Paradox mons that can exploit Booster Energy, PLUS the possibility to Tera and get an additional boost to your STAB and you'll be able to keep stall teams in check without needing to resort to weird or niche strategies.
And that's only the start, you can add hazards to disrupt stall teams ability to switch in and out, and thanks to Gholdengo they'll never be able to remove them from the field since stall teams are quite notably weak in terms of offense. You can use Cinderace to switch their own hazards, Trick with a Choice Item to render their mons useless and even Orthworm or simply Substitute if you really want more opportunities to set up without worrying about status conditions.
And most importantly of all, fucking Taunt guys, a simple move that destroys stall but that seemingly everyone always keeps forgetting about. I'm not saying that stall teams are trash and they can sometimes be annoying to deal with, but seriously, the reality is that y'all aren't even trying hard enough in the first place. As Finch said, while Pao and Espathra were around everyone had to pack a goddamn check to them in the form of Pex, Tera Dark Clodsire, Skeledirge, Dondozo and defensive Tusk, and now that we have a more flexible teambuilding process you complain about defensive mons being a problem? Come on.

 

[LoseToRU?]

Big shout out to the OU council for the Espa QB!
Y'all are really focused on making this gen work and it shows.

 

[I am New]

Stored Power has pretty much just been a gimmick, I think. Espathra just made it go from a funny gimmick that's not actually all that reliable to a gimmick that turns games into coin flips on guessing the Tera type right and hoping you break its substitute fast enough. I'd say emu-less Stored Power is uncompetitive in the same way Hyper Beam is. Sure, it's really strong, but the use case for it is the opponent not knowing better and letting you use it.

EDIT: Oh and Magearna made it work too but Magearna always gets banned so eh

polteagesit is a good stored power user and you cant forget they mighty swoobat.
ps: Powertrip corvi

 

[Soiramio3000]

can someone name a reliable way to beat amoonguss which does NOT include:

• a fire-type pokemon
• terastylization
• some pokemon that is barely functional in OU like gallade

I am asking because now that espartha and chien-pao got banned, fire seems to be its only real weakness left.
psychic ice and flying don't see that much usage and this thing has 3 differnt forms of healing at once.


edit: you know what,now that I think of it, fire barely counts as a good example of a weakness, I did the math and it seems that the only way to get an OHKO on this thing with a fire attack is to either set up either terastylize or use a damage boosting item.

a fiery dance from a modest nature 252 EVs iron moth with no set-up vs amoonguss with 252 HP EVs and 84 SP.DEF EVs deals a maximum of 90.27% damage so it is NOT an OHKO.

if this pokemon could be banned,that would be great.

 

[Ruft]

can someone name a reliable way to beat amoonguss which does NOT include:

• a fire-type pokemon
• terastylization
• some pokemon that is barely functional in OU like gallade

I am asking because now that espartha and chien-pao got banned, fire seems to be its only real weakness left.
psychic ice and flying don't see that much usage and this thing has 3 differnt forms of healing at once.

 

[Ehmcee]

can someone name a reliable way to beat amoonguss which does NOT include:

• a fire-type pokemon
• terastylization
• some pokemon that is barely functional in OU like gallade

I am asking because now that espartha and chien-pao got banned, fire seems to be its only real weakness left.
psychic ice and flying don't see that much usage and this thing has 3 differnt forms of healing at once.

Gholdengo is probably the largest counter to Amoonguss you could have, immune to spore, poison moves as well as resisting it's grass stab and having access to reliable recovery.

Otherwise, you also have:

- Baxcalibur (Either DD or CB)
- Brave Bird Corviknight
- Specs Pelipper (usually reserved for rain, but some non-rain teams have been surprisingly good with it)
- Kingambit

More niche stuff like Tinkaton, Iron Jugulis and Gallade also exist.

In general most steels match up well against Amoonguss simply by being able to resist both stabs.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

can someone name a reliable way to beat amoonguss which does NOT include:

• a fire-type pokemon
• terastylization
• some pokemon that is barely functional in OU like gallade

I am asking because now that espartha and chien-pao got banned, fire seems to be its only real weakness left.
psychic ice and flying don't see that much usage and this thing has 3 differnt forms of healing at once.

call an emergency meeting
hatterene can switch in on spore and threaten it if you give her a tiny bit of speed investment, pelipper ratios it with hurricane, baxcalibur icicle crashes it, brave bird corv 1v1s it with little effort if you let it spore something else, and most importantly, it can't touch gholdengo

 

[Soiramio3000]

this is going to need choice specs in order to work but okay. thanks.

 

[ant4456]

I'm using this as a copypasta, this is amazing

i had fun writing it, glad people enjoyed it

 

[Soiramio3000]

call an emergency meeting
hatterene can switch in on spore and threaten it if you give her a tiny bit of speed investment, pelipper ratios it with hurricane, baxcalibur icicle crashes it, brave bird corv 1v1s it with little effort if you let it spore something else, and most importantly, it can't touch gholdengo

I don't think that corviknight can do much anything against it.
a corviknight with zero attack investment can do a maximum 62.5% damage to an amongus with bold nature and 172 def EVs and 252 hp EVs.
since it can't get a OHKO that means that amoonguss can simply put corviknight to sleep switch and get back almost half the damage corviknight dealt.
not to mention that amoonguss has synthesis making it even harder for corviknight to beat it.

 

[Athyestic]

I don't think that corviknight can do much anything against it.
a corviknight with zero attack investment can do a maximum 62.5% damage to an amongus with bold nature and 172 def EVs and 252 hp EVs.
since it can't get a OHKO that means that amoonguss can simply put corviknight to sleep switch and get back almost half the damage corviknight dealt.
not to mention that amoonguss has synthesis making it even harder for corviknight to beat it.

The idea is that if something else is spored, Corviknight can pretty consistently switch into it. +People don’t often run Synthesis on Amoonguss (I do, but that’s preference).

this is going to need choice specs in order to work but okay. thanks.

What is Amogus doing to Gholdengo even if it doesn’t get ohkoed? Clicking Giga Drain for 10%? The worst that’ll happen is you’ll get hit with a stomping tantrum for like 30% and then you’ll 2hko it.

 

[Cheryl.]

this is going to need choice specs in order to work but okay. thanks.

Gholdengo's most common set is Nasty Plot which sets up for free against Amoonguss and will break past it even at only +2 SpA, even Foul Play isn't going to do much versus Gholdengo who can Recover off the damage anyway.

 

[Beaf Cultist]

I am asking because now that espartha and chien-pao got banned, fire seems to be its only real weakness left.
psychic ice and flying don't see that much usage and this thing has 3 differnt forms of healing at once.

glad to see OU players finally having to use their brains when teambuilding. proof of a good meta fr

 

[1LDK]

If you wanna counter A M O N G U S, first you need to see in the team preview
"what's the least useful Pokémon in my team against his team"
After then, wait until amoongus hits the field, most of them will 100% spore the next turn unless you have something specific like a grass/poison weak mon)
here, you make the least useful mon the spore receiver, and now he can't spore anymore until your sleepy mon wakes up

with that in mind, stuff like Corviknight, fire types, gholdengo, and psychic types can scare him out, special mention goes to Iron Valiant, who also shits on Ting Lu and Rotom Wash, both common partners for it

and while not precisely a counter, grass types like Meowscarada, Breloom, other amoongus and the status immune Garganacl, are immune to spore, thus, making them a good emergency switch in

 

[ppev]

this is going to need choice specs in order to work but okay. thanks.

Here you go!

 

[658Greninja]

can someone name a reliable way to beat amoonguss which does NOT include:

• a fire-type pokemon
• terastylization
• some pokemon that is barely functional in OU like gallade

I am asking because now that espartha and chien-pao got banned, fire seems to be its only real weakness left.
psychic ice and flying don't see that much usage and this thing has 3 differnt forms of healing at once.


edit: you know what,now that I think of it, fire barely counts as a good example of a weakness, I did the math and it seems that the only way to get an OHKO on this thing with a fire attack is to either set up either terastylize or use a damage boosting item.

a fiery dance from a modest nature 252 EVs iron moth with no set-up vs amoonguss with 252 HP EVs and 84 SP.DEF EVs deals a maximum of 90.27% damage so it is NOT an OHKO.

if this pokemon could be banned,that would be great.

Bro asking to ban Amoonguss when Garg is running around

To answer the question,

Gholdengo
Taunt Corv
Baxcalibur
Specs Peli
Sub-Wisp Pult
Zone
the OG Weavile (relevant cause Pao is gone)
Hazards
Knock
Sacking a mon for Spore

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Sacking a mon for Spore

if you're running resttalk dozo you don't even need to sack a mon, just let dozo absorb the spore

 

[kosecant]

can someone name a reliable way to beat amoonguss which does NOT include:

• a fire-type pokemon
• terastylization
• some pokemon that is barely functional in OU like gallade

I am asking because now that espartha and chien-pao got banned, fire seems to be its only real weakness left.
psychic ice and flying don't see that much usage and this thing has 3 differnt forms of healing at once.


edit: you know what,now that I think of it, fire barely counts as a good example of a weakness, I did the math and it seems that the only way to get an OHKO on this thing with a fire attack is to either set up either terastylize or use a damage boosting item.

a fiery dance from a modest nature 252 EVs iron moth with no set-up vs amoonguss with 252 HP EVs and 84 SP.DEF EVs deals a maximum of 90.27% damage so it is NOT an OHKO.

if this pokemon could be banned,that would be great.

Bro said he wanted advice on beating amoongus and then promptly listed that everything it’s weak to is bad lmao

If OHKOing a wall is your goal in every game you play you need to learn some patience. 90% is an absolutely crippling amount of damage to basically every wall in the game. Unironically go play stall and learn how to make better long term plays in your games, it’s an incredibly valuable skill in Pokémon

 

[Mishra]

Smogon trying really hard to make stall the go to strat again. Record number of unaware pokemon in the tier, ban anything that makes the fat walls cry. If defensive pokemon can't just block everything, lets see what's the next offensive pokmon in the tier to be banned.

If OHKOing a wall is your goal in every game you play you need to learn some patience. 90% is an absolutely crippling amount of damage to basically every wall in the game. Unironically go play stall and learn how to make better long term plays in your games, it’s an incredibly valuable skill in Pokémon

A wall that has access to recovery, spore, and the regenerator ability so if it doesn't get one shot, it gets to lock down a pokemon, heal up and do it again.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Smogon trying really hard to make stall the go to strat again. Record number of unaware pokemon in the tier, ban anything that makes the fat walls cry. If defensive pokemon can't just block everything, lets see what's the next offensive pokmon in the tier to be banned.



A wall that has access to recovery, spore, and the regenerator ability so if it doesn't get one shot, it gets to lock down a pokemon, heal up and do it again.

Smogon would need to ban Game Freak to make stall good this gen.

 

[1LDK]

Smogon trying really hard to make stall the go to strat again. Record number of unaware pokemon in the tier, ban anything that makes the fat walls cry. If defensive pokemon can't just block everything, lets see what's the next offensive pokmon in the tier to be banned.

Patience, Garganacl is getting suspect, the old woman with toxapex like hair in the street who took 1000 dollars off me said so, I hope that is not a scam

 

[Mishra]

Patience, Garganacl is getting suspect, the old woman with toxapex like hair in the street who took 1000 dollars off me said so, I hope that is not a scam

It's Smogon. If there is something they like, such as a good defensive pokemon or weather wars from Gen V, they will go out of there way to make sure it stays.

 

[Soiramio3000]

Bro said he wanted advice on beating amoongus and then promptly listed that everything it’s weak to is bad lmao

If OHKOing a wall is your goal in every game you play you need to learn some patience. 90% is an absolutely crippling amount of damage to basically every wall in the game. Unironically go play stall and learn how to make better long term plays in your games, it’s an incredibly valuable skill in Pokémon

if a pokemon requires overly specific counters then it is considered anti-competitive because it centralizes the metagame around it.
so of course I am going to mention the tiny ammount of answers that I could think at the time as not good.

also 90% damage is not enough when you are dealing with a wall that has access to spore.

the "patience" to wake up is a luxury that isn't always available.
sleep is a very powerfull mechanic,why do you think that the sleep clause exists?

 

[Beaf Cultist]

if a pokemon requires overly specific counters then it is considered anti-competitive because it centralizes the metagame around it.
so of course I am going to mention the tiny ammount of answers that I could think at the time as not good.

known overly specific amoonguss counter gholdengo