Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]

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:sv/sylveon:
D -> Higher idk realistically like a B- but any raise would be nice

Alright, been spamming this mon for decent success on both ladder and ourlt so figured it's about time to nominate it.

The set:

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Yawn

What does it do?


Sylveon's main appeal is wish passing. There are a lot of pokémon that appreciate Sylveon's Wish support, such as Tusk, Rotom and Ting-Lu, due to otherwise lacking a recovery move. Additionally, Sylveon has quite a bit of defensive utility, checking any special variant of Dragapult and Iron Valiant, as well as helping a lot against Walking Wake, which can't break through it without Specs sets and can get walled even with Specs under Sun if Sylveon teras. It also makes great use of Yawn letting it prevent attempts to abuse it by setting up, being particularly useful against Volcarona.

Why not Scream Tail?

Scream Tail is another Pokémon that can Wish Pass, has Encore for stopping setup attempts and possesses much greater speed and physical bulk, so why not use it instead? Mainly, Scream Tail is way too passive. Unlike Sylveon, which has a respectable 110 Special Attack and can use Pixilate boosted Hyper Voices (which can be annoying to switch into with hazards up, especially factoring in Yawn), Scream Tail has to use a Dazzling Gleam coming off of 65 Special Attack, meaning it cant threaten the things it checks nearly as easily. Additionally, Scream Tail boasts a Ghost weakness, meaning it cannot act as a check to Dragapult at all. Encore can also be worse than Yawn in many scenarios, as things like CM Iron Valiant can just Moonblast on the encore and muscle through it regardless and it cannot encore Pokémon that boost their speed effectively.

It is worth noting that Scream Tail might still be better than it is given credit for on the VR, seen as it still possesses Wish and some amazing qualities that Sylveon doesn't have access to, but I don't have nearly as much experience with the mon.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1825080242
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1825064595
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1823114959-wlyoo7baa7topc53iow6pwyknquy0y2pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1823099634-xsqapsz5nblytvsip726mpw5qx8ji0tpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1822219273-xit0hdwe7i3sfkhmjtrhux1mr6p2tadpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1825347076-crunajlrduxxbhlxq6opqdmkzdbcnqkpw
 

Baloor

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while i won't spoil on where sylveon is likely to end up on the next vr update i will post my opinion on it because there is a lot of disagreement in the community regarding it.

while i personally do agree with a slight raise of sylveon, b and even b- are way too high. while it doesnt have an interesting niche when looking at its viable moves in cm hyper voice dkiss stored power etc... compared to a similar pokemon in scream tail, i do not think this is enough to warrant this drastic of a raise. while sylveon does have some traits that are pretty fun compared to its competition, there is not a lot of reason to use sylveon over scream tail other than then its a mon thats more fun to use. personally, i think scream tail has pretty safely risen to mid b ranks and i feel sylveon is a few steps below scream when in comes to overall effectiveness in its niche. look at the b and b- ranks, while some mons obiv have fallen out of favor and will drop, most of them are realistically leagues better than sylveon. I find scream tail is a much better fit in these ranks and has proven a lot more on ladder and in tours recently as an ou viable pokemon in and outside of sun while sylveon is more of gimmicky fun mon that can be effective given the right match ups. yes, scream tail is a bit more passive but it's not really a momentum sink at all given wish and its several utility options such as encore while having a respectable speed stat with no investment for a mon typically fulfilling a defensive role making it actually rather threatening. I think a rise to C is fine personally with its rise in popularity on ladder but there is still a long way to go before sylveon can be a convincing b rank pokemon.

tldr: scream tail performs the role more effectively, sylveon hasn't made enough of a metagame impact to warrant such as drastic rise. has some cool traits such as being more offensively orientated which make it good under very particular circumstances while being a popular ladder pick atm does justify a small raise.
 
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1LDK

Trial by fury
is a Top Team Rater
I disagree, hard disagree, Sylveon does have more offensive precense that scream tail

110 SpA combined with Pixelate Hyper Voice hits hard, AND ESPECIALY through substitute, scream tail cannot

Also special mention goes to terra blast to lure stuff

I think B- is a good place for it, remember that is a check to almost every single special attacker ever
 
My 2 cents

I disagree, hard disagree, Sylveon does have more offensive precense that scream tail

110 SpA combined with Pixelate Hyper Voice hits hard, AND ESPECIALY through substitute, scream tail cannot
Baloor never said it didn't, yes Pixelate Hyper Voice is a very good move and Sylveon has far superior offensive capabilities than Scream Tail, obviously. But that alone isn't enough to push it so far above other Wish passers. Sylveon has a near complete lack of support moves outside of Wish, it really just has Yawn, it's sort of a one-trick kitty.

Also special mention goes to terra blast to lure stuff
But this isn't some major boon for Sylveon, almost anything can do this.

I think B- is a good place for it, remember that is a check to almost every single special attacker ever
Yes it is a good special tank but so are the pink blobs, Florges, Umbreon, and Wo-Chien and yet they are hanging in the C or lower ranks as well. Also Sylveon really struggles to deal with some very important special attackers like Gholdengo, Skeledirge, and Iron Moth, it really isn't some sort of blanket special check in OU and that's not to mention the Kingambits, Clodsires, and Toxapexes that are largely unconcerned by it. Sylveon is good, it's a cleric that can really threaten Great Tusk and the dragons, but I don't think it is a whole letter ranking above the other Wish users.
 
Yeah understandable tbh I will admit that b- is definetly biased given how much i love the mon (was trying it in gen 8 lmao) but I still maintain that it deserves at least C.

Feel like the offensive presence is being very underrated; with just hyper voice it's barely a difference, but factoring in hazards and how much switch ins yawn forces and it can be a bit of a pain to switch into. Yawn in general feels like a huge boon in such a hazard centric metagame. Also the better mu against CM (and taunt) variants of Valiant and every pult set.
 
Here are a few noms I got.

:Quaquaval:->B-

Honestly, this thing feels super underwhelming to play against and face. It also does not particularly like the addition of Walking Wake since it kind of was carried by a lack of water resists in the tier. Bulk Up sets also have some pretty big 4MSS. You want Ice Spinner for things like Water Absorb Clod and Amoongus, yet you want Roost for the set to be able to effectively punish offense. Taunt is also desired to help you set up especially on the unaware mons in the tier. Every single time I see this mon, it just ends up not performing that well. Its usage also is falling off a cliff and it is gonna drop into UU pretty soon. I think a drop is pretty fair.
Quaquaval:->B-

Yeah unfortunately I gotta agree 100% with your nom. It can work insanely well or it just does nothing. Its too feast or famine for this meta right now, as things that punish it are all over the place. Plus 4mss isn't helping it. Like it can work well but it's very inconsistent, in fact a little too inconsistent with all the unaware walls and wake/pex everywhere. Like it is pretty good on shed tail teams as shed passing kinda helps it work around its problems, and I think it does have some merit on certain teams that can cater to it but sometimes its just dead weight when it doesn't work. That being said when it does work its really good, but its too feast or famine at the moment with all the tera unaware walls and pex running around. Maybe in the future it can find a niche if pex drops somehow or tera gets banned someday... For now, it can go terrorize uu and possibly get banned there as this mon is definitely built to destroy uu, so at least it will be able to do that. Also doesn't help that we don't have good sticky web users like ribombee and shuckle as of right now so that really hurts too.

I kinda just wanted to make this mon work, but it can only do so much... Sigh...
 
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Lily

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It's been a while since this was updated, understandable with SPL going on. I have nominations to cover. Lots of stuff here that I'll do my best to substantiate in short form so it remains readable.

Rises
Kingambit A+ -> S-/S: Sure, Gambit struggles a bit with Tusk being the best mon in the tier. That's all though. There is nothing else it struggles with. I used 5 Kingambits in my 5 SPL games and I firmly believe it is the 2nd best Pokemon in the tier behind Great Tusk. It is so, so difficult to drop it from offense teams because you just give up so much offensive & defensive utility if you don't have its ridiculous bulk & nuclear Sucker Punch, to say nothing of how silly Supreme Overlord is. Players have gotten better at finding workarounds to the Tusk problem; the good old SV OU handshake where each Tusk chips the other to 20% works fine, but we've seen stuff like Liqudation Iron Valiant, Will-O-Wisp Cinderace and Mixed Garchomp that just brings Tusk into Gambit range soooo easily. It is the most constraining thing in the builder IMO and its ranking should reflect that.

Volcarona A -> A+: As people began experimenting more with Tera types like Ground, Fairy and even Dragon, Volcarona just got better and better. It is honestly pretty broken and is more than likely banworthy, but if that doesn't happen it should be a bit higher on the VR to reflect its dominant builder presence.

Amoonguss A- -> A: Generally more effective with less Gholdengo around, but has been steadily ticking up ever since the Chien-Pao and Chi-Yu bans. Amoonguss is a great check to lots of strong mons like Garganacl, Iron Valiant, Meowscarada and Breloom, which can all be really tough to handle otherwise, and sleep is broken as always. I think it's still a bit flawed in that it can be pretty passive after it Spores something but it has a ton going for it and had an insane SPL winrate to boot. Pretty great mon overall.

Meowscarada B+ -> A+: Yes, all the way. Meowscarada is incredible. It is so versatile and effective. Knock Off is so annoying to switch into, Flower Trick is incredible STAB, its Speed tier is absolutely beautiful in this metagame filled with Roaring Moon, Cinderace, Greninja and Iron Valiant, Spikes are an enormous asset, and it can easily tech for bad matchups with stuff like Low Kick for Kingambit, Play Rough for Hydreigon and Sucker Punch for Dragapult. Lead sets are great, Overgrow pivot sets are great, CB Protean is great, Protean pivot is great. It's a super useful mon that solves so many teambuilding issues and managed to burrow its way into the top 10 most used Pokemon in SPL ahead of high-rank threats like Garganacl, Ting-Lu and Roaring Moon. It is easily one of the best Pokemon in the tier IMO and it should go to at least A, but I firmly believe in A+.

Slowking B+ -> A-: To be clear, Slowking sucks. But weather teams are really good and Slowking takes a dump on those. It has some ok defensive utility beyond that and can be a nuisance with Future Sight backed up by stuff like Meow, Tusk, Gambit. You need to be very careful when building with it bc it's insanely passive and fodder for a ton of mons, but good Slowking teams have proven themselves to be effective.

Azumarill B -> B+: Encore has breathed new life into Azu to some extent and it's got new utility on offense as a way to stave off Speed boosting Walking Wake. It still has the same issues it always had but it's nothing immovable. Overall a pretty solid mon.

Baxcalibur B -> A/A+: The rising star. Honestly one of the most broken mons in the tier. There are far too many examples of Baxcalibur fucking the whole club up and it's not hard to see why, it's just impossible to defensively counter this thing shy of like, physdef Tera Fairy Garganacl, which still isn't even THAT good against it. I abused the hell out of this mon in SPL and encourage everyone to do the same bc good lord it is ridiculous, imo the 2nd most banworthy mon in the tier behind Volcarona.

Hydreigon B- -> A-: Super underranked mon, another rising star of the tier for sure. SubNP is really good, NP 3atks is solid, and rocks sets have proven themselves decent too. Has a lot of depth to its game thanks to its great coverage so nothing is really a safe initial pivot save for Ting-Lu. Could possibly even go to A but that's too much of a jump for now

Sandy Shocks C+ -> B/B+: Decent mon, I think it's too reliant on Tera to go much higher but it proved itself as a fine option for a variety of teams that's very tough to switch into and could stand to rise for that. Pairs really well with Walking Wake on sun to take a dump on the Storm Drainers and Slowking. I've not used it much myself so I have limited things to say but it is pretty good.

these guys D/UR -> B+: Psyterrain is real and something to be respected, and these guys (alongside Hatt) fuel it. It saw a lot of SPL use and is popular on the ladder too. The playstyle is more than a one-and-done cheese team, too, with options like Volcarona, Baxcalibur and Hawlucha all proving they can make great use of the terrain's effects. It's pretty good as far as hyper offense goes.

Salamence D -> C/C+: Experimented with this mon a bit in SPL, it's really hard to switch into and Intimidate + its typing lets it act as a great check to stuff like Great Tusk, Cinderace, Meowscarada, Breloom and situationally even Floatzel. Here's the set I used:

Salamence @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- Roost

Highly recommend giving it a try, the Speed/power difference it has over Dragonite alongside the physical bulk gives it a very real niche!

I'll make a followup post with stuff that should drop later on, ty for reading o7
 

Ruft

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The long-awaited VR update is here!

Since it has been two months (which is nearly half of the tier's age) and many metagame changes (including the bans of Chien-Pao and Espathra and the release of five new Pokemon, taking place throughout 9 weeks of SPL and 7 rounds of OST) since the last update, we voted on the position of every Pokemon on the rankings (and more). As a result, there are more Pokemon that have moved in the rankings than that have not. Also, we made D rank into C-. Furthermore, I've already updated the OP (with new sprites too
).

Without further ado, here is the list of all the changes to the VR:

New

to A-
to A
to A-
to C+
to UR

Rises

from A+ to S
from A+ to S-
from A to S-
from B+ to A-
from B+ to A-
from B+ to A-
from B to A
from B to A-
from B to B+
from B to B+
from B- to A-
from B- to A-
from B- to B
from B- to B
from C+ to B
from C+ to B-
from C to B
from C to B-
from C to B-
from C to B-
from C- to B-
from C- to B-
from C- to C
from C- to C
from C- to C
from C- to C
from C- to C
from UR to B
from UR to B-
from UR to C
from UR to C-

Drops

from S to A+
from S- to A+
from A to A-
from A to A-
from A to A-
from A to B+
from B+ to B
from B+ to B-
from B to B-
from B to C+
from B to C+
from B to C
from B- to C+
from B- to C-
from C+ to C
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR

Because of the sheer number of rises and drops and the amount of time and metagame changes since the last update, I will refrain from trying to explain every single rise and drop. Instead, this thread will be open for questions about these VR changes for a couple of days. I encourage anyone who is sufficiently knowledgeable about the current metagame to help with answering these questions. Do refrain from asking about things other people have already asked about. Also, try to focus on the upper rankings moreso than on the lower ones, since, as per usual, the lower you go the murkier the rankings get. Keep in mind that you may be able to find an answer by looking it up in this or the metagame discussion thread. Replays from SPL and OST can also prove to be valuable resources, as you can watch the metagame unfold in some of the most high-level games. Furthermore, Lily, a succesful SPL player herself, made a very informative post above this one that does a great job at explaining some of the rises.
 
1. Is Hax just utterly outclassed by every other dragon? Admittedly I haven’t had much of a chance to use it, but I would’ve imagined that Mold Breaker would give it some niche with the Unaware bros and Earth Eater Orthworm running around

2. Any reason Azu rose other than Wake’s existence? Band has done what it’s always done but BD has been inconsistent from what I’ve seen
 

1LDK

Trial by fury
is a Top Team Rater
Why did Gholdengo and Garganacl fell?

Why didn't Iron treads and Quaquaval dropped into the total abyss, or at least C?
 
Why did Gholdengo and Garganacl fell?

Why didn't Iron treads and Quaquaval dropped into the total abyss, or at least C?
I agree with Quaq dropping more since finally people are finally using water resists on their teams so it won't sweep anyone now, while I have seen a lot more Treads than before.
 
What's the reasoning behind Pawmot, Tinkaton, Toedscruel rise and Iron Hands, Slither Wing and Hippowdon fall ? Also curious about Abomasnow's niche, is it about snow teams or does it check something in particular ?
 

Ruft

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1. Is Hax just utterly outclassed by every other dragon? Admittedly I haven’t had much of a chance to use it, but I would’ve imagined that Mold Breaker would give it some niche with the Unaware bros and Earth Eater Orthworm running around
There are generally better ways of dealing with Unaware users for offense, like Spikes and teching Taunt on Pokemon like Iron Valiant and Roaring Moon and Encore on Pokemon like Dragonite and Azumarill.
2. Any reason Azu rose other than Wake’s existence? Band has done what it’s always done but BD has been inconsistent from what I’ve seen
As Lily stated above, Encore has done a good job of breathing new life into Belly Drum sets. Assault Vest has also popped up here and there.
Why did Gholdengo and Garganacl fell?
I kinda see the justification for Gholdengo dropping, but why to A+ instead of S-?
I'd say Gholdengo and Garganacl fall victim to the faster, more offensive pace the metagame is at right now compared to last update. Gholdengo tends to get punished by Kingambit, while Garganacl dislikes the uptick in Taunt users and Shed Tail. Both are also vulnerable to Spikes. A+ is still excellent though, most of us just don't think they're at the same level as Dragapult, which has multiple threatening sets with differing answers, and Volcarona, which can similarly tear through a significant amount of teams with the right set/Tera type.
Why didn't Iron treads and Quaquaval dropped into the total abyss, or at least C?
Both still have some decent niches. Iron Treads offers role compression with Stealth Rock (alongside Steel Beam to keep it up) and Rapid Spin, alongside a very useful Ground and Steel typing. Quaquaval can clean unprepared teams and can check the major threat that is Kingambit.
why did scream tail rise so high? is it’s utility becoming more noticeable and practical as time goes on?

also, was pex at all considered for any movement?
Scream Tail is a nice defensive answer to the wide range of threatening Dragon-types, especially in sun.
Toxapex had a few A- and one B+ vote, but most people voted to keep it in A. It remains a solid check to threats like Volcarona and Iron Valiant.
What's the reasoning behind Pawmot, Tinkaton, Toedscruel rise and Iron Hands, Slither Wing and Hippowdon fall ? Also curious about Abomasnow's niche, is it about snow teams or does it check something in particular ?
Pawmot has seen some decent success with an offensive Life Orb set that still has Revival Blessing to bring back dangerous teammates like Kingambit and Volcarona. Tinkaton offers a unique defensive profile with good utility in Knock Off and Stealth Rock that certain teams may be looking for. Toedscruel has the unique niche of being able to get up hazards against Hatterene teams, which can ruin certain gameplans (think Psychic Terrain + Focus Sash spam). Iron Hands, Slither Wing and Hippowdon fell off in usage because there are just not a lot of good reasons to use them over other more appealing options. Abomasnow is a viable snow + Aurora Veil setter for offensive teams featuring (Ice Body) Baxcalibur.
 

Ruft

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curious as to why no garchomp rise to A? Mixed chomp has been incredible and there have been dozens of posts advocating for a raise to A and even A+
Mixed Garchomp is great offensively for a Stealth Rock setter but it's very lacking defensively. It's pretty much a glass cannon, and 102 Speed isn't what it used to be.
What has made Brute Bonnete rise all the way to B?
Loaded Dice Bullet Seed + Sucker Punch + Spore + Fire Tera Blast/Close Combat makes it a big threat under sun with Protosynthesis boosting Attack.
 
Really curious about what made Iron Thorns rise. I get the feeling with Great Tusk and a lot of other mons to threaten it [Walking Wake, Greninja, etc.], a requirement to Tera for coverage against Ground-types and a faster, more offensive meta likely unsuited for its DD tricks [which themselves would be outdone by Roaring Moon] it would've dropped straight out of the VR.

Also quite curious as to why Toedscruel and Iron Jugulis rose and why Dondozo dropped.
 

Srn

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Why isn't arboliva even ranked :changry: You can justify ranking abomasnow but not arboliva??? I nommed it to B+ in a time with chien pao and espathra in the tier, when psychic terrain teams were just starting to pick up, and when rotom-w/garg usage was at an all time high. Since then, Pao and espathra are banned, psyspam is standard, and rotom-w/garg have calmed down a bit. Arboliva is best vs more defensive teams and helpful vs psyspam, so I can agree that its overall a bit worse, but it should absolutely be ranked.

Also, why did iron hands drop to C+? In a faster paced meta where HO is so common and strong, it has great matchups vs big threats like baxcalibur, kingambit, meowscarada, and roaring moon. Yes it struggles with tusk but no more than kingambit does, and we all know gambit's rise was well deserved.
 
Last edited:
Really curious about what made Iron Thorns rise. I get the feeling with Great Tusk and a lot of other mons to threaten it [Walking Wake, Greninja, etc.], a requirement to Tera for coverage against Ground-types and a faster, more offensive meta likely unsuited for its DD tricks [which themselves would be outdone by Roaring Moon] it would've dropped straight out of the VR.

Also quite curious as to why Toedscruel and Iron Jugulis rose and why Dondozo dropped.
Iron jugs rose cause Specs is a strong set that has very spammable STABs that can be hard to switch into. Stuff like Kingambit tends to get owned by its colorful coverage. It's pretty great in E-Terrain too since it gets the speed boost making it even more scary as it can outspeed other fast mons like Dragapult. It's speed tier in general is pretty solid.
 
Also quite curious as to why Toedscruel and Iron Jugulis rose and why Dondozo dropped.
on Toed - guaranteed sleep on something in a tier with Gholdengo, Garg, and Hatt is a really valuable niche. and mycelium might is more of a sidegrade than a direct nerf, since going last guarantees you get the next turn of sleep and can act accordingly.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1805063127-xi1bk89zhpyilnse93848nige4yons6pw Toed put 3-4 things to sleep during this game, including a Hatterene, which would normally be the switch into status moves. I think that's where most of his viability lies, though having rapid spin and spikes helps too. B- feels about right to me, if a bit generous.
 
The long-awaited VR update is here!

Since it has been two months (which is nearly half of the tier's age) and many metagame changes (including the bans of Chien-Pao and Espathra and the release of five new Pokemon, taking place throughout 9 weeks of SPL and 7 rounds of OST) since the last update, we voted on the position of every Pokemon on the rankings (and more). As a result, there are more Pokemon that have moved in the rankings than that have not. Also, we made D rank into C-. Furthermore, I've already updated the OP (with new sprites too
).

Without further ado, here is the list of all the changes to the VR:

New

to A-
to A
to A-
to C+
to UR

Rises

from A+ to S
from A+ to S-
from A to S-
from B+ to A-
from B+ to A-
from B+ to A-
from B to A
from B to A-
from B to B+
from B to B+
from B- to A-
from B- to A-
from B- to B
from B- to B
from C+ to B
from C+ to B-
from C to B
from C to B-
from C to B-
from C to B-
from C- to B-
from C- to B-
from C- to C
from C- to C
from C- to C
from C- to C
from C- to C
from UR to B
from UR to B-
from UR to C
from UR to C-

Drops

from S to A+
from S- to A+
from A to A-
from A to A-
from A to A-
from A to B+
from B+ to B
from B+ to B-
from B to B-
from B to C+
from B to C+
from B to C
from B- to C+
from B- to C-
from C+ to C
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C to C-
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR
from C- to UR

Because of the sheer number of rises and drops and the amount of time and metagame changes since the last update, I will refrain from trying to explain every single rise and drop. Instead, this thread will be open for questions about these VR changes for a couple of days. I encourage anyone who is sufficiently knowledgeable about the current metagame to help with answering these questions. Do refrain from asking about things other people have already asked about. Also, try to focus on the upper rankings moreso than on the lower ones, since, as per usual, the lower you go the murkier the rankings get. Keep in mind that you may be able to find an answer by looking it up in this or the metagame discussion thread. Replays from SPL and OST can also prove to be valuable resources, as you can watch the metagame unfold in some of the most high-level games. Furthermore, Lily, a succesful SPL player herself, made a very informative post above this one that does a great job at explaining some of the rises.
What caused a dozo drop as well as breloom?
 

Finchinator

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Really curious about what made Iron Thorns rise. I get the feeling with Great Tusk and a lot of other mons to threaten it [Walking Wake, Greninja, etc.], a requirement to Tera for coverage against Ground-types and a faster, more offensive meta likely unsuited for its DD tricks [which themselves would be outdone by Roaring Moon] it would've dropped straight out of the VR.
Think that it just saw some use on screens teams and with Tera it is good at nabbing free turns. Still a pretty mediocre option, but it is viable enough to be where it stands.
Also quite curious as to why Toedscruel and Iron Jugulis rose and why Dondozo dropped.
As Ruft said:
Toedscruel has the unique niche of being able to get up hazards against Hatterene teams, which can ruin certain gameplans (think Psychic Terrain + Focus Sash spam)
As for Iron Jugs, it is very sold with Taunt 3A Booster Energy on offense and can force progress. Dondozo's passivity is punished right now, but it remains good on Stall at the very least. Still ok otherwise, but exploitable.
Why isn't arboliva even ranked :changry: You can justify ranking abomasnow but not arboliva??? I nommed it to B+ in a time with chien pao and espathra in the tier, when psychic terrain teams were just starting to pick up, and when rotom-w/garg usage was at an all time high. Since then, Pao and espathra are banned, psyspam is standard, and rotom-w/garg have calmed down a bit. Arboliva is best vs more defensive teams, so I can agree that its overall a bit worse, but it should absolutely be ranked.
I do not really disagree with your logic; I will discuss it and include it on the slate next time.
Also, why did iron hands drop to C+? In a faster paced meta where HO is so common and strong, it has great matchups vs big threats like baxcalibur, kingambit, meowscarada, and roaring moon. Yes it struggles with tusk but no more than kingambit does, and we all know gambit's rise was well deserved.
I think the Kingambit comp is hard as it is a much more dynamic offensive presence and practical defensive stopper. Iron Hands is harder to fit with a lot of options clashing with it and this reduces its viability, but it is still good when used -- I think the metagame will trend well for it in the future, but I do not see it much right now.
 
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