Resource SV OU Viability Ranking Thread [ UPDATE: POST #751 ]

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Finchinator

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B- -> B or higher

I feel Fire-type Paldean Tauros is better than everything currently in B- right now. It has direct competition with Skeledirge as a defensive Fire, but having access to Intimidate, Bulk Up, Body Press, Will-o-Wisp, and a solid Fire/Fighting typing gives it a solid physically defensive presence in its own set of ways. It's one of the tier's best Chien-Pao answers, unlike Skeledirge, and naturally handles other mons such as Roaring Moon, Dragonite (especially Tera Normal Dragonite), Kingambit, and Breloom (watch for Spore). Tera-Flying only expands this mon's checklist, annoying the hell out of the Paradox Donphans, Garchomp, Quaquaval, and Ting-Lu. The Grounds can't touch it with Earthquake / Headlong Rush and it now resists Great Tusk's Close Combat and only neutrally hit by Aqua Step. Being significantly faster than Skeledirge with its Base 100 Speed is also notable as it lets it creep on targets like Breloom to avoid the Spore or extremely fat Tank Chomp builds. It's also not as crippled by Knock Off as Skeledirge is, being only neutrally hit by SR and resisting Knock Off itself.

Its signature Raging Bull move is crucial for letting you deal with the many Screens HO teams running around while also just being a strong attack for it overall, especially after some Bulk Ups. Protect is also a decent option on it, letting it rack in Leftovers recovery and scouting Choiced attacks.
We will try to keep questions open for 24h and get to everyone within the next few days.

Then, nominations will be open as per normal (meaning they are not yet).
A reminder that while we want to hear from everyone, nominations are not yet open and please be patient
 

Finchinator

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Curious as to why Sandy Shocks is in D tier. It's not great, of course, but being a pivot that just barely eeks out past base 100 speed mons seems useful, especially paired with its strong offensive presence due to its typing + fairly good sp. attack. I get why it wouldn't be above C, but it feels like it has more of a niche than mfing maushold, especially on sun teams.

VR looks really good overall!
I think the issue with that comparison is that Maushold shouldn’t be ranked to begin with probably. Sandy Shocks has a niche and has been used, but is very hard to fit into serious teams and does not have much going it’s way beyond the initial wave of “oh shit lemme try this out” in all honesty. Offensively it can standout, but in the other end it struggles and you’re really strapped for slots right now.
Thanks for putting the time and effort into making the VR.

What makes Slowking B+, and why is there a large gap in viability between it and Slowbro?
Slowking can still pivot with Chilly Reception and Tera Water allows for it to check ChiYu, Gholdengo, Dragapult’s special sets, etc while Slowbro is more passive now.
why is mega weavile (chien-pao) not S or S-?
It’s a bit more limited than Gholdengo and Dragapult in terms of intrinsic defensive qualities it’s typing brings to offense while it lacks the absurd premium of strength Chi-Yu brings off-the-bat. I’d argue it’s top 5-7 in the metagame, but it just misses out on S- for now.
 

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Any reason why Donphan is not nominated at all? I mean, sure I said I was gonna try make it a nomination (when the time comes) but I wanna hear some reasoning to see if I can counter it (And to be real, im starting to be a bit scared about my abilitys to make it happen)
 
Any reason why Donphan is not nominated at all? I mean, sure I said I was gonna try make it a nomination (when the time comes) but I wanna hear some reasoning to see if I can counter it (And to be real, im starting to be a bit scared about my abilitys to make it happen)
Bro, we have 2 superior Donphans at home. I don't think the Johto one is entirely useless, but it has to compete as a Ground Mon with way too many Mons in OU: the other 2 Donphans, Chomp, Clodsire, Quagsire, Gastrodon, Ting-Lu, Hippowdon and even Palossand (unranked too) is probably better as defensive ground outside of Rapid Spin.
 

Finchinator

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You're going to have to sell A- Amoongus to me. In the Palafin meta, sure. But in the current meta? What does it even check? Breloom? The mon in a rank below it? It offers a free switch in to Gholdengo, the sole S rank mon. Spore is good, but I'd sooner use Toedscruel than Amoongus. At least Toedscruel can spore Gholdengo.
Amoonguss was borderline staple tier with Palafin in the metagame, now it’s just a bit above average. It’s able to soak up TSpikes, Spore, and soft check a lot of things with the threat of status. A- or B+ is fine for it, especially given that it’s hard to break with neutral moves and can inflict some ailments earlier in games with efficiency.
Hey Finch thanks for doing this I just have two questions and that is why is Iron Moth and especially Iron Jugulis rated so highly? I don't know to much about Iron Moth so I'm just looking for an explanation as to what makes it so good but I don't get Iron Jugulis at all. Iron Jugulis is absolutely terrible and doesn't fill the role of a fast dark type special attacker when stuff like Chi-Yu exists. Hurricane and Air Slash are terrible stab options and it doesn't even get any good forms of boosting like nasty plot except for booster energy I guess. What sets does it even run?
Iron Moth just has a nice mixture of good coverage and high speed for a strong special attacker with respectable utility. Jugulis is less mainstream as you allude, but it does get access to Knock Off, which is clutch and can pair with Taunt to make it a well-rounded breaker. Hurricane reliance is painful admittedly.
 
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Jugulis is less mainstream as you allude, but it does get access to Knock Off, which is clutch and can pair with Taunt or NP to make it a well-rounded breaker. Hurricane reliance is painful admittedly.
Does Jugulis even get NP? I remember lots of people complaining a lot how it was useless and specifically mention it losing NP was a big reason normal Hydreigon was better.
 

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Does Jugulis even get NP? I remember lots of people complaining a lot how it was useless and specifically mention it losing NP was a big reason normal Hydreigon was better.
No, I misspoke. This is what you get when you draft three posts at once. The main set I ran was Taunt / Hurricane / Knock / EPower with Boots and Tera Steel. The few times I laddered with it (including for YT) it really popped off, but it was still unreliable and accuracy dependent. I think that not many people have used it or find it great though, so I’ll probably internally discuss to lower it next slate! Apologies
 
A few things, so bear with me please:

  • Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason why Great Tusk didn't make the cut for S alongside Gholdengo? Chi-Yu and Pult are definitely "click buttons and win" sorts of offensive threats (an oversimplification, I know; Pult is definitely VERY varied in how it plays), but I was under the impression that Great Tusk was a lot more of a tier-defining, role compression behemoth (a lot of folks compare it to Lando-T in Gen 7/8 for good reason) than not, which is why I'd expect it to be more at-home alongside Gholdengo than a subrank below it.
  • Why is Orthworm as high as B-? I was under the impression that it was either a strictly-worse Shed Tail user than Cyclizar or a mostly-worse Iron Defense+Body Press sweeper than Garganacl. Which of these two sets, if any, is good enough to warrant it being ranked above mons like Scream Tail, Lokix, or Ceruledge which (arguably) have much more defined niches in the tier than Orthworm does?
  • What's keeping Annihilape out of the S-ranks? Monke isn't necessarily something every team wants to build around, sure, but it's so oppressive during proper gameplay that it singlehandedly deters throwing out even relatively safe albeit weak attacks. It's almost like every form of SS OU's contact punishment got together and concocted something that punishes even the safest U-Turns while also punishing relatively safe Earthquakes and special moves.
  • I was also under the impression that Haxorus had Tera-Electric+Mold Breaker which gave it a very legitimate niche as an anti-Stall mon since it's a rare physical attacker that can muscle past Dondozo and Corviknight with one set. I don't think it's good, but it seems a little odd to me that it's sharing a rank with junk like Maushold and Brute Bonnet that I really can't imagine an OU-viable niche for. Why did it end up down in D as opposed to finding a place in C or even C+?
 
I feel Amoonguss is heavily outmatched by Toedscruel in current meta as Toed can Spore Gholdengo and Toxic Garganacl, two of the best mons in the tier currently. Toed also provides invaluable utility with Knock Off, Rapid Spin, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Taunt. It's also a decently fast screen setter with its 100 base speed.

Toed is lacking in physical bulk, for sure, but it also has a respectable 80/120 special bulk, and it has access to Leech Seed for longevity. Toedscruel should be above Amoongus in VR, and possibly get a high rank imo.

Beware of the Tentacles!
Toedscruel is a ton harder to keep alive with no recovery or Regen tho, and the lack of a Water resistance really hurts in matchups like Rain. Aside from just Water it's lacking other important resistances like Fighting and Fairy that really hurt your matchup against... basically everything Amoonguss is being tasked with handling, like Iron Valiant and Breloom. Besides there's little point to listing twenty thousand utility moves when once again a mon only has four moveslots and you'll probably want something to attack with as well. It's also not a fast screen setter because its ability makes screens negative priority lmao.

Being able to Toxic Garganacl is cool, Leech Seed and Spore on Gholdengo look cool until you realize you can just Earth Power it. Taunt also loses a ton of value when it has negative priority. Toedscruel also cannot absorb TSpikes, undo setup with Clear Smog etc...

Maybe someone can find a fringe niche for Toed with Spin+Knock+decent bulk but saying it is in any way comparable to Amoonguss, let alone outright a better version of it, is nonsensical.
 

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Why is Grimmsnarl A tier? Because it's the only reliable prankster?
You can’t play much SV OU without running into screens HO featuring Grimmsnarl. It is a premier support Pokemon right now
I'm wondering why Forretress isn't even included in any tier. Hazards seem to be very powerful this generation with already hazard weak pokemon and some that terastallize into hazard weak types.

Forretress brings a lot of solid moves to the table: stealth rock, spikes, toxic spikes, rapid spin, gyro ball, volt switch, and good old explosion. It also brings a typing that resists or neutrals things that hit it's competition for super, while really only having the one glaring weakness. Yes losing access to custap berry hurts, but there are many other options. Not to mention the elephant in the room that is Ferrothorn not being in.

I cannot truly say where it should be tiered, but what it brings to the table in this format this generation deserves a closer look.
Could make an argument for D or even low C perhaps, but Forretress provides so little defensively or offensively while wanting to overcompensate so much on utility that it’s very awkward to fit and it’s role is oftentimes quite limited. It does have a niche by definition though, so I wouldn’t mind it being ranked.
Why is Charizard ranked? Even after Solar Power, it’s still weaker than Chi-Yu. I would imagine it’s the ability to Tera Fire while still retaining coverage for Tyranitar and having a spikes immunity and potentially being a secondary breaker for sun teams, but even then the reliance on sun, prediction / accuracy reliance and Solar Power damage make it much worse overall. Is there something I’m missing here?

Edit: Just realized Chi-Yu doesn’t get Solar Beam either so I can kinda see how Charizard has a niche against some bulky mons that are weak to Grass other than Tyranitar as well, but in general they don’t handle Chi-Yu’s attacks well either.
Oftentimes it’s used alongside Chi-Yu and it also provides a different presence overall due to coverage and a different defensive profile, granting an immunity to Ground and resistance to Fighting rather than weaknesses to both.
Why is Iron Jugulis in B-? I don’t think I’ve ever seen this thing do anything after the first day. Coverage is nice and all, but I’m legitimately curious as to why this thing is above Scovillian and Masquerain, which both have actual niches in the meta. Jugulis, imo, does not.
Already asked (and answered) — check above and try to control-f next time if possible, thanks. TL;DR is that it’s probably going to drop, but early lists are hard. It offers a premium with speed and knock off, but Hurricane reliance and mediocre defensive typing do indeed hold it back.
 

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I believe that spidops deserves to be somewhere on the list(although I don't know where,probably on the low tiers.).

spidops is at this moment the single best sticky web setter.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1741340934

its stats are not as bad as they look.
its bulk sometimes lets it survive survive some attacks with enough investment. and pure bug typying isn't bad defensively.

this pokemon's access to circle throw allow it to punish the enemy setup users (unless if they use they use substitute), the access to the move silk trap sometimes lets it slow down the opponents who chose to stay instead of switching.
on top of that it has access to u-turn,meaning that its low speed is a blessing in disguise.

sure it may become unviable when new sticky web setters get introduced but at this moment it deserves to be on the viability list.
there are people on youtube saying that it is actually good.

I know that some players also run first impression, I am not saying that they are wrong,but I don't think that this move is that good on spidops.
the item focus sash lets it survive a hit.

EDIT: I want to add that it is certainly better than rabsca which is pure trash but somehow made it in lowest tier.
If you feel strongly, you’re welcome to make a formal nomination when the thread opens up to nominations.
Keep in mind nominating anything from UR mandates replays of your own and substance filled explanations though.
I am here to preach corv
How come something like Kingambit is in A+ tier instead of the metal bird? It’s only a few spots of difference really but when they’re technically like an entire tier apart I can’t see it
Never really had struggles with kingambit while personally I’ve made excellent use of corv
Interested to see the reasoning

Also think mola arcanine and mimikyu are way too high and should not be above things lol lokix lol but that’s for another day
Corvi is really only good because it’s a Ground immune and Steel type, providing it commodity status. Kingambit is one of the strongest physical attackers and breakers that had an awesome late game presence and makes up for lackluster speed with Sucker Punch. Corv also only fits into more balanced teams while you can see Kingambit normally on offense and even as a win condition on other styles as well!
 
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Finchinator

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Any reason why Donphan is not nominated at all? I mean, sure I said I was gonna try make it a nomination (when the time comes) but I wanna hear some reasoning to see if I can counter it (And to be real, im starting to be a bit scared about my abilitys to make it happen)
What Eeveeto said is perfect on this front.
Does that Talonflame ranking basically reflect just the Defog sets or does it include offensive sets as well?
Primarily utility oriented, especially as it can fit on bulky teams in a capacity that can limit Annihilape
 
Earth Power does nothing to Toed though? It actually resists Earth Power lol, since it's Grass/Ground and it has 120 special defense. You are tripping bud

Amoongus has virtually no niche over Toed in the meta atm, as Toed handles two of the best mons in the tier. Knock Off deters many potential Toed switch ins too.
I think his point was Toed can Earth Power Gholdengo which makes being able to Spore/Seed it of little benefit (arguably even less since it means non-Scarf Ghold gets to make a move before you). If it's a non-Scarf Gholdengo (with a Popped Balloon if that set), you'd be better off attacking it than trying to forced-status it, at which point Toedscruel isn't a unique answer. At most you'd be scaring it out to status the switch-in without the risk of a completely wasted turn if he calls your bluff and stays in
 
I think his point was Toed can Earth Power Gholdengo which makes being able to Spore/Seed it of little benefit (arguably even less since it means non-Scarf Ghold gets to make a move before you). If it's a non-Scarf Gholdengo (with a Popped Balloon if that set), you'd be better off attacking it than trying to forced-status it, at which point Toedscruel isn't a unique answer. At most you'd be scaring it out to status the switch-in without the risk of a completely wasted turn if he calls your bluff and stays in
My bad, I misunderstood their point. Although status moves are still useful against Air Balloon Ghold and Tera Ghold.
 

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A few things, so bear with me please:

  • Just out of curiosity, is there any particular reason why Great Tusk didn't make the cut for S alongside Gholdengo? Chi-Yu and Pult are definitely "click buttons and win" sorts of offensive threats (an oversimplification, I know; Pult is definitely VERY varied in how it plays), but I was under the impression that Great Tusk was a lot more of a tier-defining, role compression behemoth (a lot of folks compare it to Lando-T in Gen 7/8 for good reason) than not, which is why I'd expect it to be more at-home alongside Gholdengo than a subrank below it.
  • Why is Orthworm as high as B-? I was under the impression that it was either a strictly-worse Shed Tail user than Cyclizar or a mostly-worse Iron Defense+Body Press sweeper than Garganacl. Which of these two sets, if any, is good enough to warrant it being ranked above mons like Scream Tail, Lokix, or Ceruledge which (arguably) have much more defined niches in the tier than Orthworm does?
  • What's keeping Annihilape out of the S-ranks? Monke isn't necessarily something every team wants to build around, sure, but it's so oppressive during proper gameplay that it singlehandedly deters throwing out even relatively safe albeit weak attacks. It's almost like every form of SS OU's contact punishment got together and concocted something that punishes even the safest U-Turns while also punishing relatively safe Earthquakes and special moves.
  • I was also under the impression that Haxorus had Tera-Electric+Mold Breaker which gave it a very legitimate niche as an anti-Stall mon since it's a rare physical attacker that can muscle past Dondozo and Corviknight with one set. I don't think it's good, but it seems a little odd to me that it's sharing a rank with junk like Maushold and Brute Bonnet that I really can't imagine an OU-viable niche for. Why did it end up down in D as opposed to finding a place in C or even C+?
Tusk to S is entirely fair, but right now it faces stiff competition from Iron Treads on hard offense while we see Garchomp and Clodsire take up the Ground slot on other builds. It’s not quite as universal as Gholdengo, but it’s still insanely effective and practical as both a utility presence, offensive threat, and defensive tank. I foresee a world where Tusk is S in the near future once we settle up a tad more.

Orth has a decent defensive presence with moves beyond Shed Tail — I don’t even know if it’s best variants do that. We also have a huge lack of Steel types, which helps and distinguishes it from other bulky presences like Garg. It’s still only B- though, nothing standout.

Annihilape got a split vote, but realistically slots in the S ranks are always limited while A ranks always feel a tad more bloated and this historical convention lined up here as well. I think I see it as a top 5-7 Pokémon that just missed the cut on S-. Obviously it’s insane with Rage Fist abuse running amok right now, no refuting that sentiment.

Stall is pretty bad to the point that you seldom need dedicated breakers regardless, in my opinion. I think Haxorus can eventually settle into C if Tera remains, but the pacing of the tier slows down. Until then, it’s a step slow and lacking other qualities like defensive value or insane priority exploits like Dragonite, which leaves it as a more bottom of the barrel option. It may be better than outright D rank though still.
 
Yall pretty much hit the nail on the head with this early VR, I wouldn't say anything is in an objectionable position and the meta is reflected really well. Not a ton to say now because I expect the meta to shift quite hugely following decisions on Tera and potential suspects on Annihilape/Chi-Yu/etc.

I'm surprised to see in here/on PS quite a few people confused as to why Dragapult is in S tier. The thing is incredibly meta defining, sets a speed tier standard for all offense, has multiple extremely effective sets and is one of the best pivots in the tier. It's so damn splashable it easily belongs with the other extremely splashable mons in S tier. The only thing outside of S tier I'd say might meet them on splashability is Ting-Lu but that's partly because it's literally there for the splashable mons.

I'll be interested to see if Snow (via Abomasnow) can find its niche in the tier as there's quite a few viable mons that can make use of it. Cetitan in particular seems to be well placed against Offense right now. I will say I think Baxcalibur will slowly slip down the rankings as the tier progresses, it's in this awkward space between sweeper and breaker that feels like a lot of teams can handle well.
 
why would it be higher?
It's a remarkably good rkiller from what I have used. Tinted Lens with both of its priority stabs enable it to revenge kill nearly anything that doesn't have a quadruple resist (ex. Corviknight), it also can check Gholdengo, an undisputed top mon right now with Sucker Punch
 

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Bro, we have 2 superior Donphans at home. I don't think the Johto one is entirely useless, but it has to compete as a Ground Mon with way too many Mons in OU: the other 2 Donphans, Chomp, Clodsire, Quagsire, Gastrodon, Ting-Lu, Hippowdon and even Palossand (unranked too) is probably better as defensive ground outside of Rapid Spin.
What Eeveeto said is perfect on this front.
Okay, seems reasonable, im gonna try my best to prove my point, and if fails, at least I tried with everything i got, thank you 2 for the feedback
 
What makes Scovilliain useful? Dude be lookin like a Victreebel with a glow up to me
I guess Fire is a better secondary type than Poison (I guess?) but I digress
 
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It's a remarkably good rkiller from what I have used. Tinted Lens with both of its priority stabs enable it to revenge kill nearly anything that doesn't have a quadruple resist (ex. Corviknight), it also can check Gholdengo, an undisputed top mon right now with Sucker Punch
Lokix has a weakness to rocks and is vulnerable to every form of hazard, meaning you HAVE to run boots and sacrifice some damage. Also, relying on First Impression (first turn only) or Sucker Punch (50/50) is risky at best when you can lose games after 1 turn of setup. Besides, pair of scissors and boxing mushroom are better revenge killers, scissors having actual bulk and a good defensive typing while mushroom has access to Spore. Both can also tech for Gholdengo with Thief/Bulldoze.

What makes Scovilliain useful? Dude be lookin like a glorified Victreebel to me
I guess Fire is a better secondary type than Poison (I guess?) but I digress
It's the best Chlorophyll mon right now, and Sun is actually decent thanks to past paradoxes. How is being a glorified Victreebel a bad thing btw? Thing was not used only because Venu existed, but it's just as powerful.
 
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