Resource SV PU Viability Rankings

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

Sense the tier discussion forum is dead.
Anyone thoughts on ? It recently got banned from zu and there's a pattern of people not using a low tier until its bl and than finding out it's broken (Ru oricorio pom-pom and Gyarados)

To be honest, I never agreed with Bellossom's ban from ZU and I think people just see it as "an annoying element that doesn't bring much to the tier" but honestly it's worse than oricorio-F which i never saw as broken either. From my POV they're the kind of mons that set up a quiver dance or two and then fail to sweep.

Frosmoth w/ hail support is much less susceptible to "anti-cheese" imo. Meanwhile, even in ZU, Oricorio-F's biggest issue is that it can't really setup on anything, and if it does, it will eventually need to hit a hurricane to hope for a 2HKO, since there is no shortage of good water types in the tier.

 

[UberSkitty]

There's a lotta one-liners in this thread so imma have to teach y'all how to post in here. These are mostly small noms tho based on a personal VR I made.

Rises:
A -> A+ Our current "tera makes it broken" mon. Some want it banned, with or without snow.
A- -> A/A+ The other top snow sweeper, but still deserving of A-rank otherwise as one of our top hazard controls.
A- -> A It's always been a huge offensive threat, except now there's no more Wo-Chien to stop it.
B- -> B/B+ It really benefits from losing pretty much all the mons that rose to NU.
B -> B+/A- It just hard switches into so many relevant mons. And that gives it all the more chances to set up hazards or Coil.
B -> B+ Annoyingly soft checks a lotta stuff with it's high bulk and annoying utility. Yes, I'm looking at you Thunder Wave.
B- -> B/B+ See above.
B- -> B Grassy Terrain is slightly better than before, and you're gonna need this monkey to pull it off.
B- -> B Another Grassy Terrain team mon, and it's debatably the best Unburden option we have.
C+ -> B- A solid trade mon, it can also be really hard to switch into without a Milotic on your team.
C -> B- This just feels like a mon that is popular to hate on. Sure it's not at its peak, but the utility, specifically hazard control, is great in the current meta.
C -> C+ I don't support it dropping last update, it can easily be used over Uxie for Healing Wish support or as a more offensive SR setter.
C -> B- Spikes are good :P

Drops:
A -> A- Checks stuff less reliably than we anticipated, and one of it's biggest resists, Pawmot, has Ice Punch for it.
B -> B- Only rose due to a couple hype tour matches, fell from B+ last shift and I think it deserves another fall.
B- -> C Cool in theory with Milotic being a thing, but too meh in practice to usually justify over other stuff.
B- -> C/C+ Pretty much just used on terrain, and I know I said to raise some terrain mons, this is not one of em.
C -> UR This is the kind of mon that can put in work in a match every blue moon but doesn't have enough going for it to actually justify being ranked.

Most of this doesn't have to do with Snow and I'm impatient, so I'll just update this if it's banned in a couple hours.

 

[Platum]

First VR post from me, mainly focused on rises because there isn't much that feels too high.

RISES :
B+ -> A- : These Avalugg-H fat/balance teams are now very common and have a lot of variations. People realized just how many good matchups against common setters this mon has (excellent against bomb and aslash, pretty good against rhydon and muds, okay into the qwilfishes if you can afford being statused). It's certainly a tera hog but it's not like it's useless if you don't tera. It's also decently hard to switch into for more offensive teams. It can be a bit passive against the likes of milo/heatom, which is why it tends to work only on more defensive structures. So it's archetype limited and is still flawed on the special side which prevents it from rising higher imo, but the fact it can be the ultimate stopgap to physical attackers after tera is very appreciated.

C+ -> B-/B : Glowbro leaving created a need for status absorbers, and this mon is very good at that while being somewhat dangerous. Sure, relying on rest sucks, but it's a very cool sidegrade to coil dudun if you want something to deal with toxic users like amoong/goodra/lazzle, all of which can feel hard to take into account on the builder. Thick fat is not bad either, if you're scared of frosmoth for example. Eq as coverage is kinda new and works great if you managed to knock off rhydon's item.

A- -> A/A+ : Bruxish is so much better after shifts as we all know, scarf is one of the best speed controls and kinda hard to switch into, but what I wanna highlight is band and sd being played a lot more now. And for good reasons, this mon is not easy to answer at all.

A -> A+ : This mon has always been crazy good, but now it has even more set variation, with things like cm+toxic, offensive rocks with boomburst + chople, glare + hex, etc. being more explored. It's so hard to play around while being a good fit defensively, blanket checking many things by virtue of its good bulk.

A -> A+ : Slowly proving to be best dark. While I don't use it much, I cannot deny how much it can provide for a team. Spedef pivot is now staple but offensive sets are still great progress makers, with scarf rocky payload being another good trendy set. Set variety and role compression makes it so good and it's reflected by crazy usage in PUWC rn.

A- -> A : Snow staple and best removal in the tier while being a decent steel type and progress maker, this mon should have been higher in the first place. It has flaws, that's for sure, but it's a balance/BO staple.

B- -> B : It might be more opinion based but this mon is a pretty good scarfer, despite poor matchups into things like goodra rotom-heat and amoong, which you can trick sometimes so it's not the end of the world. Ground immunity, good milo matchup, "unblockable" pivoting, tricking scarf into opposite wincons, I don't really know why it's so low honestly. It's for sure better than the rest of B-. It's at least on par with h-trode if not better.

B- -> B : I already talked a bit about this potentially being a big winner of last shifts, and sets like life orb mixed with leaf storm or trailblaze sd (sometimes with tera blast ghost) are genuinely good. There's also more room for coverage like zen headbutt now. Overall a good mon with surprising damage output for how bulky and fast it is.

C -> C+/B- : Somewhat huge rise and honestly I can't really explain why this mon improved. Like, wo-chien leaving sure, but you could already flip turn. What I know for sure is that this mon is seen quite a bit, it's pretty good at forcing passive answers and pivoting into them for other threats to abuse. Maybe the last drop was just too harsh.

DROPS :
A+ -> A/A- : I might be alone on this one but I feel like this mon is not that great (despite me being one of the ban voters). Offensive sets are way too reliant on tera, each tera having hardstops, it's bulky and fast but not that bulky and not that fast, we don't see it that much now. And sure it's a great enabler in snow, but does snow alone justify it being so high? Idk about that. Snow can be a bit centralizing and steals wins with frosmoth, but it doesn't make a9 A+ by any means, at least for me.

A -> A- : Still a good mon but it fell off a bit. It's susceptible to knock off from the more prevalent bombirdier, it's a bit passive for the more offensively oriented meta, it gets abused by slash in snow, not a great spedef wall in this lazzle/frosmoth/cm florges/rotom-heat economy.. But it obviously still has tools to be good, barb barrage is hard to switch into and it keeps a good matchup into the otherwise scary hoopa/bruxish.

 

[Aurist]

I was actually preparing myself to make a VR nominations post and then Platum went ahead and nominated every single thing I was going to

I have to say a heavy agree on every single one of them (legit, all of them), but I think that there's a couple noms I'd put even higher -

-> A
Avalugg-Hisui being on the rise has made balance maybe the strongest archetype in the tier thanks to its combo of reliable removal, high bulk/recovery, and ability to heavily influence matchups with Tera to the point that games can become almost unloseable. I think that that last point in particular is overcoming the flaws that might otherwise be placing it in A-.

-> B+
Voltturn is really improving and Rotom-Mow is basically the best volt switcher for it. Trick is carrying a lot of mons in this tier and Rotom-Mow is one of them. That's all

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

Figured I'd post here since I just got reqs

I'd actually nominate rotom-C for a drop if anything, it's so much more exploitable than its -H counterpart and also presents a pretty big opportunity cost. The one thing it does better however is it can hold other items besides HDB, but still, I'd rather use other grasses in general.

Shaymin is a mon I'd still drop despite carrying me past the coil requirements... seed flare remains seed flare, and C+ was a bit harsh but it and Rotom-C probably fit better in B-.

Fully agree with Snorlax and Avalugg-Hisui noms, they are still pretty unexplored although Snorlax's bad matchup vs Haze Milotic hurts

Finally this sounds a bit off the rocker, but I believe you can make a case for UR ---> C. It fits better on teams with Curse Arcanine, since you don't stack weaknesses to Water and Ground and this forme actually resists Stealth Rock, leaving it much freer to run Leftovers as its item of choice if it wants to run Bulk Up.

EDIT
A+ ---> lower.
Honestly I don't like Alolan Ninetales that much. You want Nasty Plot and Freeze-Dry + Moonblast, but then you forgo a potential nuke with Blizzard or great utility options like Veil and Encore. This is one of the reasons my ban vote on Frosmoth is not definitive, and the Pokemon it enables besides Frosmoth honestly... just aren't that great. Slush Rush abusers, meanwhile, need the speed boost far more than a potential Veil setup, and even then you run into problems. Beartic, for example, does not have what it takes to break the ZU meta, let alone PU, and it needs to run very weird sets such as Encore or Tera Fairy to get past Milotic. Same with Alolan Sandslash, which still fails to grab important KOs at +2 and Triple Axel is incredibly unreliable across multiple battles. Haze Milotic does a great job at just blocking these threats especially since it can burn them with Scald, Arcanine can force mind games with tera normal/grass, so by running snow you now also need a mon against water types and roar mudsdale... I think snow is definitely a viable archetype but this mon is not worthy of A+.

 

[Yunie]

b- to b
this is a quick one, i think having a scarfer that's faster than stuff like scarf brux, scarf zoro, and +2 fros is really useful, especially on a mon with really good progress making tools. knock turn will never not be good, and then you have stuff like super fang with poison touch, encore, switcheroo, etc. it's a great anti-cheese option but also just a good scarfer in general, and i think more people should be using it.

 

[DD Joe]

- S

- A+

- A+

- A+

Bombird is the most splashable and consistently strong mon in the builder right now. It can initiate sweeps, clean, set Hazards, has priority and is ground immune... Its a clear S mon to me.

Bruxish is also very oppressive now Wo Chien is gone and has great set variety. Not only is it the best scarfer, its arguably one of the tiers best breakers with band and sd sets.

Avalugg Hisui. Annoying defensive glue Mon that invalidates half of the attacking roster post Tera. Pair it with a spdef wall and profit.

Finally, Goodra can run a large variety of sets also and can be oppressive when spreading toxic as well as knocking the boots off your entire team. Goodra can also wall break with Specs and be a general nuisance with no switch ons with e belt. Extremely splashable and brilliant glue Mon.

 

[eeriespell]

B+ > A+
meteoric rise here but i don't think it's unfounded, tera lugg balances have been surging in popularity since midway through SCL and the mon has become a star performer outside of its role as a dedicated offense lead. spins somewhat reliably, tera allows it to be a nice blanket phys check to most stuff (especially the nasty nasty fighters), deals respectable damage, and can even set rocks in a pinch. pairs with bombirdier for a nasty one-two punch as well and is largely responsible for current meta's just-add-water team structures being so effective.

A > A+
fighters are generally kinda gross at the moment seeing as a lot of our resists feel very fake due to not having the proper defensive profile or just crumpling to coverage, and i think redbull is the biggest indicator of how powerful they are right now. there are, genuinely, a grand total of zero fucking switchins to this aside from hitting a successful tera flip. physdef milotic still takes an uncomfortable amount from cc regardless of set, and tauros has plenty of ways to push closer to that 2HKO range even without prior chip. immune to burn pre-tera as well which means other catch-all phys snuffers like will-o rotom-h aren't very helpful. you gotta guess right or check it offensively, neither of which are always very easy to do! adamant scarf is also something you can get away with because you still outspeed florges and essentially get the damage benefits of muscle band :) massive pain in the ass and i would certainly say it's on par with pawmot thanks to fire STAB demolishing venusaur and amoonguss.

 

[Oofhixd]

Gonna do some noms now that we're out of PUWC

A -> S
tbh this mon is broken. So much set variety and it can just win games. Utility sets are really strong and cm/coil are broken.

A -> S
I completely agree with Joe's post on this thing


B+ -> B-
Mainly because it's pretty outclassed by above. It's also outclassed by qwilfish-hisui (more on it later), not to say it's unviable but it's a bad time to be a skuntank.

A -> A+
bombirdier but much bulkier and a different typing. This mon also does so much and is integral to so many teams.

S -> A+ or maybe even A tbh.
the meta doesn't revolve around milo anymore, and it's nowhere near the best mon in the rn.

C+ -> B+
recent tours have revived lax and I think it's really quite strong rn. It can break quite well with band but i think it's better as a curse attacker as a nice alternative to dudun.

B+ -> A
this thing not being in the A ranks is absolutely ridiculous tbh. It just wins games that it shouldn't do. It also has quite a bit of move variety which helps it further.

A -> A+
The quintessential partner to alolatales and i believe it shoild be in the same rank as it since moth can be used outside and inside of hail, and it also has insane set variety.

A -> A+
probably the best removal option in the tier with reliable recovery, a brilliant typing and an ability that is arguably better than the likes of huge power.

B+ -> A
Probably the second best removal option in the tier. Breaker, wall, hazards, hazard control, this mon does it all.

 

[I'm Tapu Bulu]

Honestly I'd suggest the creation of an S- rank

Drop Milotic and Salazzle to S-, and include Florges and possibly Bombirdier here. I believe 4 mons in S rank is already too much, let alone 5.

Hisuian Avalugg rising is something I fully support, but for something with a special defense this abysmal, A+ is too much. I remember innovating a 232 special defense anti-lead havalugg during the Duraludon retest, so if something similar gains traction and outsources Stealth Rock to another pokemon, then maybe going higher would be justified. A is fine from my perspective

Dudunsparce should stay where it is, knock off and status screw it over.

Bombirdier should probably rise but S rank is too high for it for a pokemon that is kinda dependent on its boots to properly function. A or A+ are fine for it imho. Also how does it outclass Skuntank??? id rather use skuntank if i don't wanna run boots. This just suggests Skuntank probably needs to rise as well.

Qwilfish-Hisui: I actually think this pokemon should drop to B or something. I find it interesting that people are saying it outclasses Skuntank, when it's actually the other way around. Knock off is the best move in the game, this thing doesn't learn it unlike skuntank, and it getting knocked removes a lot of the utility it brings to the table.

 

[MZ]

My take on the S and S- thing: simply not necessary to make new tiers right now. S- is for when you have enough Pokemon that feel so good that they're meaningfully outside of A tier but can still be split into 2 sets, and I don't think we have that. Our best Pokemon are still relatively close to the pack, and S rank right now actually feels like really good picks. I have to actively justify why I'm not putting Milotic and Rhydon on every team, and I have to strongly consider how I'm beating all 4 of those mons in my gameplan. Think about how there's no comparison to Milotic and it can be a real pain to effectively pivot into, how Rhydon just absolutely steals games all the time or acts as one of the best defensive mons to gunk up your gameplan for free, or how Rotom-H and Salazzle can completely warp games around them with how difficult they are to effectively check and how much they outclass our next Fire options. I don't think Bombirdier is as warping of a presence. Despite being incredibly splashable and effective, it's easier to beat with simple, non-intrusive gameplans and easier to justify dropping when we have such good competition in that Dark-type slot.

I would much rather reform A+ rank than S rank. Alolan Ninetales, especially now that it's not supporting Frosmoth, can drop into A- for now, A rank if people really still rate it that high but I don't especially. Florges and Pawmot remain standout top tiers, and I think we can comfortably add Bombirdier, Dudunsparce, and Goodra to that A+ tier. I'd also push for Bruxish making it in for pure power and the extreme splashability of both Scarf and SD at the moment, with Band still being a relevant enough option that it can find its way onto any type of team for some fairly different roles. At this point A+ contains all of the Pokemon I consider to be true standout threats with little downside in fitting on your team. I'd leave Avalugg-Hisui to the A rank, as it feels a bit tera hogish and is getting a little predictable, relatively speaking it's easier to tech for and pressure than most defensive staples given the inherent weakness of needing to Tera, being incredibly vulnerable to poison and burn, and having that special defense stat. I'm also not with eeriespell on bumping up Redbull, simply because Pawmot is too standout and I'm not thinking about adding Redbull to every team in the same capacity, A rank is fine. Although I'm currently 50/50 on whether I'd actually want to do this, the next closest A+ rank to me right now is Mudsdale. AV and CB sets taking off has done a lot for its meta presence, Rocks can more easily be fit onto a random non-Ground type right now with Bombirdier, Dudunsparce and Uxie all being so good, and it really gives Rhydon a run for its money in the defensive capacity even though offensive Rhydon is in a league of its own.

tldr
S: AKA No changes
A+: and maybe , drop to A-

 

[Oofhixd]

Honestly I'd suggest the creation of an S- rank

Drop Milotic and Salazzle to S-, and include Florges and possibly Bombirdier here. I believe 4 mons in S rank is already too much, let alone 5.

Hisuian Avalugg rising is something I fully support, but for something with a special defense this abysmal, A+ is too much. I remember innovating a 232 special defense anti-lead havalugg during the Duraludon retest, so if something similar gains traction and outsources Stealth Rock to another pokemon, then maybe going higher would be justified. A is fine from my perspective

Dudunsparce should stay where it is, knock off and status screw it over.

Bombirdier should probably rise but S rank is too high for it for a pokemon that is kinda dependent on its boots to properly function. A or A+ are fine for it imho. Also how does it outclass Skuntank??? id rather use skuntank if i don't wanna run boots. This just suggests Skuntank probably needs to rise as well.

Qwilfish-Hisui: I actually think this pokemon should drop to B or something. I find it interesting that people are saying it outclasses Skuntank, when it's actually the other way around. Knock off is the best move in the game, this thing doesn't learn it unlike skuntank, and it getting knocked removes a lot of the utility it brings to the table.

Tbh i completely disagree with the entirety of the nomming part of this post (except dropping milo), but I completely agree with the creation of S-. S- has already been discussed in here by phil and I, and we didnt really get a response, but now since this idea is being brought up more, I’d like to give my opinion on why this is necessary. 4 mons in S is too much. There are barely any tiers which do this (the only one that comes to mind is ORAS NU?), let alone 5, which I think there are rn. It’s also nice to show a distinction between the best mons in the tier and the rest of S, whilst also showing theyre a clear cut above A+ mons. My ranking would go something like:

S:
S-:
A+:
(not ordered)