What the fuck? The fact that this is true is just wtf
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Resource SV Ubers Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Aberforth
- Start date
Ok, first of all, chi yu needs a lot of support and prediction to actually work, and you gotta have the right conditions. second of all, most if not all koraidon are scarf on non HO teams too. Boots eternatus is literally the number one set used right now, more common than offensive etern imo. Even with webs this feesh is not gonna be worthy of your teams lot most of the time over another Mon like eternatus, and don't forget about hazards weakness in a tier lacking reliable removal other than that random giratina who might wanna run other moves as well. There is no shot this thing is going anywhere near B+ or A- rank, and you probably wont get much success with it on high ladder unless you are some prediction god who plays perfectly every turn. the biggest issue with the feesh isn't that miraidon outspeeds it and kills it, its that koraidon and various other mons like eternatus does as well! also hazards weakness + frail + not fast enough + needs too much support. I've seen some cope uses in some tours but they didn't work so well either.
What makes Chi-Yu a rather useful Pokemon, is that it makes pressure on the opponent, if it is in the right condition, to sack or take huge damage on a pokemon. You have no switch in for it.Ok, first of all, chi yu needs a lot of support and prediction to actually work, and you gotta have the right conditions. second of all, most if not all koraidon are scarf on non HO teams too. Boots eternatus is literally the number one set used right now, more common than offensive etern imo. Even with webs this feesh is not gonna be worthy of your teams lot most of the time over another Mon like eternatus, and don't forget about hazards weakness in a tier lacking reliable removal other than that random giratina who might wanna run other moves as well. There is no shot this thing is going anywhere near B+ or A- rank, and you probably wont get much success with it on high ladder unless you are some prediction god who plays perfectly every turn. the biggest issue with the feesh isn't that miraidon outspeeds it and kills it, its that koraidon and various other mons like eternatus does as well! also hazards weakness + frail + not fast enough + needs too much support. I've seen some cope uses in some tours but they didn't work so well either.
Also, all of the pokemon you listed gets OHKOed by overheat *without tera* except Eternatus, so they can't even switch in. Also the most common Gliscor set is even outspeeded by Chi-Yu, which makes it very unreliable.
If fit on a sticky web strategy, it even can revenge kill Zacian-C, forcing the opponent to sack a pokemon or take a huge damage.
The Miraidon ban removed one of its biggest issues, while helping it by making Koraidon even more widely used. I think that the C rank relegates it to a trash-like status, while in my experience is a quite useful pokemon, which has to be in the right gimmicks and played properly to be useful, but it is not a shitmon in this tier.
Fyi i played extensively in ladder, peaking top 5, to state that this is not a barrel of junk.
EDIT: There wasn't a tournament since Miraidon ban, so your statement is not considering the new meta.
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Since when Did I say gliscor is gonna come in on chi-yu? sure, miraidon going is gonna mean less competition for the fish, but B+ rank is way too high for this thing. Don't even get me started on opposing webs and opposing HO. If you say this thing is good at decimating fatter structures, then you have a point, but against more offensive oriented playstyle this fish is not gonna shine. the things I listed are not checks to the fish, but things I use to represent the problems it has and just various things I have said in my post. I agree that chi-yu should be ranked up, but my argument is that its too exploitable offensively to be ranked anywhere near B+ or A-, its just too high up for this thing. Ill put it in B- tho.
It's been a few weeks since the ban and the tier has (maybe) started to settle down so I made a quick list of my thoughts on most of the mons on the VR. I did write this over the past week due to time issues, so my thoughts are likely fairly disjointed, and may even be outdated for some of the mons I wrote first. Some of these noms are also to maintain their overall rank so I included them for consistency’s sake. I might make a separate post in the metagame discussion thread to talk about the metagame as a whole and limit this to just the individual mons, but it goes without saying that the tier looks very different from what it used to be. It probably also goes without saying that..
Koraidon S(1) -> S(1) - Still the best mon in the tier by a large margin. Scarf sets have held the tier together since the beginning and continue to do that with Miraidon no longer in the tier. Scale Shot sets still threaten sweeps and LO wallbreaking sets still force progress. I don't think Koraidon at the #1 spot is that contentious so I'll move on.
Zacian A+ -> S-(1) / S(2) - I'm not as convinced as most people this is the second best mon in the tier by such a large margin, and I definitely don't think it's at the level of Koraidon, but based on what I've seen it deserves to move up. If you had asked me before the ban where I thought it was, I'd say an easy S(3) or S-(1) due to its ability to offensively check both bikes. The Miraidon ban should have caused it to move directly up to 2nd best, but it doesn't feel quite as splashable as it used to. It may just be a building thing and I haven't figured out how to build for this meta, so I'm not going to harp on this too much. I do prefer it being in S- as opposed to S, but either spot works, and I'll be ranking the rest of S- assuming Zacian is at S(2).
Ho-Oh A+ -> S-(1) - The removal of the best offensive check to Ho-Oh was probably the best thing that could happen for it. Brave Bird / Sacred Fire are both even more clickable now, and both offensive and defensive sets find more entry points throughout the course of the game. It's super easy to throw this mon on any team that isn't HO, and I think you need to have a very good reason to not put it on a balance team.
Kyogre A+ -> S-(2) - I'm not entirely sold on Rest sets quite yet, but no more Electric Terrain means it does open up the possibility for Kyogre to have recovery. Even without any it's still a menace whenever it can gain entry, which is much easier for it to accomplish now. Defensive Eternatus struggles to switch in to Ice Beam / Thunder Wave, and offensive sets can't even trade with it. Kyogre is also one of the few mons that immediately threatens Ho-Oh, which by itself isn't that impressive, but offensive sets can additionally pressure many balance teams, and even trade with a mon on HO teams. Defensive sets still need to be explored some more, but similar to Ho-Oh, you need a really good reason not to bring this mon on a balance / BO team.
Eternatus A- -> A+(1) / S-(3) - It's not really a surprise that Eternatus would benefit in the post-Miraidon meta when it now has one less revenge killer. It was already a good pick for many teams with its defensive utility and sweeping capabilities, but those were compounded with Miraidon's removal. Additionally, Ting-Lu dropping in usage is really nice for it, with 3 attack LO sets seeing some development as a result. It has the bulk to hit back against most of the tier, and poisoning a support Arc form can prove instrumental in setting up for the end game. Defensive sets are still able to somewhat check Kyogre but offensive sets were the primary beneficiary of the new meta. I can see an argument being made for S- or A+, and, while I prefer A+ for its ranking, I'll treat the following rankings as if it's been ranked at S-.
Arceus-Fairy A+ -> A+(1) - Arceus forms are interesting to rank in the new meta, but I don't think their sets are going to change drastically. Fairy might run Thunder Wave more often with the decline of Ground types, but otherwise demon sets, CM + Taunt sets, Stealth Rocks sets, etc, are still doing the same thing they've always done. Consequently, the meta shift didn't have much of an effect on Fairyceus, and I think it'll remain the best support Arceus form that can always threaten a sweep if it's left in the back.
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane S -> A+(2) - The meta shift was a mixed blessing for NDM. On the one hand, Miraidon threatened every set and either forced a Tera or a switch, but on the other the meta didn't exactly get slower for NDM to take advantage of. If anything, Arceus-Water & Arceus-Ghost becoming more viable as a result of the ban hurt it just as much as Miraidon leaving benefited it. I've never been a fan of defensive rocks sets, but Spdef sets may have more of a niche now with the increase in Eternatus usage. I think NDM is still top 10, and it's definitely still got a place on both offensive and bulkier teams, but I don't think its viability really changed that much for the better or worse.
Arceus-Ground A+ -> A(1) - Slight decrease in viability but overall the ban didn't hurt it too much. People loved to say Spdef sets were fake already, but then I was also told that Ground types would drop off the face of the planet after a Miraidon ban so I have no idea where most people stand on the viability of Groundceus. Dragon Dance sets lost and gained nothing, Calm Mind sets lost the ability to set up with Miraidon but gained a decrease in Ting-Lu viability, and defensive rocks sets were never really great to begin with. The only reason I drop this is due to the increase in Ho-Oh and Kyogre teams, as I personally don't think Power Gem is a great last move on the Calm Mind sets. I'm not going to argue much if it remains A+, though.
Arceus-Water A -> A(2) - Waterceus should've been a big beneficiary from the Miraidon ban, and it is, but probably not as much as you might think. Kyogre still threatens it with Thunder, Eternatus shrugs off anything thrown at it, and even Ho-Oh can click Whirlwind or fish for a burn with Sacred Fire. It's not a great Koraidon check either, with Low Kick having good odds to 2HKO after a U-turn, and definitely picking up the 2HKO if rocks are up. Is it bad? Definitely not, and it provides a solid defensive wall against Calyrex, NDM, & Zacian, among others, but I don't think it became astronomically better. The Ground types it previously threatened aren't as viable anymore, and unlike Fairyceus it can't switch into Koraidon quite as easily. Tera Poison Calm Mind sets are nice to take advantage of Eternatus and the disappearance of Taunt Miraidon does help it find a few more opportunities to set up throughout a game. However, choosing a CM set can be sub-optimal when you really want to run Wisp.
Arceus-Ghost B- -> A(3) - This was already an A-/A mon before the ban and is definitely A now. It's not quite as good of a Koraidon check as Fairyceus, and can be kind of dead weight into match ups where you play a Normal type, but overall Ghost STAB is very clickable and it has coverage/utility options to handle Ekiller. Ting-Lu no longer being quite so prevalent is helpful for it, but Ho-Oh can still easily switch into the defensive sets. It isn't quite as good of a defensive support mon as Waterceus & Fairyceus imo, but it has the tools to run mostly solid offensive and defensive sets and a well played demon Ghostceus can somewhat easily find itself on the winning screen.
Landorus-T A- -> A(4) - Best stopgap for dealing with both Korai & Zac, can run fast Taunt to prevent Gliscor from setting hazards, threatens quite a few mons with Quake/Edge, and can pivot out of undesirable situations. Helmet + Intimidate really makes this mon solid for chipping down Korai, and being able to revenge Zacian/force a Tera is a great bandaid on many teams that want to maintain momentum while not instantly folding to Zacian. Scarf sets are okay, mainly helping with the webs matchup and being only alright outside of it. Still, Lando has a ton of utility to offer teams and should definitely move up on the VR.
Arceus A -> A(5) - Still great but no longer in the top 3 for Arceus forms imo. SD sets can be deceptively bulky and leverage that bulk to find set up opportunities where other Arceus forms cannot, and STAB Extreme Speed is just as good as it sounds, with Tera Normal or LO sets being able to threaten a lot of the tier. Ekiller wasn't really affected by the Miraidon ban, but Arceus-Water & Arceus-Ghost being more used has made its job harder, along with Ho-Oh forcing it to run Taunt or click Tera Fire, the latter of which can be very costly if there's a Tera Ghost Koraidon in the back able to revenge it. All this to say, its viability hasn't really changed, a few of the Arceus forms just became more usable than it.
Gliscor A- -> A-(1) - I'm not convinced that Gliscor benefitted immensely from the ban, but it's not like it got worse. Toxic Spikes are maybe less usable now that Etern is seeing more usage, but it is still the best Spikes setter in the tier by far. Its role in the tier hasn't changed much, and it can run pivot sets or just sit on the field and click Spikes/Toxic/Earthquake. Physdef sets are easier to run now, with the Spdef EVs that allowed it to tank a Draco no longer being needed, so on paper it's a better Korai check, but in practice the only time I see it "check" Korai is vs HO where it clicks Toxic and Protect stalls.. assuming it doesn't die to +2 Scale Shot. SD sets aside, it's a great switchin to Scarf sets, shrugging off U-turn and taking Outrage/Flare Blitz pretty well too. Against Zacian it can be set up fodder for the Tera Flying sets, but its teammates can usually deal with that. The biggest issue for Gliscor right now are the free turns it gives to Kyogre, so careful play can be required.
Calyrex-I A- -> A-(2) - Glacial Lance is just as spammable now as it was a few weeks ago. Less Ting-Lu is somewhat unfortunate for Caly, but realistically it doesn't matter that much. SD -> Trick Room -> win is still a valid strategy with this mon, and the disappearance of the primary pivot + Taunt user has made setting up all the easier when that 50/50 is no longer in consideration. It's also got the bulk to find a few set up opportunities, but it is held back by its typing that almost mandates boots as the item. LO/band sets aren't great but can pick up some surprise kills, potentially paving the way for a sweep later in the game. This mon does require fairly extensive positioning to make the most of it, but you can stumble into a spot where you click Trick Room and win the game too. Speed control is pretty good, who knew.
Giratina-O B+ -> A-(3) - Rounding out the top part of the VR is Giratina. Like with Ghostceus, the decreased usage of Ting-Lu makes Poltergeist all the more spammable, and Giratina has the bulk to make up for its lack of recovery. Tera Steel turns it into an even more solid defensive option, but it doesn't need to use Tera to force a trade with Kyogre, paralyze/burn something, or remove hazards. That last point is probably its most useful trait, as it's the only real viable mon capable of clearing webs. Recent games have shown that Giratina teams find a great matchup into webs, which is a great selling point but not its only trick. The lack of Miraion means throwing Giratina on a team doesn't mean stacking three Dragon types, and it additionally has a lot of offensive potential with Tera Ghost + Poltergeist sets. It is held back by its speed tier and lack of recovery, but imo it's a top 15 mon in the tier now in spite of that.
I didn’t really do inter-rank ordering for these next noms, but the order I thought of them in and listed them here is probably close to my actual tier ranking anyway
Kingambit B+ -> B+ - I haven't used Gambit that much, but I think it deserves to keep its spot here. Tera Dark + Dread Plate makes it extremely dangerous in the endgame once hazards are up or most mons have taken some chip damage. A defensive Tera can provide it with more set up opportunities or avoid a burn since it has the bulk to leverage a new typing. Not really much to say here since I think most people know what this mon can do.
Ribombee B -> B+ - Unsurprisingly webs, and offense, did not get worse with a Miraidon ban. If anything, the lack of the boots pivot set makes it even easier to get up webs then keep them up throughout the game. The item and moves can be customized to suit the team based on whether or not paralysis or an immediate speed boost is more preferable so it's not locked into a single set. Since Ribombee is synonymous with webs as a playstyle, B+ seems fitting for it, but I could see it higher too.
Deoxys-A B+ -> B+ - Good speed tier, good attacking stats, decent move pool options, and yet Deoxys is as frail as anything. LO sets can click Psycho Boost more freely now, but finding opportunities to come in is still challenging. Additionally, committing to Psycho Boost faces a similar problem to Miraidon in that Deoxys provides a set up opportunity once it takes the Spatk drop. This mon does reward proper positioning, but it'll rarely sweep through a team by itself. It can provide nice wall breaking ability or utility as a hazards lead, though.
Chien-Pao B+ -> B+ - Less crowded speed tier and still has a very powerful STAB combination that threatens a lot of the tier. Its biggest downsides are the Zacian interaction and wanting to fit more than 4 moves. Swords Dance sets are okay, but have their issues depending on the item & priority move choice. Band sets are great against bulkier teams but fall flat against offense, giving free turns to Koraidon when locked into a Dark move or Zacian when locked into anything. Like Deoxys, it's probably better on paper than it is in practice, but is by no means bad.
Deoxys-S B+ -> B+ - Dedicated hazards lead and now much better than Glimmora imo. Its speed tier allows it to consistently get up at least 2 layers of hazards, and its utility move pool allows it to disrupt whatever counter lead it may find itself facing. Spreading paralysis is always nice, and it can afford a lot more bulk due to its high base speed.
Grimmsnarl B -> B - Screens as a playstyle didn't really change much with the ban. Losing double dance Miraidon was pretty bad for it, and its new options are pretty lacking. That said, screens are still pretty good. Who would've guessed doubling the bulk of any mon would allow it to find more setup opportunities? The spot left by Miraidon can be filled by a few special attackers, and though they may not have as much immediate power, they also don't have to worry about losing their 1.5x damage boost after 4 turns.
Glimmora B+ -> B - An increase in Eternatus usage ruins the main advantage from using Glimmora as a hazard lead. It can still remove opposing hazards, making it good into other offense teams, but the Glimmora player now has to consider the first turn a lot more than before. Leading Glimmora was previously a (mostly) net-positive exchange, resulting in one layer of hazards and the ability to hold up a mon to use as fodder into U-turn for Toxic Spikes. That can still occur, and forcing in Eternatus to remove those Toxic Spikes may be useful for proper positioning, but in general the lead interactions are no longer as straightforward when a lot more teams have the ability to remove Glimmora's biggest selling point.
Lunala C -> B - As I've probably said too many times, less Ting-Lu means Ghost types got better. Lunala is no exception to this and has more of an offensive presence than it did previously. I'm unconvinced defensive sets are great but they might fit on some teams. Meteor Beam and Calm Mind variants are going to be where this mon primarily sees use and, though it does still have to be careful about when it attempts to sweep, I think the new meta has given it some more opportunities to see use. Even though I see it in B, a higher placement for Lunala can definitely be justified.
Iron Bundle B+ -> B - Losing Electric Terrain/free speed boost wasn't great, and I could see putting this mon even lower, but in general the speed boost it lost isn't always necessary. Boots sets still threaten Ho-Oh, Eternatus, Kyogre, etc with Freeze-Dry/Hydro and can be helpful against demon sets with Encore. It isn't as effective against Koraidon or Zacian, but it still has some utility against the rest of the tier. Booster sets late game may be able to work, but I haven't tried using them yet, so I can't really comment on how effective they are.
Kyurem-B B -> B - Doesn't really like the increase in Waterceus usage, but it's still able to find set up opportunities, especially if the opposing Waterceus dropped Wisp. It's pretty reliant on its Tera type to allow it to be as effective as possible, but it really shines against bulky teams even without needing to Tera. Fusion Bolt + Icicle Spear is a great offensive combination, and after 1 Dragon Dance and a Scale Shot it can go on to threaten pretty much everything. It's particularly vulnerable to priority, but it's in much the same spot it was before the ban.
The above noms I feel fairly certain about, with maybe a + or a – being given/taken away, but the below noms I didn’t have time to finish making the list for, or doing the write ups for, so I included just a few of the ones I thought of
Orthworm B -> B
Rayquaza B -> B
Flutter Mane B -> B-
Arceus-Dark B- -> B-
Mewtwo C -> B-
Ting-Lu A- -> B-
Groudon C+ -> B-
Zamazenta-C C -> C+
Skeledirge C -> C+
Alomomola C -> C+
Clodsire B- -> C+
Koraidon S(1) -> S(1) - Still the best mon in the tier by a large margin. Scarf sets have held the tier together since the beginning and continue to do that with Miraidon no longer in the tier. Scale Shot sets still threaten sweeps and LO wallbreaking sets still force progress. I don't think Koraidon at the #1 spot is that contentious so I'll move on. Zacian A+ -> S-(1) / S(2) - I'm not as convinced as most people this is the second best mon in the tier by such a large margin, and I definitely don't think it's at the level of Koraidon, but based on what I've seen it deserves to move up. If you had asked me before the ban where I thought it was, I'd say an easy S(3) or S-(1) due to its ability to offensively check both bikes. The Miraidon ban should have caused it to move directly up to 2nd best, but it doesn't feel quite as splashable as it used to. It may just be a building thing and I haven't figured out how to build for this meta, so I'm not going to harp on this too much. I do prefer it being in S- as opposed to S, but either spot works, and I'll be ranking the rest of S- assuming Zacian is at S(2). Ho-Oh A+ -> S-(1) - The removal of the best offensive check to Ho-Oh was probably the best thing that could happen for it. Brave Bird / Sacred Fire are both even more clickable now, and both offensive and defensive sets find more entry points throughout the course of the game. It's super easy to throw this mon on any team that isn't HO, and I think you need to have a very good reason to not put it on a balance team. Kyogre A+ -> S-(2) - I'm not entirely sold on Rest sets quite yet, but no more Electric Terrain means it does open up the possibility for Kyogre to have recovery. Even without any it's still a menace whenever it can gain entry, which is much easier for it to accomplish now. Defensive Eternatus struggles to switch in to Ice Beam / Thunder Wave, and offensive sets can't even trade with it. Kyogre is also one of the few mons that immediately threatens Ho-Oh, which by itself isn't that impressive, but offensive sets can additionally pressure many balance teams, and even trade with a mon on HO teams. Defensive sets still need to be explored some more, but similar to Ho-Oh, you need a really good reason not to bring this mon on a balance / BO team. Eternatus A- -> A+(1) / S-(3) - It's not really a surprise that Eternatus would benefit in the post-Miraidon meta when it now has one less revenge killer. It was already a good pick for many teams with its defensive utility and sweeping capabilities, but those were compounded with Miraidon's removal. Additionally, Ting-Lu dropping in usage is really nice for it, with 3 attack LO sets seeing some development as a result. It has the bulk to hit back against most of the tier, and poisoning a support Arc form can prove instrumental in setting up for the end game. Defensive sets are still able to somewhat check Kyogre but offensive sets were the primary beneficiary of the new meta. I can see an argument being made for S- or A+, and, while I prefer A+ for its ranking, I'll treat the following rankings as if it's been ranked at S-. Arceus-Fairy A+ -> A+(1) - Arceus forms are interesting to rank in the new meta, but I don't think their sets are going to change drastically. Fairy might run Thunder Wave more often with the decline of Ground types, but otherwise demon sets, CM + Taunt sets, Stealth Rocks sets, etc, are still doing the same thing they've always done. Consequently, the meta shift didn't have much of an effect on Fairyceus, and I think it'll remain the best support Arceus form that can always threaten a sweep if it's left in the back. Necrozma-Dusk-Mane S -> A+(2) - The meta shift was a mixed blessing for NDM. On the one hand, Miraidon threatened every set and either forced a Tera or a switch, but on the other the meta didn't exactly get slower for NDM to take advantage of. If anything, Arceus-Water & Arceus-Ghost becoming more viable as a result of the ban hurt it just as much as Miraidon leaving benefited it. I've never been a fan of defensive rocks sets, but Spdef sets may have more of a niche now with the increase in Eternatus usage. I think NDM is still top 10, and it's definitely still got a place on both offensive and bulkier teams, but I don't think its viability really changed that much for the better or worse. Arceus-Ground A+ -> A(1) - Slight decrease in viability but overall the ban didn't hurt it too much. People loved to say Spdef sets were fake already, but then I was also told that Ground types would drop off the face of the planet after a Miraidon ban so I have no idea where most people stand on the viability of Groundceus. Dragon Dance sets lost and gained nothing, Calm Mind sets lost the ability to set up with Miraidon but gained a decrease in Ting-Lu viability, and defensive rocks sets were never really great to begin with. The only reason I drop this is due to the increase in Ho-Oh and Kyogre teams, as I personally don't think Power Gem is a great last move on the Calm Mind sets. I'm not going to argue much if it remains A+, though. Arceus-Water A -> A(2) - Waterceus should've been a big beneficiary from the Miraidon ban, and it is, but probably not as much as you might think. Kyogre still threatens it with Thunder, Eternatus shrugs off anything thrown at it, and even Ho-Oh can click Whirlwind or fish for a burn with Sacred Fire. It's not a great Koraidon check either, with Low Kick having good odds to 2HKO after a U-turn, and definitely picking up the 2HKO if rocks are up. Is it bad? Definitely not, and it provides a solid defensive wall against Calyrex, NDM, & Zacian, among others, but I don't think it became astronomically better. The Ground types it previously threatened aren't as viable anymore, and unlike Fairyceus it can't switch into Koraidon quite as easily. Tera Poison Calm Mind sets are nice to take advantage of Eternatus and the disappearance of Taunt Miraidon does help it find a few more opportunities to set up throughout a game. However, choosing a CM set can be sub-optimal when you really want to run Wisp. Arceus-Ghost B- -> A(3) - This was already an A-/A mon before the ban and is definitely A now. It's not quite as good of a Koraidon check as Fairyceus, and can be kind of dead weight into match ups where you play a Normal type, but overall Ghost STAB is very clickable and it has coverage/utility options to handle Ekiller. Ting-Lu no longer being quite so prevalent is helpful for it, but Ho-Oh can still easily switch into the defensive sets. It isn't quite as good of a defensive support mon as Waterceus & Fairyceus imo, but it has the tools to run mostly solid offensive and defensive sets and a well played demon Ghostceus can somewhat easily find itself on the winning screen. Landorus-T A- -> A(4) - Best stopgap for dealing with both Korai & Zac, can run fast Taunt to prevent Gliscor from setting hazards, threatens quite a few mons with Quake/Edge, and can pivot out of undesirable situations. Helmet + Intimidate really makes this mon solid for chipping down Korai, and being able to revenge Zacian/force a Tera is a great bandaid on many teams that want to maintain momentum while not instantly folding to Zacian. Scarf sets are okay, mainly helping with the webs matchup and being only alright outside of it. Still, Lando has a ton of utility to offer teams and should definitely move up on the VR. Arceus A -> A(5) - Still great but no longer in the top 3 for Arceus forms imo. SD sets can be deceptively bulky and leverage that bulk to find set up opportunities where other Arceus forms cannot, and STAB Extreme Speed is just as good as it sounds, with Tera Normal or LO sets being able to threaten a lot of the tier. Ekiller wasn't really affected by the Miraidon ban, but Arceus-Water & Arceus-Ghost being more used has made its job harder, along with Ho-Oh forcing it to run Taunt or click Tera Fire, the latter of which can be very costly if there's a Tera Ghost Koraidon in the back able to revenge it. All this to say, its viability hasn't really changed, a few of the Arceus forms just became more usable than it. Gliscor A- -> A-(1) - I'm not convinced that Gliscor benefitted immensely from the ban, but it's not like it got worse. Toxic Spikes are maybe less usable now that Etern is seeing more usage, but it is still the best Spikes setter in the tier by far. Its role in the tier hasn't changed much, and it can run pivot sets or just sit on the field and click Spikes/Toxic/Earthquake. Physdef sets are easier to run now, with the Spdef EVs that allowed it to tank a Draco no longer being needed, so on paper it's a better Korai check, but in practice the only time I see it "check" Korai is vs HO where it clicks Toxic and Protect stalls.. assuming it doesn't die to +2 Scale Shot. SD sets aside, it's a great switchin to Scarf sets, shrugging off U-turn and taking Outrage/Flare Blitz pretty well too. Against Zacian it can be set up fodder for the Tera Flying sets, but its teammates can usually deal with that. The biggest issue for Gliscor right now are the free turns it gives to Kyogre, so careful play can be required. Calyrex-I A- -> A-(2) - Glacial Lance is just as spammable now as it was a few weeks ago. Less Ting-Lu is somewhat unfortunate for Caly, but realistically it doesn't matter that much. SD -> Trick Room -> win is still a valid strategy with this mon, and the disappearance of the primary pivot + Taunt user has made setting up all the easier when that 50/50 is no longer in consideration. It's also got the bulk to find a few set up opportunities, but it is held back by its typing that almost mandates boots as the item. LO/band sets aren't great but can pick up some surprise kills, potentially paving the way for a sweep later in the game. This mon does require fairly extensive positioning to make the most of it, but you can stumble into a spot where you click Trick Room and win the game too. Speed control is pretty good, who knew. Giratina-O B+ -> A-(3) - Rounding out the top part of the VR is Giratina. Like with Ghostceus, the decreased usage of Ting-Lu makes Poltergeist all the more spammable, and Giratina has the bulk to make up for its lack of recovery. Tera Steel turns it into an even more solid defensive option, but it doesn't need to use Tera to force a trade with Kyogre, paralyze/burn something, or remove hazards. That last point is probably its most useful trait, as it's the only real viable mon capable of clearing webs. Recent games have shown that Giratina teams find a great matchup into webs, which is a great selling point but not its only trick. The lack of Miraion means throwing Giratina on a team doesn't mean stacking three Dragon types, and it additionally has a lot of offensive potential with Tera Ghost + Poltergeist sets. It is held back by its speed tier and lack of recovery, but imo it's a top 15 mon in the tier now in spite of that.I didn’t really do inter-rank ordering for these next noms, but the order I thought of them in and listed them here is probably close to my actual tier ranking anyway
Kingambit B+ -> B+ - I haven't used Gambit that much, but I think it deserves to keep its spot here. Tera Dark + Dread Plate makes it extremely dangerous in the endgame once hazards are up or most mons have taken some chip damage. A defensive Tera can provide it with more set up opportunities or avoid a burn since it has the bulk to leverage a new typing. Not really much to say here since I think most people know what this mon can do. Ribombee B -> B+ - Unsurprisingly webs, and offense, did not get worse with a Miraidon ban. If anything, the lack of the boots pivot set makes it even easier to get up webs then keep them up throughout the game. The item and moves can be customized to suit the team based on whether or not paralysis or an immediate speed boost is more preferable so it's not locked into a single set. Since Ribombee is synonymous with webs as a playstyle, B+ seems fitting for it, but I could see it higher too. Deoxys-A B+ -> B+ - Good speed tier, good attacking stats, decent move pool options, and yet Deoxys is as frail as anything. LO sets can click Psycho Boost more freely now, but finding opportunities to come in is still challenging. Additionally, committing to Psycho Boost faces a similar problem to Miraidon in that Deoxys provides a set up opportunity once it takes the Spatk drop. This mon does reward proper positioning, but it'll rarely sweep through a team by itself. It can provide nice wall breaking ability or utility as a hazards lead, though. Chien-Pao B+ -> B+ - Less crowded speed tier and still has a very powerful STAB combination that threatens a lot of the tier. Its biggest downsides are the Zacian interaction and wanting to fit more than 4 moves. Swords Dance sets are okay, but have their issues depending on the item & priority move choice. Band sets are great against bulkier teams but fall flat against offense, giving free turns to Koraidon when locked into a Dark move or Zacian when locked into anything. Like Deoxys, it's probably better on paper than it is in practice, but is by no means bad. Deoxys-S B+ -> B+ - Dedicated hazards lead and now much better than Glimmora imo. Its speed tier allows it to consistently get up at least 2 layers of hazards, and its utility move pool allows it to disrupt whatever counter lead it may find itself facing. Spreading paralysis is always nice, and it can afford a lot more bulk due to its high base speed. Grimmsnarl B -> B - Screens as a playstyle didn't really change much with the ban. Losing double dance Miraidon was pretty bad for it, and its new options are pretty lacking. That said, screens are still pretty good. Who would've guessed doubling the bulk of any mon would allow it to find more setup opportunities? The spot left by Miraidon can be filled by a few special attackers, and though they may not have as much immediate power, they also don't have to worry about losing their 1.5x damage boost after 4 turns. Glimmora B+ -> B - An increase in Eternatus usage ruins the main advantage from using Glimmora as a hazard lead. It can still remove opposing hazards, making it good into other offense teams, but the Glimmora player now has to consider the first turn a lot more than before. Leading Glimmora was previously a (mostly) net-positive exchange, resulting in one layer of hazards and the ability to hold up a mon to use as fodder into U-turn for Toxic Spikes. That can still occur, and forcing in Eternatus to remove those Toxic Spikes may be useful for proper positioning, but in general the lead interactions are no longer as straightforward when a lot more teams have the ability to remove Glimmora's biggest selling point. Lunala C -> B - As I've probably said too many times, less Ting-Lu means Ghost types got better. Lunala is no exception to this and has more of an offensive presence than it did previously. I'm unconvinced defensive sets are great but they might fit on some teams. Meteor Beam and Calm Mind variants are going to be where this mon primarily sees use and, though it does still have to be careful about when it attempts to sweep, I think the new meta has given it some more opportunities to see use. Even though I see it in B, a higher placement for Lunala can definitely be justified. Iron Bundle B+ -> B - Losing Electric Terrain/free speed boost wasn't great, and I could see putting this mon even lower, but in general the speed boost it lost isn't always necessary. Boots sets still threaten Ho-Oh, Eternatus, Kyogre, etc with Freeze-Dry/Hydro and can be helpful against demon sets with Encore. It isn't as effective against Koraidon or Zacian, but it still has some utility against the rest of the tier. Booster sets late game may be able to work, but I haven't tried using them yet, so I can't really comment on how effective they are. Kyurem-B B -> B - Doesn't really like the increase in Waterceus usage, but it's still able to find set up opportunities, especially if the opposing Waterceus dropped Wisp. It's pretty reliant on its Tera type to allow it to be as effective as possible, but it really shines against bulky teams even without needing to Tera. Fusion Bolt + Icicle Spear is a great offensive combination, and after 1 Dragon Dance and a Scale Shot it can go on to threaten pretty much everything. It's particularly vulnerable to priority, but it's in much the same spot it was before the ban.The above noms I feel fairly certain about, with maybe a + or a – being given/taken away, but the below noms I didn’t have time to finish making the list for, or doing the write ups for, so I included just a few of the ones I thought of
Orthworm B -> B Rayquaza B -> B Flutter Mane B -> B- Arceus-Dark B- -> B- Mewtwo C -> B- Ting-Lu A- -> B- Groudon C+ -> B- Zamazenta-C C -> C+ Skeledirge C -> C+ Alomomola C -> C+ Clodsire B- -> C+
Hello all, I've been playing the Ubers meta for a while now, since the Miraidon ban, and I feel the meta has been pretty fun.
I'ld like to make a nomination for the VR. It's not a very top tier mon, but still, I feel it improved.
Palkia-O D -> B-/C+: Palkia improved with Miraidon gone. Kyogre and Ho-oh became much bigger threats, more meta defining than before. Palkia takes advantage of both, specially the former, as it also benefits from the Rain that is set up. The sets I've used most are offensive 4 atks and bulky RestTalk, with Surf and Spacial Rend, both modest. The first uses both Hydro Pump and Surf, alongside Spacial Rend and Scale Shot. I find that due to how good Palkia's typing is offensively, and how it's restricted by item, it's pointless to run other type coverage. Water is a good offensive type in Ubers, and having a reliable option like Surf can be really good. Scale Shot is an option to allow Palkia to get faster, and perhaps close games when faster scarfers are gone, and the opposing team is sufficiently weakened. Tera type should be water to power it's STAB even further. The bulkier set, which I prefer, runs enough speed to outrun faster variants of Arc-Ground, and enough Sp.Atk to 3 shot Kyogre. Having rest allows Palkia to keep itself healthy and continue checking Kyogre and Ho-oh. Sleep Talk enables it to not be so passive when asleep. Tera type can be steel, or other solid defensive types.
In the end, Palkia can fill some of the space Miraidon left as an offensive piece and check to dangerous threats. Still, it faces heavy competition from Koraidon and specially Eternatus, which are often better than Pal-O, and it also suffers from hazard pressure, in a meta that lacks consistent removal, but still, the case can be made for it to be used.
I'ld like to make a nomination for the VR. It's not a very top tier mon, but still, I feel it improved.
In the end, Palkia can fill some of the space Miraidon left as an offensive piece and check to dangerous threats. Still, it faces heavy competition from Koraidon and specially Eternatus, which are often better than Pal-O, and it also suffers from hazard pressure, in a meta that lacks consistent removal, but still, the case can be made for it to be used.
The first post Miraidon VR slate is here! Since the last slate we've had Edgar and Kate step down from VR council, and have added Lana, Mashing, and Taka! Thank you for your time on council Edgar and Kate and welcome to our new members. Slate can be found here with the individual votes. Feel free to ask any questions about the shifts over the next few days, this is a big slate since the metagame just completely flipped so a lot of things moved around.
Rises:
Zacian-Crowned: A+ (4) --> S (2)
Eternatus: A- (3) --> A+ (5)
Landorus-Therian: A- (5) --> A (2)
Lunala: C --> A- (1)
Kingambit: B+ --> A- (4)
Giratina-Origin: B --> B+
Ribombee: B --> B+
Kyurem-Black: B --> B+
Arceus-Ghost: B- --> B+
Mewtwo C --> B+
Skeledirge: C --> B
Blissey
: C --> B-
Arceus-Electric
: D --> B-
Alomomola: C --> C+
Ditto
: C- --> C+
Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
: C- --> C+
Arceus-Flying
: D --> C+
Dondozo
: UR --> C+
Arceus-Poison
: C- --> C
Skarmory
: C- --> C
Tyranitar
: UR --> C
Smeargle
: UR --> C
Garganacl
: UR --> C
Dachsbun
: UR --> C-
Drops:
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: S (3) --> A (1)
Ting-Lu: A- (2) --> B+
Chien-Pao: B+ --> B
Deoxys-Attack: B+ --> B
Glimmora: B+ --> B
Deoxys-Speed: B+ --> B
Arceus-Dark: B- --> C+
Iron Bundle: B+ --> C
Orthworm: B --> C
Clodsire: B- --> C
Iron Treads
: B- --> C-
Toxapex
: C --> C-
Corviknight
: C --> C-
Arceus-Grass
: C+ --> D
Sneasler
: C --> D
Great Tusk
: C- --> UR
Rises:
Zacian-Crowned
: A+ (4) --> S (2)Eternatus
: A- (3) --> A+ (5)Landorus-Therian
: A- (5) --> A (2)Lunala
: C --> A- (1)Kingambit
: B+ --> A- (4)Giratina-Origin
: B --> B+Ribombee
: B --> B+Kyurem-Black
: B --> B+Arceus-Ghost
: B- --> B+Mewtwo
C --> B+Skeledirge
: C --> BBlissey
: C --> B-Arceus-Electric
: D --> B-Alomomola
: C --> C+Ditto
: C- --> C+Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
: C- --> C+Arceus-Flying
: D --> C+Dondozo
: UR --> C+Arceus-Poison
: C- --> CSkarmory
: C- --> CTyranitar
: UR --> CSmeargle
: UR --> CGarganacl
: UR --> CDachsbun
: UR --> C-Drops:
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
: S (3) --> A (1)Ting-Lu
: A- (2) --> B+Chien-Pao
: B+ --> BDeoxys-Attack
: B+ --> BGlimmora
: B+ --> BDeoxys-Speed
: B+ --> BArceus-Dark
: B- --> C+Iron Bundle
: B+ --> COrthworm
: B --> CClodsire
: B- --> CIron Treads
: B- --> C-Toxapex
: C --> C-Corviknight
: C --> C-Arceus-Grass
: C+ --> DSneasler
: C --> DGreat Tusk
: C- --> UR
Yay VR updates are fun! Questions:
Was this meteoric rise purely a result of Miraidon leaving or was it already trending upwards before then? I recall seeing / hearing about Scarf Lunala, but have any other sets been taking off or responsible for the rise to A-?
Where is this being used? Is it a Knock + weather reset + sand reducing Morning Sun healing for stall or something else?
Dachsbun obviously has the whole wall Koraidon without needing to tera and more reliable recovery than Dondozo going on. I was wondering what differences Dachsbun enables on its structures compared to more standard stall?
Was this meteoric rise purely a result of Miraidon leaving or was it already trending upwards before then? I recall seeing / hearing about Scarf Lunala, but have any other sets been taking off or responsible for the rise to A-? Where is this being used? Is it a Knock + weather reset + sand reducing Morning Sun healing for stall or something else? Dachsbun obviously has the whole wall Koraidon without needing to tera and more reliable recovery than Dondozo going on. I was wondering what differences Dachsbun enables on its structures compared to more standard stall?
Just wondering why Clodsire fell. Sure, miraidon leaving does hurt it, but Kyogre getting better does help it, as it can be a good stopgap to Kyogre, especially choice locked variants.Clodsire
Also wondering why Kyogre didn't rise in this VR shift. Miradion was a very big threat to it, and it can now run Rest sets more effectively.
Lunala was good before Miraidons ban, arguably better even because of it being one of the mons that can potentially 1v1 a Miraidon with good moonlight/cm 50.50s into stalling out terrain. It's just a metagame trend, Lunala gained popularity once a few people started using it in SCL. A- is fine for it. it's productive on webs, balance and BO, and is one of the mons that does work in any MU. Scarf Lunala isn't so good, but HDB, Power Herb or Leftovers calm mind is great. Particularly HDB which carries so much weight in an offense MU.Yay VR updates are fun! Questions:
ttar is best in stall, fits on some balances but you need defensive allies to allow ttar to safely rest without being punished by koraidon zacian dd groundy. so best to keep it on stall. morning sun isn't that relevant, but it's a good progress maker and hooh wall on stall, while chipping and beating lots of eternatus, lunala and Mewtwo which annoy stall. resetting sun and rain is a bonus, and stall really does need to rely on chip to beat some foes.
Daschbun is really bad and I don't recommend this to anyone. It doesn't wall koraidon, a smart player will beat Daschbun with koraidon. And then the entire stall might collapse. Daschbun relies on a 50.50 every single time - consider CC 2hkoing from a LO or Adamant Kora afaik. What do you do next as Daschbun? If you wish and they SD, you have a 50.50 where you have to play rough or protect as they SD or attack. If you have a dirge in the back, this is ok.. but you concede a lot of momentum then to a hooh or ogre coming in after kora hit dasch. Or if Kora teras to fire to wall off dirge and spray it with scales. Worse: if you wish as they bring in Kyogre or Lunala then you're forced to protect to heal Dasch and they get a free CM turn. This is terrible for a stall team, unless you get lots of hazards up early in which case Dozo and friends could also do the job.
This isn't taking into account ghost, fairy, or fire tera which will make koraidon take way less damage from dasch anyway, even fighting tera suffices to beat it and that's basically the set of all teras Koraidon uses. A normal stall will use Dozo, Ho-Oh and some backup teras - probably fairy on dozo and another mon (not necessarily hooh) for Koraidon.
In theory if Daschbun worked, you could use Dirge which is better vs Zacian as long as you also use something like Skarmory which then gets you a different spikes option. This is just a weaker stall overall though.
i suppose it's more to do with the discovery that clodsire balance sucks, the meta trended more to offense during scl and remains that way. now gliscor ting ndm hooh teams which are what typical balance teams are literally feast on it, same with HO (barring webs - clod being good vs electriceus and ok vs eternatus). Stall even doesn't want clodsire anymore because Miraidon left. Kyogre is pretty good vs clodsire even, except if clodsire teras, because fishing freeze or doing 40% per ice beam is pretty productive when you only have 8 recovers
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Why didnt ho oh rise to S-/S? I have felt it to be one of the very best mons clearly better than all the A+ Mons. (Top 3 mon i argue maybe even top 2). Its one if the few fantastic fantastic defensive tera user aswell imo. Extremly pivotal and important in every battle that imho rivals even zacian (they perform diff roles but ukwim)
Hello! Forgive me if this is a stupid question but i'm rather new to Ubers
Why has Great Tusk dropped to UR? I'm using it in my team with a physical defensive spread (so that Protosynthesis boosts its defense) and it's a pretty okay check to enemy Koraidon, while being a good defensive Pokémon and a great spinner on its own.
It struggles against Lunala, sure, but it would be weird if it was the only reason why it dropped.
Or maybe I'm just dumb?
Why has Great Tusk dropped to UR? I'm using it in my team with a physical defensive spread (so that Protosynthesis boosts its defense) and it's a pretty okay check to enemy Koraidon, while being a good defensive Pokémon and a great spinner on its own.
It struggles against Lunala, sure, but it would be weird if it was the only reason why it dropped.
Or maybe I'm just dumb?
Ho-Oh was very close to rising to S, with a 5-4 split between A+ and S rank if you look at the voting sheet. I didn't feel personally it was on the level of Koraidon and Zacian just because Koraidon is a staple on all non stall teams and Zacian has the versatility of working both on BO and HO unlike Ho-Oh which only works if you're using a cheesy set on HO, being more of a bulkier team staple. Still debatable whether or not it's S rank, realistically could be, that's just my rationale. I think it's the best defensive mon in the tier by a somewhat comfortable margain and also one of the best fat breakers with its sub tera flying set, but it just doesn't have the power of Zacian and Koraidon overall. Very close though, so you could make the argument. It's almost a unanimous top 3 mon from the council members so it's definitely up there.
Tusk just kinda doesn't offer much, the issue with using it as a Koraidon check is that it doesn't actually deal much damage back unless you go play rough on a mon that's already really strapped for moveslots (eq knock spin rocks ice spinner and then it wants prough and maybe bulk up for physical mons), and more importantly it doesn't have recovery. This means scale shot sets can just hit you once then sd the next time and win, and scarf sets can pivot out a few times and rack up hazard damage / u-turn chip as tusk slowly dies. A lot of HO now use ghostceus/lunala so spinning is less valuable vs them, and being a mon that almost only deals with Koraidon just temporarily while not offering much else into the large number of special attackers tends to make it a liability.
less ting-lu, more eternatus, its a plot mon that punishes tera poison setup, the revenge killer is now koraidon and zacian instead of a boots miraidon (much less punishable)
Disclaimer- I don't play tour and only ladder
Why did landorus rise?
Why didn't kyoger rise, it feels so threatening, it does so much damage it can even 2hko itself, and koraidon can't just switch in due to fear of ice beam 176+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre in Rain: 240-283 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO?
Even timid can do it 252 SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre in Rain: 229-270 (57.1 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And it can ohko most arceus form with choice scarf tera water 252 SpA Tera Water Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Rain: 468-552 (108.5 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I don't know how valuable a plot mon that threatens tera poison set up if it is revenge by the 2 best pokemon that appears on most team
I mean deo-a at least outspeed most of the tier, threatens most of the tier with an ohko or 2hko
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Eternatus: 398-468 (94.5 - 111.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 364-432 (87.7 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Rock Slide vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 515-608 (135.8 - 160.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 203-240 (51 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Koraidon: 380-448 (111.4 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Fire Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 352-415 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 168-199 (51.6 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 168-198 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost over 2 turns vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 489-575 (110.8 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
dodge e speed with tera ghost which would let you beat arceus one on one without having to use psycho boost
4 Atk Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 322-380 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Rock Slide vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 101-120 (23.4 - 27.8%) -- 79.5% chance to 4HKO, so they shouldn't usually tera against you and if they predict the tera and you don't they just lose most of their hp
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 285-335 (71 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 329-387 (93.4 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO and most won't even be max spdef or otherwise it wouldn't be able to do its job properly
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Shadow Ball vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala: 413-486 (96.2 - 113.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 458-539 (120.2 - 141.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 415-489 (106.1 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and mewtwo can't even safely switch in to psycho boost 252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 207-243 (58.6 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -2 252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 159-187 (45 - 52.9%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 476-562 (134.8 - 159.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Now, I'm not arguing deo-a should be higher than B tier consider I'm like the few people on ladder that uses life orb deo-a that is past 1600, and I don't even remember if anyone if in 1700 besides me uses deo-a. Just wondering what advantage mewtwo have over it or is it just the bulk? Also while I have played against mewtwo, it haven't sweep me yet unless I played stupidly into it and give free set up when there is web, and even during that situation, I can still get out.
Also further disclaimer, I don't play mewtwo or landorus-t so I don't know its strength as well as I know kyoger and deo-a
Why did landorus rise?
Why didn't kyoger rise, it feels so threatening, it does so much damage it can even 2hko itself, and koraidon can't just switch in due to fear of ice beam 176+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre in Rain: 240-283 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO?
Even timid can do it 252 SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre in Rain: 229-270 (57.1 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And it can ohko most arceus form with choice scarf tera water 252 SpA Tera Water Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Arceus in Rain: 468-552 (108.5 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Can you go into more detail why it deserve B+ because not only is mewtwo not guranteed to beat eternatus since they speed tie but it can't even safely revenge it once it gets a meteor beam off +1 252 SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 288-340 (81.5 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed after stealth rock and if it isn't boots Psystrike won't guranteed ohko if you are boots 252 SpA Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 390-458 (84.2 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I don't know how valuable a plot mon that threatens tera poison set up if it is revenge by the 2 best pokemon that appears on most team
I mean deo-a at least outspeed most of the tier, threatens most of the tier with an ohko or 2hko
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Eternatus: 398-468 (94.5 - 111.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 364-432 (87.7 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Rock Slide vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 515-608 (135.8 - 160.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 203-240 (51 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Fire Koraidon: 380-448 (111.4 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tera Fire Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 352-415 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 168-199 (51.6 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 168-198 (51.6 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost over 2 turns vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 489-575 (110.8 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
dodge e speed with tera ghost which would let you beat arceus one on one without having to use psycho boost
4 Atk Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 322-380 (74.7 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Rock Slide vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 101-120 (23.4 - 27.8%) -- 79.5% chance to 4HKO, so they shouldn't usually tera against you and if they predict the tera and you don't they just lose most of their hp
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 285-335 (71 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 329-387 (93.4 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO and most won't even be max spdef or otherwise it wouldn't be able to do its job properly
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Shadow Ball vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala: 413-486 (96.2 - 113.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 458-539 (120.2 - 141.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black: 415-489 (106.1 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and mewtwo can't even safely switch in to psycho boost 252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 207-243 (58.6 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO -2 252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 159-187 (45 - 52.9%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Tera Ghost Deoxys-Attack Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mewtwo: 476-562 (134.8 - 159.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Now, I'm not arguing deo-a should be higher than B tier consider I'm like the few people on ladder that uses life orb deo-a that is past 1600, and I don't even remember if anyone if in 1700 besides me uses deo-a. Just wondering what advantage mewtwo have over it or is it just the bulk? Also while I have played against mewtwo, it haven't sweep me yet unless I played stupidly into it and give free set up when there is web, and even during that situation, I can still get out.
Also further disclaimer, I don't play mewtwo or landorus-t so I don't know its strength as well as I know kyoger and deo-a
Btw, people should really try assualt vest kyoger, it help beat its counter and other kyoger
Also alo might need to be higher because it gives wish support like to assualt vest kyoger and it counters calyrex-i and can at least prevent necrozma dusk mane from just sweeping your team
Wow what happened with bundle, that is a meteoric fall
Miraidon banned
A- -> B+/BNot a bad 'mon but it doesn't fit in as many teams as the other stuff in A-. Every set also has significant drawbacks: fast taunt sets (the best, imo) just don't have enough bulk to live hits, while slower sets feel too passive and having to constantly click tect is extremely exploitable. Also struggles to fit all the moves it wants.
B- -> B+Getting an instant boost from sun gives it a unique niche. Strong option on BO and Offense with a variety of sets and tera types. It has slightly higher usage on ladder than Kyub, Mew2, and Arc-G, which are all rated B+, so I think it makes sense to slot this thing up next to them.
B+ -> A-/AThe recent metagame has veered away from boots spam (Kyogre's most used items on ladder before Mirai ban were boots, now Scarf and Specs are top 2, as one example). Glimmora only works on HO, and Corv is Balance/Stall only, so a lot of teams only have Gira as the only real option for viable hazard control (Terapagos and Treads are shitmons).
B+ -> CDark/Ground typing is a curse in a tier without Miraidon. This thing already struggled with how passive it was before Mirai's ban, and it's only gotten worse since then. You can cope about whirlwind or spikes, but it can't afford to run rest, meaning it just gets chipped down over time. Not to mention kids shouldn't be allowed to see what happens when Korai or Zac get doubled in on this thing.
UR -> CI wrote a longer post about this, but it's an option as a special wall that has reliable recovery, rocks and para to prevent being as passive as Lu in a lot of matchups. It can also be used on certain stall teams. It has too many issues to be consistently good, but it's used on ladder a fair amount (it has similar usage to Ditto, NDW, and Fraud-Lu in December).
C -> URNot sure why these are even ranked at this point.
Iron Bundle is Ubers naturally so it would be D rank at worst
Not sure why these are even ranked at this point.