Resource SV UU DLC 2 Viability Rankings- Update at Post #85

Tree69420

早上好中国、现在我有bing chilling!
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:golurk: nomming mr lurkingtons to C+
kinda like alternate ursaluna, the ghost typing punishes rapid spin attempts, walls coba and drain punch/tpunch kommo sets, the speed tier lets it outspeed 200 speed creepers such as mandi, sinis, and some metas, also has more longevity due to no burn chip
 

gulch

formerly Melt Gibson
is a Forum Moderator
:golurk: nomming mr lurkingtons to C+
kinda like alternate ursaluna, the ghost typing punishes rapid spin attempts, walls coba and drain punch/tpunch kommo sets, the speed tier lets it outspeed 200 speed creepers such as mandi, sinis, and some metas, also has more longevity due to no burn chip

agree w this, i experimented with AV lurk earlier this gen a la SM and it's surprisingly viable, able to really fuck w hydrapple and latios. kinda functions as an alternative to mamoswine w some form of defensive utility and iron fist ice punch is no slouch in the damage department against a lot of common threats like torn, zap, etc, while also spinblocking and being able to threaten exca if healthy
 

gulch

formerly Melt Gibson
is a Forum Moderator
some noms bc i haven't made a post on this thread in fuckin forever

:cobalion:
A- > A

alright, I drank the koolaid on this one, mon's goated. a rock setter that's not a total dud defensively and also not super passive is just hard to find right now, and cobalion manages that while also having a bunch of OTHER super nice traits to boot. volt to keep momentum is solid, especially since most grounds aren't safe into you due to a combination of being faster/threatening them with CC, and specifically being faster than and able to deal fairly solid damage to excadrill is great. the bulk is juuuust serviceable enough without investment that you can get away with switching into some stray neutral phys hits too so it's really effective at keeping rocks up over the course of the game too. too many hazard setters rn are unfortunately kinda one pump chumps which just doesn't cut it in a meta where a top 3 mon is carrying rapid spin 99% of the time. cobalt's built different though and i think it's for sure on par with the other stuff in A.

:mimikyu:
B- > B

HO teams kinda rely on this mon to function since it's the only decent ghost available and having to reactively tera just to keep hazards up is often not optimal unless it's gonna outright win you the game. even then, HO has a bunch of mons that wanna use the tera instead to improve matchups and close out games like kommo, crown, and greninja. if you're not running a very specific archetype of HO like psyspam, this is probably worth considering if not just slotting outright because of how capable it is at just keeping your hazard game sustainable. red card sets are also very effective at swinging momentum against setup attempts thanks to disguise and how much the defensive typing has to offer at base. it's also fairly unconcerned with using tera since most of the time you're using this for its base typing, but stuff like tera fire can be cool in a pinch if you want to go for game with it. i don't think B- aptly represents how key this mon is to the archetype tbh.

:kommo-o:
A > A+

assuming this is still here by the time the next round of votes goes through, this feels like a relatively non-controversial take? the defensive typing is able to take advantage of a good few things and force awkward coverage choices on some teams, which in conjunction with its fair bulk means it's able to force a lot of setup opportunities. between taunt, sub, tera, and set guessing games, it has a lot of ways to fuck with anything that attempts to stop it before it deals significant damage, and it's not starved for coverage in the slightest either. it can still run into some awkward situations, and teching for it isn't impossible (if anything i'd compare it to SM scizor where it's so massively present within the tier that every team ends up naturally packing some form of insurance against it), but it's proven itself to be a very effective wincon and i think it's definitely as good as the others in A+.

:zapdos:
S- > A+

meta defining mon, just don't think it's significantly better enough to warrant an entire subrank of its own above the three in A+.

:rotom-wash:
B+ > B

where has this been? no, really, i have seen ZERO on the ladder lately. i get what this does in theory, it's a fat(?) water that can threaten with reasonable chip while still being able to pivot like slowking, and it also kinda helps against sand rush exca? low base hp pain split is also always nice, but man, i am just not seeing what this does in a world where our best ground has mold breaker and slowking exists. you get turbo goobed by kommo too, if that's still here by the time the next slate happens. AV torn makes your life pretty miserable too since you're not carrying an electric move aside from volt switch and it's kinda just free real estate to let it knock/fish for poisons/farm regen heals. ability shield is cool conceptually but unfortunately just ends up being a waste of your item slot on a on that really wants the passive recovery from leftovers and is very likely going to be a prime target for knockers anyway. twave/willo mindgames are cool but i don't think this offers enough compared to the other waters to justify the placement.
 
:zapdos:
S- > A+

meta defining mon, just don't think it's significantly better enough to warrant an entire subrank of its own above the three in A+.

:rotom-wash:
B+ > B

where has this been? no, really, i have seen ZERO on the ladder lately. i get what this does in theory, it's a fat(?) water that can threaten with reasonable chip while still being able to pivot like slowking, and it also kinda helps against sand rush exca? low base hp pain split is also always nice, but man, i am just not seeing what this does in a world where our best ground has mold breaker and slowking exists. you get turbo goobed by kommo too, if that's still here by the time the next slate happens. AV torn makes your life pretty miserable too since you're not carrying an electric move aside from volt switch and it's kinda just free real estate to let it knock/fish for poisons/farm regen heals. ability shield is cool conceptually but unfortunately just ends up being a waste of your item slot on a on that really wants the passive recovery from leftovers and is very likely going to be a prime target for knockers anyway. twave/willo mindgames are cool but i don't think this offers enough compared to the other waters to justify the placement.
agree with the rises but I think you're underselling the electrics here. Zapdos blanket checks plenty of physical threats while threatening static on contact and has powerful volt switch's and hurricanes. I'd argue the only reason it's only S- is because it competes with tornadus(who is also scared of it.)

I don't how you haven't seen rotom on ladder since I see it more then stuff like azu and harc, but he's fine. Being one of the only wisp user is pretty nice. I don't get what you mean for torn beating it. It can just volt switch or threaten to cripple it with para. Exca can't switch in to it or it risks burn or hydro pump, and even if it does, it has plenty of switch-ins to cover it. as for kommo-o, that Mon might be getting banned like you said, but either way its scared of switching in on status plus it can just get volt-switched on. generally wash is a good Mon with a few downsides and bad match-ups. I think b+ is pretty accurate
 

Tree69420

早上好中国、现在我有bing chilling!
is a Tiering Contributor
:rotom-wash:
B+ > B

where has this been? no, really, i have seen ZERO on the ladder lately. i get what this does in theory, it's a fat(?) water that can threaten with reasonable chip while still being able to pivot like slowking, and it also kinda helps against sand rush exca? low base hp pain split is also always nice, but man, i am just not seeing what this does in a world where our best ground has mold breaker and slowking exists. you get turbo goobed by kommo too, if that's still here by the time the next slate happens. AV torn makes your life pretty miserable too since you're not carrying an electric move aside from volt switch and it's kinda just free real estate to let it knock/fish for poisons/farm regen heals. ability shield is cool conceptually but unfortunately just ends up being a waste of your item slot on a on that really wants the passive recovery from leftovers and is very likely going to be a prime target for knockers anyway. twave/willo mindgames are cool but i don't think this offers enough compared to the other waters to justify the placement.
agreed i feel like its so easily pressured by exca and hazards, even teams that theoretically struggle with it can just keep voltturning with hazards up and especially once it takes status and/or gets knocked (it will take status if it keeps switching into torn and slowking) it just like dies
 

gulch

formerly Melt Gibson
is a Forum Moderator
I don't how you haven't seen rotom on ladder since I see it more then stuff like azu and harc, but he's fine. Being one of the only wisp user is pretty nice. I don't get what you mean for torn beating it. It can just volt switch or threaten to cripple it with para. Exca can't switch in to it or it risks burn or hydro pump, and even if it does, it has plenty of switch-ins to cover it. as for kommo-o, that Mon might be getting banned like you said, but either way its scared of switching in on status plus it can just get volt-switched on. generally wash is a good Mon with a few downsides and bad match-ups. I think b+ is pretty accurate
so fun fact after i made this post i saw like 4 washing machines on ladder LOL

fwiw i didnt say torn beats rotom-w outright (it doesn't), it just makes your life very very hard since volt switch damage after AV and regen is pretty negligible, and like tree said, if ur coming in consistently on things like torn, king, and pex, you are extremely prone to getting knocked and statused which cuts hard into your overall longevity alongside hazards
 
:rotom-wash:
B+ > B

where has this been? no, really, i have seen ZERO on the ladder lately. i get what this does in theory, it's a fat(?) water that can threaten with reasonable chip while still being able to pivot like slowking, and it also kinda helps against sand rush exca? low base hp pain split is also always nice, but man, i am just not seeing what this does in a world where our best ground has mold breaker and slowking exists. you get turbo goobed by kommo too, if that's still here by the time the next slate happens. AV torn makes your life pretty miserable too since you're not carrying an electric move aside from volt switch and it's kinda just free real estate to let it knock/fish for poisons/farm regen heals. ability shield is cool conceptually but unfortunately just ends up being a waste of your item slot on a on that really wants the passive recovery from leftovers and is very likely going to be a prime target for knockers anyway. twave/willo mindgames are cool but i don't think this offers enough compared to the other waters to justify the placement.
hard agree, being a pivot and being forced to run lefties cause that's your only recovery is kinda tough and you can just whittle it down with hazards until lategame when you clean with mienshao or something
 
B -> B+
Thundy-T is just one of the few Pokemon capable of single-handedly dismantling the common defensive cores, particularly ones relying on Hydrapple + Tornadus-T. There is a decent amount of flexibility with its coverage and choice of tera to either better or more reliably break certain things. Zapdos is a massive pain for offense so I think it solidifies a strong placement on those styles too. The Speed tier holds it back a lot against Latios, Rockpon, and Gren + can be Tera Blast/Weather Ball reliant. B+ seems reasonable imo, that and/or drop Raikou because I think Thundy is better than it.

B- -> B
All three of these Fairy types could rise tbh. Enam-T is more self-sufficient than Comfey with great coverage for Steel-types and more immediate power to break Tornadus-T, Slowking, etc. It is also stone walls Hydrapple. Mimikyu is just a great tool for HO to deal with massive threats like Kommo-o, bulky CM Latios, etc. efficiently as Red Card can always be activated to force them out and potentially give Mimikyu two opportunities to boost with SD. I've been smoked by Comfey several times, it can be so obnoxious to deal with especially if they Tera at the right moment when trying to accumulate CM boosts. Tera Blast Ground more or less cooks all of its usual checks and can easily put you in a tight spot.

B+ -> A-
Okidogi rarely gains much traction on the ladder, even when it used to be really really good, but I think it is a solid Pokemon rn. Great check to Rockpon, Ttar, and most Kommo-o. Can be difficult to wear down with a strong Drain Punch coming off it + the upside of potentially putting Pokemon like Zapdos, Slowking, etc. on a timer is massive. Very customizable for what you want it to achieve and can either be a strong wallbreaker with CB or a win-con with BU.

B- -> C+/C
Bisharp had that one point where it popped back up a bit but that has kind of disappeared. Zapdos, Cobalion, Kommo-o, Okidogi, etc. just completely shut Bisharp down. Mandibuzz has fallen off substantially so using it as a Defog deterrent isn't remotely as good for offense either. There are better choices for offensive Steel-types, though it can still find a place on specific structures.

B -> B-
Feel like this is the same as Bisharp, the meta just doesn't seem kind to it at all. I think Scarf is awful personally so the only real set I see value in is the BU/SD set, which needs a lot of support and can be extremely Tera reliant to pop off.

B+ -> B
I just think Mandibuzz is pretty garbo and is only really effective on specific structures, particularly bulkier shit. Despite being the only Defog user it comes with so many downsides it can be difficult to justify using it. It has a poor matchup with almost every SR setter in the tier such as Cobalion, Tink, Harcanine, Tyranitar, etc. It only handles a few things well defensively, like Scizor and Excadrill, so it can sometimes struggle to find opportunities to Defog without taking an unfavorable trade. Latios, Kommo-o, Lokix, and even Excadrill can all overwhelm it and have means to cripple Mandi to limit how effective it might be. Mandi is also kind of gate-kept into Toxic if it doesn't want to get walked over by Zapdos.

It still does okay into HO and usually gets to trade 1 for 1 as usual but I don't see that as something super unique to it. In most cases, it will be inferior to Zapdos or Tornadus-T and you will be better off running Exca or just no removal.

I also agree with the
drop. Awful matchup against Latios and Hydrapple, gets chipped by Tornadus-T and Zapdos too easily, Excadrill is too common for it to be an effective Ground resist, and Kommo-o can use it as fodder if Taunt or Sub.
 

Monky25

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Hello UU, we've got a different kind of update for you today. Recently, the VR team discussed whether or not a C+ rank was needed, for the Pokemon contained in that rank were largely on par with most of C rank and we felt that often times the decision between a Pokemon that's C+ and C to be weirdly arbitrary at times. Plus, B- and C+ arguably fill very similar roles of representing Pokemon that are considered mediocre yet still maintain solid enough presences in UU to have an established niche and thus not really be a topic of whether to stay or be unranked. As such, the VR team has decided to try something new and remove the C+ rank, dropping every Pokemon in that rank into C. Any changes that end up out of place will be adjusted for at our update in the end of June right before tier shifts. We have seen some great posts in the VR thread as of late, and we encourage and hope for many more posts regarding changes that may be worth pursing with the merger of C+ and C as well as other changes throughout the VR.
 

gulch

formerly Melt Gibson
is a Forum Moderator
wanted to post some noms, thoughts on removal of C+, and also some commentary on other noms :3


B+ -> A-
Okidogi rarely gains much traction on the ladder, even when it used to be really really good, but I think it is a solid Pokemon rn. Great check to Rockpon, Ttar, and most Kommo-o. Can be difficult to wear down with a strong Drain Punch coming off it + the upside of potentially putting Pokemon like Zapdos, Slowking, etc. on a timer is massive. Very customizable for what you want it to achieve and can either be a strong wallbreaker with CB or a win-con with BU.
Agree with this heavily, Bulk Up Okiogi is a fucking menace. The ability to check any physical Kommo-o with reasonable self-sustain and pretty much autowinning into balance and fat thanks to Knock Off and Toxic Chain is a very potent combination of traits. Mon's goated.


B -> B-
Feel like this is the same as Bisharp, the meta just doesn't seem kind to it at all. I think Scarf is awful personally so the only real set I see value in is the BU/SD set, which needs a lot of support and can be extremely Tera reliant to pop off.
Disagree, Jungle Healing is a VERY potent tool on a setup sweeper in a meta where status is so insanely common. "Loses to Zapdos" as a trait for a physical setup mon right now is very common, and if anything, Zarude can threaten it more than others thanks to the ability to remove boots and not being as scared of Static or random Heat Wave burns. While a bit awkward, 105 Speed is also good enough to get the jump on a lot of things, notably punishing bulkier spreads for mons like Latios and being able to outpace things Kommo-o, Ursaluna, and Okidogi can't. I can see the point of it needing dedicated support, U-turn is a bitch. However, I believe it's much more possible than you're letting on. ThatOneApple recently gave me a Zarude spread that turned into these teams, and I've found them both decently effective.

Also agree with Mandibuzz drop, Bisharp drop, and Comfey rise, although I don't really have much to say on those that hasn't already been said. Not opposed to Thundurus-T going up, not super convinced on Enamorus-T. Do agree Thundy > Raikou if only because the latter is more awkward to fit while the former can pretty handily slot into most offense squads.

On the removal of C+, I think this is mostly a good thing. Not a lot of distinction between the tiers and I think very few of the new C-rank mons are cut out for B-. HOWEVER, there are exceptions:

:mew:
This is on one of the more popular samples at the moment and is a decently effective hazard lead with nearly every utility option you could ever ask for. Big role player for HO, similar to Mimikyu, but slightly less potent since there are other options that do this thing's job like Sandy Shocks or lead Excadrill.

:indeedee:
PsyTerrain doesn't exist without this, bump it up.

:donphan:
The Chinese Offense from LT has convinced me that AV Donphan is actually good, at least better than a good plenty of the other shitters in C.

:ogerpon-cornerstone:
A- > A
I'm not gonna lie, not entirely convinced on this having dropped to begin with. Especially if it turns out Iron Crown is going to rise next month, checks to this are going to start becoming very slim. With the exception of Kommo-o, +2 Corner beats the brakes off of pretty much everything, and it can even tech Play Rough for that. Lokix works at times, but if it's running Spiky Shield, you're either forced to play First Impression mindgames, carry Sucker Punch (also prone to mindgames), or find another way to check it. Zapdos can't check it thanks to Ivy Cudgel and the occasional Knock Off making the switch unsafe, and while 110 is a crowded speed tier, Sturdy means it can afford to take a lot of coinflips at full health considering the reward for winning is a dead Latios. It also functions well as a lead against a lot of balance teams that simply just can not afford to switch anything other than Hydrapple into it unless they guess right. Horn Leech with Sturdy and the Sp.Def boost it gets on sand teams also give it a deceptive amount of defensive utility. I frankly don't think this ever stopped being an A-rank contender.

:tyranitar:
A > A-
Hurt by Kommo-o becoming insanely more common and Cobalion's rise to fame, and while it's still a better sand setter than Hippowdon in a majority of cases thanks to access to Knock Off and being able to do actual damage, I still feel like it's not quite on par with the rest of A considering how many things have the potential to completely goob it.

:empoleon:
B > B-
Simply too passive to really get anything done. Roost is nice, recovery on a Steel is a trait unique to it, but it's not enough to compare to the breaking power of Metagross, utility of Tinkaton, or Cobalion's habit of generally just being decent at everything. It is, by and large, the worst utility Steel in the tier with the exception of Bisharp, and I think a drop to B- reflects that well enough.
 

spell

OF THE VOID
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I too disagree with the Zarude drop because frankly I think it is a little absurd but I wanted to go a little more in depth.

Zarude’s most important trait is definitely how suffocating it can be against a lot of Regenerator + Zapdos + Cobalion structures that are running around as it is one of three Pokemon that I can comfortably say “abuse” the reliance of Slowking as a catch all defensive backbone for these playstyles, consistently coming in to spread knocks or heal off static for completely free whenever. The things that do outspeed you don’t beat you often as well; Tornadus-Therian loses the 1v1 once you Tera, but you’re running Zapdos alongside Zarude 99% of the time so in reality you just need a Static proc which would let you keep HP. Both Ogerpon formes do not beat you reliably as Cornerstone can only come in on it once and Teal just loses the 1v1 to Tera Poison. Greninja is awkward because you only 2HKO Terad Zarude with Ice Beam, so it can just knock you out cleanly with Power Whip. Tera Poison lets you beat both Cobalion and Lokix (Lokix is why I do not use Ghost, use Poison), so naturally the best way to mount pressure on it is to just limit the amount of opportunities it gets to come in and if you can force a Tera whichever it is early on you can gameplan accordingly. Latios is probably the best offensive tool you can have against it and Hydrapple, Okidogi, Ursaluna, Terad Rhyperior and Tinkaton can act as midgame stops / Pokemon that can effectively force a one for one trade with Zarude. It is the ultimate one man army in most cases and needs Tera on the table to accomplish this.

Naturally all of this sounds like I am singing all of Zarude’s praises, which I kind of am, it’s a really good Pokemon in this tier and it should be used more but I will highlight that all of this is contingent on Zarude safely getting on the field and having that one free turn, you still can force it into awkward Jungle Healing cycles with Zapdos a lot of the time and if you eat a para or two you’re pretty much done for. It’s rarely something that should sweep since it has the mid game board opener genes but the prerequisite conditions needed for it to just win are minimal depending on the matchup. What it does do in the builder regardless of all of these things is really important and an amazing set of characteristics to have so that alone before looking at how it can actually apply all of this a real game state make me want to keep it from dropping. In fact, it should legit be higher than where it is currently. It is by leaps and bounds superior to Ogerpon. Have a nice night! :skrelp:

EDIT: Also, I think for now I would hold off on dropping Empoleon because we are currently living in a renaissance for Choice Specs and Soul Dew (lacking both Thunderbolt and Aura Sphere, basically Calm Mind exclusively I guess unless there are some brave souls running Flip + Recover) Latios and it is the only Steel-Type that can consistently check that over a long period of time. Tinkaton can only stave it off for a decent amount of time but it’s whole thing is that it loses its Leftovers Turn 2 anyway so yeah basically just Empoleon can do this. Very important thing to think about in the builder too. Also Tyranitar is still amazing! Just use Choice Band, it still has no switchins.
 
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:tyranitar:
A > A-
Hurt by Kommo-o becoming insanely more common and Cobalion's rise to fame, and while it's still a better sand setter than Hippowdon in a majority of cases thanks to access to Knock Off and being able to do actual damage, I still feel like it's not quite on par with the rest of A considering how many things have the potential to completely goob it.
I must say that this proposal does not understand the essence of ttar. In Pokemon, there are two types of mons: those that are happier with more pokemon that they can check or counter, and those that are happier with fewer pokemon that they can counter to themselves. The former type does not mind being countered but prefers to have more of its own checks. This type is represented by bulky pivots such as slowking and zapdos, and walls such as mandibuzz. Sweepers such as greninja are a perfect example of the latter type of Pokemon, which do not care if they cannot defeat their opponent from a switch-in, but want to avoid being countered.
And ttar is a pokemon that falls exactly into the former type, and even if its own checks increase, it does not matter if it has a sufficient checklist of its own, such as zapdos and latios. It is a different story if it cannot touch any counters at all, like slowking against keldeo, but ttar can threaten cobalion with an earthquake, and the clangerous soul kommo-o obviously does not want to get knocked off.


B+ -> A-
Okidogi rarely gains much traction on the ladder, even when it used to be really really good, but I think it is a solid Pokemon rn. Great check to Rockpon, Ttar, and most Kommo-o. Can be difficult to wear down with a strong Drain Punch coming off it + the upside of potentially putting Pokemon like Zapdos, Slowking, etc. on a timer is massive. Very customizable for what you want it to achieve and can either be a strong wallbreaker with CB or a win-con with BU.
I agree, but I would also like to mention the AoA set I have been using for a long time. okidogi always wants to use both psychic fangs and knock off and can be a nuisance without bulk up to many teams due to the presence of toxic chains. With the use of assault vest, it is also possible to deal with hydrapple and even forcefully hit tornadus therian by gunk shot.

I also agree with the rise of thendurus therian and fairies, and I agree that zarude is superior to ogerpon, but I think the drop of ogerpon is more appropriate. mandibuzz's B looks overkill, considering that the pokemon in B is at a much lower level.
 
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olivia

bellibolt saleswoman
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
:pmd/bellibolt:

Ladies and gentlemen I think its time we discuss a true threat. Bellibolt. Has anyone ever even seen a Bisharp? A Terrakion? I can't even tell you what Bisharp even does. Can we stop disrespecting a goat? Now I understand Zapdos exists, and I understand Slowking exists but Bellibolt is capable of keeping Torn and Zapdos in check, threaten defensive waters like Slowking, Toxapex, and Empoleon (does anyone use this guy? Rotom-Wash too while we're at it) while also demonically monstering Lokix out of a job. Tinkaton doesn't even feel comfortable fighting it, reliant on encoring it into stats moves/Slack and running the risk of Static from its Knock Off. Scizor? Ate for breakfast. Azumarill? Awhomarill (Ngl I don't think Bellibolt can handle a BD one but that doesn't fit my narrative). Wanna deal with Latios? Tera Fairy Tera Blast. Gone. Muddy Water 2HKO's Ground switch ins like Excadrill and Mamoswine while also making Rhyperior terastalise into a Martian so not even they can feel comfortable switching in on it. It can even run SpDef or even AV sets, with AV allowing it to lean into its epic ability Electromorphosis with some lovely SpA investment and actually become a major heater threat. I even OHKO'd a Hydrapple with Ice Weather Ball one time. The only reason this guy isn't top of the pickrates is because people are still coping that Zapdos is still good with its Hurricanes and Heat Waves that NEVER land. ok zapdos is pretty good but like still. Anyway I could definitely keep going but I will allow you guys to consider the information presented above. I am 100% unbiased you can trust me.

C > B-/B ok probably B- but a girl can dream

Honestly just put him in S tier.
 
:pmd/bellibolt:

Ladies and gentlemen I think its time we discuss a true threat. Bellibolt. Has anyone ever even seen a Bisharp? A Terrakion? I can't even tell you what Bisharp even does. Can we stop disrespecting a goat? Now I understand Zapdos exists, and I understand Slowking exists but Bellibolt is capable of keeping Torn and Zapdos in check, threaten defensive waters like Slowking, Toxapex, and Empoleon (does anyone use this guy? Rotom-Wash too while we're at it) while also demonically monstering Lokix out of a job. Tinkaton doesn't even feel comfortable fighting it, reliant on encoring it into stats moves/Slack and running the risk of Static from its Knock Off. Scizor? Ate for breakfast. Azumarill? Awhomarill (Ngl I don't think Bellibolt can handle a BD one but that doesn't fit my narrative). Wanna deal with Latios? Tera Fairy Tera Blast. Gone. Muddy Water 2HKO's Ground switch ins like Excadrill and Mamoswine while also making Rhyperior terastalise into a Martian so not even they can feel comfortable switching in on it. It can even run SpDef or even AV sets, with AV allowing it to lean into its epic ability Electromorphosis with some lovely SpA investment and actually become a major heater threat. I even OHKO'd a Hydrapple with Ice Weather Ball one time. The only reason this guy isn't top of the pickrates is because people are still coping that Zapdos is still good with its Hurricanes and Heat Waves that NEVER land. ok zapdos is pretty good but like still. Anyway I could definitely keep going but I will allow you guys to consider the information presented above. I am 100% unbiased you can trust me.

C > B-/B ok probably B- but a girl can dream

Honestly just put him in S tier.
I also follow the path of Bellibolt (?

Could you bring other sets that can currently be used in the meta?



I brought an idea that seemed curious to me.



1716429670759.png

Bellibolt @ Assault Vest

Ability: Electromorphosis

Tera Type: Ice

EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpA / 68 SpD

Quiet Nature

- Parabolic Charge

- Sucker Punch

- Tera Blast

- Muddy Water



It has some flaws, but this fat (cute) ball threatens a lot of special attackers in the meta. Pokémon like Zapdos or Greninja won't be able to do enough damage to kill it, and Pokémon like Latios or Sandy Shocks won't be able to withstand a Tera Ice + Sucker Punch. It also serves to catch Hydrapple and Thundurus off guard, it has Muddy Water in case you manage to predict the entry of Excadrill or any ground-type mon.



obviously it's not perfect, it screws up a lot of pokemon that boost themselves in his face, but otherwise it's very fun to use, the point is to surround it with a good team.
 

olivia

bellibolt saleswoman
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
I also follow the path of Bellibolt (?

Could you bring other sets that can currently be used in the meta?

Bellibolt @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Tera Type: Dragon / Water
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Muddy Water
- Toxic
- Slack Off

Bellibolt @ Assault Vest
Ability: Electromorphosis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 SpA / 24 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Volt Switch
- Tera Blast
- Muddy Water

Probably the only two sets you'll ever need

In UUbers for a while I was using this but I don't think this tier has any Zacians running around

Bellibolt @ Shuca Berry / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Slack Off
- Toxic
- Volt Switch

If ur a draft player you can do this epic screens build just dont get taunted

Bellibolt @ Light Clay
Ability: Static
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Slack Off
- Volt Switch

Mans bare versatile
 
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amyayayy

Tournament Banned
:pmd/bellibolt:

Ladies and gentlemen I think its time we discuss a true threat. Bellibolt. Has anyone ever even seen a Bisharp? A Terrakion? I can't even tell you what Bisharp even does. Can we stop disrespecting a goat? Now I understand Zapdos exists, and I understand Slowking exists but Bellibolt is capable of keeping Torn and Zapdos in check, threaten defensive waters like Slowking, Toxapex, and Empoleon (does anyone use this guy? Rotom-Wash too while we're at it) while also demonically monstering Lokix out of a job. Tinkaton doesn't even feel comfortable fighting it, reliant on encoring it into stats moves/Slack and running the risk of Static from its Knock Off. Scizor? Ate for breakfast. Azumarill? Awhomarill (Ngl I don't think Bellibolt can handle a BD one but that doesn't fit my narrative). Wanna deal with Latios? Tera Fairy Tera Blast. Gone. Muddy Water 2HKO's Ground switch ins like Excadrill and Mamoswine while also making Rhyperior terastalise into a Martian so not even they can feel comfortable switching in on it. It can even run SpDef or even AV sets, with AV allowing it to lean into its epic ability Electromorphosis with some lovely SpA investment and actually become a major heater threat. I even OHKO'd a Hydrapple with Ice Weather Ball one time. The only reason this guy isn't top of the pickrates is because people are still coping that Zapdos is still good with its Hurricanes and Heat Waves that NEVER land. ok zapdos is pretty good but like still. Anyway I could definitely keep going but I will allow you guys to consider the information presented above. I am 100% unbiased you can trust me.

C > B-/B ok probably B- but a girl can dream

Honestly just put him in S tier.
100 percent agree
 

Monky25

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:Zapdos: to A+: Zapdos has been falling off a good bit lately to where I don’t really think S- is necessary for it and it can just join A+. In addition to Zapdos not being that much better than Lokix/Slowking/Apple to be in a separate subrank, being rather close in usage to them, I also think Zapdos has been kinda flopping as a whole lately. Between the lack of Speed to get the jump on the likes of Latios and Ogerpon-Cornerstone and no Regenerator, Zapdos’s downsides have come to be a lot more apparent in tournament games lately compared to Torn, where not only does it struggle in matchups against some of the most deadly threats like Greninja and Latios that Torn handles more easily, it also gets put in weird situations like having its Heavy-Duty Boots removed rather quickly and generally being limited in its chances to click Roost, especially in a more offensive oriented metagame. We’re not in an era where it can Roost on a lot of the team and still function as both a wallbreaker and a defensive Pokemon, rather now Zapdos feels stretched thin and generally gets overwhelmed by the amount of breakers present in the metagame as well as stuff like Excadrill and Hydrapple that it doesn’t comfortably want to take on even. The sheer dominance of Ursaluna as well as HO both don’t do it any favors either

:Ursaluna: to A-/A: Ursaluna has been really potent lately with both Bulk Up and Flame Orb set in tournaments absolutely feasting on common playstyle like sand and regen spam while generally being difficult to stop and trading with a lot of the threats in the tier. Ursaluna is actually stupidly tanky and oftentimes underprepared teams have to dedicate several mons to taking it down. If this wasn’t enough, it also has some pretty nice Tera flexibility in options like Dragon, Ghost, or Fairy to subvert counterplay attempts into Pokemon just to take them out. It’s been on a good range of play styles from HO to BO to more offensive oriented balance and generally feels like a main player of the metagame to break into A- or even A. There's a growing movement arguing its broken even, and while I myself think its a bit premature, I cannot deny how good Ursaluna has looked lately and how it should rise into the A ranks

:Arcanine-Hisui: to B+: This mon got just one use in WCOP pools LOOOL why is this in the A ranks still, even the clanger ban didn't save this

:Mienshao: to B: Mienshao hasn’t really been present at the level a B+ Pokemon should be, notably lacking in usage on both the ladder and tournaments greatly compared to the other Pokemon in B+. While liking the ban of Kommo-o, Mienshao still suffers from being a bit too awkward as a progress maker, generally relying on clicking the right coverage at the right time to do anything and largely just ends up as a U-turn bot in the little games it does show up. Alternatives like Okidogi and Hoopa-U have been the more prevalent alternative Choice Scarf users, and while they don’t outright revenge kill +1 Excadrill, they still exert offensive pressure as a whole throughout the match more reliably and have various ways to make up for that issue, not to mention fast Mon + priority is as present as always. Mienshao is still a solid option to use but it’s fallen off a good bit from its peak where it’s no longer part of the meta so to speak and fits better in B tier

:Skeledirge: to B: Skeledirge was already difficult to fit in the metagame with the vast majority of offensive threats powering through it, but the departure of our dear Kommo-o has left Skeledirge with seldom reasons to be used. The natural typing is pretty eh with foes like Comfey and Iron Crown using Tera to bypass you anyway while others like Okidogi can now ruin you with just a simple coverage move. The truth is having such a major tera sink is really detrimental to building and Skeledirge wants multiple tera types to cover a range of threats but can’t get everything it wants. For example, Tera Fairy is a good counter to Hydrapple, but at the same time adopting other Tera Types like Water or Steel to handle other threats like Greninja or Latios is also good and each tera type honestly fails to give enough value across the board as a whole. Not really part of the tier and as such does not deserve the B+ rank

:Hoopa-Unbound: to B/B+: Stupidly good scarfer due to the sheer power it packs especially against offensive teams. A lot of our dark resists largely just lack longevity and Hoopa-U being able to come in, get that nice damage on the Tinkaton or Cobalion, and come back later in the game to make progress is key in enabling other teammates to win the game. Just partner with Excadrill and Lokix insurance and you’re good. Its usage across WCOP and UULT has been incredible and while a rise to B certainly is needed at minimum, there's a pretty great case you can justify a rise to B+

:Empoleon: to B-: Idc if it’s a Steel with longevity this fucker has been in the single digits usage wise since like UUPL we cannot keep letting this Mf get away with being ranked so highly. Specs Latios and Greninja have been meta for ages now so you’d think you’d actually see it but you don’t because it’s not good. Legit 0 uses across WCOP and UULT this mon is so fraudulent

We also could UR some stuff that's bad

:Cinccino: Be so fr when was the last time you saw this relevantly used. Coba being a borderline A+ Pokemon right now is a death sentence

:Gardevoir: Enamorus kinda just does the offensive Fairy-type job better despite lower Speed and requiring Boots thanks to the raw power + coverage it instead brings, the usage shows all there is to know

:Gengar: While the whole special attacking Ghost-type role seems cool and all, Gengar has failed to get actual relevant usage for the entirety of DLC 2. Choice Specs, while fine objectively, often just fails to really distinguish itself from Latios and Greninja due to the former's better bulk and typing and the latter's Speed and is left to the wayside as a whole. Hex status stuff seem promising on paper but has never really been made to work and like the other Pokemon in this section is too on paper and not enough in practice to really have a spot on the VR that much longer

:Iron Jugulis: While Booster Speed to be the fastest threat in the metagame at +1 seems nice, the reality is you also just are too weak to really do anything even with that colorful movepool. AV Torn, defensive Zapdos, Tyranitar, Tinkaton, revenge killers like Lokix, the list goes on really of very common answers in the metagame you can't handle. Greninja and Iron Crown kinda just do the job fast special attacker that much better on HO, and with the HO infestation in WCOP there’s so much competition shown to where Iron Jugulis is just not worth it

:Iron Leaves: Ass base typing, pretty awkward MUs into a lot of the top tiers without Tera, which by then again ask yourself why you aren’t using the multitude of other sweepers we have

:Quagsire: Stall is pretty bad right now and I don’t think the archetype even runs Quagsire so not sure if there’s a real reason to keep this ranked

:Scream Tail: This hasn’t been used in ages and while the typing + Encore is really nice, especially for the likes of Hydrapple, Latios, and Greninja, it’s just so damn passive and really difficult to build with. Certainly useable but not enough to have a rank

:Slowbro: Let’s not lie to ourselves and say we actually use this over Slowking, I don’t deny the extra physical defense has perks but the pivoting is just too difficult to give up and the usage shows

I am also using this post to double as an announcement that we will be conducting a VR update in roughly a week to have it in the most accurate state possible before tier shifts. If there are any changes you want to nominate, please do so before the deadline! We are looking forward to reading your posts!
 
I nominate Comfey to B+. While indeed, a rather large leap from basically useless to metagame stable, ladder has become more prone to using the Life Orb ser, and has proven itself as a very good mon on hyper offense, and in general has seen a lot more usage than a lot of the B rank mons. Although it is not without it's weaknesses, mainly that it completely sucks into litterally any steel type, like bro it's so goddamn tera reliant. It also helps that it beats Lokix or at least forces it out 99.99% of the time, which is incredibly important for HO as HO is generally rather weak to it. But at the same time if it starts going and all the steels are dead, almost nothing can stop it from going, so B+ is probably the peak it can get
 
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:excadrill: -> A+: While its pretty good idt its S, sure its nice vs stuff like CM tera elec latios, being able to pressure rotom-w and threaten spin, having SD for late game sweeps are all good things but the meta is 1. liking to just like to nuke it 2. has mons that make it regret choosing rock slide or iron head one way or another. S mon is smth i wouldnt regret putting on a team and it would put in constant work and depending on the MU it can be less than ideal. I dont think we have an S tier mon in SV UU because even excadrill feels just like a good mon here instead of smth like iron treads or torn-t in the past

:Arcanine-Hisui: to B+: This mon got just one use in WCOP pools LOOOL why is this in the A ranks still, even the clanger ban didn't save this
Disagree.... often times meta trends take a while to change esp if you just ban smth.. kommo o was also legal for some time i hear and most people arent gonna change their teams drastically esp to test in a short period where clanger may have been banned.

:tornadus-therian: -> A+: As with exca idt its S tier... zapdos is annoying to any standard set while its coverage moves always make it smth u have to worry about vs a mon for ex. ttar, rhyperior, sandy shocks vs heat wave torn-t, Bunker pex being annoying asf, pickpocket tink also being annoying and often losing its av, also often times doing good things but like relying on exca to remove rocks is like convincing uu cord of a certain mon being viable... its unlikely, exca is a meh spinner and often times trades its own health for it (you have to be tinkaton to really give it more than 1 opportunity to spin). I think it fits in A+.

Despite it being a great check to gren, latios, keldeo, taking hits from rotom-w, zapdos, shocks, thundy-t, scizor to be able to force progrses more... it feels more like an A+ mon to me when a lot of stuff generally annoy it and can come to bite it like a static para, greninja getting a dark pulse flinch, and latios potentially using it for setup fother or having its av knocked off making it unable to replicate its walling against them

:zapdos: -> A+: With rhyperior, shocks, thundy-t on the rise and with in general i dont feel like its S-. Often times there are weird situations where often times you feel you are switching into knock, and roosting more often and relying on static. Nor do i think its really better than slowking/hydrapple/lokix.

:Ogerpon-Cornerstone: -> B+: Ass mon that wishes it had 20 diff moves, spiky shield is good for lokix and while tera solves that problem you are burning tera vs a mon that can come in and out and in general smth like superpower, knock off, etc all are options that are good but if you run knock/shield into coba, tink, meta (with shield), iron crown it isnt gonna be fun.

Still decent and some teams are super cornerstone weak esp ones that run exca as their sole steal or you get a good MU with the coverage move of ur choice it is still smth that is annoying to fit esp over teal mask and their superior HO and offense MU thanks to speed boost + encore.

:Tinkaton: -> B+: Fuck exca, but also coba is in general very annoying and often times ive seen just teal mask replace it as an encore user or coba and slowking using t wave to help against the offense MU. Still good but requires way more anti exca mons (helmet hydrapple) due to just giving free spin


:manaphy: -> B: one of the greatest MU fishes into teams that are slower and have like slowking, hydrapple, sp. def ttar, coba, and in general just fat teams giving tail glow a free turn is prob one of the worst things ever... despite a lot of things like shocks, thundy-t, lokix being able to revenge it after some chip done to it, ogerpon + encore shutting down some attempts it still feels like the times it faces teams with those mons it likes or doesnt face ogerpon/thundy-t/specs latios it is a field day for it.

(also take heart + acid armor is ass to play against, sometimes you will die inside facing this mon or not because u brought encore ogerpon)

:hydreigon: -> B-: Despite it being called a worse latios in every way i like how spammable dark pulse is. Just like the quote below most of our dark resists are temporary at best or dont like eating a fire blast (tinkaton, coba) or draco (ttar, mandibuzz, okidogi, keldeo). It is always nice when ur luster purge isnt flopping into iron crown and instead u can just dark pulse into it even if you are threatened in return as you at least have the threat of "what if they specs dark pulse my iron crown" compared to latios not having that option. Also its great into slowking + another mon as latios often times just has slowking eat the hit and then pivot out to smth else which often times delays specs latios progress well enough. The speed is an issue and that is smth that u have to work with but that is the choice of diff mons that u have to make

A lot of our dark resists largely just lack longevity and Hoopa-U being able to come in, get that nice damage on the Tinkaton or Cobalion, and come back later in the game to make progress is key in enabling other teammates to win the game
:ditto: -> UR: use ogerpon, lokix, double prio teams, haze pex, etc why ditto.

:raikou: -> B: IDT it deserves to drop... the less viable a mon is, the harder it is to use and in general more niche mons are less likely to be used, like if it is so bad it gets used once then why not drop it to C? its clearly still full of potential esp after a clanger ban. Esp since kommo o was a big stop to it that zapdos and thundy-t dont face (hurricane and tera blast flying / just strong hits). I feel it benefits a lot more from a kommo o ban cuz raikou is just a fast mon that outruns ogerpon (who is annoying asf)

:bisharp: -> C: ass mon that loses ot like every top tier... coba is free against it and often times tera electric zapdos can still beat it 1v1 esp if it CM's on switch or just fires smth at it, its so reliant on eviolite that it just dies and losing knock off makes it so that smth like hydrapple can shake it off, zapdos, pex, eat its ass while off mons really just threaten it since it wants to have its hp be high for latios (which we have many ways to fuck over like sp. def ttar)
 
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:pmd/raikou: -> B-
Raikou lacks usage on ladder and was used once in wcop, and it didn't even win. there's a lot of competition for electrics and generally raikou struggles to compete. it lacks longevity and struggles with coverage. Its also pretty reliant on setup for power. Its mostly outclassed by thundy-t, who has similar traits but a better typing and more power.
:pmd/araquanid: -> C
No use in wcop and generally sticky web is not that good rn. HO doesn't really need webs since a lot of its stuff is fast anyways. Ursaluna could give it hope, but even then I don't think its on the level of other B- stuff.
:pmd/mew: ->B-
Good showing at wcop and decent ladder usage since its on a sample. HO doing great means its more popular as a lead.
also support hoopa, ursa, comfey and hydreigon rising, as well as zap, harc, empol and dirge dropping.
 
I disagree with a Raikou drop. Even though it competes with Zapdos, Thundurs-T, and Sandy Shocks, Raikou's speed is still very good in this meta. Kommo-o leaving also benefited it more compared to the previous three electrics.

Raikou @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Assault Vest/Magnet
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Water (Bug or Fairy if running Tera Blast)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt/Discharge
- Scald
- Aura Sphere/Tera Blast/Shadow Ball
- Volt Switch

This in my opinion is its best set. Teams without Gastrodon or a Regenerator Grass can't really time punish its Volt Switch safely. The main function of this set is to be an offensive pivot and revenge killer. Zapdos has a better typing, recovery, Static, and Hurricane. Sandy Shocks has Earth Power, blocks Volt Switch, and can set hazards. But Raikou has Scald, speed, and a better matchup against Greninja.

Tera Bug gives Raikou the ability to hit Ttar, Hydrapple, Latios, Zarude, the Ogerpons, and Hoopa-U while most importantly flipping your Ground weakness all in one slot. Tera Fairy is still a good option though.

As for its CM set, it is still solid due to only Greninja, Tornadus-T and I guess Unburden Hawlucha and Sand Rush Excadrill naturally outspeeding it. It competes with Thundurus-T by having less power for speed. But I prefer Thundurus-T rising than Raikou dropping.

Raikou @ Leftovers/HDB
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Bug / Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Scald
- Tera Blast
- Calm Mind

:pmd/raikou: -> B-
Raikou lacks usage on ladder and was used once in wcop, and it didn't even win. there's a lot of competition for electrics and generally raikou struggles to compete. it lacks longevity and struggles with coverage. Its also pretty reliant on setup for power. Its mostly outclassed by thundy-t, who has similar traits but a better typing and more power.
I think the loss was mostly on the player rather than Raikou itself. Getting hit by Lokix's Knock Off turn 1 when you have both Mandibuzz and Rhyperior is a big mistake, especially if it is the CM set (which it probably is since it has Leftovers). In fact, Raikou actually had a good matchup against the opponent, (arguably even better than Zapdos, Sandy Shocks, and Thundurus-T) which forced a Tera Water Aqua Jet to secure the KO on Raikou after the Knock Off chip.
 

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