It's more so examples of things I have been using. I think the greatest point is that Garg doesn't like Sub used against it. People have already mentioned other things like Okidogi and Lily has her list higher so think of it as more off adding to it.
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SV UU Metagame Discussion - Teal Mask Edition
- Thread starter Lily
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What makes you think this? HOME release date aside, they've been on-schedule so far. We're getting DLC this year, probably a BW remake and maybe something like PLA next year, then probably the next set of games the year after that.
I don’t know maybe the fact they have considered slowing down game production. I should have phrased my post better, what I meant was here might be a longer wait between Gen 9 and Gen 10.
Fair, as we all see the meta game through different lenses, though I disagree with your opinions, I will recognize them as valid, and will use them to counterbalance my own, as everyone’s opinion is important.
To be honest, I think Garg absolutely deserves a ban for how quickly it can take over games and force overly specific counters in the teambuilder.
People have brought up counterplay, but most of these are flimsy and don't stand up in practice, especially once Garg teras. Being a tera hog doesn't really matter when the tera on Garg gives you far more value than tera on any other mon, often outright winning you the game.
Mienshao: regenerator is cool, but even with LO this fails to do anything to Garg especially tera ghost/fairy variants. The tera gives Garg a free turn to set up curse/ID, making this useless afterward.
Amoonguss: this is an absolute non-counter. amongus can't spore Garg, and giga drain does nothing to standard SpDef Garg even with no tera. In this replay even with covert cloak amongus totally failed in stopping Garg's sweep: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1963454390
The replay above also highlights how knock off isn't as impactful to Garg as others have been touting, and highlights how ridiculously unkillable Garg is (surviving Iron Treads EQ on 10%, taking only 25% from Rotom-W hydro pump and Heatran magma storm, 33% from Tornadus-T hurricane). Generic special attackers alone aren't even enough, you would need a dedicated specs wallbreaker/nasty plot user (who may not even be able to set up in time).
Some people have brought up Substitute users, but most of these lose hard to curse Garg variants. Hydreigon with tera Ghost, levitate and sub is a good counter, but is far too restrictive in terms of requiring one specific set on one specific pokemon imo. On top of that, hydreigon can't switch into salt cure/body press initially, so you essentially have to sacrifice a mon to get hydreigon in AND sacrifice your tera on top of that.
TLDR; Garg is not so easily countered as some people make it seem. I think Garg right now is fairly oppressive both in games and in the teambuilder, so would appreciate more discussion about it
People have brought up counterplay, but most of these are flimsy and don't stand up in practice, especially once Garg teras. Being a tera hog doesn't really matter when the tera on Garg gives you far more value than tera on any other mon, often outright winning you the game.
Mienshao: regenerator is cool, but even with LO this fails to do anything to Garg especially tera ghost/fairy variants. The tera gives Garg a free turn to set up curse/ID, making this useless afterward.
Amoonguss: this is an absolute non-counter. amongus can't spore Garg, and giga drain does nothing to standard SpDef Garg even with no tera. In this replay even with covert cloak amongus totally failed in stopping Garg's sweep: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1963454390
The replay above also highlights how knock off isn't as impactful to Garg as others have been touting, and highlights how ridiculously unkillable Garg is (surviving Iron Treads EQ on 10%, taking only 25% from Rotom-W hydro pump and Heatran magma storm, 33% from Tornadus-T hurricane). Generic special attackers alone aren't even enough, you would need a dedicated specs wallbreaker/nasty plot user (who may not even be able to set up in time).
Some people have brought up Substitute users, but most of these lose hard to curse Garg variants. Hydreigon with tera Ghost, levitate and sub is a good counter, but is far too restrictive in terms of requiring one specific set on one specific pokemon imo. On top of that, hydreigon can't switch into salt cure/body press initially, so you essentially have to sacrifice a mon to get hydreigon in AND sacrifice your tera on top of that.
TLDR; Garg is not so easily countered as some people make it seem. I think Garg right now is fairly oppressive both in games and in the teambuilder, so would appreciate more discussion about it
Where'd they say this, though?
They haven’t as far as i know
TPC COO Takato Utsunomiya nodded at the discussion, saying "I think in general, if you look at the past, the path we've taken up until now has been this constant release, always regularly releasing products on a fairly fixed kind of a cadence, you might say[...] I think we're still operating in that way, but there's more and more conversations, as the development environments change, about how we can continue to do this, while making sure that we're ensuring really quality products are also being introduced."
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2...sue-between-release-schedule-and-game-quality
(This is source they cited: https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/pokemon-company-game-releases-takato-utsunomiya-interview/)
Which doesn't necessarily mean slowing down for gen10, but maybe?
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It was in an article a couple of weeks ago I think
kinda new to this meta, but i'm curious on y'alls thoughts of the loyal 3?
(okidogi, munkidori, and fezandipiti)
obviously poison isn't stellar defensive typing when ground types are everywhere, but i can see okidogi and munkidori being somewhat interesting. okidogi can tera into something like water to run bulk up sets, and munkidori is like gengar mini, you lose out on ghost stab in exchange for parting shot and psychic stab
i really don't think fezandipiti will be good since gweezing exists and has like, 2 abilities that completely outclass it (gas and levitate)
but at the same time, i know nothing about the meta! anyone who wants to give their thoughts, i'd be more than interested to hear
(okidogi, munkidori, and fezandipiti)
obviously poison isn't stellar defensive typing when ground types are everywhere, but i can see okidogi and munkidori being somewhat interesting. okidogi can tera into something like water to run bulk up sets, and munkidori is like gengar mini, you lose out on ghost stab in exchange for parting shot and psychic stab
i really don't think fezandipiti will be good since gweezing exists and has like, 2 abilities that completely outclass it (gas and levitate)
but at the same time, i know nothing about the meta! anyone who wants to give their thoughts, i'd be more than interested to hear
I've been using Fez on a team as my 6th mon to fill up some holes in one of my builds. It is largely outclassed by GWeez but there are a couple of things that it does pretty nicely imo:
- It switches into basically everything that Meow and Ogerpon can do which I think is a pretty nice trait to have, withe at least one of them being on like 80% of the teams I've ran into
- It gets U-turn, letting it act as a pivot whilst also having a chance to badly poison stuff with Toxic Chain. This is it's main draw over Okidogi imo.
- it gets Roost, which is far more reliable than Pain Split in making Fez stick around
- It can run Helmet more easily instead of Sludge/Lefties because of Roost, allowing it to punish contact moves (U-turn!). It's also a great Knock absorber
- It's faster. Though slow u-turn is also cool, being able to outspeed stuff like Azu & Crawdaunt without much investment is really nice in case you need to get chip/poison on them. You also just naturally outspeed a lot of defensive mons, letting you taunt them
It's offensive stats leave much to be desired, but I find that running a set like Roost / U-turn and then a combo of Toxic / Play Rough / Taunt / Poison Jab serves enough for the niches I was looking for. I wish it got Knock tbh.
@ LeftoversAbility: Storm Drain
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Clear Smog / Sludge Bomb
- Earth Power
- Recover
@ Covert CloakAbility: Heatproof
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind / Hex
- Matcha Gotcha
- Strength Sap
- Foul Play / Hex
(M) @ Rocky HelmetAbility: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- U-turn
- Play Rough
- Toxic
Sinitcha & Gastrodon form a pretty sturdy backbone for a balance team right now. CC Sinistcha sits on a lot of physical mons & deals with Garganacl handily as long as it doesn't get knocked. Gastro is a pretty good catch-all special blob and gets a lot of opportunities to set spikes, which can then get spinblocked by Sinistcha
There are some things this core struggles with, the most notable ones being physical dark types, and knock in general. It also struggles to really pressure Tornadus. Okidogi or GWeez would both fit just fine, but I wanted to try out Fez and it's been fun!
Also the EV spread is just some random numbers really, I havent optimized it yet. But it lived pretty much every hit I wanted it to tank so surely it must be functional
i think i'd have to agree now, fez seems pretty nice! honestly the main thing that interests me is just a defensive mon who can consistently threaten just by virtue of its ability, though i am concerned on how you'd be dealing with something like meowscarada specifically- you already mentioned the weakness to knock, but meow seems especially annoying since it can just u turn out into one of the mons who inevitably counters fez. either way, dope looking concept, i might steal it if i ever get around to playing again lol!
If it u-turns out, it'll take Helmet chip so is not a free move to click for Meow. Ofc once you tank a Knock it becomes a different story but if meow chooses to knock, you will get ball in your court on the next turn, and you can start forcing plays that favor you in that way
Also if its not running Boots it'll take hazards too every time it enters the field. Fez is dfinitely not a hard stop to Meow & Ogerpon, but it helps a ton in the matchup
Besides, the same things can be said about other defensive answers to meow/oger, weezing & dogi cant do much in the fave of u-turn either
I think the order you listed them is probably how I would rank their viability.
Okidogi @ Leftovers
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 84 SpD / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
You don't have to run this much speed, I think it is rather flexible on that end. Find a good mon to creep and go with that.
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 84 SpD / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
You don't have to run this much speed, I think it is rather flexible on that end. Find a good mon to creep and go with that.
Munkidori @ Choice Specs
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- U-turn / Parting Shot
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Wave
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- U-turn / Parting Shot
I have not used Fezan myself but I don't think it is great. It has some notable traits typing-wise but everything else about it is just disappointing imo. Stats are super random and it lacks a lot of support tools that I feel it wants to separate it from other defensive Pokemon we have in the tier. I think the above post is good and probably shows the most viable set you'll get with it bar a few different move options you could consider.
Just some other thoughts on the meta so far:
Gonna echo what Twilight said about 
above. Covert Cloak is only a stop gap to Salt Cure chip, but even then, some common users like Amoonguss lose to Body Press or Earthquake on boosting sets if the Amoong isn't Clear Smog. It doesn't help that most of the Pokémon who can actually afford to run Covert Cloak (Sinistcha, Amoonguss, Gastrodon) are common targets for Knock Off, which is everywhere in this tier. Garg can threaten a sweep at team preview with the right Tera, but even Rocks Protect sets can wreak havoc on frailer team structures because it blanket checks so many mons in the tier.
Of the many Garg varieties, SpDef Tera Electric ID Press is the most egregious set I've used/encountered. Electric has only one weakness, and neutral hits bounce off Garg's massive bulk. Physical EQ mons can't match Garg's raw stats after an Iron Defense. There's only two Pokémon who commonly run Special Ground moves (Shocks & Tran), and neither of them have a boosting move or the staying power to beat Garg throughout a match. Gastro runs Earth Power on some sets, but uninvested EP is bouncing off Garg's 404/306 special bulk, and if it's not still holding its Covert Cloak, or can't Tera Ghost, it's gg.
To beat Garg, you need to have at least one of an Encore mon, a strong (Choice Specs Munkidori/Hydreigon strong) special attacker who can threaten a neutral hit 2HKO, or an excessively fat team with Covert Cloak or Regen spam that can stack hazards, prevent removal, and stall Garg's Recovers. I like Garg gameplay-wise--just a fat monster that can steamroll at a moment's glance--and I really didn't think it was broken at first glance. But after laddering from 1000 to 1600 on a couple alts testing out the new tier, I haven't encountered a Pokémon that felt more restricting or threatening than it does.
I'd say, give Garg the boot by Council vote. I don't think anyone would be up in arms if Council handles this without a community vote.
above. Covert Cloak is only a stop gap to Salt Cure chip, but even then, some common users like Amoonguss lose to Body Press or Earthquake on boosting sets if the Amoong isn't Clear Smog. It doesn't help that most of the Pokémon who can actually afford to run Covert Cloak (Sinistcha, Amoonguss, Gastrodon) are common targets for Knock Off, which is everywhere in this tier. Garg can threaten a sweep at team preview with the right Tera, but even Rocks Protect sets can wreak havoc on frailer team structures because it blanket checks so many mons in the tier. Of the many Garg varieties, SpDef Tera Electric ID Press is the most egregious set I've used/encountered. Electric has only one weakness, and neutral hits bounce off Garg's massive bulk. Physical EQ mons can't match Garg's raw stats after an Iron Defense. There's only two Pokémon who commonly run Special Ground moves (Shocks & Tran), and neither of them have a boosting move or the staying power to beat Garg throughout a match. Gastro runs Earth Power on some sets, but uninvested EP is bouncing off Garg's 404/306 special bulk, and if it's not still holding its Covert Cloak, or can't Tera Ghost, it's gg.
To beat Garg, you need to have at least one of an Encore mon, a strong (Choice Specs Munkidori/Hydreigon strong) special attacker who can threaten a neutral hit 2HKO, or an excessively fat team with Covert Cloak or Regen spam that can stack hazards, prevent removal, and stall Garg's Recovers. I like Garg gameplay-wise--just a fat monster that can steamroll at a moment's glance--and I really didn't think it was broken at first glance. But after laddering from 1000 to 1600 on a couple alts testing out the new tier, I haven't encountered a Pokémon that felt more restricting or threatening than it does.
I'd say, give Garg the boot by Council vote. I don't think anyone would be up in arms if Council handles this without a community vote.
I’ve been loving this munkidori set for balance teams
Munkidori @ Expert Belt
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Parting Shot
This set is great on balance imo since it can just click sludge bomb and flip a coin to see if it gets the poison without being too prediction reliant against heatran. I’ve been using it on a status spam team w/ toxic amoongus and wisp rotom wash since I can just click status moves and slowly win the game, or at least cripple threats so scarf meow or munkidori can clean up.
Yeah Munki is very solid. I think U-Turn is preferable over parting shot to spread poison but it depends on your build. I think Garg is probably unhealthy but not outright QB worthy. Seems like a good suspect candidate; QBing "defensive" (I am using that extremely loosely given how often it sets up and sweeps) is pretty rare.
So we're just gonna ignore that a council member made a mistake and Ceruledge shouldn't have been banned? OK then.
Continued playing the tier, dropping a bunch more impressions on various mons.
The more I play, the more I think this is banworthy. A lot of the standard anti-stall tactics work reasonably well, like trick scarf, taunt, phat wallbreakers, encore, etc. But salt cure is so easily spammable in all these situations that it still spreads around so much damage regardless. Generally I think Smogon is bad at recognising when a defensive mon is banworthy, and only tends to take notice when they start sweeping. Which admittedly I'm guilty of too, as Garg only felt overwhelming once the iron defence or curse sets got used more often. I'd support a suspect for this salt bitch.
Really surprised at how much support these got among the council for bans even if they didn't reach the threshold, especially Heatran. Maybe this is a difference in how we think Pokemon should be played? To me, mons like Heatran and Iron Hands are the kind of mons I want to see more of. Phat, hard-hitting tanks that trade really well but rarely do better than 1for1. They help drag down hyper offence while punishing passive defensive play, but balance and general offence teams tend to have the tools to deal with them. At least for Hands I can see the argument for how difficult SD + Drain Punch is due to all the healing, but I really haven't found it banworthy playing both with and against it.
I really wasn't expecting Matcha Gatcha over here to be as good as he is when he first dropped, since we've had a million grass/ghost types of varying degrees of mediocre, and it didn't get the shell smash that defines Polteageist. Boy howdy was I wrong, Matcha Gatcha is legit. Spinblocker extraordinare, relentlessly healing bastard between Matcha and Strength Sap, and genuine sweeping threat. Still not sure what the best tera type is on it. For the item, I was actually running itemless for a bit as it countered Ceruledge that way while taking reduced damage from knock off (that is until Ceruledge was literally stolen from us smh smh)
Still has a place even with Matcha Gatcha being the wee bollocks that it is. With colbur and strength sap, you sit on Tornadus-T which continues to be very funny, and can spike and spin all day. Poltergeist hits impressively hard and is such a great boon for it. It's a spinner that beats Matcha Gatcha too, since it outspeeds. Unless you're running itemless like a champ as I was.
A neat bag of tricks with tons of utility and a great defensive typing which lets it switch into the poison monkey without fearing either toxic or focus blast. I've seen lots of different sets, but I think scarf trick is probably the best set. Has the fun detail against Kleavor leads where you can completely deny them from accomplishing anything. 60% of the time, it works every time.
With knock everywhere and Matcha Gatcha to spinblock, webs are actually pretty legit in the tier. Vikavolt is the best imo, and has a neat defensive profile too versus stuff like Meow. Hates how prominent Treads is but that can be dealt with without too much of an issue.
Talked about it before, but I'm bringing it up again to talk about how I saw it being used to counter defog. Yeah yeah defiant etc, but I thought foul play defensive Mandibuzz could deal with that. That is, until this wee prick busted out encore and suddenly I was in trouble. Has 4MSS, has to deal with everyone and their mom prepping for Meow, and not being able to tera out of your weakness versus stuff like Lokix are fairly substantial issues with it, but my god does it hit hard.
Fuck this guy. It can't quite pull its weight offensively like it used to, but its place in enabling the cheesiest offence strategies is incredible. I normally see it on rain, which lets you play recklessly with both your wave crash spammers and can bring back Pelipper for one last round. However the most devious use of it I saw was on this one psychic terrain team. Between revival blessing and healing wish, the guy used shell smash Polteageist 3 times in one game.
I wasn't around when this was being suspected, but my god is the tera ice version seemingly impossible to play around. It feels like Regieleki with the speed boost. At least unlike leki it doesn't keep the speed boost forever so it can't pivot in and out with volt switch endlessly. Unlike leki though, this prick has the stab move to hit the steel/ground mon in the tier. Also the ice swap has a surprising benefit defensively: You now resist Weavile's ice moves.
I built a sun team. It wasn't great, but it was quite fun, and likely gets better with Ceruledge cruelly and undeservedly being ripped from us. Heatran isn't actually a problem for sun when your abusers are stuff like H-Lilligant, Sandy Shocks, and Slither Wing. Slither Wing in particular is a hell of a drug when banded and in sun. Laughs at the idea of Lokix having to use tinted lens to take out resists when it hits so hard it breaks resists anyway. Watched it 100-0 a Talonflame, which was funny. Unfortunately there's too many mons that give the playstyle trouble. Slowking is a big one, but so does opposing Sandy Shocks, as well as rain being everywhere. You kinda need to run weird lures to catch rain out, like tera electric tera blast ninetails. Which is objectively bad but also objectively funny. Until they revive Pelipper with Pawmot.
Was actually pretty neat in the Garchomp days as it blocked the speed boost and punished swords dance with encore. Has there ever been a move with a greater glow-up than encore this generation? Reminds me of the sudden influx of future sight being used in gen 8, But without Garchomp around, it's a lot less viable. Hates Treads being everywhere since you can really accomplish bugger all as long as it's alive. You technically get fire blast but off 65 non-stab SpA?
Haha specs moonblast go brrrr
Playing a sad tune for these two. I've seen them occasionally, but for what superstars of the meta they used to be, boy did the power creep catch up to them.
Continued playing the tier, dropping a bunch more impressions on various mons.
The more I play, the more I think this is banworthy. A lot of the standard anti-stall tactics work reasonably well, like trick scarf, taunt, phat wallbreakers, encore, etc. But salt cure is so easily spammable in all these situations that it still spreads around so much damage regardless. Generally I think Smogon is bad at recognising when a defensive mon is banworthy, and only tends to take notice when they start sweeping. Which admittedly I'm guilty of too, as Garg only felt overwhelming once the iron defence or curse sets got used more often. I'd support a suspect for this salt bitch. Really surprised at how much support these got among the council for bans even if they didn't reach the threshold, especially Heatran. Maybe this is a difference in how we think Pokemon should be played? To me, mons like Heatran and Iron Hands are the kind of mons I want to see more of. Phat, hard-hitting tanks that trade really well but rarely do better than 1for1. They help drag down hyper offence while punishing passive defensive play, but balance and general offence teams tend to have the tools to deal with them. At least for Hands I can see the argument for how difficult SD + Drain Punch is due to all the healing, but I really haven't found it banworthy playing both with and against it. I really wasn't expecting Matcha Gatcha over here to be as good as he is when he first dropped, since we've had a million grass/ghost types of varying degrees of mediocre, and it didn't get the shell smash that defines Polteageist. Boy howdy was I wrong, Matcha Gatcha is legit. Spinblocker extraordinare, relentlessly healing bastard between Matcha and Strength Sap, and genuine sweeping threat. Still not sure what the best tera type is on it. For the item, I was actually running itemless for a bit as it countered Ceruledge that way while taking reduced damage from knock off (that is until Ceruledge was literally stolen from us smh smh) Still has a place even with Matcha Gatcha being the wee bollocks that it is. With colbur and strength sap, you sit on Tornadus-T which continues to be very funny, and can spike and spin all day. Poltergeist hits impressively hard and is such a great boon for it. It's a spinner that beats Matcha Gatcha too, since it outspeeds. Unless you're running itemless like a champ as I was. A neat bag of tricks with tons of utility and a great defensive typing which lets it switch into the poison monkey without fearing either toxic or focus blast. I've seen lots of different sets, but I think scarf trick is probably the best set. Has the fun detail against Kleavor leads where you can completely deny them from accomplishing anything. 60% of the time, it works every time. With knock everywhere and Matcha Gatcha to spinblock, webs are actually pretty legit in the tier. Vikavolt is the best imo, and has a neat defensive profile too versus stuff like Meow. Hates how prominent Treads is but that can be dealt with without too much of an issue. Talked about it before, but I'm bringing it up again to talk about how I saw it being used to counter defog. Yeah yeah defiant etc, but I thought foul play defensive Mandibuzz could deal with that. That is, until this wee prick busted out encore and suddenly I was in trouble. Has 4MSS, has to deal with everyone and their mom prepping for Meow, and not being able to tera out of your weakness versus stuff like Lokix are fairly substantial issues with it, but my god does it hit hard. Fuck this guy. It can't quite pull its weight offensively like it used to, but its place in enabling the cheesiest offence strategies is incredible. I normally see it on rain, which lets you play recklessly with both your wave crash spammers and can bring back Pelipper for one last round. However the most devious use of it I saw was on this one psychic terrain team. Between revival blessing and healing wish, the guy used shell smash Polteageist 3 times in one game. I wasn't around when this was being suspected, but my god is the tera ice version seemingly impossible to play around. It feels like Regieleki with the speed boost. At least unlike leki it doesn't keep the speed boost forever so it can't pivot in and out with volt switch endlessly. Unlike leki though, this prick has the stab move to hit the steel/ground mon in the tier. Also the ice swap has a surprising benefit defensively: You now resist Weavile's ice moves. I built a sun team. It wasn't great, but it was quite fun, and likely gets better with Ceruledge cruelly and undeservedly being ripped from us. Heatran isn't actually a problem for sun when your abusers are stuff like H-Lilligant, Sandy Shocks, and Slither Wing. Slither Wing in particular is a hell of a drug when banded and in sun. Laughs at the idea of Lokix having to use tinted lens to take out resists when it hits so hard it breaks resists anyway. Watched it 100-0 a Talonflame, which was funny. Unfortunately there's too many mons that give the playstyle trouble. Slowking is a big one, but so does opposing Sandy Shocks, as well as rain being everywhere. You kinda need to run weird lures to catch rain out, like tera electric tera blast ninetails. Which is objectively bad but also objectively funny. Until they revive Pelipper with Pawmot. Was actually pretty neat in the Garchomp days as it blocked the speed boost and punished swords dance with encore. Has there ever been a move with a greater glow-up than encore this generation? Reminds me of the sudden influx of future sight being used in gen 8, But without Garchomp around, it's a lot less viable. Hates Treads being everywhere since you can really accomplish bugger all as long as it's alive. You technically get fire blast but off 65 non-stab SpA? Haha specs moonblast go brrrr Playing a sad tune for these two. I've seen them occasionally, but for what superstars of the meta they used to be, boy did the power creep catch up to them.My thoughts on dropped mons
Jirachi: Fuck it, Iron Head
Tinkaton: New toy syndrome hurts her, but wait a month, she’ll be back
Sandy Shocks/Thundurus-T: Thunder is a speedrun for your opponent to click Alt+f4
Ogerpon: Comes in to take Defog, Tera’s, One-taps 50% of your team and weakens your checks, Ogerpon is the most potent win on in the tier imo
Jirachi: Fuck it, Iron Head
Tinkaton: New toy syndrome hurts her, but wait a month, she’ll be back
Sandy Shocks/Thundurus-T: Thunder is a speedrun for your opponent to click Alt+f4
Ogerpon: Comes in to take Defog, Tera’s, One-taps 50% of your team and weakens your checks, Ogerpon is the most potent win on in the tier imo
When it comes to
I just personally find it to be an awkward Mon. The 110 Speed is such a weird speed tier. You are slower than Weavile, Meowscarad and Tornadus who threaten you greatly. You are also slower than Scarf Gapdos and Hydreigon and Booster energy Sandy Shocks and Treads while also not wanting to have your own Scarf on the offchance you do Tera. I have also been feeling like that 120Atk stat hits pretty hard but also not that hard. Finally while Tera gives you speed you can't Tera yourself out of getting hit hard by every priority option in the world.
Most of the time I'm questioning why use this mon instead of Meowscarada and maybe the Encore sets that punish Defogers are the answer. But you also don't have a great MU into Geezing.
Most of the time I'm questioning why use this mon instead of Meowscarada and maybe the Encore sets that punish Defogers are the answer. But you also don't have a great MU into Geezing.
I'm not 100% what the exact percentages needed to quickban a Pokemon are (I couldn't find anything in previous posts) but I'm like 99% sure that Ceruledge would still be banned even with Moutemoute's mistake taken into account. If we change Moute's ban vote to a DNB, we get a 7-5-1 ratio, which just barely skews in favor of a majority vote. Any council members are free to correct me if I'm wrong lmao. Regardless of that, the ban was already implemented by the time the mistake was pointed out, and I think reversing a quickban due to a single mistake would just be a hassle for both the community and the programmers at Smogon. Besides, the council could always hold another vote on Ceruledge or even suspect it back into the tier if they really see the mistake as that big of a deal, so it's not an end-all be-all.
While I'm here, I'm gonna take this opportunity to talk about a duo of mons that I not only think are super underrated on their own, but also form a really good core together that I've loved using lately:
This is a really awesome mon that I only expect to get better with Garchomp getting banned. BU sets being able to reliably 1v1 ID Garg is really good, it has a really good speed tier for a bulky sweeper, and being able to spread poison with Toxic Chain helps it out massively against bulkier teams. I personally prefer to run Tera Fairy - Tera Water forces you to run Covert Cloak so you don't lose the Garg matchup when you Tera, which means you lose out on the added longevity Leftovers gives you. I think this is going to be a real threat once the meta settles down further. This mon should NOT be as good as it is holy fucking BINGLE. Matcha Gotcha is the stupidest fucking move in the history of Pokemon, and when you combine it with Calm Mind and Strength Sap, this mon is almost UNKILLABLE. It's another great Garg counter that can reliably 1v1 it, and it's also super good at checking stuff like Rotom-W, Sandy Shocks, Ursaluna... it can even reliable counter Iron Hands as long as it's not running Ice Punch or Tera Blast Flying. It is unfortunately very suspectible to Knock Off, and it really doesn't like Dark types like Meowscarada, Weavile, and Hydriegon becoming more prominent, but when it finds a favorable matchup, oh BOY does this mon pop off.While these above two mons are both good on their own, they REALLY shine when run together as a core. Okidogi acts as a Knock Off absorber for Sinistcha and handles Dark types for it, while Sinistcha handles Ground types for Okidogi. They're also both really good at spreading status and just wearing down bulky mons while also serving as dangerous late-game wincons in their own right. It's a very versatile core that fits very well on balance, bulky offense, and any team that really hates Garganacl :P
Here's the team I've been using with these two if anyone wants to give this core a try: https://pokepast.es/ae00a4944f495cf7 I built this team with the help of pia members as part of the weekly CCAT event, and it REALLY exceeded my expectations, especially with how much work Okidogi and Sinistcha put in as a core. I hope these mons surprise you as much as they surprised me! (in a good way, ofc xdd)
Already apologized for it. Also Ceruledge didn't add something major to the tier. It was a great staple for HO and.. that's pretty much all. It didn't add anything except that one niche. Using it outside of really offensive builds wasn't really effective and I do believe it wouldn't have lasted long if I have to be fair. I do regret that mistake but sitting here sticking knives into my back isn't helpful either, what is done is done and maybe it will be retested in the future anyway.
call me skill issue but i think the state of the metagame is currently unhealthy with the amount of threats you have to account for in the teambuilding
hey all, would just like to share an offensive core that came to me in a dream while i was walking home and that i needed to make into reality
and 
both create a really, really effective core alongside spikes support that can pressure their switchins while mamoswine forces the issue more with knock off. the biggest victim of this is rotom - even if it can switch into mamo just fine, just one knock off can force it into range of +2 torn.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1965500783-3mp07nakbpxmmm4x90uq31chwbpi8vppw this battle showcases what i mean perfectly. even though i lost, the fact of the matter is that torn and mamo forced the opponent into a very uncomfortable position when rotom was knocked into range of stealth rocks.
https://pokepast.es/bc274c51d6091016 here is the team i was using, actually its a little diff and these are last-minute changes so its possible my old version was better but tbh i like it when my washtom check actually beats washtom and extra insurance against rain isnt bad fs
and both create a really, really effective core alongside spikes support that can pressure their switchins while mamoswine forces the issue more with knock off. the biggest victim of this is rotom - even if it can switch into mamo just fine, just one knock off can force it into range of +2 torn.https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1965500783-3mp07nakbpxmmm4x90uq31chwbpi8vppw this battle showcases what i mean perfectly. even though i lost, the fact of the matter is that torn and mamo forced the opponent into a very uncomfortable position when rotom was knocked into range of stealth rocks.
https://pokepast.es/bc274c51d6091016 here is the team i was using, actually its a little diff and these are last-minute changes so its possible my old version was better but tbh i like it when my washtom check actually beats washtom and extra insurance against rain isnt bad fs
dw bout it man o7
i dont want to run sub or cloak to deal with garg oh good heavens i hate garganacl it deserves uubl hell
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