SwagPlay, evaluating potential bans (basic definition of "uncompetitive" in OP)

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Let me show you guys firsthand how stupid this strategy is, it deserves to be banned for being entirely luck based. I will add more links soon.

To be honest, after playing with this team many times, the only thing that makes this strategy broken is Prankster + Swagger/Confuse Ray/ Flatter + Substitute. Without Substitute it would be easy to beat.

Every one of my wins have ended in a forfeit besides 1 or 2 i think.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91396868
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91399385
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91400839
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91402001
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91405413
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91408207
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-9140949
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91413601
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91415299
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91416085
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91418343
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91419869
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91422930
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91435933
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91437334
(Missing Replay where I won, will upload when server fixes itself)

Current Record: 15-3 on the Ubers ladder

How I lost...
EK Arcues got to +3, escaped Swagger, and owned me lol.
My iPad crashed (missing this replay)
My iPad crashed again (missing replay)
 
Last edited:

Age of Kings

of the Ash Legion
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
air slash has a 60/40% chance it flinching so yeah. Also klefki is frail as crap so you only need to hit through once
What does that prove? You do realize you do need to be slower than the opponent to get flinched, correct? That's one of the reasons why you paralyze something first. How many viable Electric types are slower than Togekiss? Ampharos and Magnezone and they can probably take 5+ Air Slashes to the face if you were particularly unlucky with flinches. Everything else outruns it and can do whatever they want with it. Togekiss needs to run quite a bit of speed to outrun standard Rotom just to hit it with a resisted move. Quite a few Electrics also check Jirachi. Do not compare paraflinch to priority confusion.
 
Let me show you guys firsthand how stupid this strategy is, it deserves to be banned for being entirely luck based. I will add more links soon.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91396868
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91399385
First of all, notice how both players are around the 1000's rank. So you got two noobs playing against each other. Want to see how a Prankster vs normal team game between two skilled players in the uber ladder looks like? See this:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-74927155

And nobody is denying that prankster teams can win. The point is that you are not including the dozens of battle in which the prankster player lost because of luck.

Current Record: 3-0 on the Ubers ladder
Record is nothing. See if you get to the top 10 in the ladder.
 
What does that prove? You do realize you do need to be slower than the opponent to get flinched, correct? That's one of the reasons why you paralyze something first. How many viable Electric types are slower than Togekiss? Ampharos and Magnezone and they can probably take 5+ Air Slashes to the face if you were particularly unlucky with flinches. Everything else outruns it and can do whatever they want with it. Togekiss needs to run quite a bit of speed to outrun standard Rotom just to hit it with a resisted move. Quite a few Electrics also check Jirachi. Do not compare paraflinch to priority confusion.[/quote\]
just like every special or defensive Pokemon can take many swagger hits to the face if they were unlucky. There is no reason to ban this other than it pisses some people off, stealth rock annoys alot of people, but we wouldn't dream of banning that (I'm not saying stealth rock should be banned if that's what I'm coming off like)
My phone did something weird, read the end of the quote
 
Let me show you guys firsthand how stupid this strategy is, it deserves to be banned for being entirely luck based. I will add more links soon.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91396868
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91399385
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91400839

Current Record: 3-0 on the Ubers ladder
Do it in OU next. Unless you have a decent ranking in Ubers already, having replays for Ubers is an awful example. I don't mean any offense to people who play Ubers, but it definitely has the highest percentage of players who don't actually know what they're doing and just want to use Pokemon they think are cool. These people have really unbalanced teams, full of physical attackers (except for Jirachi using ... Hyper Beam, wow). If you want to show people that this strategy is ban-worthy, do it where people have better teams.
 
First of all, notice how both players are around the 1000's rank. So you got two noobs playing against each other. Want to see how a Prankster vs normal team game between two skilled players in the uber ladder looks like? See this:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-74927155

And nobody is denying that prankster teams can win. The point is that you are not including the dozens of battle in which the prankster player lost because of luck.



Record is nothing. See if you get to the top 10 in the ladder.
You're using this video as a reason it shouldn't be banned? That looks excruciating.
 
sorry for my misinformation, someone else said to me that it was really frail
It is pretty frail even with the good typing it can be taken out in one hit by most physical attacker or special attacker that hit it super effectively.
It Hp 57 Def 91 S Def 87. Sure it has descent are defenses but Hp really bad. It more or less if you get to hit by yourself the main thing that save it from dying is a sub and you hitting yourself. Also if it does swagger you do hit it with something like earthquake and flare blitz it will go down in one hit from the attack. Also its weak to two pretty common attack use in the game Fire and Ground.
 
Do it in OU next. Unless you have a decent ranking in Ubers already, having replays for Ubers is an awful example. I don't mean any offense to people who play Ubers, but it definitely has the highest percentage of players who don't actually know what they're doing and just want to use Pokemon they think are cool. These people have really unbalanced teams, full of physical attackers (except for Jirachi using ... Hyper Beam, wow). If you want to show people that this strategy is ban-worthy, do it where people have better teams.
This. I have also noticed Ubers is by far the easiest ladder to climb due to the huge amount of noobs who play ubers just because they really want to have blaziken or mewtwo on their team.
 
This thread is hilarious. If its really a problem then ban the real culprit which is ThunderWave.

*Waits as everyone rushes to make an excuse to keep Thunderwave and ignores the fact that this strategy is only viable with ThunderWave/Glare/Stun Pore*.

Or, better yet, make Thunderwave Illegal if you have Swagger/ConfuseRay on your poke's moveset.
 
First of all, notice how both players are around the 1000's rank. So you got two noobs playing against each other. Want to see how a Prankster vs normal team game between two skilled players in the uber ladder looks like? See this:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-74927155

And nobody is denying that prankster teams can win. The point is that you are not including the dozens of battle in which the prankster player lost because of luck.



Record is nothing. See if you get to the top 10 in the ladder.
Maybe I'm still playing a bunch of noobs, but the games still speak for themselves. A team with no attacking moves with mostly pokemon that are uu and under are massacring common ubers pokemon, sometimes I could win these battles with just Liepard and Klefki if I had to. Either way, I'm 5-0 right now so I'm bound to start playing some real players soon and we'll see what happens there.
 
This. I have also noticed Ubers is by far the easiest ladder to climb due to the huge amount of noobs who play ubers just because they really want to have blaziken or mewtwo on their team.
Blaziken as a whole shouldn't have been banned in the first place (just Speed Boost since it was apparently that much of a problem).

Hopefully if Prankster is banned then they would revisit allowing Blaziken back in and just banning Speed Boost (Or Speed Boost+Protect) since now they are willing to entertain complex bans at this point. But that's a discussion for another day.
 
It is pretty frail even with the good typing it can be taken out in one hit by most physical attacker or special attacker that hit it super effectively.
It Hp 57 Def 91 S Def 87. Sure it has descent are defenses but Hp really bad. It more or less if you get to hit by yourself the main thing that save it from dying is a sub and you hitting yourself. Also if it does swagger you do hit it with something like earthquake and flare blitz it will go down in one hit from the attack. Also its weak to two pretty common attack use in the game Fire and Ground.
its got scrafty syndrome lol. Also, if people are giving out about the 50/50 chance, ban confusion altogether, its just a status, the strategy only works well against physical attackers, and if your team is weak to it, its your fault, my team is incredibly weak to m-mawile, but it doesn't matter, I can still beat one because I'm a decent player, most people who use pranksterswag are bad players. If you can't find your way past their strategy, its not because of luck, its because your team doesn't like swagger.
 

Age of Kings

of the Ash Legion
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Ok for those people comparing Prankster + confusion to paraflinch, here is why it's a terrible comparison and you should really stop:

1. As mentioned, nearly every Electric type puts a full stop to paraflinch. You don't even have to run anything special, by virtue of being an Electric type you stop it due to immunity to paralysis and resistance to Air Slash/Iron Head. It helps that quite a few outrun Togekiss and/or Jirachi. Only Own Tempo and Magic Bounce Pokemon don't get hit by priority confusion, and that has problems. Own Tempo Pokemon are generally unviable or have a better ability and Prankster users with Swagger have Foul Play to crush Magic Bounce users. Mega Absol is the sole Pokemon that does not falter in these categories, but its general viability is dubious and I have to sacrifice a Mega Slot for just one thing. Everything else cannot avoid getting confusion or have to sacrifice a Lum Berry or something for it.

2. You cannot be flinched if you outspeed the Pokemon. Almost nothing can "outspeed" priority confusion. It is extremely difficult to stop it from going out, which is definitely not the case with paraflinch.

3. Air Slash/Iron Head do not increase in damage against a paralyzed target, Foul Play does a large chunk to anything that has been Swagger'd. Your argument that "just like every special or defensive Pokemon can take many swagger hits to the face if they were unlucky" falls flat because of the SwagPlay strategy. There is no guarantee you can kill them before they kill you. Swagger by itself doesn't kill, it is a means to an end.
 
Maybe I'm still playing a bunch of noobs, but the games still speak for themselves. A team with no attacking moves with mostly pokemon that are uu and under are massacring common ubers pokemon, sometimes I could win these battles with just Liepard and Klefki if I had to. Either way, I'm 5-0 right now so I'm bound to start playing some real players soon and we'll see what happens there.
No, it really doesn't say much at all. Before Xerneas became a thing, I (not a good player) did really well in Ubers with my RU team. Some of these people don't even remember to give EVs to their Pokemon, and I've actually seen someone who gave their Arceus an Armor Fossil as its held item... not to mention all the times people tried to use Thunder and Volt Switch against Quagsire, multiple times in a row. Foul Play is going to hurt a team literally full of physical attackers really hard either way.
 
This thread is hilarious. If its really a problem then ban the real culprit which is ThunderWave.

*Waits as everyone rushes to make an excuse to keep Thunderwave and ignores the fact that this strategy is only viable with ThunderWave/Glare/Stun Pore*.

Or, better yet, make Thunderwave Illegal if you have Swagger/ConfuseRay on your poke's moveset.
you've got a point, no one gives out about the chance of being parahaxed, people just have a grudge against confusion
 
First of all, notice how both players are around the 1000's rank. So you got two noobs playing against each other. Want to see how a Prankster vs normal team game between two skilled players in the uber ladder looks like? See this:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-74927155

And nobody is denying that prankster teams can win. The point is that you are not including the dozens of battle in which the prankster player lost because of luck.



Record is nothing. See if you get to the top 10 in the ladder.
Nice so just switch about 144 times until all six paraswag mons have no more Swagger left, assuming you haven't died to rocks or Foul Play, you win!
 

Age of Kings

of the Ash Legion
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
you've got a point, no one gives out about the chance of being parahaxed, people just have a grudge against confusion
Stop ignoring the posts that show otherwise, I just wrote up a thing as to why the two should not be compared. And to be clear, I oppose banning all confusion, I only think that Prankster + confusion should be banned.
 
No, it really doesn't say much at all. Before Xerneas became a thing, I (not a good player) did really well in Ubers with my RU team. Some of these people don't even remember to give EVs to their Pokemon, and I've actually seen someone who gave their Arceus an Armor Fossil as its held item... not to mention all the times people tried to use Thunder and Volt Switch against Quagsire, multiple times in a row. Foul Play is going to hurt a team literally full of physical attackers really hard either way.
I am going to do it. I am going to see how far I can get in Ubers using nothing but Foul Play.
 
Let me show you guys firsthand how stupid this strategy is, it deserves to be banned for being entirely luck based. I will add more links soon.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91396868
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91399385
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91400839
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91402001
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-91405413

Current Record: 5-0 on the Ubers ladder
Do it in the OU ladder, which is the tier where people want it banned. Get to around 1600-1800 with it and I will say this, you have an equal chance of losing as you have of winning, so it is not that easy to get there because the luck also plays against you.

And not related to your post, a lot of these teams get higher rankings because people simply forfeit not because the strategy is overpowered or over centralizing but because they hate playing against them. But people also hate playing stall, I use stall teams so I know, but we can't just ban stuff because they are not fun for people who play against them.
 
Do it in OU next. Unless you have a decent ranking in Ubers already, having replays for Ubers is an awful example. I don't mean any offense to people who play Ubers, but it definitely has the highest percentage of players who don't actually know what they're doing and just want to use Pokemon they think are cool. These people have really unbalanced teams, full of physical attackers (except for Jirachi using ... Hyper Beam, wow). If you want to show people that this strategy is ban-worthy, do it where people have better teams.
Hmmm...you're right about that. Ive already started in Ubers so I want to see how high I can climb, but Ill move on to OU after
 
Stop ignoring the posts that show otherwise, I just wrote up a thing as to why the two should not be compared. And to be clear, I oppose banning all confusion, I only think that Prankster + confusion should be banned.
Prankster+Confusion can be beat by switching.

Prankster+Confusion+ THUNDERWAVE = Switching is not the best idea.

Is everyone really this dense? The basis of Swagplay relies on Parafusion to begin with. It's what makes the strategy potent. Take out Thunderwave and the strategy is MAGNITUDES less effective.

Make Thunderwave Illegal to use if used on conjunction with Swagger. Problem solved.
 
Stop ignoring the posts that show otherwise, I just wrote up a thing as to why the two should not be compared. And to be clear, I oppose banning all confusion, I only think that Prankster + confusion should be banned.
A I wasn't talking about paraflinch just paralysis in general and B your not the only person here, you may be against full confusion ban (like me) but others are not
 
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