Sword & Shield Battle Mechanics Research

does Poltergeist work through a substitute or a protect???
There are move flags for these things, which are a routine matter to look up without having to test them. Poltergeist does not have the flag that says it pierces Substitute, and does have the flag that allows it to be blocked by Protect (as most moves do).
 
Can someone help me with this, please? I swear Shell Side Arm is the King Crimson of Pokemon....

Let's say, I have this G-Slowbro, Modest 6ivs, full sp atk evs. I set up Nasty Plot against a Chansey. Will Shell Side Arm hit her physical def with my boosted sp atk, will it target her sp def, or will it use Slowbro's univested Attack to hit Chansey's physical def?
 

drampa's grandpa

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Can someone help me with this, please? I swear Shell Side Arm is the King Crimson of Pokemon....

Let's say, I have this G-Slowbro, Modest 6ivs, full sp atk evs. I set up Nasty Plot against a Chansey. Will Shell Side Arm hit her physical def with my boosted sp atk, will it target her sp def, or will it use Slowbro's univested Attack to hit Chansey's physical def?
It will never use SpA to hit PDef, but it will take Nasty Plot into account. So whichever of the last two options does more will be used.
 
With the vague descrption of the move (and that symbol indicating it's a special move), I assumed at first it was an always special attack that could target both def depending on which is lower, but it seems much more than that. Thanks!
 
Now that a lot of pokémon are starting to forgo their item for poltergeist I wonder, can you see in an in-game battle stadium battle preview when one of your opponent's pokémon is itemless? And what about a free rules match with a friend?

I know in past gens you could see an itemless pokémon, but I'm not sure about sword and shield.
 
Now that a lot of pokémon are starting to forgo their item for poltergeist I wonder, can you see in an in-game battle stadium battle preview when one of your opponent's pokémon is itemless? And what about a free rules match with a friend?

I know in past gens you could see an itemless pokémon, but I'm not sure about sword and shield.
nope doesnt show if itemless or holding an item
 

DaWoblefet

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Expanding Force is confirmed to be a straightforward 1.5x BP modifier. Terrains are also a BP modifier, as previously established roughly 1.3x (precisely 5325/4096). This means that, no other modifiers applying, an Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain is 156 base power. It's important to note that this earlier test I put out earlier in this thread was mistaken. I'm going to just guess it was a typo on my part or something.

Level 50 181 Sp. Atk Alakazam using Expanding Force into 128 Sp. Def Orbeetle (spread move): 57 damage
And here's the math to prove it:

The difficulty with these tests is that Expanding Force and Psychic Terrain seem dependent on one another - we're looking at these two modifiers being applied together in the vast majority of cases, but they really should be teased apart to determine their modifiers individually before putting them back together to see if things can be made to work. The first test I did was rule out SadisticMystic's idea that Psychic Terrain + Expanding Force were being combined as a 2x BP modifier:

Test: Level 50 Starmie, 151 Sp. Atk Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain vs. 106 Sp. Def Corviknight, singles
Rolls: 63, 64, 65, 66, 71

63 proved it wasn't a raw 2x modifier, as a 160 BP move couldn't produce 63 given the other factors. Next, I tested Expanding Force + Electrify to remove the Terrain modifier, isolating Expanding Force by itself:

Test: Level 50, 101 Sp. Atk Electrified Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain vs. Magic Powdered Bolthund with 76 Sp. Def, singles
Rolls: 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72

72 indicates Expanding Force cannot be either a Sp. Atk modifier or a final damage modifier. It's highly, highly improbable Game Freak slotted the Expanding Force modifier anywhere else, so for now it's safe to say it's BP (though you can trivially easily prove this if needed, probably even with the rolls given already). Next up is locking down Terrain's modifier. Last generation it was a 1.5x modifier to base power, but it was changed to roughly 1.3x.

Test: Level 65, 218 Sp. Atk Volcarona using Psychic in Psychic Terrain vs. 188 Sp. Def Blissey
Rolls: 65, 77

These damage rolls demonstrate that Terrain, if it were a base power modifier, would have to have turned Psychic into either a 116 or 117 BP move, necessitating a modifier somewhere between 5257/4096 - 5347/4096. If Game Freak slotted Terrain where weather is at, it would have to be a base damage of 60 and turn into 77 prior to the random damage rolls, which would necessitate a modifier of 5223/4096 - 5290/4096 (which would be pretty weird, Game Freak hasn't used that range before afaik).

Test: Same as before but with Volcarona at +2 Sp. Atk
Rolls: 134, 136, 139, 140, 146, 149, 151, 153

If Psychic Terrain were a base power modifier, the base damage of this move would be 153; otherwise, if it were Sp. Atk, the base damage of the move would be 154. These are the damage rolls for base damage of 153 vs. 154:

153 base damage: 130, 131, 133, 134, 136, 137, 139, 140, 142, 143, 145, 146, 148, 149, 151, 153
154 base damage: 130, 132, 133, 135, 137, 138, 140, 141, 143, 144, 146, 147, 149, 150, 152, 154

All of the damage rolls line up with 153 base damage, which rules out Terrain as an Attack modifier with certainty. Additionally, if it were a weather modifier, the base damage would have to be 118, as the only possible value to make our damage rolls work is to be 153 by the time we reach the random damage rolls. Going from 118 -> 153 necessitates a modifier range of 5294/4096 - 5328/4096, which has no overlap with the previously established range of 5223/4096 - 5290/4096 and therefore proves Terrain is also not a weather modifier.

Similar math can be run to prove Terrain isn't a post-damage rolls modifier either, just from these two sets of rolls alone, but my notes on this are really bad so I'm just going to assume I did it right. Someone can fact check me if not, but given how consistent my end result is + other values I think it's gonna be impossible to say Terrain is a post-damage rolls mod.

Therefore, we have proved that Terrain is a base power modifier, like last generation. The only thing left is to determine the precise value. We know 5257/4096 - 5347/4096 is the BP range from our +0 Volcarona test.

Test: Level 61 Soaked Kadabra, 165 Sp. Atk, at +6 Sp. Atk using Confusion in Psychic Terrain vs. the same 188 Sp. Def Blissey
Rolls: 105, 111, 112, 114, 116

This narrows the range of possible values from 5284/4096 - 5347/4096.

Test: Same Kadabra using Psybeam in Psychic Terrain vs. same Blissey
Rolls: 146, 150, 152, 153

This narrows the range to 5325/4096 - 5347/4096. This is significant because 5324/4096 is the Life Orb modifier (so we've just ruled that out). Now, at this point it's almost certainly going to be 5325/4096, since that's what the other 1.3x base power modifiers use. But to be certain, we need to provide a distinction between 5325/4096 and 5326/4096. I chose to use Rollout Storage to do so; by using Rollout Storage, you can amplify a move's base power from 2x-32x by manipulating the number of Mimikyu/Eiscue you attack mid-Rollout. For this particular test, I used an Electrified Explosion in Electric Terrain with an 8x Rollout multiplier to give Explosion the distinction of 2600 BP vs. 2601 BP.

Test: level 8 Steelix, 20 Attack, at +2 Attack, with an 8x Rollout Storage multiplier, using Electrified Explosion in Electric Terrain against a Magic Powdered 102 Defense Heliolisk, at -2 Def, single target
Roll: 196

The base damage could have been 205 (2600 BP) or 206 (2601 BP). The distinction is here (I intentionally chose a set of damage rolls with no overlap):
205: 174, 176, 178, 180, 182, 184, 186, 188, 190, 192, 194, 196, 198, 200, 202, 205
206: 175, 177, 179, 181, 183, 185, 187, 189, 191, 193, 195, 197, 199, 201, 203, 206

Since I rolled 196, that means Terrain generated a 2600 BP move, which requires a 5325/4096 multiplier.

For completeness's sake, I went back and redid the Alakazam-Orbeetle test, and got the following rolls the second time:

Test: level 50 Alakazam, 181 Sp. Atk using Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain vs. Orbeetle with 128 Sp. Def
Rolls: 46, 47, 48, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55

Which lines up with the new conclusion that Terrain is 5325/4096x and Expanding Force is 1.5x (technically 6144/4096).

In addition, thanks to Rollout Storage, I was also able to test and confirm that both Expanding Force and Misty Explosion are BP modifiers and not moves with variable base power.

Test: Level 50 120 Sp. Atk Mew with Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain and a 2x Rollout Storage multiplier vs. Chansey with 125 Sp. Def (doubles)
Roll: 144

Test: Level 50 120 Sp. Atk Mew with Misty Explosion in Misty Terrain and a 2x Rollout Storage multiplier vs. Steelix with 86 Sp. Def (doubles)
Roll: 59

Test: Level 50 120 Sp. Atk Mew with Misty Explosion in Misty Terrain and a 4x Rollout Storage multiplier vs. Chansey with 125 Sp. Def (doubles)
Roll: 164

Many thanks to Cracticus for helping test!
 
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Expanding Force is confirmed to be a straightforward 1.5x BP modifier. Terrains are also a BP modifier, as previously established roughly 1.3x (precisely 5325/4096). This means that, no other modifiers applying, an Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain is 156 base power. It's important to note that this earlier test I put out earlier in this thread was mistaken. I'm going to just guess it was a typo on my part or something.



And here's the math to prove it:

The difficulty with these tests is that Expanding Force and Psychic Terrain seem dependent on one another - we're looking at these two modifiers being applied together in the vast majority of cases, but they really should be teased apart to determine their modifiers individually before putting them back together to see if things can be made to work. The first test I did was rule out SadisticMystic's idea that Psychic Terrain + Expanding Force were being combined as a 2x BP modifier:

Test: Level 50 Starmie, 151 Sp. Atk Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain vs. 106 Sp. Def Corviknight, singles
Rolls: 63, 64, 65, 66, 71

63 proved it wasn't a raw 2x modifier, as a 160 BP move couldn't produce 63 given the other factors. Next, I tested Expanding Force + Electrify to remove the Terrain modifier, isolating Expanding Force by itself:

Test: Level 50, 101 Sp. Atk Electrified Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain vs. Magic Powdered Bolthund with 76 Sp. Def, singles
Rolls: 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72

72 indicates Expanding Force cannot be either a Sp. Atk modifier or a final damage modifier. It's highly, highly improbable Game Freak slotted the Expanding Force modifier anywhere else, so for now it's safe to say it's BP (though you can trivially easily prove this if needed, probably even with the rolls given already). Next up is locking down Terrain's modifier. Last generation it was a 1.5x modifier to base power, but it was changed to roughly 1.3x.

Test: Level 65, 218 Sp. Atk Volcarona using Psychic in Psychic Terrain vs. 188 Sp. Def Blissey
Rolls: 65, 77

These damage rolls demonstrate that Terrain, if it were a base power modifier, would have to have turned Psychic into either a 116 or 117 BP move, necessitating a modifier somewhere between 5257/4096 - 5347/4096. If Game Freak slotted Terrain where weather is at, it would have to be a base damage of 60 and turn into 77 prior to the random damage rolls, which would necessitate a modifier of 5223/4096 - 5290/4096 (which would be pretty weird, Game Freak hasn't used that range before afaik).

Test: Same as before but with Volcarona at +2 Sp. Atk
Rolls: 134, 136, 139, 140, 146, 149, 151, 153

If Psychic Terrain were a base power modifier, the base damage of this move would be 153; otherwise, if it were Sp. Atk, the base damage of the move would be 154. These are the damage rolls for base damage of 153 vs. 154:

153 base damage: 130, 131, 133, 134, 136, 137, 139, 140, 142, 143, 145, 146, 148, 149, 151, 153
154 base damage: 130, 132, 133, 135, 137, 138, 140, 141, 143, 144, 146, 147, 149, 150, 152, 154

All of the damage rolls line up with 153 base damage, which rules out Terrain as an Attack modifier with certainty. Additionally, if it were a weather modifier, the base damage would have to be 118, as the only possible value to make our damage rolls work is to be 153 by the time we reach the random damage rolls. Going from 118 -> 153 necessitates a modifier range of 5294/4096 - 5328/4096, which has no overlap with the previously established range of 5223/4096 - 5290/4096 and therefore proves Terrain is also not a weather modifier.

Similar math can be run to prove Terrain isn't a post-damage rolls modifier either, just from these two sets of rolls alone, but my notes on this are really bad so I'm just going to assume I did it right. Someone can fact check me if not, but given how consistent my end result is + other values I think it's gonna be impossible to say Terrain is a post-damage rolls mod.

Therefore, we have proved that Terrain is a base power modifier, like last generation. The only thing left is to determine the precise value. We know 5257/4096 - 5347/4096 is the BP range from our +0 Volcarona test.

Test: Level 61 Soaked Kadabra, 165 Sp. Atk, at +6 Sp. Atk using Confusion in Psychic Terrain vs. the same 188 Sp. Def Blissey
Rolls: 105, 111, 112, 114, 116

This narrows the range of possible values from 5284/4096 - 5347/4096.

Test: Same Kadabra using Psybeam in Psychic Terrain vs. same Blissey
Rolls: 146, 150, 152, 153

This narrows the range to 5325/4096 - 5347/4096. This is significant because 5324/4096 is the Life Orb modifier (so we've just ruled that out). Now, at this point it's almost certainly going to be 5325/4096, since that's what the other 1.3x base power modifiers use. But to be certain, we need to provide a distinction between 5325/4096 and 5326/4096. I chose to use Rollout Storage to do so; by using Rollout Storage, you can amplify a move's base power from 2x-32x by manipulating the number of Mimikyu/Eiscue you attack mid-Rollout. For this particular test, I used an Electrified Explosion in Electric Terrain with an 8x Rollout multiplier to give Explosion the distinction of 2600 BP vs. 2601 BP.

Test: level 8 Steelix, 20 Attack, at +2 Attack, with an 8x Rollout Storage multiplier, using Electrified Explosion in Electric Terrain against a Magic Powdered 102 Defense Heliolisk, at -2 Def, single target
Roll: 196

The base damage could have been 205 (2600 BP) or 206 (2601 BP). The distinction is here (I intentionally chose a set of damage rolls with no overlap):
205: 174, 176, 178, 180, 182, 184, 186, 188, 190, 192, 194, 196, 198, 200, 202, 205
206: 175, 177, 179, 181, 183, 185, 187, 189, 191, 193, 195, 197, 199, 201, 203, 206

Since I rolled 196, that means Terrain generated a 2600 BP move, which requires a 5325/4096 multiplier.

For completeness's sake, I went back and redid the Alakazam-Orbeetle test, and got the following rolls the second time:

Test: level 50 Alakazam, 181 Sp. Atk using Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain vs. Orbeetle with 128 Sp. Def
Rolls: 46, 47, 48, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55

Which lines up with the new conclusion that Terrain is 5325/4096x and Expanding Force is 1.5x (technically 6144/4096).

In addition, thanks to Rollout Storage, I was also able to test and confirm that both Expanding Force and Misty Explosion are BP modifiers and not moves with variable base power.

Test: Level 50 120 Sp. Atk Mew with Expanding Force in Psychic Terrain and a 2x Rollout Storage multiplier vs. Chansey with 125 Sp. Def
Roll: 144

Test: Level 50 120 Sp. Atk Mew with Misty Explosion in Misty Terrain and a 2x Rollout Storage multiplier vs. Steelix with 86 Sp. Def
Roll: 59

Test: Level 50 120 Sp. Atk Mew with Misty Explosion in Misty Terrain and a 4x Rollout Storage multiplier vs. Chansey with 125 Sp. Def
Roll: 164

Many thanks to Cracticus for helping test!
What's the distinction between a move with variable base power and one with a BP modifier? Wouldn't the same value end up going into the damage calculation anyway in almost all cases?
 

Anubis

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I did a few more tests with Quick Draw and my findings support Marty's.

In 900 attacks, 268 of them triggered Quick Draw. This gives us a 95% confidence interval that does not include 25% or 33%.
1593445520781.png

Pooled with Marty's numbers, we get a perfect 336 out of 1120 = 0.3. Again, this 95% confidence interval does not include 25% or 33%.
1593445598905.png


I then tested Quick Draw with Quick Claw. In 1244 trials, Quick Claw activated 174 times (13.99%) and Quick Draw activated 394 times (31.67%). Never did both of them activate at the same time. I believe Quick Draw is being checked first (30% expected) and then if it fails, Quick Claw is checked (70% * 20% = 14%). Regardless, the CI for Quick Claw doesn't include 20% so it's likely not 20% there.

Some other findings:

The order of Quick Draw activation is different from the order of attacking if there is a speed tie.
Activation: opposing, opposing, mine, mine. Attacks: opposing, mine, mine, opposing. [video]

Quick Draw and Quick Claw are the same priority.
Activation: 1 Quick Draw, 4 Quick Draw, 2 Quick Claw, 3 Quick Claw. Attacks: 4, 2, 3, 1. [video]

Quick Draw and Quick Claw can alternate in activation.
Activation: 2 Quick Claw, 1 Quick Draw, 3 Quick Claw. Attacks: 1, 2, 3, 4. [video]

And yes, Quick Claw can also go before Quick Draw (since all previous examples show Draw going first).
Activation: 1 Quick Draw, 4 Quick Claw, 3 Quick Draw. Attacks: 4, 3, 1, 2 [video]

Here's my spreadsheet. I set up 2 bots to battle each other and basically counted numbers of activation per turn, which is why there are 4 on every row.

EDIT:
I also checked Quick Draw and Custap Berry interaction.

Quick Draw goes off before Custap Berry. Custap Berry isn't consumed in this case and gets eaten the next turn that Quick Draw doesn't activate. [1, 2]

The game mixes and matches Quick Draw and Custap Berry messages just like how it mixes and matches Quick Draw and Quick Claw activation messages. The order of activation doesn't correspond to attack order in a speed tie. [video]

Quick Claw and Custap Berry activation is also mixed up in a speed tie. [video]
 
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Mario With Lasers

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Ok I'm still a bit confused so just to be absolutely sure: Side Shell Arm is a move that either goes off Sp. Atk and hits at Sp. Def OR goes off Attack and hits at Def, depending on which combo gives more damage, right? No "300 Atk hitting 10 Sp. Def" shenanigans?
 
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Does Terrain Pulse change type if the user/opponent is not grounded?

Does Coaching work through protection? (Like if the ally protected the turn Coaching was used)

Does Meteor Beam take into account the Special Attack boost for its damage?
 

DaWoblefet

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Does Terrain Pulse change type if the user/opponent is not grounded?
Terrain Pulse requires the user to be grounded to change type / receive additional BP. It doesn't matter if the target is grounded.

Something else I forgot to ask is does Crafty Shield block it?
Nope, Crafty Shield doesn't block Coaching either.

I meant is the damage calculated on the charge turn or the attack turn?
The damage of Meteor Beam, like all two-turn moves, is determined on the turn it actually attacks the target. It's no different than using Nasty Plot one turn then Thunderbolt the next turn.
 
I meant is the damage calculated on the charge turn or the attack turn?
The only moves that have ever calculated damage on the charge turn were Future Sight and Doom Desire prior to gen 5, which they changed partly when they got rid of the typeless damage type and partly because of the weirdness involved in using the defensive stats of the Pokemon that was in on the charge turn instead of the target which was actually hit.
 
Comfey has the ability Triage, goving it +3 priority on any healing moves. This includes attacks, such as giga drain and draining kiss. However, it now has access to Pollen Puff, which damages enemies but heals allies. How does Triage come into play here? Also, would priority shift if a Rage Powder/Follow Me would come into play?
 
Comfey has the ability Triage, goving it +3 priority on any healing moves. This includes attacks, such as giga drain and draining kiss. However, it now has access to Pollen Puff, which damages enemies but heals allies. How does Triage come into play here? Also, would priority shift if a Rage Powder/Follow Me would come into play?
Pollen Puff does not get affected by Triage
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Triage_(Ability)
If redirected it does damage as normal.
 
So I don't think this has been already researched: the new starters g-max moves ignore the effect of friend guard in double battles. This is interesting because the description suggests the opposite: "This move can be used on the target regardless of its Abilities". Since only the target's ability is mentioned, in theory friend guard should reduce damage for the partner targeted by the g-max move. However friend guard is ignored as shown by the following test done using G-max Rillaboom vs charizard and clefairy.
These are the calcs for Rillaboom vs charizard with and without friend guard

28+ Atk Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Charizard in Grassy Terrain with Friend Guard: 36-43 (23.3 - 27.9%) -- 83.7% chance to 4HKO

28+ Atk Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Charizard in Grassy Terrain: 48-57 (31.1 - 37%) -- 81.9% chance to 3HKO

During the in game test charizard lost 54 hp, which means a damage of around 35%, which is incosistent with friend guard being active.
 

DaWoblefet

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So I don't think this has been already researched: the new starters g-max moves ignore the effect of friend guard in double battles. This is interesting because the description suggests the opposite: "This move can be used on the target regardless of its Abilities". Since only the target's ability is mentioned, in theory friend guard should reduce damage for the partner targeted by the g-max move. However friend guard is ignored as shown by the following test done using G-max Rillaboom vs charizard and clefairy.
These are the calcs for Rillaboom vs charizard with and without friend guard

28+ Atk Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Charizard in Grassy Terrain with Friend Guard: 36-43 (23.3 - 27.9%) -- 83.7% chance to 4HKO

28+ Atk Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Charizard in Grassy Terrain: 48-57 (31.1 - 37%) -- 81.9% chance to 3HKO

During the in game test charizard lost 54 hp, which means a damage of around 35%, which is incosistent with friend guard being active.
Friend Guard is ignored by all Mold Breaker effects, including Photon Geyser and Mold Breaker itself. The G-Max starter moves are just another Mold Breaker variant. I know personally that it's been that way since at least Gen 7 now, though Bulbapedia says it's been since Gen 5: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mold_Breaker_(Ability)
 
Friend Guard is ignored by all Mold Breaker effects, including Photon Geyser and Mold Breaker itself. The G-Max starter moves are just another Mold Breaker variant. I know personally that it's been that way since at least Gen 7 now, though Bulbapedia says it's been since Gen 5: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Mold_Breaker_(Ability)
I agree, however the description of the move seems to imply that it's not equivalent to mold breaker, since it makes reference only to the target's ability, and not potentially to the ability of another pokemon whose ability is affecting the partner. As far as friend guard is concerned, the test does suggest that the new gmax moves are indeed equivalent to mold breaker. By the way this was already implemented correctly on showdown, however I did not see any research post on this topic, hence the in game test.
 

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