Metagame SwSh Little Cup Data and Speculation

Altariel von Sweep

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Sword and
Shield Data and
Speculation

(Banner pending) (Approved by Coconut)
Datamine Pastebins:
Pokemon / Types / Stats / Abilities / etc
Learnsets by Pokemon (1/2)
Learnsets by Pokemon (2/2)
Learnsets by Move
Move Descriptions
Ability Descriptions

Foreign Event Pokemon

Potentially Little Cup relevant Pokémon
- TBD

Future Event Pokemon
Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Rowlet, Litten, Popplio, Meltan

Important Mechanics Changes:
- All Z Moves, Hidden Power, Pursuit, Return, and Frustration have been removed
- Rapid Spin raises the user's Speed by 1 stage

Little Cup Exclusives
Galarian Meowth
======
Galar Dex: #182
Base Stats: 50.65.55.40.40.40 (BST:
Abilities: Pickup (1) | Tough Claws (2) | Unnerve (H)
Type: Steel


Galarian Ponyta
======
Galar Dex: #333
Base Stats: 50.85.55.65.65.90 (BST: 410)
Abilities: Run Away (1) | Pastel Veil (2) | Anticipation (H)
Type: Psychic


Galarian Farfetch'd
======
Galar Dex: #218
Base Stats: 52.95.55.58.62.55 (BST: 377)
Abilities: Steadfast (1) | Steadfast (2) | Scrappy (H)
Type: Fighting


Galarian Corsola
======
Galar Dex: #236
Base Stats: 60.55.100.65.100.30 (BST: 410)
Abilities: Weak Armor (1) | Weak Armor (2) | Cursed Body (H)
Type: Ghost


Galarian Zigzagoon
======
Galar Dex: #31
Base Stats: 38.30.41.30.41.60 (BST: 240)
Abilities: Pickup (1) | Gluttony (2) | Quick Feet (H)
Type: Dark / Normal


Galarian Darumaka
======
Galar Dex: #367
Base Stats: 70.90.45.15.45.50 (BST: 315)
Abilities: Hustle (1) | Hustle (2) | Inner Focus (H)
Type: Ice


Galarian Yamask
======
Galar Dex: #327
Base Stats: 38.55.85.30.65.30 (BST: 303)
Abilities: Wandering Spirit (1) | Wandering Spirit (2) | Wandering Spirit (H)
Type: Ground / Ghost


Grookey
======
Galar Dex: #1
Base Stats: 50.65.50.40.40.65 (BST: 310)
Abilities: Overgrow (1) | Overgrow (2) | Grassy Surge (H)
Type: Grass


Scorbunny
======
Galar Dex: #4
Base Stats: 50.71.40.40.40.69 (BST: 310)
Abilities: Blaze (1) | Blaze (2) | Libero (H)
Type: Fire


Sobble
======
Galar Dex: #7
Base Stats: 50.40.40.70.40.70 (BST: 310)
Abilities: Torrent (1) | Torrent (2) | Sniper (H)
Type: Water


Skwovet
======
Galar Dex: #24
Base Stats: 70.55.55.35.35.25 (BST: 275)
Abilities: Cheek Pouch (1) | Cheek Pouch (2) | Gluttony (H)
Type: Normal


Rookidee
======
Galar Dex: #21
Base Stats: 38.47.35.33.35.57 (BST: 245)
EV Yield: 0.0.0.0.0.1
Abilities: Keen Eye (1) | Unnerve (2) | Big Pecks (H)
Type: Flying


Blipbug
======
Galar Dex: #10
Base Stats: 25.20.20.25.45.45 (BST: 180)
Abilities: Swarm (1) | Compound Eyes (2) | Telepathy (H)
Type: Bug


Nickit
======
Galar Dex: #29
Base Stats: 40.28.28.47.52.50 (BST: 245)
Abilities: Run Away (1) | Unburden (2) | Stakeout (H)
Type: Dark


Gossifleur
======
Galar Dex: #126
Base Stats: 40.40.60.40.60.10 (BST: 250)
Abilities: Cotton Down (1) | Regenerator (2) | Effect Spore (H)
Type: Grass


Wooloo
======
Galar Dex: #34
Base Stats: 42.40.55.40.45.48 (BST: 270)
Abilities: Fluffy (1) | Run Away (2) | Bulletproof (H)
Type: Normal


Chewtle
======
Galar Dex: #42
Base Stats: 50.64.50.38.38.44 (BST: 284)
Abilities: Strong Jaw (1) | Shell Armor (2) | Swift Swim (H)
Type: Water


Yamper
======
Galar Dex: #46
Base Stats: 59.45.50.40.50.26 (BST: 270)
Abilities: Ball Fetch (1) | Ball Fetch (2) | Rattled (H)
Type: Electric


Rolycoly
======
Galar Dex: #161
Base Stats: 30.40.50.40.50.30 (BST: 240)
Abilities: Steam Engine (1) | Heatproof (2) | Flash Fire (H)
Type: Rock


Applin
======
Galar Dex: #205
Base Stats: 40.40.80.40.40.20 (BST: 260)
Abilities: Ripen (1) | Gluttony (2) | Bulletproof (H)
Type: Grass / Dragon


Silicobra
======
Galar Dex: #312
Base Stats: 52.57.75.35.50.46 (BST: 315)
Abilities: Sand Spit (1) | Shed Skin (2) | Sand Veil (H)
Type: Ground


Arrokuda
======
Galar Dex: #180
Base Stats: 41.63.40.40.30.66 (BST: 280)
Abilities: Swift Swim (1) | Swift Swim (2) | Propeller Tail (H)
Type: Water


Toxel
======
Galar Dex: #310
Base Stats: 40.38.35.54.35.40 (BST: 242)
Abilities: Rattled (1) | Static (2) | Klutz (H)
Type: Electric / Poison


Sizzlipede
======
Galar Dex: #159
Base Stats: 50.65.45.50.50.45 (BST: 305)
Abilities: Flash Fire (1) | White Smoke (2) | Flame Body (H)
Type: Fire / Bug


Clobbopus
======
Galar Dex: #351
Base Stats: 50.68.60.50.50.32 (BST: 310)
Abilities: Limber (1) | Limber (2) | Technician (H)
Type: Fighting


Sinistea
======
Galar Dex: #335
Base Stats: 40.45.45.74.54.50 (BST: 308)
Abilities: Weak Armor (1) | Weak Armor (2) | Cursed Body (H)
Type: Ghost


Hatenna
======
Galar Dex: #241
Base Stats: 42.30.45.56.53.39 (BST: 265)
Abilities: Healer (1) | Anticipation (2) | Magic Bounce (H)
Type: Psychic


Impidimp
======
Galar Dex: #238
Base Stats: 45.45.30.55.40.50 (BST: 265)
Abilities: Prankster (1) | Frisk (2) | Pickpocket (H)
Type: Dark / Fairy


Milcery
======
Galar Dex: #185
Base Stats: 45.40.40.50.61.34 (BST: 270)
Abilities: Sweet Veil (1) | Sweet Veil (2) | Aroma Veil (H)
Type: Fairy


Snom
======
Galar Dex: #349
Base Stats: 30.25.35.45.30.20 (BST: 185)
Abilities: Shield Dust (1) | Shield Dust (2) | Ice Scales (H)
Type: Ice / Bug


Cufant
======
Galar Dex: #302
Base Stats: 72.80.49.40.49.40 (BST: 330)
Abilities: Sheer Force (1) | Sheer Force (2) | Heavy Metal (H)
Type: Steel


Dreepy
======
Galar Dex: #395
Base Stats: 28.60.30.40.30.82 (BST: 270)
Abilities: Clear Body (1) | Infiltrator (2) | Cursed Body (H)
Type: Dragon / Ghost
 
This meta seems interesting. Its shaken up alot from the removal of key pokemon and addition of few potentially viable pokemon. Here are my thoughts

Things that stand out:
Knock off distribution is super bad right now, only users are: ferroseed, machop, woobat, farfetchd, vullaby, krabby, mincinno, rowlet, grookey, nickit, sizzlipede. Vullaby still getting it sucks for eviolite users but oh well

Mienfoo and Foongus are gone. This is huge and opens up so many new potential threats that were invalidated by this core

Ferroseed HUGELY benefits from removal of hidden power as many mons straight up dont touch it now


As for my thoughts on new mons:
We finally get our first grassy terrain user in Grookey, which has a excellent movepool overall thanks to knock off, uturn, swords dance, wood hammer and hammer arm, definitelly will be an awesome mon

Scorbunny gets protean u-turn, gunk shot, high jump kick, double edge, zen headbutt and overheat. Could be a decent scarfer i suppose?

Galarian Ponyta keeps morning sun, gets stab play rough, zen headbutt and for coverage it gets mystical fire and high horsepower. Gonna be an interesting mon to watch out for sure

As mentioned Galarian Corsola looks incredibly good being able to strength sap, willowisp, rocks and blocking spin

Sinistea has decent spa + it gets shell smash omega lul, doubt itll be broken since we it cant touch vullaby or pawniard but its cool regardless

Gossifleur is a regen mon with rapid spin + aromatherapy. Bad bulk but could see some use cause of utility

Milcery gets recover and aromatherapy, pretty nice to finally get a fairy with a one turn recovery, too bad its stats are below average. Could this become viable somehow?


Aside from that i dont see much standing out. Dreepy, applin, blipbug have nice typings but literally no movepools and the others have such horrendous stats nothing can really save them
 

Quote

Smogon's Resident Robot
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LC Co-Leader
If this list is anything to go by, Ghosts are going to be amazing in this metagame. The lack of Pursuit in the game means Gastly can fire off nukes almost entirely unpunished. Galarian Corsola is practically unkillable before a Knock Off. It's got Strength Sap, WoW, and that good ol' Mirror Coat just in case. Great mon overall, if not busted. Sinistea might be able to pull off a sweep in some scenarios (once Darks are taken out).

Hidden Power no longer existing leaves a big impact because now Ferroseed will on average live a lot longer in its games. Gastly has to opt for hitting neutrally more often, Vullaby can't deal with Onix as well, and specially offensive Pokemon in general now have one less coverage option to work with.

Cutiefly might still be ridiculous, even without BP and Hidden Power.

I'll post more later but there's so much to look at rn and all I wanna do is start building. This meta looks super fun so far, but I'm not sure how Dynamax will affect it. It could make setup sweepers super busted. I'm intrigued for sure.
 

Altariel von Sweep

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I know I have been reiterating this statement for a few hours already, but this metagame has suffered a REALLY big face wash with Hidden Power and Pursuit gone, as well as previous standalone threats in Abra, Mienfoo, Foongus, Staryu and many others being gone from the metagame. From the parting point, I will go on about the winners and losers of the metagame, as well as speak my mind about the new Pokemon I feel that will be relevant in the SwSh LC metagame.

Also fuck Dynamax, that shit's borked.

Winners
Onix
This thing will be absolutely the to-go pick for role compression in Gen 8 teams, as the removal of Hidden Power means that Vullaby cannot check it anymore. On top of that, Foongus, Magnemite and Staryu gone means that it is not afraid of being beaten by bulkier or faster threats. That said, all of its 3 sets in SturdyJuice + Endure, Weak Armor Eviolite and Weak Armor Curse have gotten a lot better being able to put the threats its supposed to beat on check more easily. If it was not enough, with the transition from SM to SwSh Onix obtained Dragon Dance + Head Smash, meaning that now it can exert a role compression of setup sweeper + Flying check + Electric inmunity + Stealth Rock setter, all in one. What's better is that it does not even need to run Stealth Rock and can decide to run coverage to beat Pokemon such as Spritzee, which other sets couldn't do without a boost. This means a lot for Onix since it now cannot be checked reliably by Grass-types, as Rock Head Head Smash is likely to severely dent those threats, not to mention that a boosted Head Smash is a really strong-hitting STAB, to the point it becomes impossible for so many Pokemon to put a halt on it. The only Pokemon I could see putting a lot of work on are Trapinch, which outright traps Onix like it has always had been, except it has to be careful if it's boosted, and Mudbray, which has the raw bulk required to withstand anything Onix throws to it. Definitely the #1 Pokemon in the metagame.

Mudbray
Many of the Grass- and Water-types in Snivy, Foongus and Staryu being gone means big things for Mudbray, which will be able to freely spam its STAB Earthquake with 20 Attack to make a dent on many defensive threats. Moreover, it is the best check to Onix now due to it getting Head Smash and Dragon Dance, and Mudbray is bulky enough to withstand anythhing it gets thrown at. Surprisingly, not only offensive sets will put on a lot of work, RestTalk sets will also be really good to stop Onix on its tracks. What I see the problem, though, is that it kept the problems of being slow and easy to cripple from Gen 7.

Trapinch
If Trapinch was already busted back in Gen 7, now it will be even more with many Grass-types and Water-types gone, acting as the best Arena Trap user in the metagame. Abra gone is also big, as Trapinch can now run physically defensive sets more easily to take on the newly buffed Onix, as well as Pawniard, to enhance the wallbreaking capabilites of Gastly, Sinistea and Vullaby, as well as other cores like Flying spam (Vullaby + Wingull, will speak about this one on losers later)

Gastly
Although Hidden Power being erased means that Gastly cannot threaten Steel-types such as Ferroseed and Pawniard anymore, the removal of Pursuit and his archnemesis in Abra, in combination with the acquisition of Sludge Wave means things will shake when Gastly comes into battle. LO Sludge Wave is a much stronger STAB that can bypass Bulletproof Pokemon, which means that Bulletproof gimmicks are gone. The loss of Hidden Power doesn't turn out to be big, since Trapinch can take care of Pawniard while Gastly makes use of its Ghost STAB in Shadow Ball, and can pick any coverage to take care of the threats it needs to beat. Basically, it is Gastly, but likely to get a suspect as possibly the best wallbreaker in the metagame, where Ghost types go stupidly wild.

Mareanie
Z-Moves being removed, as well as Abra, Foongus and Magnemite gone is a really big thing for Mareanie. The removal of Knock Off on one specific threat in Timburr also means big as it can now pose as a big threat against it. Mareanie no longer has to be afraid of being trapped by Diglett and Iron Defense sets have gotten insanely better with Ground types such as Trapinch and Onix on the lose. Iron Defense Mareanie outbulks many threats, from Trapinch to setup sweepers like Shellder, and in conjunction with Ferroseed, it is likely to be the best defensive core in the metagame, checking each other's threats.

Ferroseed
With so many of the useful Fighting-types, Magnemite and Hidden Power gone, Ferroseed is going to have a good life as one of the best defensive threats in the metagame. It will probably use the same set, but much more easily, being part of common defensive cores such as the Ferroseed + Spritzee that rose to glory on Gen 7, or the much better Mareanie + Ferroseed, as well as a role compression tool. Vullaby can still take care of it with Heat Wave, though.

Pawniard
Another one of the biggest winners, in the same fashion as Ferroseed and Onix, Pawniard will also be one of the easiest Pokemon to attach on common metagame teams thanks to its good asset of resistances, mostly in a Ghost type centered metagame even with the loss of Pursuit. That in combination with its bread and butter Stealth Rock set and role compression will provide a lot of help in this metagame. Scarf sets have taken a big blow with Pursuit gone, but could still be used to win the mirror matchup with Brick Break, though. Where this Pokemon will shine the most is in Web teams, with many offensive threats being able to go wild and no Snivy to put a stop to it. I'd dare to say it's the number #2 Pokemon to use.

Drilbur
With the big buff of Rapid Spin and Staryu, Snivy and Foongus gone it means that it can now act as a setup sweeper that can get a Speed boost whenever it needs to remove hazards, becoming even more dangerous now. Not even Onix would be able to beat it once it gets a Swords Dance boost, but for now it may have a really good niche on Web teams removing stuff and acting as a really powerful Pokemon. Once the metagame settles down it may become a staple for hazard removal along with Vullaby and maybe Timburr.

Cutiefly and Dewpider
No Snivy means Webs will be on the lose, and much more than ever. I will go on about the best users out there:

While it has been confirmed that Baton Pass is already banned (even before the metagame began) and Hidden Power is gone, that doesn't mean that Cutiefly is not going to be stupid. Being the fastest Sticky Web user in the metagame while having a setup move in Quiver Dance means that it can resolve a lot of battles in the early turns with its strong STAB in Moonblast and vast coverage. To add on top of that, many threats such as Dragon Dance Rock Head Head Smash Onix, Gastly, SD Drilbur can clean teams with the help of Webs thanks to how stupidly easy these threats can clean teams while providing support. It is probably the first quickban of the metagame.

On Dewpider's case, while Cutiefly may overshadow it in the first week, Surskit being gone means that it will be the best Web setter out there once Cutiefly is gone. Dewpider benefits from the fact that Mienfoo and Magnemite are no more, and the loss of Snivy benefits it even more than it is supposed to, since it is slow to be a web setter, but can make up for it being able to take out common Pokemon such as Onix and Mudbray with its special set (probably the best and the one that should be used) and using utility options such as Mirror Coat to reflect hazards.


Losers
Diglett
With the loss of Groundium Z, Diglett stopped being menacing to most of the Pokemon it used to trap. On top of that, being outclassed by Trapinch in terms of utility means that it won't be as notable in the early stages of the metagame, although Scarf sets can put work on by trapping other Scarf users that act as revenge killers that try to take out Gastly, like Scarf Pawniard.

Wingull
Another Pokemon affected by the loss of Z-Moves, Wingull can no longer fire off a Supersonic Skystrike based off Hurricane, which means it makes it a much less reliable STAB option to hit Grass and Fighting types. Nonetheless, Flying/Water keeps being a really annoying offensive typing that can beat many of the common metagame threats and Scald is still annoying for Pawniard to face, as it can be rendered unable to act if burned.

Vullaby
Vullaby is still really good guys. What screwed it over is the loss of Hidden Power, used to check Onix and Pawniard reliably, meaning it cannot neither threaten Onix or OHKO Pawniard on the switch. What I can see, however, is Nasty Plot sets rising to glory again like it happened with early SM LC, and more considering that it is the only Pokemon able to put a halt on Sinistea.


Now, onto the new Pokemon:

Galarian Ponyta
Galarian Ponyta is one of the most interesting Pokemon out there. It has some moves inherited from its Kantonian form in High Horsepower to hit Pawniard, and has Zen Headbutt. I could see it being a physical menace that can make use of Hypnosis to force switches and then abuse its firepower to act as a strong answer to Fighting-types and Pawniard.

Galarian Farfetch'd
Being one of the newly introduced Fighting-types, a bulky Fighting type able to reach 20 Attack while having passable bulk and Scrappy means it has very limited switch-ins, not even Gastly would be able to face a Swords Dance boosted Close Combat from Farfetch'd. Only drawback I see is the lack of actual recovery ot keep eingb able to apply pressure on the opposing team.

Galarian Corsola
If you defend that this thing won't be broken, please reconsider. This behemoth is insanely bulky for LC's standards, with 25/18/18 bulk, Will-O-Wisp, Strength Sap and Hex to be enough of a really annoying defensive threat. Being able to stomach anything that is not a Shadow Ball Gastly/Sinistea is really big to start crippling the opposing team. On top of that, Cursed Body makes it a really much better Frillish and an easy choice for Webs as a spinblocker.

Grookey
Grookey right now may not be as good without its HA, but when Grassy Surge arrives via event, oh boy, this Pokemon is going to be so udes in many kinds of cores. It is decently fast and has really good attacking options in Wood Hammer, Drain Punch and U-turn for momentum, as well as a good boosting move in Swords Dance. +2 Wood Hammer on Grassy Surge is going to be really hard to tank, and doesn't matter if you tank it, it has other options and can even Substitute on a switch! The Grassy Surge part is the one that matters, since it is going to make Pokemon like Mareanie, Pawniard and Cufant so MUCH better, more with Mareanie, as the momentum it provides is gigantic for it, weakening strong attacks from behemoths like Onix and Mudbray.

Scorbunny
Froakie but it is cooler and way better. Scorbunny benefits from the loss of many offensive threats such as Staryu, Abra and Mienfoo, and has a lot of really good attacks in Blaze Kick, Gunk Shot, High Jump Kick and U-turn for coverage, being able to hit anything fast and strong. Hell, the type changing is really good for any matchup it comes! This Pokemon is going to be really good and funny to play once Libero arrives.

Sizzlipede
While Sizzlipede may look lackluster, it has very good options that Larvesta didn't have in Knock Off and Scald. Not only acts as a Fighting check, it can also take out items and threaten Onix and other Ground-types with Scald. Only drawback is the lack of momentum and the glaring weakness to Stealth Rock, though I could see it working on some teams.

Sinistea
What may be our first Gen 8 LC Pokemon ban is a really insane Pokemon that can Shell Smash and cripple enemies with Will-O-Wisp. Not only that, if Dark-types are removed, things are going to get really ugly, meaning that only Pawniard and Vullaby can handle it, and even so +2 Shadow Ball 2HKOes Pawniard, leaving the list of check on Vullaby. Moreover, hitting it only makes Stored Power stronger with the +2 Speed boost, meaning that burning opponents is really benefitial. Pairing this Pokemon with Trapinch will make it a bigger headache than it looks like.

I think that is all I have to offer when it comes to my insight of what Gen 8 LC will look like. Peace, guys.
 
Last edited:

trubbish

Banned deucer.
Idk if this is listed anywhere but here are all the LC pokemon in the game

Bulbasaur
Charmander
Squirtle
Caterpie
Vulpix
Vulpix - Alola
Oddish
Diglett
Meowth
Meowth - Alola
Meowth - Galar
Growlithe
Machop
Ponyta
Ponyta - Galar
Farfetch'd - Galar
Shellder
Gastly
Onix
Krabby
Koffing
Rhyhorn
Goldeen
Eevee
Hoothoot
Chinchou
Pichu
Cleffa
Togepi
Natu
Wooper
Sneasel
Swinub
Corsola - Galar
Remoraid
Tyrogue
Larvitar
Zigzagoon
Zigzagoon - Galar
Lotad
Seedot
Wingull
Ralts
Nincada
Electrike
Wailmer
Trapinch
Barboach
Corphish
Baltoy
Feebas
Duskull
Wynaut
Snorunt
Budew
Combee
Cherubi
Shellos
Drifloon
Stunky
Bronzor
Bonsly
Mime Jr.
Munchlax
Riolu
Hippopotas
Skorupi
Croagunk
Mantyke
Snover
Purrloin
Munna
Pidove
Roggenrola
Woobat
Drilbur
Timburr
Tympole
Cottonee
Darumaka
Darumake - Galar
Dwebble
Scraggy
Yamask
Yamask - Galar
Trubbish
Minicinno
Gothita
Solosis
Vanillite
Karrablast
Frillish
Joltik
Ferroseed
Klink
Elgyem
Litwick
Axew
Cubchoo
Shelmet
Golett
Pawniard
Rufflet
Deino
Vullaby
Bunnelby
Pancham
Espurr
Honedge
Spritzee
Swirlix
Inkay
Binnicle
Helioptile
Goomy
Phantump
Pumpkaboo
Bergmite
Noibat
Rowlet
Litten
Popplio
Grubbin
Cutiefly
Mareanie
Mudbray
Dewpider
Morelull
Salandit
Stufful
Bounsweet
Steenee
Wimpod
Jangmo-o
Meltan ?

Grookey
Scorbunny
Sobble
Skwovet
Rookidee
Blipbug
Nickit
Gossifleur
Wooloo
Chewtle
Yamper
Rolycoly
Applin
Silicobra
Arrokuda
Toxel
Sizzlipede
Clobbopus
Sinistea
Hatenna
Impidimp
Milcery
Snom
Cufant
Dreepy
 

KSG

formerly Ulysses
I think early on offensive cores with something like DD Onix + Cutiefly + a ghost are going to reign supreme. Gastly will be an absurd threat so until it potentially gets banned I would slot it into that third slot, but CM Corsola could also be great for a bit of defensive utility. DD Onix will bait stuff like Timburr which is set-up fodder for Cutiefly, and past that point all you really need is a way to deal with Mudbray and Ferro.

Curious to see what Corsola set wins the day. The thing is extremely hard to kill and strong enough to do damage with WA+CM, but it has 4MSS and will be limited in what it chooses as its coverage. Shadow Ball and Strength Sap are likely musts, and after that you have to choose between Will-o-Wisp, Scald, Ice Beam (Vullaby), Earth Power (Pawn)...and without a burn move you can't do anything to Munchlax at all, although Munch can no longer trap you and with Strength Sap or burn you may be able to beat it 1v1 by getting to +6, so long as you have a move that can damage it.
 

Altariel von Sweep

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I will probs sound like a noob when I ask but, what seperates Trapinch from Diglett as a trapper?
The sheer bulk it posseses, along with Giga Drain, allows Trapinch to switch into Onix and Pawniard quite reliably, and take them out, a feat that Diglett cannot do. Trapinch now can ignore Pawniard as this one has lost Knock Off, preserving its bulk and taking it out more reliably.
 
pawniard losing both knock off and pursuit imo is catastrophic for it's viability, forcing it down to sucker punch/night slash as it's best stabs are rough. It might have been able to survive losing one and keep on trucking, but losing both does not bode well. It still has nice resists and gets a lot of nice utility moves, but its days as a premier offensive threat might be behind it.
 
To be fair, it's not known yet whether Pawniard has actually lost Knock Off. The datamines only show us that you can't teach the move to Pawniard in SWSH, but depending on how Pokemon Home works you may very well be able to transfer a Pawniard from a previous gen who already knows the move.
 

Coconut

W
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Moderator
Do you guys expect Chinchou to be complete crud again this gen like it was in Gen 7?
Actually no! Chinchou is now one of the best Electric types in the game from what it looks like, and in a meta with so many Flying types, his typing will most likely prove to be beneficial, unlike last gen. It still has the same issues of being trapped by not one, not two, but three trappers now, but it fills a niche that most mons will not be able to fill, so it might be worth your team slot.
 
Actually no! Chinchou is now one of the best Electric types in the game from what it looks like, and in a meta with so many Flying types, his typing will most likely prove to be beneficial, unlike last gen. It still has the same issues of being trapped by not one, not two, but three trappers now, but it fills a niche that most mons will not be able to fill, so it might be worth your team slot.
I know diglett and trapinch, but what is the third trapper? Is Gothita unbanned?
 
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The Avalanches

I’m probably not gonna love Gen 8
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Correct! We haven't officially announced the banlist as of yet, but we're looking at a very light banlist to start the generation off, so Gothita will almost certainly be free at the start of the gen, along with Trapinch.
Just leave sneasel + swirlix on the ban list and let us work out what needs to go after that, imo
 
I think Woobat got a pretty nice buff with Nasty Plot. 4x special attack after one turn is looking pretty good, and I've always thought Woobat had potential.

Impidimp gets prankster but I'm not sure how much use it can get out of it.
 

Ereshkigal

MERCI LES MAGICIENS
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I think Woobat got a pretty nice buff with Nasty Plot. 4x special attack after one turn is looking pretty good, and I've always thought Woobat had potential.
actually +4is just 3x special attack not 4x but yeah it is a good buff for this mon even if i don't see it get a huge rise in usage.
 

Jaajgko

I will disband the soccer club
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Just leave sneasel + swirlix on the ban list and let us work out what needs to go after that, imo
Swirlix doesn't have access to Belly Drum in the new games, so until poke transfer is available, Swirlix seems like it can be allowed in LC.

Chinchou looks like a pretty good Dynamax user, as its max geyser sets up rain and its max lightning sets up electric terrain, boosting both of its stabs and its already huge HP stat of 24 rises to 48. In a scenario where an Eviolite Chinchou dynamaxed, set rain up and has 2 turns of Dynamax remaining, it wins the 1v1 against non eviolite Dynamaxed Diglett, if the Chinchou has more than 42/48 HP remaining.

236 Atk Life Orb Diglett Max Quake (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 52 Def Dynamaxed Eviolite Chinchou: 34-42 (70.8 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
228 SpA Chinchou Max Geyser (130 BP) vs. +1 36 HP / 0 SpD Dynamaxed Diglett in Rain: 38-48 (105.5 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Diglett is at +1 SpD because it's the secondary effect of Max Quake.

228 SpA Chinchou May Geyser (130 BP) vs. +1 36 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Diglett in Rain: 30-36 (83.3 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO so you need to be very lucky to kill it. Hydro Pump can help it raise the probability to 50% :
228 SpA Chinchou Max Geyser (140 BP) vs. +1 36 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Diglett in Rain: 32-38 (88.8 - 105.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

So if you Dynamax your Chinchou and directly get a kill with Max Geyser, Diglett is usually gonna have to wait another turn to come in to trap you. But all of that is pretty situational. However, if you haven't Dynamaxed your Chinchou, and the Diglett comes in to trap you, it is still a delicate situation because the Diglett needs to Dynamax in order to safely beat the Chinchou, but if the Chinchou doesn't dynamax, the Diglett will have wasted its dynamax, and if the Chinchou dynamaxes and the Diglett doesn't out of greed, the Chinchou is then generally in a pretty comfortable situation. So yeah point is, Chinchou can still get trapped by Diglett but it's not as free as it was before, and with Wingull being allowed in the early gen I expect Chinchou to be pretty decent, like B rank.

Another mon that looks pretty nice is Koffing, with Timburr not having access to Knock Off it can't hurt Koffing much and since switch-ins to Mudbray are extremely limited, having that nice Levitate is very useful (but it still takes a lot from Heavy Slam). It also switches into very strong new mons like Grookey, Scorbunny and Farfetch'd. And with its natural enemy, Abra, being gone, it will be harder to take advantage of.

Finally, Corphish looks like an even greater threat, Stary and Snivy could wall it pretty well, and you needed a Z-Move to beat Foongus, so now that those are gone, the only walls are Ferroseed, Mareanie and Grookey which don't like switching into Knock Off that much. It also functions well as a revenge killer to the mighty dragon dance Onix, which looks to be a huge threat.
 

Merritt

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Swirlix doesn't have access to Belly Drum in the new games, so until poke transfer is available, Swirlix seems like it can be allowed in LC.
Nah, Swirlix is still pretty absurd. Drum was a good set and all, but CGCM was always better in my opinion and Swirlix's retained access to the moves necessary for that. It also of course keeps the whole aspect of "pick which type is the only one capable of stopping you" through Flamethrower/Psychic/Surf 4th move coverage (I'd say Flamethrower honestly, pair with Diglett or Trapinch or Gothita support to eliminate poisons).

Drum was always more of a mixup option in TangMa games after Swirlix's ban, and honestly even if Belly Drum was available I don't think people would really run it due to the loss of Return. Swirlix of course also retains the ability to run webs if it really wants, something I'm sure people would find absolutely thrilling.

Maybe if Unburden's not available then it could be manageable, but if not Swirlix still retains the tools necessary to reestablish itself as the absolute strongest sweeper LC has had bar Eeveeium Z Eevee.
 
Not sure if Dynamax is gonna be allowed, but Dynamax Farfetch'd seems pretty insane. Has the option to boost speed with Brave Bird or attack with Close Combat, and also gets Knock and PJab for all the coverage it really needs. Should still be good outside of Dynamax but I see this being the best Dynamax abuser allowed currently should it be legal.
 
Day 1 of SWSH meta being implemented:

There are three main things I would like to consider for quickbans/bans
1) Dynamax (Quickban)
Not going into much detail here, it's just z-moves on steroids.

2) Galarian-Corsola (Quickban/Ban)
This thing has easily hits 25/18/18 bulk, or 25/20/18 if needed. This is better bulk than Ferroseed, plus it has recovery in strength sap, which nullifies physical attackers not named pawniard (who lacks knock off to make matters worse), and a mono typing meaning it can't be hit 4x effectively. It can also setup on special attackers with calm mind. It also has will-o-wisp and hex. I don't really see any way in which this is balanced.

3) Galarian-Farfetch'd (Quickban/First suspect of the tier)
Galarian-Farfetch'd has a really strong attack stat, ok speed tier and strong movepool (with or without dynamax). It hits 16 speed or 20 attack, and has a movepool including STAB close combat, brave bird, knock off, leaf blade, poison jab, swords dance. It has the coverage to take down common fighting checks; even spritzee can't safely switch into it, because of the poison jab coverage.

The main thing that saves it from being outright broken is that faster mons can ohko it and it doesn't get any speed boosting moves (outside of dynamax), so the likes of galarian ponyta, gastly, scarfers, diglett can all outspeed and KO it. As such, I think this mon should be considered after removals of dynamax and g-corsola.

Otherwise there's some cool new stuff. Onix is very good, scorbunny and grookey look like fun to use, especially when their hidden abilities are released. Corphish should also be good to counter onix, and i expect chinchou to be relevant since magnemite got cut, meaning its good against corphish and onix. Sinistea looks pretty cool as well, potentially paired with gastly. Once the early meta oddities are ironed out, I think this can be a decent metagame.
 
From what I could see, Dynamax is completely Cheat. The boost in hp goes a little against the rules of the Lc and makes more difficult rk. Side effects are also real wounds (boost in attack and speed).
On the case of Galarian Farfedtch, I think it is better to wait for the dynamax ban before deciding on his case, since it is one of the pokemon who benefits the most
I think ban or not ban the dynamax should be the priority actually , before thinking about mons.
Sorry for my english , i hope i was understandable
 
Dynamax and Galarian Corsola seem like the most immediately gamebreaking things and should be looked at first imo.

After that, potentially broken stuff seems to be Cutiefly (insane role compression with webs + qd, and even without qd boosts it's at a fantastic speed tier and moonblast + psychic is great coverage), Trapinch (traps even more things than it did last gen and enables gastly really well, can also trap pawn more easily now that it lost knock and can trap g-ponyta with first impression), and maybe Galarian Farfetch'd (with dynamaxed CC and BB it's clearly busted but even without it scrappy CC + knock off + good stats might be too much for the tier).

Other than that vull is still great and ferroseed is really hard to kill with no hp fire. Onix is also terrifying, especially with dynamax since it can get spdef boosts.
 

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