Pokémon Talonflame

[The Great Gastly]

I have found Taunt to be a great option (in lieu of sub) on Bulk Up variants. Without substitute, Special Defensive investment doesn't feel worth it -- instead, I run 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spd with a Jolly Nature. The speed lets it outrun Garchomp with Taunt + Bulk Up, and after maxing Attack the rest went into HP. :]

I'm thinking of moving the Speed EVs up to 88, so it can have an easier time against Mega Pinsir (and hit a jump point), but I can't think of any scenarios where that'd be useful. :s

 

[Jaroda]

I think by default it's hard for a mega form to be the most centralizing when there is competition for that role, whereas anyone can slap a Talonflame on their team. That's not to say you shouldn't prepare for either of course.

 

[JustLetMePlay]

Technically the most centralizing mon in OU currently is Aegislash.

Which really doesn't mean anything other than that 38% of OU teams use him. It, Greninja, and Talonflame you have to have checks for, otherwise you're kinda dead.

Fortunately running a Talonflame check is simple. Unfortunately, if that check happens to get trapped by a Mega Gengar or Dugtrio, welp you're screwed.

Yeah, the presence of Mega-Gengar in the metagame has lead me to run not one, not two, but three Talonflame checks just so I can have some peace of mind. Thankfully there are a bunch of very viable OU mons that have functions other than checking Talonflame available (Rotom-W, Heatran, Tyranitar, Lando-T etc.)

 

[AOPSUser]

Yeah, the presence of Mega-Gengar in the metagame has lead me to run not one, not two, but three Talonflame checks just so I can have some peace of mind. Thankfully there are a bunch of very viable OU mons that have functions other than checking Talonflame available (Rotom-W, Heatran, Tyranitar, Lando-T etc.)

What's funny is that Mega Gengar is supposed to deal with all of them.

If you run:

-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Energy Ball
-HP Ice

and play around Tyranitar, all your counters are instantly dead. Except then Talonflame isn't sweeping any more than 2 or 3 mons, but oh well.

Also PerishTrap, haha.

Although...I don't want Mega Gengar gone. I liked using it. :(

 

[56k]

There's literally only one problem I ever have with Talonflame, and that's a double switch to rotom-w. I switch in my counter such as heatran while they switch out talonflame and go to rotom-w. The synergy between those two is amazing. Heatran, Empoleon, Tyranitar, Kabutops, Tyrantrum, Regirock, Aggron, Slowbro, Gliscor, Landorus-t. Every pokemon I can think of as a talonflame counter gets busted by the washing machine, either water weak, electric weak, or will-o-wisp burn weak. That's the benefit of double switching of course.

I've been scrolling through the list of pokemon and trying out different ideas over the past week and I haven't been all that successful. The goal, I guess, is to counter talonflame and also be able to fight rotom-w. Do any of you have ideas? Assault Vest Tyranitar certainly works but doesn't quite hit rotom very hard, so for this particular purpose I actually suggest a scarf tyrantrum to head smash bitches.

 

[Punchshroom]

There's literally only one problem I ever have with Talonflame, and that's a double switch to rotom-w. I switch in my counter such as heatran while they switch out talonflame and go to rotom-w. The synergy between those two is amazing. Heatran, Empoleon, Tyranitar, Kabutops, Tyrantrum, Regirock, Aggron, Slowbro, Gliscor, Landorus-t. Every pokemon I can think of as a talonflame counter gets busted by the washing machine, either water weak, electric weak, or will-o-wisp burn weak. That's the benefit of double switching of course.

I've been scrolling through the list of pokemon and trying out different ideas over the past week and I haven't been all that successful. The goal, I guess, is to counter talonflame and also be able to fight rotom-w. Do any of you have ideas? Assault Vest Tyranitar certainly works but doesn't quite hit rotom very hard, so for this particular purpose I actually suggest a scarf tyrantrum to head smash bitches.

Talonflame knows U-turn anyway, and can pull off a VoltTurn core with Rotom-W successfully for these reasons. Stealth Rock is imperative for being able to limit these double-switches if the core troubles you that much. That, or you can use a Rotom-W counter that has a move to hit Talonflame on the switch, like perhaps Rock Slide Trevenant or Thunder Wave Celebi.

 

[Wobblebuns]

There's literally only one problem I ever have with Talonflame, and that's a double switch to rotom-w. I switch in my counter such as heatran while they switch out talonflame and go to rotom-w. The synergy between those two is amazing. Heatran, Empoleon, Tyranitar, Kabutops, Tyrantrum, Regirock, Aggron, Slowbro, Gliscor, Landorus-t. Every pokemon I can think of as a talonflame counter gets busted by the washing machine, either water weak, electric weak, or will-o-wisp burn weak. That's the benefit of double switching of course.

I've been scrolling through the list of pokemon and trying out different ideas over the past week and I haven't been all that successful. The goal, I guess, is to counter talonflame and also be able to fight rotom-w. Do any of you have ideas? Assault Vest Tyranitar certainly works but doesn't quite hit rotom very hard, so for this particular purpose I actually suggest a scarf tyrantrum to head smash bitches.

I agree that the Talonflame+Rotom W core is really effective as they synergize well both offensively and even defensively to some extent. However, there are a few things that can be done to get around these two. Well for one, I think setting up rocks will really help as it will limit their volt-switch shenanigans. Generally, volt-turn teams don't appreciate hazards. I believe they thrive on the switches the opposing Pokemon in the team it makes due to the volt-turn team's synergy; forcing switches and whittling the opposer down in the process by constant usage of the moves. This is where they get their momentum from. Now, laying those hazards will basically discourage or limit their switching capabilities. For a team that relies mainly on constant maneuvering and switching to gain the advantage, time will take its toll and eventually whittle the volt-turn team's Pokemon down.

Apart from this, a Pokemon that can potentially do well against the core is Mega Ampharos. Electric/Dragon walls the the type coverage the core offers resisting Flying, Fire, Water and Electric. This coupled with 90/105/110 bulk can aid in checking the them. The bulky offensive pivot may be a decent asset in keeping the core at bay. A set along the lines of Volt Switch l Dragon Pulse l Thunderbolt/Focus Blast l Thunder Wave at 178 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe seems good.

Some calcs:

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 178 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 97-116 (26.57 - 31.78%) -- possible 4HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 178 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 97-116 (26.57 - 31.78%) -- possible 4HKO
56+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 178 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 72-85 (19.72 - 23.28%) -- possible 6HKO
56+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 178 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 21-25 (5.75 - 6.84%) -- 9HKO at best
56+ SpA Rotom-W Hidden Power Ice vs. 178 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 98-116 (26.84 - 31.78%) -- possible 4HKO

Quite impressive if you ask me. However, there are things to be considered that hampers Mega Ampharos's overall effectiveness. One, it might be unappealing to some that a precious slot for Mega Evolution will be given up to Mega Ampharos. Two, the Mega lacks a reliable recovery move. And three, the omnipresent stealth rocks is almost always a factor in taking into account damage inputs. With a combination of these, it is expected that Mega Ampharos will be whittled down to KO range if played recklessly. Well to remedy this, one could opt for a Rest+Talk set with Heal bell and a defensive spread or simply give the Pokemon Wish support. In the former case, its use now leans more to a walling set.

 

[ryan]

I really don't understand why so many people are still running Swords Dance and Bulk Up Talonflame so much. Don't get me wrong—they definitely aren't -bad- sets, but Choice Band Talonflame is so good that I struggle to find much reason to run anything else. To me, Choice Band Talonflame is a more effective revenge killer and late-game cleaner because it's got such great power right off the bat and doesn't rely on setting up in order to clean. Besides which, even when you're running a non-Band set, you're primarily spamming Brave Bird anyways. The only thing I really, really miss when I'm running Band is Roost, which I never really find a lot of time to use anyways.

I'm wondering what people have been running in the last slot of Band sets. Brave Bird, Flare Blitz, and U-turn are all a given, but what else do you run? It's not like you really need anything else, so it's mostly just a filler move that's never going to see use anyways. But I've seen or at least heard of people using Will-O-Wisp, Tailwind, Whirlwind, Steel Wing, and Sleep Talk. Tailwind probably sounds like the best option to me, playing a bit like Tornadus-I in BW where it can fire off a last-minute Tailwind before it dies. Still, I'm not totally sold on any one move. Thoughts?

 

[GarchompPit]

I really don't understand why so many people are still running Swords Dance and Bulk Up Talonflame so much. Don't get me wrong—they definitely aren't -bad- sets, but Choice Band Talonflame is so good that I struggle to find much reason to run anything else. To me, Choice Band Talonflame is a more effective revenge killer and late-game cleaner because it's got such great power right off the bat and doesn't rely on setting up in order to clean. Besides which, even when you're running a non-Band set, you're primarily spamming Brave Bird anyways. The only thing I really, really miss when I'm running Band is Roost, which I never really find a lot of time to use anyways.

I'm wondering what people have been running in the last slot of Band sets. Brave Bird, Flare Blitz, and U-turn are all a given, but what else do you run? It's not like you really need anything else, so it's mostly just a filler move that's never going to see use anyways. But I've seen or at least heard of people using Will-O-Wisp, Tailwind, Whirlwind, Steel Wing, and Sleep Talk. Tailwind probably sounds like the best option to me, playing a bit like Tornadus-I in BW where it can fire off a last-minute Tailwind before it dies. Still, I'm not totally sold on any one move. Thoughts?

Probably sleeptalk when you are lacking a grass type or you are not running the fire/water/grass core..But I see tailwind being viable(because you can help a slow sweeper like Heracross/Honchcrow/Krookodile) as well as Steel Wing for Carbink I guess (but not really because of the mediocre BP)...As for WoW and Whirlwind I don't know..I just find them weird on a choice banded set but that's just me...

EDIT: Now that I think about it you can run WoW so you can burn pokemon that wall you like Rotom-W,T-tar,Mega-Ampharos so you can get some residual damage on them..

 

[Vryheid]

I really don't understand why so many people are still running Swords Dance and Bulk Up Talonflame so much. Don't get me wrong—they definitely aren't -bad- sets, but Choice Band Talonflame is so good that I struggle to find much reason to run anything else.

See, that's the thing- it is good, at one thing, revenge killing. The Choice Band set does a poor job sweeping because Banded Brave Bird simply does not do enough damage to OHKO most healthy Pokemon. It's bad at wallbreaking because most bulky Pokemon can just heal right through anything Talonflame does. It's also pretty bad at support, because if your opponent predicts a locked Will-o-wisp and switches in a special attacker, or predicts a Tailwind and switches in a sub sweeper, you're going to wish you had the ability to switch moves. I'd rather have a Pokemon that's pretty good- not quite as good as the Band set, but still pretty good- at revenge killing, but also good at wallbreaking, sweeping, and supporting. That's why people use Leftovers or Life Orb instead.

 

[ryan]

The Choice Band set does a poor job sweeping because Banded Brave Bird simply does not do enough damage to OHKO most healthy Pokemon. It's bad at wallbreaking because most bulky Pokemon can just heal right through anything Talonflame does. It's also pretty bad at support, because if your opponent predicts a locked Will-o-wisp and switches in a special attacker, or predicts a Tailwind and switches in a sub sweeper, you're going to wish you had the ability to switch moves.

That's why you use it as a late-game cleaner. Later on in the game, the opponent shouldn't have a bunch of healthy Talonflame checks, making it a lot easier for it to sweep through a weakened team without the hassle of trying to find the right opportunity to set up. It just comes in and kills shit. As for being an ineffective wallbreaker, that's why you have teammates. I'm running CB Talonflame alongside Expert Belt Genesect with Giga Drain for Rotom-W, and it's such a sickening offensive core. The only thing that both Pokemon really struggle to beat is Heatran, which is pretty easy to wear down without any reliable recovery. Plus, literally everything else on my team beats defensive Heatran, so that's not really even a huge deal. As for the last part of your argument, I've been running Sleep Talk and have never actually had to use Talonflame as a sleep absorber, meaning that I've never used the last moveslot on the set. You don't really need to. And your opponent isn't going to predict you to Will-O-Wisp with a CB Talonflame and magically bring in something that doesn't care about it because you should only really use Will-O-Wisp on a predicted Tyranitar switch (which isn't uncommon). They also aren't going to predict Tailwind because you'll only end up using it one out of every 20 or so games when the timing is exactly right for it to use it. You're not going to use Tailwind unless you're in with just a little bit of HP left against something that can and will KO you.

Really, you didn't present a single good argument as to why CB is ineffective, and I can tell you from experience using all of CB, Swords Dance, and Bulk Up that it's been by far the most effective set for me.

 

[Punchshroom]

I really don't understand why so many people are still running Swords Dance and Bulk Up Talonflame so much. Don't get me wrong—they definitely aren't -bad- sets, but Choice Band Talonflame is so good that I struggle to find much reason to run anything else. To me, Choice Band Talonflame is a more effective revenge killer and late-game cleaner because it's got such great power right off the bat and doesn't rely on setting up in order to clean. Besides which, even when you're running a non-Band set, you're primarily spamming Brave Bird anyways. The only thing I really, really miss when I'm running Band is Roost, which I never really find a lot of time to use anyways.

I'm wondering what people have been running in the last slot of Band sets. Brave Bird, Flare Blitz, and U-turn are all a given, but what else do you run? It's not like you really need anything else, so it's mostly just a filler move that's never going to see use anyways. But I've seen or at least heard of people using Will-O-Wisp, Tailwind, Whirlwind, Steel Wing, and Sleep Talk. Tailwind probably sounds like the best option to me, playing a bit like Tornadus-I in BW where it can fire off a last-minute Tailwind before it dies. Still, I'm not totally sold on any one move. Thoughts?

Choice Talon is undoubtedly great, since it can chip off its counters' health with U-Turn, but it is incredibly susceptible to residual damage. Setup Talons have more survivability than they let on (important to note when their go-to move is Brave Bird), which can make them just as effective at cleaning up. The main difference between CB Talon and setup Talon is that CB usually has to kill its targets immediately; setup Talons can afford to take their time against Pokemon they can take advantage of, such as Ferrothorn, Scizor and Volcarona. Taunt is really what makes setup Talons work though, as it prevents moves such as Thunder Wave, Leech Seed, opposing Swords Dance, Toxic, Ghost-Curse and Whirlwind from Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Scizor, Gliscor, Trevenant, and Skarmory respectively, which can ruin the setup. Setup Talons do have their perks over CB Talon: SD Talon can OHKO things like Garchomp, while my favorite, BU, is protected from weaker attacks from both setup bait (Skarmory, Trevenant, Gliscor & Hippowdon with no Rock moves, hell even Mamoswine!) and priority from Lucario's Extremespeed and opposing Talon Brave Birds (and also silly Water Shuriken :P). The lack of Fire moves is unfortunate, but in my experience setup Talons can make do without Flare Blitz.

As for CB Talon's filler move, Will-o-Wisp and Tailwind are probably the most common. Will-o allows Talon to wear down switch-ins like TTar, WashTom, and especially Gliscor (lol) even more, while Tailwind allows its teammates to go AWOL on the opponent, though I don't particularly like it since this move tends to be used near death, and most opponents tend not to finish off a weakened Talonflame by themselves expecting it to kamikaze to death, which can cost the Tailwind user momentum. The filler move is highly situational really.

 

[Kejmur]

As for CB Talon's filler move, Will-o-Wisp and Tailwind are probably the most common. Will-o allows Talon to wear down switch-ins like TTar, WashTom, and especially Gliscor (lol) even more, while Tailwind allows its teammates to go AWOL on the opponent, though I don't particularly like it since this move tends to be used near death, and most opponents tend not to finish off a weakened Talonflame by themselves expecting it to kamikaze to death, which can cost the Tailwind user momentum. The filler move is highly situational really.

My favorite pick for last slot is still Aerial Ace. Taking into account that both your STAB attacks force you to take residual damage all of the time you use it, in some situations it can be really disturbing. Heck, I had moments where I would loose game, because I would die from recoil damage trying to kill 2-3 opponents Pokemon in a row. While AA base power is dissapointing, with CB behind it, it's enough to finish SE targets and those frailer ones. There's one bad problem with it that something nasty may set-up on it, but you may just throw something in as death fodder and let your Talonflame revenge kill it after (or something else on your team). Tailwind and WoW are still great options for last slot, I think having one no-recoil move outside of U-Turn can be useful. Situational ? Sure. Worth it ? I think in those rare situations it is taking into account that you won't this last slot pretty much at all unless really specific situation come in. It's filler slot for Talonflame anyway.

 

[Olly]

See, that's the thing- it is good, at one thing, revenge killing. The Choice Band set does a poor job sweeping because Banded Brave Bird simply does not do enough damage to OHKO most healthy Pokemon. It's bad at wallbreaking because most bulky Pokemon can just heal right through anything Talonflame does. It's also pretty bad at support, because if your opponent predicts a locked Will-o-wisp and switches in a special attacker, or predicts a Tailwind and switches in a sub sweeper, you're going to wish you had the ability to switch moves. I'd rather have a Pokemon that's pretty good- not quite as good as the Band set, but still pretty good- at revenge killing, but also good at wallbreaking, sweeping, and supporting. That's why people use Leftovers or Life Orb instead.

You never lock yourself into the last move ever pretty much. You might as well only have 3 moves. Whatever move people are using, I imagine they will all agree that they hardly ever use it. I personally have never used my 4th move, it might as well be blank.

Any frail Pokemon are OHKO'd. Anything that's taken some prior damage is probably in KO range. In this sense it can act as the ultimate check to pretty much anything that doesn't resist Brave Bird.

To give you an idea of its power:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 148-175 (95.4 - 112.9%)

What I think is best about the Choice Band set is it can wear down it's counters to the point they can't actually counter Talonflame anymore with U-Turn early game. Obviously you have to keep Stealth Rock off the field, but if you do it's just a complete monster, it's imo the best late game cleaner around, because you just click Brave Bird and win.

 

[Nubbins]

Here are the calcs that sold me on CB:

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 325-384 (113.6 - 134.2%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 270-318 (103 - 121.3%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Genesect: 246-289 (86.6 - 101.7%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 283-334 (108 - 127.4%)

Being able to secure the KOs on such dangerous pokemon is a really big deal. It sadly misses out on a guaranteed KO on genesect even after rocks but talonflame has a 4x resistance to u-turn and being locked into a nonSTAB thunderbolt is easy setup bait.

CB is smart because the majority of the times the only attacks you use are brave bird and u-turn. And the meta is so talonflame -oriented that by the time you clear out all the flying/fire resists and SD up, you might as well just sweep with CB.

I don't even run rapid spin or defog on my team and CB talonflame still puts in work. Even with rocks shaving off 50%, talonflame can revenge kill any dangerous sweeper besides pokes like zygarde, tyranitar, and ES users. It's a fallback that most other teams would kill to have.

 

[RockStarFish]

I don't even run rapid spin or defog on my team and CB talonflame still puts in work. Even with rocks shaving off 50%, talonflame can revenge kill any dangerous sweeper besides pokes like zygarde, tyranitar, and ES users. It's a fallback that most other teams would kill to have.

Even then, CB U-turn still does a sizable amount of damage against Tyranitar;

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 170-200 (42 - 49.5%)

If rocks are on the field, U-turning out of Tyranitar keeps you safe from the turn of sandstorm damage, which is a critical difference between Talonflame getting to switch in twice through SR, and getting to switch in thrice.

 

[Mjolnir128]

Idk. Sounds cool but talonflame has like no bulk whatsoever. outside hitting shit with brave bird it's very one dimensional and usually needs max atk adamant to do any damage at all.

I tried playing around with bulky spreads and the power was very underwhelming and didn't accomplish anything the standard sd one couldn't. Still wrecked by rotom, ttar etc. Even with willowisp

No bulk, true, but it's in how you use him. This set can stall out physical attackers extremely well. Goes down very easily to special attackers, particularly the ultimate bane of Talonflame, Rotom-W, but I've played this set on Showdown and sponged Rock Slides and Stone Edges before. Just keep him away from Stone Edges from really strong things, and he does wonderfully against 2x SE physical moves against STAB-using physical attackers once it can get a burn. With the natural speed, it even makes a great lead; Taunt the slow leads that usually come in, they'll switch out, and either your opponent brings in a physical attacker than can do damage or a special one; either way, you can usually get a free burn in, and switch out. It's a lot of fun to use on Stall-oriented teams, which are my favorite.

It's typing also has fantastic dynamics with Ferrothorn.

 

[meteor64]

I'm wondering what people have been running in the last slot of Band sets. Brave Bird, Flare Blitz, and U-turn are all a given, but what else do you run? It's not like you really need anything else, so it's mostly just a filler move that's never going to see use anyways. But I've seen or at least heard of people using Will-O-Wisp, Tailwind, Whirlwind, Steel Wing, and Sleep Talk. Tailwind probably sounds like the best option to me, playing a bit like Tornadus-I in BW where it can fire off a last-minute Tailwind before it dies. Still, I'm not totally sold on any one move. Thoughts?

I've actually gone outside the box a bit and have been using Me First. Probably not as useful as Will-o-Wisp, but Ice Fanging a Gliscor and Dragon Tailing a Goodra have been priceless. Probably not as good on a Band set as it would be on others though.

 

[ryan]

That's actually pretty neat. I might give it a try. At worst, it should get me some hard-earned lols.

 

[thunderant]

I like when people switch there counters in my talonflame while i SD that turn and u-turn out to do some damage (mainly to ttar) . That is what I like to do but it is riskly when stealth rock is up though.

btw hi everyone i am new here

 

[Ryan Reed]

There's literally only one problem I ever have with Talonflame, and that's a double switch to rotom-w. I switch in my counter such as heatran while they switch out talonflame and go to rotom-w. The synergy between those two is amazing. Heatran, Empoleon, Tyranitar, Kabutops, Tyrantrum, Regirock, Aggron, Slowbro, Gliscor, Landorus-t. Every pokemon I can think of as a talonflame counter gets busted by the washing machine, either water weak, electric weak, or will-o-wisp burn weak. That's the benefit of double switching of course.

I've been scrolling through the list of pokemon and trying out different ideas over the past week and I haven't been all that successful. The goal, I guess, is to counter talonflame and also quite hit rotom very hard, so for this particular purpose I actually suggest a scarf tyrantrum to head smash bitches.

Dry Skin Heliolisk. Fast as hell, especially scarfed, immune to water, doesn't give two fucks about either burn or electric moves, volt switches, and hits hard with it too. He can annihilate both of them granted you bring him in at the right moment. He's mostly good to counter Rotom-W though. Heliolisk is pretty solid poke and imo one of the best counters to this combo, I'm surprised no one's noticed him yet.

 

[Stallion]

Dry Skin Heliolisk. Fast as hell, especially scarfed, immune to water, doesn't give two fucks about either burn or electric moves, volt switches, and hits hard with it too. He can annihilate both of them granted you bring him in at the right moment. He's mostly good to counter Rotom-W though. Heliolisk is pretty solid poke and imo one of the best counters to this combo, I'm surprised no one's noticed him yet.

Because Talonflame would one shot him with a Fire Move. Mega-Amph is the best bet

 

[GeneralMLD]

Hmm, considering using WillOwisp instead of roost, given the leftovers factor I currently give my talonflame.

Can anyone care to explain the strategic pros and cons of this? Because Talonflames aren't really meant for their longevity in battles anyway.

 

[Pyritie]

Dry Skin Heliolisk. Fast as hell, especially scarfed, immune to water, doesn't give two fucks about either burn or electric moves, volt switches, and hits hard with it too. He can annihilate both of them granted you bring him in at the right moment. He's mostly good to counter Rotom-W though. Heliolisk is pretty solid poke and imo one of the best counters to this combo, I'm surprised no one's noticed him yet.

Lanturn beats both and can absorb rotom-w's volt switch, nullifying it and getting free healing. Both its STABs beat talonflame and rotom-w can't really do anything to it besides burn it (and I run substitute on my lanturn)

 

[noobcubed]

I like when people switch there counters in my talonflame while i SD that turn and u-turn out to do some damage (mainly to ttar) . That is what I like to do but it is riskly when stealth rock is up though.

btw hi everyone i am new here

You are better just U-turning immediately, since that way the Pokemon that comes in doesn't have to take a hit first. Also switching out a Pokemon immediately after boosting is a big waste.

Welcome to Smogon by the way.