There's actually 2 more counters now, since Azumarill also resists both its STABs and can kill it with Aqua Jet. Azumarill will also see more use now that BD+AJ is now legal and the Drought nerf means that Flare Blitzes won't hit quite as hard.Resisting both STABs and being able to threaten with priority Brave Bird make Talonflame an awesome Blaziken check. Just have to watch out for Stone Edge (if Blaziken carries it)
Still, doubt the existence of one check would make Blaziken any less Uber.
The same EVs as for Swords Dance set. With enough Speed EVs to outspeed base 100. I don't think he needs more, as you'll be using Brave Bird in 80% of cases. And he needs as much power as possible, so it's better to stick with Adamant.Whats the EV Spread on this build?
So a 132 EV investment into an Adamant Talonflame will let it outspeed base 100's?The same EVs as for Swords Dance set. With enough Speed EVs to outspeed base 100. I don't think he needs more, as you'll be using Brave Bird in 80% of cases. And he needs as much power as possible, so it's better to stick with Adamant.
Ok, I see. How viable is a more bulky set, sayYou need 164 speed EVs to outpace base 100s with a speed nature. 132 was for when Talonflame's base speed was estimated to be 130.
I would say it's perfectly viable. I would, however, add enough speed to outrun jolly Excadrill at least so you can hit it with flare blitz. That requires 60 speed EVs. I'm not really sure if there's any other mons you really need to outspeed right now... are people even using max+ Jirachi right now outside of scarf sets? I feel like 329 speed isn't even necessary for Talonflame in the current metagame. But I might be forgetting some things in between so I'm not sure what the optimal EV spread is right now.Ok, I see. How viable is a more bulky set, say
Talonflame @ Leftovers
Gale Wings
Adamant 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def, SpD, or Spe
-Bulk-Up / Swords Dance
-Roost
-Flare Blitz
-Brave Bird
?
Scarf T-tar?For a physical pokemon, having priority and being immune to burns is nice. We've had a lot of fire types over the past generations but not too many physical ones. Talonflame has a unique niche being the fastest fire type with access to a priority move. This will give it a unique niche in the new meta. However he needs to find a way of getting past heatran and and Scarf T-tar, or he may drop to UU.
Max Adamant Speed is enough to outspeed all positive 110 base Pokemon (at level 100, at 50 he speed ties). If you ask me - overkill. 60 Speed is enough to outspeed max speed Jolly Excadrill and IMO this is enough - I don't see that many Jirachi around, but if you want to be safe go with 164 Speed EVs to outspeed Positive 100 base.Is Adamant, 252 Spe overkill on speed? I can't seem to decide how much speed is enough or too much. :s
So basically, tailor your speed EVs to the fastest thing you'd rather use Flare Blitz against? (in your example, Excadrill)Max Adamant Speed is enough to outspeed all positive 110 base Pokemon (at level 100, at 50 he speed ties). If you ask me - overkill. 60 Speed is enough to outspeed max speed Jolly Excadrill and IMO this is enough - I don't see that many Jirachi around, but if you want to be safe go with 164 Speed EVs to outspeed Positive 100 base.
Yep, exactly. Just look for a target which you can't KO right away with Brave Bird, but with Flare Blitz and work on it. I wouldn't recommend it (because it is a speed creep), but you may invest 168 Speed EVs to outspeed 164 Speed versions. This way you'll avoid speed creep, lol, because in 90% of cases this is speed benchmark everyone will aim for with Talonflame (or the one for Excadrill).So basically, tailor your speed EVs to the fastest thing you'd rather use Flare Blitz against? (in your example, Excadrill)
Sounds a lot better than max speed, hopefully Talonflame doesn't speed creep itself. o_O
Just be cautious of Mega Absol as they are most likely running max speed and WILL out-prioritize Brave Bird vs Sucker Punch.Max Adamant Speed is enough to outspeed all positive 110 base Pokemon (at level 100, at 50 he speed ties). If you ask me - overkill. 60 Speed is enough to outspeed max speed Jolly Excadrill and IMO this is enough - I don't see that many Jirachi around, but if you want to be safe go with 164 Speed EVs to outspeed Positive 100 base.
+2 252+ Atk Sky Plate (custom) (Move 1) vs. 24 HP / 0 Def (custom): 167-197 (57.38 - 67.69%) -- guaranteed 2HKOBarbaracle is also a good bet against Talonflame, forcing his switch and setting up a Shell Smash meanwhile and doing heavy damage to bulky grounds whit a Razor Shell. Not exactly useless outside of Talonflame, most people claim it as the new best Shell Smasher.
I've been using Max HP Rotom-W, which easily take any hit it can dish out and KO back with Hydro Pump or Thunderbolt. Rotom-H should work in the same way, but in this case you better keep SR off the field (ok, you can safely switch in once even with SR as long as you invested 252 EVs in HP). Tyranitar of course works the same, but dislike taking U-Turns all day long. Tyrantrum should also work for this. Also someone mentioned Lanturn, and it works. Rhyperior is ok as well, as there is nothing Talonflame can do to you and if you use Choice Band on him - it gives you free hit on switch, which is scary coming from Pokemon with such high attack. If you use Heatran with HP Rock/AncientPower - he also counters Talonflame pretty well.What have you all been using as a check for Talonflame? He's one of the most problematic pokemon for me to deal with.