Pokémon Talonflame

[Kejmur]

This thing will be a staple on those starmie hyper offense teams. Being able to revenge kill with priority brave bird is too much to be ignored. At first I thought it would be rarely used due to it's huge weakness to stealth rock, but when facing and using this, I realized that this pokemon is definetely a top tier threat. Being able to stop hyper offense team's sweeps cold is what makes this bird especially amazing.

Well remember that it may always run Steel Wing - pretty weak, I agree, but late game, when you play/bait what you want (for example SubGengar with Focus Blast even if it dies in process should weaken Tyranitar to the point where you should enough damage). Of course Tailwind/Roost/WoW are all better options, but if suddenly stuff like Rhyperior or Tyrantrum starts to be more common, this is a viable option as well. Well this is another proof how great ability can make up for even weak base stats (Sableye, now Talonflame, etc.). I'm impressed with this bird ;).

Anyone tried Choice Band ? If someone did, is it worth it with good Defog/Rapid Spin/Magic Bounce support ? As for example with CB Brave Bird you 100% secure kill on Full HP MegaLucario while you fail to do it with Life Orb. It's something I wanted to try.

I don't know a surefire counter (I say this because it gets U-Turn and Wil-o-Wisp to help itself) for this thing, but I do feel like its going to be an upper level threat once the meta settles.

Defensive Omastar is close to being total hard counter. x4 Resist Fire, takes neutral damage from Steel Wing, totally don't care about burn (one of those extremely rare Rock types) and may just KO back with STAB Ancientpower or Hydro Pump back. Well it has access to Stealth Rock/Spikes, so it may have some use outside of countering Talonflame. Although outside of Rain teams (as without Rain he's outclassed by Cloyster/Barbaracle for Shell Smashing)... I see problem finding niche for this guy. Like... what else he can actually counter/check in OU, so he actually has more use than just Talonflame.

Magcargo is the same and it's even immune to burn and resist Bug, but... his typing is even worse, although he has some nifty resistances (x4 Fire, x2 Bug, x2 Flying, x2 Poison, x2 Fairy, x2 Normal), although those weaknesses just straight up suck. Although it learns Recover and Stealth Rock, so he can actually switch in more than once and set-up SR more than once (for Defog). I heard about some people using this guy with ok success in OU so who knows...

Yeah, I wouldn't really recommend those (although I hate people which assume something must suck because it's from lower tier even more, this time may be more viable, who knows), but I think those two are the closest things to total counters (and this is what you asked for). They don't care or are immune to Burn, can KO it back with STAB Rock attacks on special side (so they ignore Bulk Up as well), are tanky enough to handle anything Talonflame can throw on them.

 

[Vryheid]

Defog is a huge help to this guy and probably why more people use him now than when we first saw the Pokemon. It's not hard to pull off the move and get rid of rocks on something relatively bulky like Scizor and can easily lead to a sweep later on.

I still think it's a crying shame that U-turn was basically brushed off as an option in the article written for Talonflame. Maintaining momentum is still incredibly important in this metagame and being able to switch out of something dangerous like Tyranitar can be a huge help.

 

[TheDuckChris]

This thing is such a threat, and I keep putting it back on my teams just because of the delicious 5-0 sweeps it can get against unprepared teams. Tailwind is such a boost to his set as well, even if theres a couple pokes left alive Talonflame can keep up the offensive pressure. Talk about a momentum boost.

 

[Ben walker]

I use a bulk up set with bulk up, roost, brave bird and flare blitz (ability: gale wings). Bulk up is used to boost attack even further and give it some more survivability, this allows it to be more safe when using roost, the attacking moves are obviously it's most powerful stab moves however it is unfortunate that they don't have the best coverage. I predict this bird to be a top uu threat. I use 100 hp ev's, 200 atk ev's and 210 spd ev's with leftovers

 

[Garagara]

For me at least, Talonflame is easily the scariest threat this generation. Whenever I make a team now, I need a resist for this guy. And there aren't many options. I hate that you have to take a hit for this guy, as with his high power priority attacks coupled with already high speed means even if you have priority, TF's gonna go first. I usually rely on priority attacks for revenge killing, be it scizor, breloom, azumarill, mamo, etc. Talonflame puts a massive dent or straight up ohko's these mons with its faster priority. Even stealth rock only helps so much. I'm thinking of bringing out rhyperior, but it can't get stealth rock yet, which is too bad. GF needs to step up their game concerning rock types, there are very few good ones. Although tyrantrum looks to be a straight up counter

 

[Jexulus]

Interesting that Talonflame has potential as an offensive Pokemon. I've been using him as more of a support Pokemon myself.

Talonflame (M) @ Flying Gem
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Tailwind
- Taunt
- Roost
This is a surprisingly excellent lead; since its faster than a majority of common leads, it can do almost whatever it wants. If a slower hazard setter like Forretress leads on the opponent side, Taunt shuts him down. In fact, Talonflame can Taunt everything, due to outspeeding everything bar Jolteon. If the lead is offensive but frail, priority Acrobatics can defeat most that don't resist unless they run Focus Sash. I run Tailwind because I'm running a Tailwind team, but Tailwind and Roost can be replaced by momentum thieves like U-Turn. This set has worked wonders for me, keeping stealth rocks off the field long enough for me to set up and go to town.

 

[Tesung]

I use choice band with uturn, brave bird, flare blitz, and tailwind or steel wing. It's really, really good because everyone expects me to set up, so they leave their skarmory in to whirlwind, and then it takes 84% from a flare blitz. It is also so good at revenging huggggeee threats like volcarona, mega lucario, etc. I actually put in on a semi stall team just to check threats. Also, one of the coolest things is that it checks almost all of the op megas, I'm looking right at you blaziken, but also gengar, alakazam, lucario, pinsir, medicham, charizard, etc. when I build teams, this, along with mega blaziken, mega lucario, aegislash (only because everyone has one), mega gengar, and genesect are the thing I always must have a check for. (Rock type, sand excadrill, or rotom w on every team lol)

 

[Kietharr]

Talonflame is amazing, as we all know, so I think it's time to talk a bit about what synergizes with it. One option I've had a lot of success with is Mega Blastoise. Now that Aegislash (and soon Trevanent, as people actually start using him) really give Starmie a hard time as a spinner, I think it's totally reasonable to use your mega on what is now the best spinner in the game, Megastoise.

Megastoise gets Mega Launcher, which boosts Dark Pulse to the equivalent of 120BP, off of his 135 SpA, that will threaten OHKO pretty much any of the common suspects when it comes to spinblocking after rocks. With 79/120/115 defenses, which are none to shabby, he can also switch in to most any spin blocker. Access to a boosted Aura Sphere also lets him take care of any Tyranitar dumb enough to stay in on him, and of course he has STAB hydro pump/water pulse to deal with most other typical rock types (I'd argue for water pulse on a conventional set for reliability, also has a confusion chance which leads to increased rage quits). At 78 speed he's no Usain Bolt, but he outspeeds Tyranitar, alongside all of the OU rock types that resist Talonflame's staple flying type moves. A basic set of Rapid Spin/Dark Pulse/Aura Sphere/Water Pulse would probably be ideal.

 

[Koenium]

Defensive Omastar is close to being total hard counter. x4 Resist Fire, takes neutral damage from Steel Wing, totally don't care about burn (one of those extremely rare Rock types) and may just KO back with STAB Ancientpower or Hydro Pump back. Well it has access to Stealth Rock/Spikes, so it may have some use outside of countering Talonflame. Although outside of Rain teams (as without Rain he's outclassed by Cloyster/Barbaracle for Shell Smashing)... I see problem finding niche for this guy. Like... what else he can actually counter/check in OU, so he actually has more use than just Talonflame.

I've been using a Core of Defensive Omastar and Lumrest Trevenant and I must say it is quite an impressive duo synergetically, the biggest problem is Omastars lack of recovery, but I find that I can gain significant amounts of HP out of lefties if I play it well.

Notable detail; with a couple Speed EVs both of them cán surprisingly, but crucially, beat "standard" Aegi and Tyranitar 1-1, Omastar sadly depending on a Scald burn in 2 tries with Aegi, and Trevenant risking looking rather silly getting OHKOd by faster Tyranitar variants~

Edit: Sorry I just realised this thread is about Talonflame, not Cores including it's counters, should I delete?

 

[Flipflop]

So would the best nature for Talonflame be Adamant? I don't really see any use for Jolly's extra speed when Talonflame has priority Brave Bird.

 

[Shiruba]

So would the best nature for Talonflame be Adamant? I don't really see any use for Jolly's the extra speed when Talonflame has priority Brave Bird.

Well, I'd expect that the speed is for things that you can't Brave Bird or hit with Acrobatics that has a chance of outspeeding you if you have little speed, like Mega Lucario.
That said, nothing really comes to mind that makes Jolly necessary, rather just to pump some speed EVs in it.

 

[TheEvergreenChameleon]

Well, I'd expect that the speed is for things that you can't Brave Bird or hit with Acrobatics that has a chance of outspeeding you if you have little speed, like Mega Lucario.
That said, nothing really comes to mind that makes Jolly necessary, rather just to pump some speed EVs in it.

If Mega Luc uses Extremespeed, it still wins due to Extremespeed's +2 priority.

 

[Shroomisaur]

It sure is funny how underrated Talonflame was at first. Everyone looked at those mediocre offenses and wrote him off as another UU Bird... Well, after playing on Showdown and encountering him on 7 teams in a row, I think it's safe to say that everyone has taken notice of Talonflame as a major threat. I've seriously seen more of this than Aegislash or Greninja, the two other biggest OU hopefuls that had everyone talking. It's vital to have one if not two solid counters or Talonflame will walk all over you, a priority 180 BP move is just insane.

Aside from the Rock-types mentioned earlier, Bulky Intimidate users like Landorus-T or Gyarados are decent switches as they take a +1 hit and can KO in return, and physically bulky Rotom-W is a great switch-in as well as it resists both attacks.

 

[Slheyas]

Talonflame would probably be a great baton pass recipient.

Basically the only time in which you can switch into the damn thing safely is when it sets up. Otherwise you can see yourself taking at least 50% damage unless your name is 252HP T-Tar (0/0 TTar is a clean 2hko from a +2 Talonflame with Sky Plate). By Baton Passing the boost you can throw Talonflame already boosted against something that isn't ready for it, and then getting rid of it is gonna be hard.

Losing at least one pokemon is almost a certainty.

 

[radica]

It's a little silly how many games you can win with just starter Talonflame if the enemy team has a very obvious starters like Kefki or Forretress. Allowing Talon to acquire a free Swords Dance and then attempt to cause as much damage with Acrobatics. The Flying Gem really is imperative as they always switch into a 0.5x Pokemon and it gives Talon the ability to two hit KO. The priority +1 allows it to spend maximum points in HP allowing it to survive STAB Volt Switch from Rotom-W and trump paralyze is fantastic. Let's not even forget about +1 Roost. Speed investment isn't that useful due to speed of most Steels being slower than base.

Afterwards it leaves so many holes in your enemy team that you can just overcome them easily.

 

[Slheyas]

It's a little silly how many games you can win with just starter Talonflame if the enemy team has a very obvious starters like Kefki or Forretress. Allowing Talon to acquire a free Swords Dance and then attempt to cause as much damage with Acrobatics. The Flying Gem really is imperative as they always switch into a 0.5x Pokemon and it gives Talon the ability to two hit KO. The priority +1 allows it to spend maximum points in HP allowing it to survive STAB Volt Switch from Rotom-W and trump paralyze is fantastic. Let's not even forget about +1 Roost. Speed investment isn't that useful due to speed of most Steels being slower than base.

Afterwards it leaves so many holes in your enemy team that you can just overcome them easily.

The best thing about Volt-Switch rotom is that if you see it coming you can use Roost and actually force him to switch to.. something inadequate while your Talonflame is still good to go.

 

[radica]

The best thing about Volt-Switch rotom is that if you see it coming you can use Roost and actually force him to switch to.. something inadequate while your Talonflame is still good to go.

Actually you can't due to Priority Roost.

 

[Slheyas]

Actually you can't due to Priority Roost.

Actually you're right.

But Priority Roost gets you around 64% HP after Volt Switch.

And you kinda want to roost in it, otherwise you'll be left at 23% or so HP left, which is risky because of your recoils.

Btw, Rotom-W doesn't OHKO with Volt Switch even at Modest 252Sp.A VS a 0/0 Talonflame. Unless it carries Life Orb / Specs (doubtful)

It's 88% at best.

252HP Talonflame takes 72% at most.

Also :

56+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 288-338 (80 - 93.88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252HP Talon can freaking Take a Hydro Pump because of the nerf.

252EV in Sp.A can't even secure the OHKO, only gets it as high as 63%. Means Talonflame is gonna get killed by recoil though!

 

[Kejmur]

Tested Choice Band Talonflame and I love it. I use it with Defog Gliscor and Rapid Spin MegaBlastoise and I have yet to find a moment where I must switch on Stealth Rock, as keeping rocks away is not a problem. The amount of times it swept or saved my butt from certain sweepers finishing game was awesome. With Adamant Nature + Choice Band Talonflame hits surprisingly hard. I'm also surprised how not many teams carry really good Flying resist. And if they do - Flare Blitz fixes this problem. I use Brave Bird/Flare Blitz/U-Turn/Aerial Ace. CB U-Turn wears Tyranitars pretty well, so you don't really need Steel Wing. Sure, you may run it, but IMO it's not worth it. While Aerial Ace may sound strange, it has specific use - for example I had a moment where I had low HP Talonflame against 2 opponents with low hp as well. If I used Brave Bird - I would loose it, because of recoil. With Aerial Ace it wasn't a problem. And let's face it - last slot is honestly a filler. I'll try Tailwind on last slot though (and WoW) and see how it works.

Also it's a decent lead - U-Turn against something you can't handle, Brave Bird it to death if you feel you can or Flare Blitz.

 

[Thorhammer]

Seems Rotom-A does minimum 117% to Talonflame with Thunderbolt, even with a Timid nature and no item boost. This indicates that whatever Rotom-W can do against Talonflame, Rotom-H can do as well, if it's ever a more suitable option.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

It's a little silly how many games you can win with just starter Talonflame if the enemy team has a very obvious starters like Kefki or Forretress. Allowing Talon to acquire a free Swords Dance and then attempt to cause as much damage with Acrobatics.

...Couldn't Klefki simply paralyze Talonflame? Flying Gem hasn't been found yet, I can't believe a Steel-type can't survive a Brave Bird from a 80 Base Attack pokémon.

 

[Annabeth]

Will-o-Wisp is very interesting as the 4th move.
Having a fast user of Will-o-Wisp will really be interesting with Sucker Punch users around such as Mega-Mawile and Mega-Kang.

 

[Punchshroom]

Priority Brave Bird and Roost are both already fine options to counteract Sucker Punch. This issue is mitigated even further if Talonflame has Bulk Up.

 

[Annabeth]

Priority Brave Bird and Roost are both already fine options to counteract Sucker Punch. This issue is mitigated even further if Talonflame has Bulk Up.

Against Mega-Mawile, without Will-o-Wisp it is often a "heads or tails" game... However, that's true it isn't that useful.

 

[mAn-kAt]

Tested Choice Band Talonflame and I love it. I use it with Defog Gliscor and Rapid Spin MegaBlastoise and I have yet to find a moment where I must switch on Stealth Rock, as keeping rocks away is not a problem. The amount of times it swept or saved my butt from certain sweepers finishing game was awesome. With Adamant Nature + Choice Band Talonflame hits surprisingly hard. I'm also surprised how not many teams carry really good Flying resist. And if they do - Flare Blitz fixes this problem. I use Brave Bird/Flare Blitz/U-Turn/Aerial Ace. CB U-Turn wears Tyranitars pretty well, so you don't really need Steel Wing. Sure, you may run it, but IMO it's not worth it. While Aerial Ace may sound strange, it has specific use - for example I had a moment where I had low HP Talonflame against 2 opponents with low hp as well. If I used Brave Bird - I would loose it, because of recoil. With Aerial Ace it wasn't a problem. And let's face it - last slot is honestly a filler. I'll try Tailwind on last slot though (and WoW) and see how it works.

Also it's a decent lead - U-Turn against something you can't handle, Brave Bird it to death if you feel you can or Flare Blitz.

Whats the EV Spread on this build?