Pokémon Tangrowth

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Type: Grass
Abilities - Chlorophyll: Doubles speed in sun
Leaf Guard - Prevents status effects in sun
Regenerator (Hidden ability) - Heals 1/3 of HP upon switching out

Base Stats

HP: 100
Atk: 100
Def: 125
SpAtk: 110
SpDef: 50
Spe: 50

Like many other Pokemon, Tangrowth received a couple of new toys in Generation 6. Knock Off's boost to 65 BP makes the move much more viable on a pokemon that was already known for running the move back when it was merely 20 BP. Sleep Powder no longer affects other grass types, making Tangrowth an even better Breloom counter than it used to be, and allowing it many more switch in opportunities. It still has regenerator, which is probably the best ability (along with magic guard) that a defensive pokemon could hope for. Add these things to it's natural physical bulk, and Tangrowth could certainly see more usage in Gen 6.

However, things are not all peachy for our viney green friend. Tangrowth still has abysmal special defense, and even neutral special attacks will take large chunks out of its HP total. Also, sleep mechanics have change again; sleep no longer resets on a switch, but still only lasts 1-3 turns, making sleep powder less effective than in Gen 5. With mixed sweepers such as Greninja arriving in Gen 6, Tangrowth finds its job harder than ever sometimes. However, play to its strengths and give it some support, and Mojonbo is ready to rule here all over again.

Knock It Off, Mojonbo Rules Here! (Physical Tank)

252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpAtk
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Nature: Relaxed

- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Earthquake / Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Earthquake

A throwback to Gen 4, Mojonbo can tank hits and chip away at its counters. It's good mixed stats allow it to do a variety of things, including mixed attacking coverage. Tangrowth takes about 44.91 - 53.1% from a Choice Band Garchomp's Outrage, allowing it to comfortably switch out into an appropriate counter while regenerating most of it's health back. It's a reliable switch into SD aegislash, only taking 26.9 - 31.9% from shadow sneak and playing mind games between sleep powder and earthquake. Whenever discussing a defensive grass type, one must inevitably compare it to Ferrothorn, whose typing allows it many more switch ins. However, Tangrowth is capable of many different things (besides the obvious regenerator). Where ferrothorn is typically a team supporter, Tangrowth's strength lies in forcing switches while maintaining some offensive momentum. Giga Drain is its main STAB move, doing solid damage to anything that doesn't resist it and returning health back simultaneously. With the Knock Off's buff to 65 BP, it has gone from a niche move to a completely viable move. Either after something is asleep or on a predicted switch, it's an easily spammable move to cripple whatever decides to come in on tangrowth, possibly ridding Dragonite of its Lum Berry or even Scizor of its Choice Band, crippling it for the rest of the match. Knock Off also allows Tangrowth to check the increasingly popular Ghost types, hitting them super effectively and ridding them of their item at the same time.

The second set of moves really depend on what you want Tangrowth to check. Earthquake can be nasty against the Fire and Steel types that want to switch into Tangrowth, and has solid coverage overall. HP Ice is for the dragons that love to switch into Tangrowth, easily 2HKOing Dragonite even after multiscale. HP Fire smacks Scizor and Ferrothorn, which can use Tangrowth to lay hazards down with the change to sleep powder. Both hidden powers are super effective against grass, so choosing one depends on what you feel threatens your team more.

Relaxed is the preferred nature, as Tangrowth isn't outspeeding anything anyway and needs both attacking stats. However, 124 EVs with a neutral speed nature allow Tangrowth to outspeed 4 Spe Scizor, allowing you to nail it with HP Fire before your opponent realizes what happened. Putting EVs from Def to either attacking stat can help with some extra power, but be warned that Tangrowth needs all the help it can get as Grass isn't the best defensive type on its own. Focus Blast is Tangrowth's best option against Kyurem-B and Ferrothorn in rain, but its shaky accuracy makes it a difficult choice. Leaf Storm is Tangrowth's strongest attack, but renders its special attacks useless afterward. Toxic is always an option on a defensive pokemon, but Tangrowth has more unique things to be doing with its moveslots. Protect and Substitute are always an option with leech seed, but there are pokemon that simply do this better than Tangrowth.

Assualt Vest Pivot

252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 SpAtk
Item: Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Nature: Relaxed (+Def -Spe)

- Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Rock Slide

Assault Vest is an interesting new item that boosts the wearer's SpDef by 50%, but only allows it to use attacking moves. Normally, lack of passive recovery would be a massive problem for a tank, but luckily for tangrowth, regenerator can be all it needs. Assault Vest with the maxed EVs and nature allow Tangrowth to hit 298 SpDef, which essentially gives it fully invested base 100 SpDef. This may not sound like a ton, but Tangrowth has a lot of health to tank those hits with, and still has 314 Def with 0 investment and a positive nature. However, this set does not play like a wall, but instead plays like a hit and run attacker. You switch in tangrowth, tank the hit, and pick whatever you think will be super effective against the switch, and switch out as you recover health. This set is not meant to take repeated hits, but instead uses tangrowth's decent attacking stats and regenerator to try and chip away at your opponent's health without losing any yourself. Most opponents won't expect this set, so capitalizing on the first few opportunities is paramount.

Earthquake is Tangrowth's most powerful physical move and takes care of many important Pokemon, some of which Tangrowth is suppsoed to counter and some of which like to switch into it, such as Excadrill, Heatran, Mega Char X, Lucario, and Aegislash. On the last slot, all three moves are viable choices, although it can be detrimental having three physical moves on Tangrowth, as it oftens ends up getting burnt by water-types. Hidden Power Ice covers Garchomp, Zygarde, Landorus-T, Landorus, Dragonite, and Gliscor, all Pokemon that Tangrowth can check or wall, while Hidden Power Fire covers Ferrothorn, Scizor, Genesect, Forretress, Skarmory, and both Hidden Power 2HKO Breloom. Lastly, Rock Slide takes care of Volcarona, Talonflame, Thundurus, Thundurus-T, regular Gyarados, regular Charizard and Mega Charizard Y, and deals respectable damage to Togekiss.

Other Options

Infestation can be used, but most things that tangrowth wants to trap aren't staying in anyway, making it generally inferior to leech seed. Rock Slide destroys Talonflame, doing 90.8 - 107.2% to the standard 80 HP set. Bulldoze is gimmicky, but can set up a teammate to come in if used properly, although Tangrowth won't be outspeeding much itself even with an opponent at -1. Tangrowth gets chlorophyll and growth, but still isn't very fast and is outsped by most common scarfers even with the boosts. A double powder set with sleep powder and stun spore is usable, but struggles for coverage offensively. Tangrowth can set reflect, but usually prefers to put things to sleep in a support role.

Checks and Counters

Venusaur is the number one counter, especially Mega Venusaur; it can take anything Tangrowth wants to do and destroy it with sludge bomb. Tangrowth doesn't have great special defense, and powerful super effective attacks will down it quickly. Because most Tangrowth will run knock off, any pokemon with a mega stone makes a good switch in. If (mega stone) lucario with justified predicts knock off, it can come in and nab a boost, with Close Combat dealing 71.2 - 84.1%, meaning Tangrowth must be at full health to deal with it. Grass pokemon and overcoat users are immune to sleep, making pokemon like Mandibuzz safe switch ins, although grass types must watch out for sludge bomb. Unless tangrowth runs rock slide, talonflame is safe switch, and retaliates with dual STABS of 48 - 56.9% and 71.7 - 85.1% (choice band) in flare blitz and brave bird. Everything switching in must be aware of knock off, as things like the aforementioned talonflame hate losing their choice band. Sap Sipper Goodra gets a special mention, gaining a boost from tangrowth's STAB and walling anything it wants to do. Tangrowth is vulernable to all entry hazards, and getting them up shortens his lifespan and limits regenerators usefulness.

*Major credit for the Assault Vest set goes to AlexWolf*
 
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Tangrowth never really actually got worse in Gen 5 despite what tier it ended up it was always one of these things who could do a damn fine job in any tier long as you used it accordingly in a team. I had great success with it even in the OU tiers as it was one of the few things capable of either crippling or shutting down many of the big physical set up sweepers.

However in Gen 6 I will say straight up that he has been nerfed, grass immunity to powder/spore type moves hurt him significantly. For that reason I honestly say that any Tangrowth not running some kind of attack for breaking other grass types is fighting a losing battle, it won't be able to harm them nor keep up momentum by statusing them. It used to be that even if he did get blocked by another grass it was possible to say fire off a Sleep Powder/Stun Spore even if Leech Seed didn't work to cripple them, for that reason Poison Jab/Sludge Bomb pretty much has to be standard on him now.

I'd also argue that you should consider Grassy Terrain as a new option for Tangrowth adding to it's offense and bulk, he is one of the best setters of it due to it's Regenerator and giving him double STAB. Also Infestation which coupled with his bulk and the extra residual damage is possible too for controlling switches.

Nature Power is an option if you're paranoid about PP, as it becomes Earthquake in wi-fi battles. Bulldoze is gimmicky, but can set up a teammate to come in if used properly, although Tangrowth won't be outspeeding much itself even with an opponent at -1
Nature Power is no longer an option this gen, it now defaults to Tri-Attack.
 
I'll definitely look into those movesets in the 2nd post, I was trying to get the easier sets out of the way first. Thanks for the update about nature power too, didn't know that.

I don't want to put too much up either since it's still hard to get reliable damage calcs right now. Like I know tangrowth beats SD aegislash pretty easily from testing, but I don't have raw numbers yet. Similarly it stops non ice punch CB azumarill with ease, and isn't afraid of the much more common superpower like ferrothorn. With azumarill typically running play rough and superpower over ice punch, tangrowth has become a solid counter to it.

And yeah, poison attacks aren't for fairies as much as they are for other grass types, which tangrowth really struggles to hit since it can't even status them anymore outside of the rare toxic.

Always loved tangrowth in gen 5. Still think I will use HP Ice/GD/LS/SP.
Remember that HP Ice dropped to 60 BP, 10 BP is more than it sounds when you don't have stab.

Physically Defensive is a great check to standard SD Aegislash (especially if nothing is asleep yet), taking 24.56 - 29.03% from shadow sneak and 48.63 - 57.56% from iron head assuming 252 atk +2. King's Shield doesn't block status either, so tangrowth can switch in, tank a hit, and put it right to sleep, then easily OHKO with earthquake if you caught it in sword form.
 
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Tangrowth unfortunately suffers the nerf in Sleep Powder... But without sleep, it can't really stop many threats...

Yet at the same time, you want that smexy new Knock Off, then some recovery in Leech Seed or Synthesis. It leaves one more moveslot, but would you really want to use Sludge Bomb for the last one for Fairies and Grasses? D:

He's gonna suffer a 4 moveslot syndrome IMO.
 
It should be noted that if running a physical assault vest set, Impish becomes the recommended nature. Not that the extra speed helps much though...
 
I know alot of people won't even read this, but I found Tangrowth extremely viable with this set:

~Tangrowth (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Bold Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Infestation

You can switch in on a physical attacker and use Infestation to trap him. As long as he doesn't 2HKO you (which in all honesty, not many pokemon can brag about 2HKO'ing growth with physical moves), he's most likely dead. After trapping, just put him to sleep and seed him.
Then spam Giga Drain till he dies. You will most likely be back to full HP, if not, Regenerator will get you there.

Here is an example:

Scarf/Lefties chomp

252+ Atk Garchomp Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 98-116 (24.2 - 28.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery


Banded Chomp

252+ Atk Choice Band Garchomp Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 146-172 (36.1 - 42.5%) -- 93.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

It's really easy to find something Tangrowth completely walls, then it's just applying the above strategy and they're dead. It's working really great in OU environment, just don't let him take special attacks and you have a powerful tank in your hands.

Edit: Obviously Grass types stop this set cold. However, most attackers aren't really grass type

Replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-68136568
 
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This guy has access to a ridiculous number of recovery moves; giga drain, leech seed, ingrain, grassy terrain, and synthesis. That seems a little overboard to me.

Anyway, Tangrowth is a great pokemon that can stall, tank, even sweep with chlorophyll. My first testing will be for a Stall set, I was thinking

Tangrowth @ leftovers
Regenerator
Bold / 252HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Leech Seed
Infestation/toxic
Substitute/sleep powder
Sludge Bomb/Giga Drain

If anyone has any other suggestions or wants to tell me from their own testing that some things aren't viable, let me know
 
Yes I want to agree with Kairyu_gen1, Tangrowth gets Infestation and should use that.
Leech Seed / Infestation / Knock Off / Sleep Powder is the perfect wall stall set IMO
 
Yes I want to agree with Kairyu_gen1, Tangrowth gets Infestation and should use that.
Leech Seed / Infestation / Knock Off / Sleep Powder is the perfect wall stall set IMO
Like I said 2 posts above, the set I am using works perfectly. You can use Knock Off instead of Sleep Powder, but you probably won't recover as much HP. I can trap Chomps with that set, and hell, they have Fire Fang.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/pokebankoubeta-68136568

That's just the first example I found, Scizor was rendered helpless and Metagross was going the same way. I would probably 6-0 his team with tangrowth alone. He's that good..

This guy has access to a ridiculous number of recovery moves; giga drain, leech seed, ingrain, grassy terrain, and synthesis. That seems a little overboard to me.

Anyway, Tangrowth is a great pokemon that can stall, tank, even sweep with chlorophyll. My first testing will be for a Stall set, I was thinking

Tangrowth @ leftovers
Regenerator
Bold / 252HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Leech Seed
Infestation/toxic
Substitute/sleep powder
Sludge Bomb/Giga Drain

If anyone has any other suggestions or wants to tell me from their own testing that some things aren't viable, let me know
Infestation is always superior to Toxic in this case. You prevent them from running away and you don't have the "fear" to miss. Not to mention, in 4 turns your opponent should be dead, while being helpless.
4 turns isn't enough to get that much damage outta Toxic.

Also, Giga Drain provides aditional recovery and stops stuff like Swampert and Gastrodon way faster.
Last but not least, Sleep Powder is the prefered choice over Substitute, IMO. With Sleep you can render the opponent useless, and while they sleep you recover ALOT of HP from Seed, hitting them with Giga Drain and Lefties.

You should be nearly back to full hp
 
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alexwolf

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Tangrowth's main Grass move on every set should be Giga Drain, as it makes for a good switch in to bulky Water-types, such as Rotom-W, Mega Blastoise, and Jellicent, meaning that Tangrowth will be often burned and Power Whip will do shit damage. Also, get rid of Leech Seed, Grass-types are everywhere and Tangrowth isn't lacking in the healing department anyway. You want Hidden Power Fire as the first slash in the last slot, to deal with Ferrothorn, a Pokemon that would use you as set up fodder otherwise and is immune to Sleep Powder (and for other Steel-types that like to switch into Tangrowth in general). You also need Hidden Power Fire for Gourgeist-Super, as after removing its Leftovers with Knock Off you can 3HKO it with HP Fire while it can't do much back other than burning you, which is not much of an issue if you are using the correct moveset anyway. So, here is how the moveset on the first set should be:

- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sleep Powder / Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Earthquake

As for the second set, you should replace Power Whip with Giga Drain there too, and also remove the Atk investment and max SpD. As for the moves, Giga Drain and Knock Off are musts imo, though Leaf Storm could be used sometimes for the added power. Poison moves are worthless on Tangrowth as all Grass-types of OU are neutral or immune to it (Gourgeist, Trevenant, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Roserade), except from Celebi, which is taken care of by Knock Off, and Breloom, which is walled and 2HKOed by HP Ice / Fire. You don't need a move just to hit Fairy-types, especially when Azumarill is already weak to your STAB and Klefki and Mawile are immune to it, leaving only Togekiss as its target, which can be covered with Rock Slide, a move with far more utility. Here is how the moveset should look like:

- Giga Drain / Leaf Storm (maybe, not sure, though i would use Giga Drain 90% of the time)
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Rock Slide

Earthquake is Tangrowth's most powerfull physical move and takes care of many important Pokemon, some of which Tangrowth is suppsoed to counter and some of which like to switch into it, such as Excadrill, Heatran, Mega Char X, Lucario, and Aegislash, and for those reasons i think it's a must. On the last slot, all three moves are viable choices, although i dislike having three physical moves on Tangrowth, as it oftens ends up getting burnt by water-types. Hidden Power Ice covers Garchomp, Zygarde, Landorus-T, Landorus, Dragonite, and Gliscor, all Pokemon that Tangrowth can check or wall, while Hidden Power Fire covers Ferrothorn, Scizor, Genesect, Forretress, Skarmory, and both Hidden Power 2HKO Breloom. Lastly, Rock Slide takes care of Volcarona, Talonflame, Thundurus, Thundurus-T, regular Gyarados, regular Charizard and Mega Charizard Y, and deals respectable damage to Togekiss.
 
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Bulky grass types (excluding Ferrothorn) are really struggling. I am finding it hard to fit Tangrowth on a team when its just Genesect bait. You probably want to run a specific set to suit your team, HP Ice isn't doing much good when you lose to subtoxic Gliscor, Dragonite, seems uncommon and Giga Drain hits everything else. HP Ice doesn't OHKO chomp who can 2hko back with Fire Blast. HP Fire is probably better, otherwise Ferrothorn sets up all day and you can hit Scizor, Genesect, etc. Leech Seed is a very convenient move to have, but Giga Drain and Knock Off are pretty much essential, meaning you miss out on 2 of HP/EQ/SP.
 
Tangrowth's main Grass move on every set should be Giga Drain, as it makes for a good switch in to bulky Water-types, such as Rotom-W, Mega Blastoise, and Jellicent, meaning that Tangrowth will be often burned and Power Whip will do shit damage. Also, get rid of Leech Seed, Grass-types are everywhere and Tangrowth isn't lacking in the healing department anyway. You want Hidden Power Fire as the first slash in the last slot, to deal with Ferrothorn, a Pokemon that would use you as set up fodder otherwise and is immune to Sleep Powder (and for other Steel-types that like to switch into Tangrowth in general). You also need Hidden Power Fire for Gourgeist-Super, as after removing its Leftovers with Knock Off you can 3HKO it with HP Fire while it can't do much back other than burning you, which is not much of an issue if you are using the correct moveset anyway. So, here is how the moveset on the first set should be:

- Giga Drain
- Knock Off
- Sleep Powder / Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Earthquake

As for the second set, you should replace Power Whip with Giga Drain there too, and also remove the Atk investment and max SpD. As for the moves, Giga Drain and Knock Off are musts imo, though Leaf Storm could be used sometimes for the added power. Poison moves are worthless on Tangrowth as all Grass-types of OU are neutral or immune to it (Gourgeist, Trevenant, Mega Venusaur, Ferrothorn, Roserade), except from Celebi, which is taken care of by Knock Off, and Breloom, which is walled and 2HKOed by HP Ice / Fire. You don't need a move just to hit Fairy-types, especially when Azumarill is already weak to your STAB and Klefki and Mawile are immune to it, leaving only Togekiss as its target, which can be covered with Rock Slide, a move with far more utility. Here is how the moveset should look like:

- Giga Drain / Leaf Storm (maybe, not sure, though i would use Giga Drain 90% of the time)
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Rock Slide

Earthquake is Tangrowth's most powerfull physical move and takes care of many important Pokemon, some of which Tangrowth is suppsoed to counter and some of which like to switch into it, such as Excadrill, Heatran, Mega Char X, Lucario, and Aegislash, and for those reasons i think it's a must. On the last slot, all three moves are viable choices, although i dislike having three physical moves on Tangrowth, as it oftens ends up getting burnt by water-types. Hidden Power Ice covers Garchomp, Zygarde, Landorus-T, Landorus, Dragonite, and Gliscor, all Pokemon that Tangrowth can check or wall, while Hidden Power Fire covers Ferrothorn, Scizor, Genesect, Forretress, Skarmory, and both Hidden Power 2HKO Breloom. Lastly, Rock Slide takes care of Volcarona, Talonflame, Thundurus, Thundurus-T, regular Gyarados, regular Charizard and Mega Charizard Y, and deals respectable damage to Togekiss.
Tangrowth's purpose IMO, isn't to be hitting stuff hard, but stalling. My set can remove alot more threats then that in my opinion, anything that isn't grass and is physical is dead. Scizor, Chomp, Excadrill, Gyarados, Dragonite, any physical mon bar grass types.
Proper team support and you got a monsters in your hands

That's why people don't see how good he can be, they don't use him right
Bulky grass types (excluding Ferrothorn) are really struggling. I am finding it hard to fit Tangrowth on a team when its just Genesect bait. You probably want to run a specific set to suit your team, HP Ice isn't doing much good when you lose to subtoxic Gliscor, Dragonite, seems uncommon and Giga Drain hits everything else. HP Ice doesn't OHKO chomp who can 2hko back with Fire Blast. HP Fire is probably better, otherwise Ferrothorn sets up all day and you can hit Scizor, Genesect, etc. Leech Seed is a very convenient move to have, but Giga Drain and Knock Off are pretty much essential, meaning you miss out on 2 of HP/EQ/SP.
Genesect isn't all that common from what I've seen so far, but Goodra completely walls him.
I run a stall team with Landorus, Tangrowth, Goodra, Rotom-W, Gourgeist and Talonflame as a cleaner. Check out the RMT section, it's there.
It works great
 
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alexwolf

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TheUeki said:
Tangrowth's purpose isn't to hit with physical moves, it's to stall. He's a wall for god's sake..
That's why people don't see how good he can be, they don't use him right
How is this relevant to anything i said?
 
How is this relevant to anything i said?
I misinterpreted your words at first, edited the post.

The thing is, I find him way more valuable as a trapper. Once something is trapped, all they can really do is die, while you end back at nearly full hp
 

alexwolf

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TheUeki said:
Tangrowth's purpose IMO, isn't to be hitting stuff hard, but stalling. My set can remove alot more threats then that in my opinion, anything that isn't grass and is physical is dead. Scizor, Chomp, Excadrill, Gyarados, Dragonite, any physical mon bar grass types.
Proper team support and you got a monsters in your hands

That's why people don't see how good he can be, they don't use him right
First of all, why would the opponent bring in something that can't harm Tangrowth? Second, Scizor has U-turn so it can't be trapped. Infestation sets in general are very situational because of the reason i mentioned: It's difficult to stall to death a Pokemont that is supposed to check or counter you, which are the kinds of Pokemon that the opponent would bring in against you.

Also, i never suggested that Tangrowth's role is to hit stuff hard, all the coverage moves in those sets have the purpose of beating the Pokemon that Tangrowth checks/counters or beating some of its common switch-ins.
 
First of all, why would the opponent bring in something that can't harm Tangrowth? Second, Scizor has U-turn so it can't be trapped. Infestation sets in general are very situational because of the reason i mentioned: It's difficult to stall to death a Pokemont that is supposed to check or counter you, which are the kinds of Pokemon that the opponent would bring in against you.

Also, i never suggested that Tangrowth's role is to hit stuff hard, all the coverage moves in those sets have the purpose of beating the Pokemon that Tangrowth checks/counters or beating some of its common switch-ins.
Many pokemon would consider themselves counters for Tangrowth, like Talonflame, Fire Punch mons, even Infernape, and so on, and they are stopped cold by the set.
Even mega-khan can't kill that tangrowth and I bet he would stay in and try to buff with Power-up punch.

This is what I mean. Don't discard it until you try it

Edit: Scizor can't also U-turn if he's sleeping, so it can indeed potentially be trapped for a while
 
Many pokemon would consider themselves counters for Tangrowth, like Talonflame, Fire Punch mons, even Infernape, and so on, and they are stopped cold by the set.
Even mega-khan can't kill that tangrowth and I bet he would stay in and try to buff with Power-up punch.

This is what I mean. Don't discard it until you try it

Edit: Scizor can't also U-turn if he's sleeping, so it can indeed potentially be trapped for a while
This relies heavily on your opponent sleeping for the max turns so you have time to kill them. If they wake up early, you're usually going to die - every offensive variant of Talonflame 2HKOs you and Adamant MKang can 2HKO with PuP -> +2 Return.
 
This relies heavily on your opponent sleeping for the max turns so you have time to kill them. If they wake up early, you're usually going to die - every offensive variant of Talonflame 2HKOs you and Adamant MKang can 2HKO with PuP -> +2 Return.
Actually the turn Kanghaskan uses to PuP will be recovered through leechseed in 1 turn:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 43-52 (10.6 - 12.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever

So 2 turns of sleep are enough, one for infestation and one for leech seed.
Then just spam sleep powder, even at +2 he doesn't OHKO.

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 163-195 (40.3 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not to mention, in 4 turns he's dead. So no, Mega Kangha can't really get past Tangrowth, unless he only sleeps for 1 turn (never happened to me so far).
Talonflame:
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 194-230 (48 - 56.9%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

He's got nearly 1/3rd chances to 2HKO. Which means most times it's a 3HKO. More than enough to put him sleeping and seed him, and once again spam powder. Like Kangha, his only chance is to wake up right after being put to sleep, which once again, never happened to me so far

And we're talking about 2 of the biggest threats he can face. Most other pokémon are a walk in the park. Kangha I usually don't mind going against him, but I obviously don't keep Tangrowth in for Talonflame if I have a choice.

I won't say it isn't a risky game, against such strong pokémon it's obvious he might get killed, but there's a big range of other things he can kill that don't hurt him at all
 
Alexwolf's Set is Bulky Offensive, which is arguably, the best set Tangowth can have, even though ToxiStall or LeechStall works great, bulky offensive would be the most effective, as it has 100 Atk and 110 SpA, enough to hit hard with surprise, EQ takes care of many threats, such as Aegislash that survived a knock Off, or a Heatran, or Excadrill after knocking off the balloon, Giga drain catches many walls off guard, giving you a lot of HP, HP Fire gets Ferrathorn and all those steel/grass and steel/bug.
 

alexwolf

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Relying on Sleep Powder to last for two turns is not the best idea, especially when it already has only a 75% of landing in the first place. And again, your set is useless against Pokemon that can OHKO Tangrowth, are faster and have U-turn / Volt Switch, or are immune to Leech Seed and/or Sleep Powder, such as Heatran, Genesect, Mandibuzz, Trevenant, Gourgeist, Ferrothorn, Goodra (with Sap Sipper and even without, it can OHKO with max SpA), Mega Venusaur, Latios, Scizor, Rotom-W, Landorus, Volcarona, and a ton of other Pokemon. Your set is fine to beat some unsuspecting physical attackers that can't OHKO Tangrowth but it's very unreliable and nothing more than a gimmick.
 
Actually the turn Kanghaskan uses to PuP will be recovered through leechseed in 1 turn:
252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 43-52 (10.6 - 12.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever

So 2 turns of sleep are enough, one for infestation and one for leech seed.
Then just spam sleep powder, even at +2 he doesn't OHKO.

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 163-195 (40.3 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Not to mention, in 4 turns he's dead. So no, Mega Kangha can't really get past Tangrowth, unless he only sleeps for 1 turn (never happened to me so far).
Talonflame:
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 194-230 (48 - 56.9%) -- 34.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

He's got nearly 1/3rd chances to 2HKO. Which means most times it's a 3HKO. More than enough to put him sleeping and seed him, and once again spam powder. Like Kangha, his only chance is to wake up right after being put to sleep, which once again, never happened to me so far

And we're talking about 2 of the biggest threats he can face. Most other pokémon are a walk in the park. Kangha I usually don't mind going against him, but I obviously don't keep Tangrowth in for Talonflame if I have a choice.

I won't say it isn't a risky game, against such strong pokémon it's obvious he might get killed, but there's a big range of other things he can kill that don't hurt him at all
I want to point out that if you're spamming Sleep Powder, it takes 5 turns to kill your opponent, not 4 - the first turn they only take 12.5% since you can't use LS and Infestation at the same time. You need to use Giga Drain to make Infestation + LS a 4HKO, and that doesn't even work with Talonflame since it has a 4x resist. Also Talonflame usually has LO, CB or Sharp Beak, which puts it comfortably in 2HKO range. There are much more reliable checks to these threats that don't get completely screwed by everything alexwolf just listed.
 
Oh cool, my thread got resurrected from the dead.

The OP is way out of date, I wrote it ages ago, I'll update it tomorrow hopefully (it's 1 AM here right now) with the things added in this thread recently. And trim it, it's way too freaking long.

I have to admit I'm not a fan of the infestation sets, why is anything going to stay in on a situation where they would have a disadvantage? I've tried to run that set before, and anything I wanted to trap just switched out, and then they saw I had the move and made sure not to get trapped.

And please don't use tangrowth against talonflame. Those calcs of 3HKOs were with no hazards, no damage boosting item (literally impossible), and tangrowth at 100% HP. I don't need to look up calcs to know that trying to counter a pokemon that has dual SE stabs against you is a bad idea.
 
I obviously don't keep Tangrowth in for Talonflame if I have a choice.
Anyway,
I've had a few people experiment this same set and their opinion was the same as mine:
i have been testing out your tangrowth and I retract all doubts I ever had about it. It can single handedly win games. I mean wow, as for your team though I do think you have to pick betweeen gourgeist and tangrowth and I think you should keep tangrowth.
That was posted on my RMT featuring this Tangrowth. Maybe we're just lucky then
 
Considering Infestation > Sleep Powder is a, minimum, 2 turn setup, what kind of scenarios are you proposing Tangrowth will survive, let alone dominate, things like MegaKhan in?

Nearly anything you swap into to counter will kill you with a boost before you setup. MegaKhan gets +2 from PuP then gets two +2 Returns. Scizor Swords Dances, then U-turns out avoiding the situation entirely and swaps in a counter that, odds are, is sleep and seeds immune. Garchomp can DDance, Swords Dance, or just plain run a mixed coverage move in Fire Blast as it is known to do and completely shut you down before you can even think of sleep powdering.

What are some of the turn by turn examples of your Tangrowth functioning and what are your opponents doing? Or not doing, from the looks of it.
 
OP updated and trimmed. I'll test some other sets for now, probably play around with a bulky offense set and see what happens. I know he won't stay OU, but I certainly think he's viable there and I don't want to guess around lower tiers when nothing is certain yet.
 
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