Serious Teacher loses appeal to return to teaching because of history in pornography

[Empoof]

um you do not have to break the law to get fired

and her past in porn was definitely causing an outrage among parents of her students and many other headaches for the school, is that reason enough?

Woah my b, I had thought this would be a case covered by Employment Discrimination Laws. Turns out it's totally just not.

Disregard zz I'd be a terrible lawyer

 

[capefeather]

the elephant in the room here is that everybody who's defending her is doing so by saying 'oh you know maybe she couldnt make ends meet and it was a dark time in her life and and and', and nobody is saying 'what about the possibility that she likes getting jizzed on an decided to monetize it', since female sexuality is infinitely more taboo and scary than male sexuality.

You're right, but it's just an unfortunate consequence of the fact that arguing multiple points is hard to do without tl;dr. A lot of us were arguing that EVEN IF "porn is bad" is a true statement, etc. The argument wouldn't really change if we were talking about a drug addict who successfully went clean, or if we were talking about a gay man who ran into repeated cases of discrimination at the school.

and her past in porn was definitely causing an outrage among parents of her students and many other headaches for the school, is that reason enough?

So I'd like to remind people why we can't just coddle people's prejudices every time. You may ask, why does it matter?

This whole thing hits me deep as a future educator, especially as a gay one. Not too long ago homosexuals couldn't teach for basically the same reasons those judges gave to support their decision! My whole future can also be ripped right out from under me just as it was for this poor teacher in almost the exact same way, and I've done nothing "wrong".

That's why it matters. Mere years ago, being gay was a liability in the same way porn is a liability (and it still is sometimes). Mere decades ago, being non-white, or female, was a huge liability. And don't pull the "X had a choice" card. You don't get to play the "X had a choice" card and simultaneously pull the "X doesn't have a choice" card for the students'/parents' attitudes.

 

[Fishy]

also, i don't think it's fair to assume that because you had a past career in pornography, you should forsee "your colleagues being gossipy dickbags who chose to spread around irrelevant past information about you instead of minding their own damn business"

 

[jrrrrrrr]

being in porn does not make her a terrible person, as your post seems to paint her out to be. you're being completely insensitive towards a woman who has lost her whole career, one that she's presumably spent years working towards, because of this. have you ever made a decision you regretted? of course you have, so should people judge and persecute you for your whole life because of it? taking the standpoint you are now is simply not conducive to change, which starts with a little empathy.

I have no problem with the fact that she was in porn. I have a problem with that person trying to pass themselves off as a role model for children when the entire student body knows what she'll do for a couple hundo. If your idea of change is that we should start listening to a porn actress for guidance in life, I am happy to hear that I'm not conducive to change.

That's why it matters. Mere years ago, being gay was a liability in the same way porn is a liability (and it still is sometimes). Mere decades ago, being non-white, or female, was a huge liability. And don't pull the "X had a choice" card. You don't get to play the "X had a choice" card and simultaneously pull the "X doesn't have a choice" card for the students'/parents' attitudes.

Are you really comparing sucking dick for money on camera to being non-white?

the idea that she has no self respect solely on account of her job is what's bullshit, though. to say a human is irredeemable solely based on what they do/did for money is ridiculously narrow and retrograde. what if she used to work for monsanto and decided to become a teacher? i think anyone with any sense of morality would agree that she would be a significantly worse role model in that case. but of course nobody would cry foul in that situation, because sex for money is ICKY.

The porn/sex industry is the lowest line of work. Literally anybody can do it. It takes no knowledge or skill or training. You can be easily replaced by anyone who walks through the front door. It's dangerous with STDs and the grey-area distinctions between prostitution vs pornography. It's an admission that the only thing worthwhile about you is your naked body. And some people would say that porn has negative effects on people in general. And then you have to explain to your kids why they shouldn't make a quick buck like you did, while simultaneously explaining to your husband/wife why they shouldn't be mad about it because you're so progressive. There is absolutely nothing to be proud of in doing porn, and I feel confident in saying that you must have no self-respect to do it.

also, i don't think it's fair to assume that because you had a past career in pornography, you should forsee "your colleagues being gossipy dickbags who chose to spread around irrelevant past information about you instead of minding their own damn business"

Have you ever met a person? Ridiculous question, but honestly... How could anyone believe people won't spread a rumor like that? Especially someone that wants to work with middle schoolers! That is what should be baffling people the most. There are consequences for decisions you make in life. She decided that the money was worth everyone knowing what she'll do for money. She made her bed, now she has to sleep in it (after a long shower). There's really nothing else to it.

 

[Mastadi]

Are you really comparing sucking dick for money on camera to being non-white?

The attitude of the general populace in both cases is similar enough for the comparison to work.

The porn/sex industry is the lowest line of work. Literally anybody can do it. It takes no knowledge or skill or training.

The same could be said about industries such as modeling, yet nobody seems to have an issue with that.

There is absolutely nothing to be proud of in doing porn, and I feel confident in saying that you must have no self-respect to do it.

But why? There's nothing wrong with pornography, and the only reasoning I can think of stems from centuries of making anything related to sex taboo. If someone's willing to do pornography, for whatever reason, then why shouldn't they be able to without society treating them as if they had the plague? If they are proud of their body or enjoy the idea of being filmed in the act, why should we stop them? Even if they're doing it just for a quick buck, why should we blame them? You don't really get that kinda stigma from working in a fast food outlet or any other place that requires little or no knowledge or skill, yet they're both just a means of achieving an end goal, earning a relatively small amount of money without having to have any more advanced skills or qualifications.

Have you ever met a person? Ridiculous question, but honestly... How could anyone believe people won't spread a rumor like that? Especially someone that wants to work with middle schoolers! That is what should be baffling people the most. There are consequences for decisions you make in life. She decided that the money was worth everyone knowing what she'll do for money. She made her bed, now she has to sleep in it (after a long shower). There's really nothing else to it.

If we're to hold teachers to a higher standard, we should probably not only consider their past jobs, but also their current behaviour. Would you want your child's teacher to gossip and make fun of your children with their colleagues?

 

[capefeather]

List of jrrrr's points:

• This teacher IS a porn actress whether she still does it or not
• Choosing to do porn at any point in your life means you should be condemned, while promoting hatred is just natural and should even be encouraged
• Continues to repeat a logical fallacy, even quoting the part where it's pointed out
• "It's an admission that the only thing worthwhile about you is your naked body." no comment

 

[Glen]

The porn/sex industry is the lowest line of work. Literally anybody can do it. It takes no knowledge or skill or training. You can be easily replaced by anyone who walks through the front door. It's dangerous with STDs and the grey-area distinctions between prostitution vs pornography. It's an admission that the only thing worthwhile about you is your naked body. And some people would say that porn has negative effects on people in general. And then you have to explain to your kids why they shouldn't make a quick buck like you did, while simultaneously explaining to your husband/wife why they shouldn't be mad about it because you're so progressive. There is absolutely nothing to be proud of in doing porn, and I feel confident in saying that you must have no self-respect to do it.

i refuse to believe that you are actually this fucking narrowminded

are you actually implying that what someone does for a living is the sum of their worth? what about models? is their job an admission that the only thing worthwhile about them is their clothed body? is my job, as a fashion stylist, which requires no real skill set beyond a (undeniably subjective) aesthetic acumen, an admission that i'm worthless outside an understanding of what looks good? hell, what about desk workers working jobs with requirements that don't extend very far beyond 'can sit in a chair for eight hours a day' and 'can make deadlines'?

'literally anybody' can do a lot of jobs, many of which don't carry the negative connotation that pornography does, and i highly doubt you'd be as derisive of the people who work them.

 

[alamaster]

I don't know if jrrrrrr personally feels that way, but in society that is definitely the view of people who work in porn. The negative connotation is the reason most people don't go into porn, but the people who do knowingly take the risk of being found out. This woman was found out knowing that there was a chance that could happen, so tough shit for her.

 

[Glen]

I don't know if jrrrrrr personally feels that way, but in society that is definitely the view of people who work in porn. The negative connotation is the reason most people don't go into porn, but the people who do knowingly take the risk of being found out. This woman was found out knowing that there was a chance that could happen, so tough shit for her.

while i don't agree with you on the 'tough shit' part, at least you're not being an asshole about it, whereas the part of jrrrrrrr's post that i bolded was as offensive as it was facile

 

[alamaster]

I try not to be an asshole in forum discussions :) (occasionally I fail but tough shit)

:>

 

[Ninahaza]

The porn/sex industry is the lowest line of work. Literally anybody can do it. It takes no knowledge or skill or training. You can be easily replaced by anyone who walks through the front door. It's dangerous with STDs and the grey-area distinctions between prostitution vs pornography. It's an admission that the only thing worthwhile about you is your naked body. And some people would say that porn has negative effects on people in general. And then you have to explain to your kids why they shouldn't make a quick buck like you did, while simultaneously explaining to your husband/wife why they shouldn't be mad about it because you're so progressive. There is absolutely nothing to be proud of in doing porn, and I feel confident in saying that you must have no self-respect to do it.

I don't know if jrrrrrr personally feels that way, but in society that is definitely the view of people who work in porn. The negative connotation is the reason most people don't go into porn, but the people who do knowingly take the risk of being found out.

Agreed. I consider myself a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to the adult industry and here is why:
From the first day i discovered pornography i was all for it. i did not view the adult industry in a negative light nor the people that chose to enter it, but then something happened that hit home and unveiled views that really surprised me. A friend that was close to my heart decided to enter the adult industry, and although at first i thought i was ok with this, i quickly came to find out what my true feelings on the adult industry were.

Today this girl could ask me if i am really ok with her decision and i would probably give her the answer i think she wants to hear, but the truth is that i cannot even look at her the way i once used to. the strings that she had managed to once attach to my heart have almost all been severed by that one decision she made. Really sometimes i cannot figure out if this hurts me more than i realize because its just not fair to her. she is perfectly legal and in her right to do WHATEVER THE FUCK SHE WANTS. If that is what she really wanted, then who am i to react in such a way? why have i distanced myself so much? why do i not feel the same way about her as i once did.

I really hope i can one day walk the walk instead of just talk the talk, and by that i mean that i can really feel the same way about the adult industry as i can talk about it/defend it. Because right now really i still am all for it

 

[jrrrrrrr]

List of jrrrr's points:

• This teacher IS a porn actress whether she still does it or not

• 
  
  I don't see her complaining about the royalty checks she's going to get from this story breaking out, with everyone googling her videos and pictures.
  
  

  [*]Choosing to do porn at any point in your life means you should be condemned, while promoting hatred is just natural and should even be encouraged

  I'm not "promoting hatred". Stop lying. People can disagree with you without being blind. I am promoting the crazy idea that porn stars should not be propped up as a role model in front of teenagers. And you should condemn people who do porn, it is never a good life choice (condemn meaning disapprove and not "send to hell forever" as you imply). So now I ask you- if you're fine with it, will you be encouraging your daughter to do porn when she turns 18?
  
  Just remember: you guys have to pick a wife out of this generation of women. You can feel free to encourage them to film as many sex acts with as many guys as they want, it doesn't affect my future sanity :)
  
  

  [*]Continues to repeat a logical fallacy, even quoting the part where it's pointed out

  So you are doubling down on your comment that being black is the same as sucking cocks for money and selling those videos to the public and complaining about how unfair the public is treating you?
  
  

  The attitude of the general populace in both cases is similar enough for the comparison to work.

  Do you all really not understand the difference between posting videos of yourself on the internet committing sex acts for your students to see and having black skin, or having sex in your own private location?
  
  

  i refuse to believe that you are actually this fucking narrowminded
  
  are you actually implying that what someone does for a living is the sum of their worth? what about models? is their job an admission that the only thing worthwhile about them is their clothed body? is my job, as a fashion stylist, which requires no real skill set beyond a (undeniably subjective) aesthetic acumen, an admission that i'm worthless outside an understanding of what looks good? hell, what about desk workers working jobs with requirements that don't extend very far beyond 'can sit in a chair for eight hours a day' and 'can make deadlines'?

  1) What someone chooses to do is not the sum of their worth, it's the sum of their self-worth. You don't just wake up one day and decide to have your defiled body be passed around forever on the internet.
  
  2) Subjective or not, a sense of style that other people like is a skill that requires actual honing.
  
  3) "can make deadlines" and "comes to work for 8 hours a day" are really really valuable work skills, I'm not sure what that comment meant. Ask any employer how much they love people who make deadlines and come to work (they're getting rarer). They're definitely more valuable skills than "will put anything in mouth"
  
  

  A friend that was close to my heart decided to enter the adult industry, and although at first i thought i was ok with this, i quickly came to find out what my true feelings on the adult industry were.

  That was a good read. I'm sorry to hear about how it affected you. This highlights my feelings: everyone is fine when it's some anonymous pornstar, yet for some reason nobody in this thread will stand up and tell me that they'll encourage their daughter, wife or friend to do porn.

 

[capefeather]

People can and have disagreed with me in this very thread without spewing nearly as much of the hate-filled rhetoric that you keep spewing.

 

[v]

Fucking is also a skill that can be honed

 

[elcheeso]

Not only what Vader said, but fucking on camera for the express purpose of getting someone off who isn't involved in the sex itself is also something that requires some sort of skill. Probably at least as much as "having a sense of style that other people like", ha. Also you'd have to be either extremely young or extremely stupid to not be aware that for a long ass time, most of society considered gay men to be the same thing as child rapists (they have to "recruit", obviously '_,), a gay guy as a teacher would clearly be a terrible role model for children and also a threat to them, so "tough shit" if they get fired for their sexuality. It's not as if that perception has completely gone away, either. Did you ever try not being a societal cancer? Also, do you consider yourself defiled for having sucked a few dicks, or does the defiling only happen when you accept money for it for a few months of your life and film it? Because that's essentially the only difference between the two of you. She got paid, you didn't.

Your only argument is that you are disgusted by people selling sex and wouldn't do it yourself. She did porn for a few months of her life, before she even started working as a teacher. It's a period of her life that she claims to regret, but apparently that makes her little more than a disgusting hooker who will suck off anything for a few bucks, and a terrible role model because she had sex on camera 8 years ago.

Seriously, outside of Logan, you're the most blatantly misogynistic poster in this thread... your "you have to pick a wife out of this generation" is incredibly reminiscent of his comments about how women who have had a lot of sex are less valuable to men. Classy.

Also, since you're desperate to have people answer your stupid ass question that has nothing to do with anything relevant, no, I wouldn't encourage anyone in my life to get into porn. This is almost entirely because the industry has a lot of problems associated with it, exploitation and abuse being some of them (although I'm not trying to suggest that that's going to be super common or anything), plus the bullshit attitudes from people such as yourself. However, I would never damn someone and suggest that they have no self worth because they got into sex work. It's not something I would choose to do, but they'd have my full support if they've weighed the pros and cons and decided to do it without being pressured into it. It's just sex. Lots of people do it. Putting a monetary value on it does not make someone worth less as a person or a worker. Even if you believe sex work isn't something to be idealised, the people who do it should not be damned for years after stopping being involved with it.

But I guess you're taking your arguments from Logan here. "Once a whore, always a whore", right?

PS: Ninahaza is at least capable of realising that attitude isn't healthy and is also hypocritical considering his standing on porn.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Prostitutes are also fine as people. Can't believe you guys hatin' on prostitutes-- what did them workin' folks ever do to you? (besides give you a good blow)

Of course not ANYONE can be a porn star. Ya gotta have them huge natural boobies like miss Halas does (at least to get me to watch). Gotta hollah' at that Halas. still won't be a fan because her only creampies are anal.

 

[Cshadow]

I haven't seen anyone actually answer the questions jr7 listed in has last post. I might as well bite.

Do you really want a porn star teaching your kids?

I want a competent and qualified professional teaching my children. The fact that they were a porn star is irrelevant and doesn't change their competency, qualifications or professionalism as a teacher. Either they can do the job or they can't.

Is that the person you want to look up to?

While everyone has their own idea as to what qualifies as a role model, I'm honestly not understanding what isn't there to look up to. She had a rough patch in her life and made a decision that she (seems to, not that it actually matters whether she does or not) regret, and changed. And what did this change encompass? She decided to go to school and get an education in a field that would let her make a meaningful contribution to society - she may even be able to help some young women stay away from an industry with a history of abuse, among other things.

And even if she liked it, who cares? She did what she needed to get where she wanted. And where she wanted to be is nothing short of ambitious and admirable.

Just because you can't find any reason to look up to her, doesn't mean that others can't or won't find the traits that make her a good role model.

Is that who you want your kids looking up to?

Honestly? Kinda, yeah, I would. If I ever have/adopt/[whatever the appropriate word is] children, I hope that my hypothetical daughter finds a female role model who is able to show her that anyone is capable of anything, despite the ups and downs they've experienced in life. Porn Star turned Middle School Teacher is the very definition of a 180 (at least by the views our society currently holds) and shows the character of an ambitious and strong woman who wants to make a significant impact on the lives of younger children in the best way possible.

The only person who should be getting sympathy in this situation is her father. What a shame for him.

I call bullshit.

If I was the father I'd feel ashamed. Not because of my daughter, oh no. Let's assume for a moment that my daughter did this because she was desperate and had no where else to turn for money - that she was in a bad place in life and felt like she had no one else to rely on to help her. You know how that would make me feel? Like shit. Like total shit. And why? Because I should've raised my daughter to know that she could rely on me, that she could always come to me when she needed anything no matter what the circumstances were.

Now, there's a billion and a half horny fourteen year olds masturbating to her naked body because she felt she had no other choice in the matter, and she'll have to live with the decision she made (read as: regrets) for the rest of her life, and I couldn't imagine how that feels.

On the flip side: if she did this because she wanted to do it, then I feel nothing and support her.

I have no idea what I would do if I saw my daughter in a porn, let alone if the whole world knew about it forever thanks to google.

I would hope you'd be supportive one way or the other, honestly. Supportive of her decision or be their to comfort her when she has to deal with people that share your perspective.

I assume you'll be there to encourage your daughter to do porn when she turns 18?

Fuck no.

In fact, I'd do quite the opposite - I'd do everything I could to convince her to stay away. Not for moral reasons - not because I believe that having sex on camera somehow makes her have less value as a human being, but mostly because I'd be afraid. I'd be afraid of what the industry might do to her for one, but that's not the end of it.

I'd really be afraid of people like you, or rather, the people that share your perspective and the amount of influence the people with that perspective have over her life, and what they might do as a result. Are they going to get her fired (like in the news story)? Are they going to use the information to ruin her life in some way because of how our society views sex? What are people going to do to her if they find out? I don't know what would happen, and honestly that's what scares me the most.

I'd let my daughter know my concerns. I'd let her know the possible consequences of a decision like this (assuming views on sex haven't changed by the time I have kids) and I'd probably look for posts similar to this and make sure with absolute certainty that she'd like to do something like this. At the end of the day, it is her body, and she is free to do with it as she pleases. As a Dad, the best thing I can do is support my daughter the best I can as she lives her life.

 

[Xephyr]

Anyone can do porn?

Alright jrrrrrrr, I'd like to see you keep an erection for an hour and ejaculate on command after said hour is over.

Well, I mean, I wouldn't actually like to see it, but it'd be funny to see you try. Because you would fail.

But I'm just nitpicking here. I have nothing else to add to this conversation other than the fact that jr is a judgmental fuckhead and having people like him in society makes me upset.

 

[MrIndigo]

Guys, why are you still debating this. It's clear JRRRRRRRRRRR just has a pathological hatred of women and sexuality.

 

[Every1XplodeNOW]

Do I want a ex-porn star teaching my kids........

To be honest, no. I personally do not like porn or the ideal of getting paid for money, it's just feels wrong to me. Though, that's not the reason, it's that I don't want my kids exposed to that when they might not be ready for that. It might confuse them or it could possibly scar them. You can say I'm being too protective, but I just don't want them exposed to something that they can't handle.

 

[MrIndigo]

Do I want a ex-porn star teaching my kids........

To be honest, no. I personally do not like porn or the ideal of getting paid for money, it's just feels wrong to me. Though, that's not the reason, it's that I don't want my kids exposed to that when they might not be ready for that. It might confuse them or it could possibly scar them. You can say I'm being too protective, but I just don't want them exposed to something that they can't handle.

The teacher isn't showing them their pornography portfolio in class.


If your kids are getting exposed to it, it's got nothing to do with the teacher and everything to do with the fact they're around other pubescent and prepubescent children.

EDIT: And, you know, the fact that most kids are smart enough to google "boobies" or "naked ladies" before the age of ten. Welcome to the internet.

 

[Every1XplodeNOW]

The teacher isn't showing them their pornography portfolio in class.


If your kids are getting exposed to it, it's got nothing to do with the teacher and everything to do with the fact they're around other pubescent and prepubescent children.

EDIT: And, you know, the fact that most kids are smart enough to google "boobies" or "naked ladies" before the age of ten. Welcome to the internet.

Neither was Halas, but they still found out about it.

Yeah it has everything to do with the teacher if that teacher is an ex-porn star and that's how my kids found out about it, inadvertently or not.(Oh btw, I don't have kids, this is hypothetical)

So you're saying just because they could google search "boobies" or "naked ladies" makes it ok for kids to be exposed to it? Here's a hint: it's not.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Do I want a ex-porn star teaching my kids........

To be honest, no. I personally do not like porn or the ideal of getting paid for money, it's just feels wrong to me.

I personally prefer to be paid for money. Or at least paid money. Wait. :evan:

 

[capefeather]

Guys, why are you still debating this. It's clear JRRRRRRRRRRR just has a pathological hatred of women and sexuality.

I guess I'm still in it to show that he's just another example of someone who says he likes freedom, but it turns out that just means freedom of attitude and/or freedom for just him and people he likes.

Also I kept wanting to answer his question but the rest of his posts were just so incredible I wasn't sure I wanted to dignify that with a response. Cshadow put it really well. The important thing is, I'd value honest dialogue over fear-mongering and forcing of opinion.

 

[Xephyr]

This is like the twelfth instance where I've seen an entire thread gang up to argue against jrrrr and he always still seems to consider himself right.

Youre completely ignoring the people's REASONING for saying they wouldnt encourage their family to do porn. Theyre saying theyre afraid of the industry first and foremost. It has nothing to do with societal pressures from sexist douche bags like jrrrrr