Team Forretress 2

[BlackLightAttack]

So, this is my second OU team so far, and rather than going with simple offense with 1 wall, I've decided to try a stall team. Despite the name, it wasn't built around Forretress, although he is still a key player. This runs as a Pseudo-Sand team; that is, it enjoys Sandstorms when they're available, but doesn't necessarily require it. 3/6 Pokemon are immune to sandstorm damage, and along with the healthy presence of entry hazards and some form of end-turn healing on all non-immune Poke's, sandstorm can help whittle away the other team during the stall.

In any case, Meet the Team:

Building Process:
*Note*
Over half of this team was ultimately changed for other pokemon so you'll more than likely want to skip this section. The final team roster is posted just above this and at the bottom of this section. I just kept this part so people can keep up to see what about the team the comments below were referring to.
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This might surprise you, but again, Forretress was not the first choice on a team called Team Forretress (the name actually came after I started assigning Poke's TF2 names, and a noticed I had Forretress on there anyway). I just wanted to try Zapdos out, so this team was to see what I could pull with Zapdos.

Next I chose my lead, which is probably something you should start with, but oh well. Metagross (almost) guarantees Stealth Rock, which is something I value heavily. I also love exploding leads, and a priority attack is just icing on the cake.

Next came the muscle, and TTar is as reliable as it gets. Sandstorm would work well with Metagross, and okay with Zapdos. Which TTar set I picked came later, but I knew I wanted this guy on my side.

This was starting to look like a stall team, with the 2 hitters being bulkier choices and TTar's sandstorm, so Forretress made an excellent next pick. Extreme physical bulk, Rapid Spin to clear the way for Zapdos, the ability to drop Toxic Spikes, and immunity to Sandstorm made him the clear choice. His synergy with Zapdos doesn't stop at Rapid Spin; fliers that avoid Toxic Spikes are almost all weak to STAB Tbolt.

Vaporeon is an easy choice with its access to Wish, as Forretress can't heal itself and TTar likes to get itself hurt. Not to mention, Metagross playing Lead can easily come back in without its only option being explosion, if it has Wish support. Also, I've seen Heatran run through my teams too many times because I'm not prepared to take STAB fire attacks in OU, and this team is no exception. Zapdos will be able to wall a few attacks with his Special bulk, and Tyranitar at full health can take him out easily, but Zapdos won't be able to dent Heatran in return and TTar can easily be taken out before Heatran rears its ugly head. Vaporeon brings STAB surf and massive Special Bulk to counter Heatran.

Breloom finishes the team with his powerful STABs and ability to quickly regenerate his health behind a substitute. He'll serve as a great revenger for Steel types that both threaten TTar and are immune to Forretress' Toxic Spikes, since he carries both Spore and Focus Punch.

Then I threw half of that in the garbage and came up with a brand spankin' new team:

In depth:

"Thanks for standin' still, wanker!"

Swampert @Leftovers - "Sniper"
~Torrent~

Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Ice Beam
Roar

Relaxed
240 HP
216 Def
52 Spd

Metagross was originally leading my team, but considering the already-abundant presence of Steel-Types and weak spots against Heatran and DD Dragonite on this team, Swampert seemed like a perfect substitute. He almost guarantees Stealth Rock, like Metagross, and may not hit as hard, but can easily come in and wall during midgame. Ice Beam earns him the name Sniper by shooting Dragonite, Flygon, and Gliscor out of the sky, and Earthquake checks Heatran and then some. Roar is a great addition to this team with all of its entry hazards and serves to pHaze the other team. Someone suggested moving Forretress to the front, but considering the constant threat of LeadTran, as well as other Fire-attack-carrying leads (Infernape, Azelf, Dragonite, the occasional Fire Punch on Jirachi, etc), that didn't seem like a great place to put him. Swampert fills this job perfectly.

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"I told ya, don't touch that darn thing!"

Forretress @Shed Shell - "Engineer"
~Sturdy~

Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Payback

Relaxed
252 HP
112 Atk
144 SpD

Forretress plays a key role here as a physical wall, entry hazard remover, and Toxic Spiker. He's looking to come in relatively early and start setting up Spikes/Toxic Spikes, as that is an extremely important element of the stall. Aside from being able to stall just by being there, due to his monstrous defense, he also serves to counter other Toxic Spike users, both by being immune and by carrying Rapid Spin. Payback was taken over Explosion or Gyro Ball to threaten Spin Blockers. Gengar is the only one is directly threatened by Payback from Forretress, but it is still capable of denting the Rotom-formes and Dusknoir. However, Forretress wouldn't be caught sticking around to try and handle Dusknoir or Rotom-H himself, since they both potentially carry Fire Attacks.

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"Vould you like a second opinion? You are also ugly!"

Vaporeon @Leftovers - "Medic"
~Water Absorb~

Wish
Protect
Surf
Heal Bell

Bold
216 Def
232 SpD
60 SpA

Vaporeon serves a very important function on this team as a Wish healer (also earning him his nickname), because my other Walls, Forretress and Swampert, cannot heal themselves. Heal Bell is useful to prevent Toxic from whittling down my walls, Protect is there to stall, self-Wish-heal, give another turn of leftovers, and maybe block an explosion.

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"If God had wanted you to live, he would not have created me!"

Rotom-H @Leftovers - "Soldier"
~Levitate~

Substitute
Pain Split
Will-o-Wisp
Thunderbolt

Timid
252 HP
64 Def
192 Spd

Zapdos originally filled this slot on the team, but Rotom-W fills a much more important role: Spin Blocking. With Stealth Rock and both kinds of Spikes playing crucial roles on the team, a Spin Blocker is absolutely required. Sub-Split is a fantastic choice for a stall team and Will-o-Wisp can burn any fliers, levitators, or steel-types who aren't affected by Toxic Spikes. H-form bluffs Overheat and can potentially bait Water types which will only switch in to get hit by Tbolt.

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"Vat vas dat, Sandvich? Kill zem all? Good idea! Hahaha!"

Hippowdon @Leftovers - "Heavy"
~Sand Stream~

Stockpile
Slack Off
Earthquake
Stone Edge / Ice Fang / Roar

Impish
176 HP
84 Def
248 SpD

This slot was originally dedicated to a Breloom for some extra offensive power, but adding Hippowdon instead makes this team much more stall-based, as well as solidifying its status as a sand team. The Stockpile set was taken because if Hippo manages to pull off 3 or even 2 boosts, he becomes incredibly difficult to KO when Slack off is taken into account. Add entry hazards to the mix and you have yourself a staller, especially if the pokemon being stalled is not immune to Toxic Spikes. Earthquake is a basic STAB and stops many threats this team originally had. I'm still debating the last slot. Stone Edge hits Fliers that are immune to Earthquake and does its best to make up for the fact that Tyranitar isn't carrying a STAB Rock-type move. This set could run into a lot of counters that resist the Earthquake/Stone Edge combo, however, but giving him Ice Fang instead would give him the exact same coverage as Swampert, which isn't necessarily a good thing. Also, Ice Fang is only a BP 65 move and will really only threaten Pokes that have a double Ice weakness. Roar is useful but Swampert is also already taking that role, and I'm not really sure any team needs 2 pHazers. On the other hand, Roar could force out pokemon that are immune to Earthquake and force them to continue taking Stealth Rock damage when they switch back in. Roar is a great solution to Dragonite due to his Rock weakness, but it's only so-so against Gliscor and Skarmory and terrible against Flygon and Bronzong.
​

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"Ohhhh, they're gon'ta hafta glue you back together...IN HELL."

Tyranitar @Expert Belt - "Demoman"
~Sand Stream~

Dark Pulse
Superpower
Flamethrower
Thunderbolt / Ice Beam

Naive
48 Atk
252 SpA
208 Spe

Tyranitar may not be a wall due to his "weak-to-absolutely-everything" typing, but he's got impressive bulk nonetheless and serves as an important counter-stall breaker on this team. Mixtar was chosen for its type coverage and is especially important in breaking Blissey and opposing TTar with Superpower. Flamethrower is important for hitting Levitating and Flying Steel-Types, as well as the constant threat of Scizor (who normally laughs at TTar) and opposing Forretress. Thunderbolt is an option to threaten Gyarados and other Water Types, although it's mostly just Gyarados. Ice beam is the other choice to manage the common threats mentioned earlier that are weak to Ice, but each is already used on the team - Thunderbolt on Rotom and Ice Beam on Swampert. If I ultimately decide on Ice Fang for Hippowdon, Thunderbolt will be the easy choice so I can keep 2 each of both Electric and Ice moves on the team.

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Special thanks (for input):
Lucien Lachance
The Legendkiller
Raikaria
apologies
DankDawson
teatime1008
​

 

[Lucien Lachance]

For zapdos, try Sub+Roost with Toxic and T-Bolt. That's a stall pokemon. If you have T-spikes up, you can use like Heat Wave or something.

This is Semi-Stall as you don't have all entry hazards. Forre can set-up Spikes.

You need a Spin-Blocker. a Sub+Pain Split Rotom is amazing and really just stalls people out.

 

[afterburn]

It looks like Dragon Dance Dragonite could be a big problem for the team, setting-up on Tyranitar locked into Earthquake. For this reason I suggest you put Scarf Stealth Rock Jirachi over your current one, here's the set:

Jirachi@Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
Evs: 252atk/252spe/4hp
-Stealth Rock
-Iron head
-U-turn/Trick
-Ice punch

This aids your team in man handling that DD Dragonite who can Dragon Claw/Outrage everything on your team, bar Metagross and Forretress who are handled by Earthquake for the former, and Fire punch for the latter. Jirachi also lets you mess-up other stall teams and revenge choice locked Outraging Flygon.

Also as posted by the above user, you NEED a spin blocker. Perhaps something nifty and uncommon such as sub-split rotom-a? It abuses toxic spikes to the fullest, especially against things like blissey, who would usually mess-up rotom-a. I suggest you use the upcoming set over your current Zapdos:

Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/64 Def/192 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Will-o-wisp
- Pain Split
- Substitute

This guy really messes up Scarf Flygon trying to come in thunderbolt with W-o-W, and everything vulnerable to toxic spikes will HATE this rotom-a to no end. It also gives you a counter to non-Zen Headbutt Metagross, and substitute is great for scouting for troublesome pokemon, definitely give this a try.

Other Options I'd suggest would be Roar or Hidden Power Electric over Toxic on Vaporeon since you already have Toxic Spikes, and Roar and Hp Electric also aid against DDing Gyarados.

 

[BlackLightAttack]

I could see Zapdos with Sub instead of Roar, although that removes his pHazing abilities and leaves me open to pokes that set up like SD Luke and DD Dragonite.

Spikes I could make room for on Forretress, and he might even live long enough to throw out a layer of Toxic Spikes and 2/3 Spikes before having to switch out.

And Rotom is a problem...I actually like to make my teams, and not just build them on Shoddy. Also, I don't use hacks of any kind (can't get them to work on my R4 card), so the Secret Key is unavailable to me. If I could get him some way, though, I could swap out Breloom for him.

I'd still probably keep Breloom against my 2 friends that I actually play with often, as neither of them really use Spinners. That'll probably change when they see this team, though.

 

[Raikaria]

A team is not automatically semi-stall just because it sets up more than one hazard. If anything, I'd call this bulky offense. The extra hazards help make extra use of the bulkyness of the pokemon, but Zapdos, Tyranitar, Metagross, and Breloom are not stalling pokemon, and are often seen on bulkier offensive teams.


On the Metagross lead, I'd suggest dropping Explosion. I know you love explodeing leads, but Metagross just can't cut it if you're using BP. 4MSS. Metagross needs Meteor Mash to deal with flying leads, and score a harder hit on Machamps and Roserades.

If you insist on keeping explosion, Meteor Mash > Earthquake, the only noteable leads EQ hits harder than MM are other Metagross, Jirachis, Heatrans, and Swamperts, none of which cause you many problems, due to Zapdos and Vaporeon.

I'd suggest trying this set on Metagross, keeping the EV's and Nature the same:

Stealth Rock
Meteor Mash
Bullet Punch
Earthquake

If not, you could try this set instead, same EV's and Nature, again:
Stealth Rock
Meteor Mash
Bullet Punch
Explosion

Seeing as you have Toxic on Vaporeon, you may want to use Spikes on Forretress, especially, as you yourself stated, Zapdos can deal with most flyers. Spikes hits more of OU than T-Spikes, anyway, and in the ature of OU, fast switches will make Spikes damage rack up a lot quicker than T-spikes.

Other than that, I see no real issues, except, with my Spikes > TSpikes suggestion, stick with Toxic on Vaporeon.

 

[BlackLightAttack]

It looks like Dragon Dance Dragonite could be a big problem for the team, setting-up on Tyranitar locked into Earthquake. For this reason I suggest you put Scarf Stealth Rock Jirachi over your current one, here's the set:

Jirachi
Nature: Jolly
252atk/252spe/4hp
-Stealth Rock
-Iron head
-U-turn/Trick
-Ice punch
This aids your team in man handling that DD Dragonite who can Dragon Claw/Outrage everything on your team, bar Metagross and Forretress who are handled by Earthquake for the former, and Fire punch for the latter. Jirachi also lets you mess-up other stall teams and revenge choice locked Outraging Flygon.
Other Options I'd suggest would be Roar or Hidden Power Electric over Toxic on Vaporeon since you already have Toxic Spikes, and Roar and Hp Electric also aid against DDing Gyarados.
GL

I like Jirachi a whole lot, and I even use a lead Jirachi (legitimate perfect Speed IV Jolly nature) with the same EVs and almost the same moveset. I could even change the moveset (Stealth Rock/Iron Head/U-Turn/Trick, replace U-Turn with Ice Punch) and still use the same Jirachi on both teams.

If I'm going to drop Toxic on Vaporeon I'd still go with Heal Bell, which is looking like the more attractive option. Roar is already on Zapdos and, since I don't use hacks or RNG, manipulating HP is more trouble than it's worth.

 

[BlackLightAttack]

A team is not automatically semi-stall just because it sets up more than one hazard. If anything, I'd call this bulky offense. The extra hazards help make extra use of the bulkyness of the pokemon, but Zapdos, Tyranitar, Metagross, and Breloom are not stalling pokemon, and are often seen on bulkier offensive teams.


On the Metagross lead, I'd suggest dropping Explosion. I know you love explodeing leads, but Metagross just can't cut it if you're using BP. 4MSS. Metagross needs Meteor Mash to deal with flying leads, and score a harder hit on Machamps and Roserades.

If you insist on keeping explosion, Meteor Mash > Earthquake, the only noteable leads EQ hits harder than MM are other Metagross, Jirachis, Heatrans, and Swamperts, none of which cause you many problems, due to Zapdos and Vaporeon.

I'd suggest trying this set on Metagross, keeping the EV's and Nature the same:

Stealth Rock
Meteor Mash
Bullet Punch
Earthquake

If not, you could try this set instead, same EV's and Nature, again:
Stealth Rock
Meteor Mash
Bullet Punch
Explosion

Seeing as you have Toxic on Vaporeon, you may want to use Spikes on Forretress, especially, as you yourself stated, Zapdos can deal with most flyers. Spikes hits more of OU than T-Spikes, anyway, and in the ature of OU, fast switches will make Spikes damage rack up a lot quicker than T-spikes.

Other than that, I see no real issues, except, with my Spikes > TSpikes suggestion, stick with Toxic on Vaporeon.

Now this I like. I didn't consider dropping Toxic Spikes and letting Vaporeon do all the work. I do so love exploding leads, but you may be right about MM>Explosion on Leadgross.

And thanks for the correction on the team type correction, although this would definitely be played more defensively than all of my past teams.

 

[apologies]

hey, this is a really interesting team. the first thing that really pops out at me is the lack of a spin blocker. because this team relies so heavily on entry hazards a spin blocker is definitely necessary. i know the team is built around zapdos, but replacing it with rotom is definitely something to consider. i would probably use rest/sleep talk/reflect/thunderbolt, with an ev spread of 252 hp/248 def/8 spe bold. rotom also helps with your weak to taunt gyara and lead mchamp. now you lack a roarer, however, vaporeon can easily fill this hole by changing its final move to roar. vaporeons ev spread is also outdated and ineffective. i would change it to 216 def/232 spD/60 spA bold. this gives you a similar amount of physical bulk but much more special bulk and some extra power as well. forretress' moveset is a little absurd as well. i would change it to spikes/toxic spikes/rapid spin/payback or explosion. personally i would choose explosion as you already have tyranitar to pursuit ghost types. i would also change forretress' ev spread to a more specially defensive 252 hp/4 def/252 spD. this lets you set up on a LOT more pokemon and is definitely the ideal spread for forretress on any team. now that you no longer have zapdos to check lucario i would give tyranitar a choice scarf and an ev spread of 252 spe/252 atk/4 hp (same moves). since tyranitar will now be faster than lucario and resists espeed, it makes a really nice check as long as you dont switch into cc. metagross is definitely a solid lead but i dont really see how you "need" it. i would recommend changing your lead to forretress, who can easily set up on pokemon like metagross and swampert, and changing metagross to heatran. a specially defensive heatran could help you with your shaymin weakness, as well as set up stealth rocks. i would use a move set of flamethrower/earth power/roar/stealth rock and an ev spread of 252 hp/128 spe/128 spD calm. this also helps with your cm jirachi weak.
hope i helped.... god luck with your team!

 

[DankDawson]

I don't know if anyone has said this but Heatran looks like it could poke some holes in your team.
Fire Blast takes care of Metagross, Breloom, and Forretress.
EarthPower 2HKO Tyranitar
And Hp Electric/ Grass can KO a weakend Vaporeon
Fire Blast can 2HKO Zapdos.
Your only counter is Vaporeon, so once its down Heatran can potentially rip through your team.

 

[teatime1008]

I would recommend running Shed Shell on your Forretress over Leftovers, seeing as how you already have Wish support in the form of Vaporeon. Magnezone with HP Fire (which is a lot) can come in on any move your Forretress packs (unless you predict and Explode? O.O) and OHKO with HP Fire, especially since your Forretress isn't Specially Defensive.
I think Shed Shell is the better option here.

 

[BlackLightAttack]

First off, thanks to everyone who's contributed so far. I've compiled all of the suggestions and added a few new ideas of my own, now that the original team has stewed for a little bit. Giving any idea some time before you look at it again can always cause new insights to pop up. I'm going to switch things around, so even if you've already rated the team take a look back and see what's changed.

Although I won't be keeping the in-depth builds for each individual pokemon I will be keeping the original team roster for everyone to compare.

Edit:
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This does not, by any means, mean the team is done and complete. I still would love any feedback that anyone could give, and it's all been great so far.