Team Star Flare returns!

Star Flare

Red Text represents changes.

This is a revamped version of an old team, but it's been heavily changed. It's giving me a decent win rate, but I thought I'd post it here since comments and suggestions from more experienced players are welcome. (I don't play competitively all that much, and this is actually the only team I've ever made.)

Anyway, enough about me, here's the team at a glance:

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Relaxed Swampert @ Leftovers

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Torrent

EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Atk

  • Stealth Rock
  • Earthquake
  • Ice Beam
  • Roar
I've used both Tyranitar and Dragonite here, but have settled with MixPert now. I dislike suicide leads, but still needed to be able to set up rocks. Swampert provides reliable setup against most common leads, fearing only grass moves from leads like roserade/ celebi, and taunt leads such as azelf. Earthquake provides good STAB and helps it beat infernape, tyranitar and heatran, whilst ice beam hurts the dragons, gliscor, hippowdon and 2HKOs aerodactyl who will usually taunt and then only be able to set up SR. Roar is used simply because the team lacks a phazer, and can be nice for some initial scouting.

Swampert is great because it can come back later on to provide some defensive support to an otherwise offensive team, without being setup bait. Scizor can threaten the celebi swampert struggles against as long as it is wary of HP fire, but roserade and breloom leads are a pain and will nearly always send someone to sleep. Azelf can also be a little tricky as previously mentioned.
Jolly Flygon @ Choice Scarf

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Levitate

EVs: 4 HP, 252 attack, 252 speed

  • Outrage
  • Earthquake
  • U-Turn
  • Stone Edge
As much as I like Band Flygon, I changed him to scarfgon to widen starmie's options and subsequently make starmie less susceptible to revenge killing. Speaking of revenge killing, that is (clearly) this guy's job now, along with initial scouting along with scizor. The scizor/ flygon combination with U-turn is always fun: both pokes cover each other's backs resistance-wise whilst making great scouters due to U-Turn spamming. Stone Edge is there for the fliers such as Gyarados and Zapdos, outrage and earthquake are the standard STAB options.

Adamant Scizor @ Choice Band

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Technician

EVs: 248 HP, 252 attack, 8 speed

  • U-Turn
  • Bullet Punch
  • Superpower
  • Pursuit
Banded scizor is just as fearsome as ever, and as mentioned above the scizor-flygon combination can be brutal. You've all seen this set a million times before, but don't fix what isn't broken. Bullet punch provides powerful priority, superpower is his most powerful move and helps against blissey, pursuit deals with psychic and ghost types, and u-turn annoys the hell out of everything.

Timid Gengar @ Leftovers

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Levitate

EVs: 4 HP, 252 special attack, 252 speed

  • Substitue
  • Shadow Ball
  • Focus Blast
  • Pain Split
Well, that's plenty of physical coverage, but what about special? This is where gengar comes in, my favourite ghost pokemon. And no, he isn't choiced, those sorts are far too vulnerable to revenge killings in my experience. So I opted for the substitute set, as gengar can encourage many switches with its powerful unresisted ghost/ fighting coverage and handy immunities, and then hurt just about anything from behind its sub. Shadow ball takes out opposing ghosts and psychics, whilst focus blast deals with tyrannitar switch ins. Pain Split helps again with stall teams, particularly against blissey. Gengar lures in pursuit users such as Ttar and scizor, which is a great chance for lucario to set up.

Timid Starmie @ Life Orb

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Natural Cure

EVs: 4 HP, 252 special attack, 252 speed

  • Hydro Pump
  • Ice Beam
  • Thunderbolt
  • Psychic
Originally my revenge killer, this guy remains simply because he has good synergy with the rest of the team. His attacks provide great special coverage seen nowhere else hitting everything for neutral damage at least. Hydro Pump replaced Surf, despite my dislike of poor accuracy moves it's very powerful. Very few things can safely switch in on this without taking hefty damage. Psychic is used as secondary STAB as rapid spin is rarely need on this team, and starmie hardly gets a chance to recover when its stats are distributed offensively. It doesn't hit much, but it does prove useful against machamp at least, who can give this team some trouble.

Adamant Lucario @ Life Orb

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Inner Focus

EVs: 252 Atk, 252 speed , 6 HP
  • Swords Dance
  • Close Combat
  • ExtremeSpeed
  • Crunch
One problem I noticed whilst laddering was how easily this team was walled. It needed a setup sweeper. Lucario often comes in late game once I'm sure of my opponent's team and have weakened it. Swords Dance setup is just brilliant, as not much can take life orb boosted hits off 700 attack, though I've considered a Jolly nature to outspeed certain things such as all Rotom. The moveset is fairly standard though, extremespeed providing powerful priority against anything faster than it, whilst close combat wrecks...well, anything, even skarmory. Crunch hits the ghosts, but not outspeeding rotom is a problem.

That's all I got. Please offer any advice you can, it's much appreciated. =)
 
I will say that your team is quite strong and looks like it covers most threats very well. Sub Baitgar is the new metagame as there isn't much that it can't 2hko in the standard metagame of scizor-ttar-gyara-salamence.

Scarf Jirachi is a problem for your team, switching in on scizor, and he can put a lot of hurt on your swichins with ice punch or thunderpunch if you predict poorly. Gyarados, despite your pure counter in starmie, is a serious threat when paired with a good pursuiter like t-tar that can switch in on your thunderbolt; this is a very common pairing as well. Ttar is a threat to an awful lot of your pokes.

The last major thing is your lack of stealth rocks preventing the most dangerous pokemon in ou, dd salamence, from mauling you. Same with gyara. Though your team is well prepared to handle both threats, all they have to do is attack once, switch, and wear you down. Still, I think this team is easily a 1300+ team, and counters most common threats exceptionally well through power, baits and unpredictability.
 
I recommend running Hydro Pump over Surf on Starmie. Starmie's Sp.Att is not to great compared to other Sp.attackers, especially since it is not running life orb. Also LO Jolteon really wrecks your team if your starmie is down. A combination of CS/CB Tyranitar and an LO Jolteon w/ hp ice can put your team in a tough position. CBTar takes (49.3% - 58.8%) from surf and can OHKO back with pursuit. Then jolteon can come in and wreck your team since you have nothing to out-speed it. Therefore I possibly reccomend replacing CB Flygon with CS.
 
^Funny you should say that, I just had a rough time against an LO jolteon. The CB boost can be very useful though... :/ I'll try it out anyway to see how much I miss it. Re hydro pump: I'm also not a fan of low accuracy moves, but again it's not a huge change and I had considered testing it out anyway.

Thanks for your comments technomaster as well, I'm aiming for 1400 before I finally move on to a different team, since I couldn't quite reach it before. :) Again, I have considered SR on skarm, but then spikes are rarer and give him something to do. Generally I've handled gyara and salamence well, but tyrannitar can be a pain...
 
There is like no reason to run Scarf on Starmie and Band on Flygon. Choice Band Flygon doesn't capitalize on its resistances like the Scarf variant does. Additionally, you said it yourself, Jolteon gives this team hell. Change the Band to a Scarf please, it will take care of your Jolteon troubles and give you a solid revenge killer.

Since I recommended Flygon take the Scarf, I'd turn Starmie into a LO variant with Recover over Trick. This gives you a solid special attacker without being automatic 'Pursuit bait' for Tyranitar and Scizor, especially Scizor (Scarf Tyranitar will kill you regardless anyway).

The biggest issue with this team is the lack of Stealth Rock. That is an absolute necessity, and you don't have it on this team. Change the lead Dragonite to Heatran. Similar resistances and the ability to use Stealth Rock will help your team out tremendously. Heatran is a sort of anti-lead in its own right, being able to beat Metagross, Swampert (if you opt for HP Grass over Explosion), and Azelf with ease. You lose out to Aerodactyl, but you can easily revenge-kill with Flygon.

Last thing. Your team is pretty stall weak. I'd recommend running Pain Split over HP Fire on Gengar. Eases your problem to Blissey especially.
 
Oh, of course... the flygon thing makes sense. I forgot about starmie's CS. >_> That does make things easier... should I run a jolly nature on him then or adamant?

As far as SR is concerned I'd much rather just place it on skarmory. As shallow as this sounds I just don't like heatran as a pokemon, and both dragonite and skarmory work well for me. I'm trying to keep the balance of pokes I like and pokes that are viable competitively.

Pain Split is definitely an interesting option for gengar, although this would leave me with little fire coverage which could be worrying considering how dominant steel types are. =/

Thanks for the advice. =)

I've been thinking, perhaps a tyranitar lead may be useful? A lot of the battles he loses (metagross, bronzong, swampert, mamoswine) are easy oppurtunities to switch in skarmory and I'd have SR support. Furthermore, sandstorm works well with my team in that case, as only 2 teammates would be affected, one of which has leftovers.
 
One last bump... =( I broke through in the end, and I'm at 1350ish CRE now. It's a fairly solid offensive core mostly but I'm still noticing problems, mostly with stall teams, and I'm not exactly sure who to replace/ rework. Pain split gengar sounds like a good idea but then I'd lose my only fire coverage...

Also, sorry about the sprites. Bulbapedia seems to be down.
 
I've made some pretty significant changes, so is it okay to bump this once more? I really would appreciate some criticism, although I have finally reached the 1400 mark. ^_^
 
Wow, VERY solid team. Although your Physical to Special attack balance is a bit off. I recommend Nasty Plot infernape, Because he is faster than Luke, and has acces to a wider movepool, and still has priority in the form of vacuum wave.
 
Mooo said:
Wow, VERY solid team. Although your Physical to Special attack balance is a bit off. I recommend Nasty Plot infernape, Because he is faster than Luke, and has acces to a wider movepool, and still has priority in the form of vacuum wave.
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Ummm...how does NP Ape help him at all? Infernape is very frail and cant really do much without proper team support. In addition what does movepool and speed have to do with anything? Lucario has all the moves it needs to be an excellent late game sweeper, and doesn't really need much speed due to ES. Please explain your post more rather then "more moves more speed= better" because that is certainly not true. Also it is normally be better (not always) to have more physical sweepers then special, because Blissey walls all special attackers, bar explosion and sets built to be able to handle Blissey, while there is no Blissey of physical walls.
 
Indeed, I pretty much have two special attackers and two physical attackers, while lucario becomes so powerful after a swords dance he can break through physical walls anyway bar certain counters, which the rest of the team aims to lure out and defeat. Gliscor won't have fun against gengar or swampert and is OHKO'd by starmie, salamence and gyarados are also taken care of by starmie and flygon if they've been weakened a little, and gengar is outsped and OHKO'd by starmie and obviously trapped by scizor, scarfed rotoms are similarly trapped.
 
Ugh, I just can't break the 1400ish range. :/ Pain Split definitely seems like the superior option on gengar, as with a life orb he actually hits everything 1x weak to fire harder with the appropriate neutral attack, and can take care of some walls too (especially that asshole blissey). In fact, the only common things he won't fare so well against are scizor and forretress. BUT, I feel like I need fire coverage, and no one on my team at the moment has decent fire options. So I should replace someone perhaps, but I don't know who... all of them play their part. Any help would be appreciated. @_@
 
Go with TOF's suggestion of a Lead-Heatran.

Heatran@Shuca Berry
Nature: Timid/Naive (if you opt for Explosion)
6 Def, 252 SpA, 252 Spd
- Fireblast
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- {Grass}/Taunt/Will-o-Wisp/Explosion

This Heatran gives you a solid Fireuser, a better offensive Lead against Stall teams than Swampert, and presents itself as a Threat to Stall teams with Taunt/Explosion and a threat to more offensive inclined teams with {Grass}/WoW.
Alternatively you can use Specstran with SR - nice against Machampleads.

Lastly it gives you a solid answer to Rotom-A - something you lack beforehand.

Now you are free to use Pan Split and LO on Gengar.

I also dont like Psychic on Starmie and suggest you replace it with Recover, which is more useful overall. If you really think you need Psychic then forego Ice Beam - Salamence cant set up on Starmie anyways because he suffers a 2hko from Hydro Pump/TB after SR and you have plenty of answers against Grasstypepokemon.
 
In order to help with stall, change HP Fire to Pain Split, move the 4 HP to def, and give gengar life orb. Blissey can no longer wall you, as pain split brings blissey to the point where focus blast 2HKOs. Pain split has more PP than wish (twice). This also gives you more power with the life orb. Scizor is actually 2HKOd by focus blast, but the sub still gives you a safe switch out. This gengar is basically impossible to wall, even with blissey.
 
Yeah, I thought someone would say that. My only concern would be the lack of a phazer if I use heatran. Not sure how much of a problem this would be, though I guess the only way to find out is to test it out. @_@

EDIT: Yes, I'm definitely going with pain split gengar Eggbert. Looks so much better than HP Fire. :)
 
HP Fire is kind of bleh on Gengar to be honest, and his attack without LO can mean he misses on those KOs, resulting in his death.

Try the Pain Split/Sub/Shadow Ball/Focus Blast version, does more than well enough. Sub when Scizor comes in, you use Focus Blast, dealing (63.16% - 74.61%) [248 HP variant], if he uses Bullet Punch, you have a free switch really, if he uses Pursuit, you finish him off with Shadow Ball.
 
Re: Starmie, I tried recover and just didn't find enough oppurtunities to use it on such an offensive set. I certainly wouldn't want to lose ice beam...

Tried out pain split gengar, and I'm liking it. It's much fiercer with a life orb, and doesn't need an imperfect speed IV. Gonna try out leadtran tomorrow, despite not liking heatran. >_> It does look like it compliments my team better. Thanks for the suggestions everyone.
 
I suggest replacing substitute if not something for protect on the Gengar as you're getting killed if a CB Scizor bullet punches you, if you have protect you can see the move and react accordingly with an HP Fire or a switch (although once they see the protect they are going to think HP fire so maybe you're better off predicting the switch with a shadow ball).

EDIT: Actually since substitute is so useful you may consider taking out HP Fire for Protect as once they see it they're anticipating the HP Fire and you could use it as a nice trick, I've never tried it, could be interesting, I enjoy run on sentences.
 
Eh, I'm happy with the pain split set for now. Protect and sub seems a little overkill, and it's nice to be able to defeat those annoying blissey.

Heatran is pretty eh. It defeats more common leads than swampert (it's nice to have an answer to azelf) but new problems are appearing... I have no reliable resistance to water attacks since they're a pretty frail bunch. Swampert at least has the defenses to take some of those hits. Heatran also doesn't make a very good phazer, and I now lack a reliable switch in to gliscor, who gives a lot of my team trouble (again, starmie doesn't have the defenses to switch in on EQs). Not sure what to do... @_@
 
Actually, another option for Starmie's fourth attack could be Grass Knot, kitting opposing Swampert, Suicune, Vaporeon, and the occasional Milotic. A Grass-Type attack might be more helpful in the OU environment then a Psychic one.
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure Flygon is a reliable switch to Gliscor.

ANOTHER option would be to replace Starmie with Bulky DD Gyara. It has much of the same synergy, but it's bulky (like in the name) enough to take bulky waters. If ya want, you can bounce for Machamp.
 
Flygon can't touch gliscor, he's way too weak. :/

Gyarados and heatran work quite well together, it looks like, so that would make sense, but starmie's like the most threatening member of the team, I don't want to replace it...

I'd better read up more on Gyara. As for GK, that only hits swampert... thunderbolt is only 5 BP lower vs suicune and milotic, and it's superior against vaporeon. Hydro Pump is still a 2HKO on swampert. Honestly, I'm happy with starmie as it is, it has perfect coverage and poses a threat to nearly everything either with super effective hits or the sheer power of hydro pump.
 
@ Darkamber8828: Flygon can switch into most of Gliscor's moves (sans Toxic) but it can't do anything back. The Gliscor will most likely just stay in and hit back with Toxic, or predict the U-turn with another Earthquake or a U-turn of its own. His Gengar, on the other hand, is actually a decent switch to the now-standard stallbreaker variant, since it usually carries Toxic and Earthquake, both of which Gengar is immune to. Just be wary of switching into Taunt since you won't be able to set up a Sub or heal if you do.

Also, Thunderbolt is actually 50BP weaker against both Suicune and Milotic (Thunderbolt hits for 190BP and Grass Knot hits for 240BP), though you're right about it being better on vappy. Grass Knot hits both for 120BP. You wouldn't really be able to switch Starmie directly into Machamp anyway, and revenging it usually means it has taken some damage which in turn means Hydro Pump will most likely take it down. In my experience, Recover is usually more helpful to mitigate residual damage or just to stall Blissey (mostly for scouting purposes; you still lose to it in the long run), but it's your call. It also helps with your current problem with water attacks; it'll let Starmie switch into weak ones repeatedly.

I'm not sure if you're still running Pursuit on Scizor or not, but if you are then consider running an EV spread of 176 HP / 100 Atk / 232 SpD to better trap those Psychics/Ghosts/whatever, since they usually use special attacks. You don't lose too much attacking power and you still have Flygon, so IMO it's a pretty good trade-off.

Definitely make your Lucario Jolly if you're using Crunch. One of the main reasons to use it is Rotom-A anyway.
 
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