The artist formerly known as An Finsceal

[MacG]

Its now nearly two weeks since starting to battle on Shoddy, and my form has fluctuated greatly from day to day. One day, I may win around 90% of my games, whereas another I might fail to win very many at all.

This is the team I am currently using. Until lately it was almost unbeatable. The reson for this I do not know, but in the last while it is losing around half the time. I am writing this to see if anyone has any suggestions on how to improve the team/ counter its weaknesses. I would appreciate any help as I believe I can work with the basis of this team to achieve a higher CRE.

Changes in bold

THE ANTI-LEAD:

Gallade@ Lum Berry
Ability: Steadfast
Adamant nature
244 HP/ 252 Att/ 12 Spe

Shadow Sneak
Swords Dance
Ice Punch
Close Combat​

Came across this guy first on wifi, never seemed as good as my Dragonite until one time I was KO'd by one carrying Ice Punch. Decided to give it a try, turns out not many people know how to deal with it. Gallade used to have leaf blade, but I repaced it by ice punch once I realised it only hit Swampert, which CC can 2hko anyway. Ice punch instead hits Dragonite/Gliscor/Aerodactyl. Pretty standard apart from that I think...

This deals with most common leads excelently.

Hide

Swampert: Close Combat
Heatran: Switch to my heatran for the Overheat or stay in and Close Combat
Machamp: Zen headbutt for OHKO
Aerodactyl: Ice punch, then shadow sneak
Dragonite: Ice punch
Gliscor: Ice punch
Roserade: This is tricky. Usually switch to Skarmory to take the sleep. Then switch back and ice punch/zen headbutt followed by shadow sneak
Azelf: Shadow sneak for the 2hko. If they use reflect, I switch to Skarmory.
Metagross: Close combat, 2hko
Bronzong: Close combat, 2hko
UXIE: No clue what to do, help needed.

The entry hazard dispenser:

​

Skarmory@ Occa Berry
Ability: Keen Eye
Careful Nature
252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 SpD

Stealth Rock
Spikes
Brave Bird
Whirlwind​

Well this is a specially defensive version of the steel bird, and she usually does her job as needed. My team really benefits from the support she provides, ensuring a lot of KO's late game. Stealth Rock instead of toxic because I prefer the instant damage while sweeping with luke/cune. I use occa berry as it always gives me a chance to get another layer of spikes down, or if I'm against Infernape, KO with brave bird. I don't know if my team is in desperate need of a mon like this, or if I should switch it out for something else. Roost is quite a redundant move on this set and is only used when against a wish/protect vaporeon. I still dont know whether or not to keep Skarmory or not...

The Revenge Killa:

Heatran@ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Naive nature
4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe

Fire Blast
Earth Power
Stealth Rock
Explosion​

The customary scarfer of the team and quite a good sweeper in its own right. All my teams usually have a scarf starmie with hydro pump, however this Heatran proves to be a formidable replacement. I didn't need another water type on my team in any case. After stealth rock and spikes damage, fire blast can KO those who resist it aswell. Earth power is for opposing heatran and infernape. I chose HP grass over ice as I had dropped Leaf Blade from Gallade and needed some assurance against Swampert/ Starmie. Explosion is quite useful in some situations, however when I am distracted it usually just gets me killed as they protect/switch to Rotom. I may change this to dragon pulse to deal with kingdra and give him a modest nature...


The special sweeper:

**Lord of Dogtown
​

Suicune@ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Timid Nature
32 HP/ 252 SpA/ 224Spe

Calm Mind
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Electric​

Offensive Cune holding lefties is one of my favourite pokes. He can take hits like a champ while getting in a calm mind. It takes down so many of the biggest threats in the game. Those that it doesn't hit for SE damage are hit hard with hydro pump. The main reason I use hydro pump over the standard surf is to hit things I wont be able to set up on harder. Cune just works so well that I don't think it is in need of repacement.

The Spin-Blocker:

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Rotom-F@ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Bold nature
252 HP/ 168 Def/ 88 Spe

Substitute
Pain Split
Shadow Ball
Thunderbolt​

A welcome change from Wifi is the addition of Rotom-A onto my teams. This sub-split Rotom is working quite well, soaking up electric, ground, fighting, explosion and setting up accordingly. I may switch to Rotom-H and give it Overheat> Substitute. Help on this would be appreciated. One of its main jobs is coming in on DD Gyarados and KO with TBolt before it sets up enough to sweep. My team needs a spin blocker, so I would like to hear any possible changes to this setup from you knowledgeable folk.


The surprisingly bulky aura Pokemon:

​

Lucario@ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
Jolly Nature
4 HP/ 252 Att/ 252 Spe

Swords Dance
Crunch
Extremespeed
Close Combat​

This is my final sweeper. Don't think anybody would have seen this set before, at least I hadn't...

This is the strategy: Come in on resisted attack. Swords dance as they switch, swords dance again as they usually attack with earthquake/earth power. Then begin priority sweeping. I know this set won't be to everybodys tastes, but it can work like magic. Its biggest counter is Rotom, and oftentimes it is one of the appliances that prematurely ends my streak. I would really like to hear some thoughts on this particular set, and not just: Oh, go back to 252 att/ 252 spe and give it crunch, this set is just a terrible version of SD Luke, etc.


Well that is the team, it is lingering around 1300 at the minute. I really enjoyed using it and any feedback would be great.

FINAL LOOK:

Also, Skarmory was replaced by:

Jirachi@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Jolly nature
252 Att/ 4 SpD/ 252 Spe

Iron Head
Trick
Fire Punch
Thunder Punch

Rotom was replaced by:

Gengar@ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Timid nature
4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe

Substitute
Pain Split
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
​

 

[bearsfan092]

Is that the most optimal defensive spread with 252 Atk for Lucario? What sort of hits do you want to take (ie special/physical attacks, specific enemies you want to set up on)?

 

[MacG]

Well the EV's are there usually to survive flygon's earthquake, which it has done every time. It then KO's it back with extremespeed. This is still meant to have all the attacking power of SD Luke, but since I am using 2 priority moves I do not need the speed EV's. I only use close combat for Blissey/Skarmory/Snorlax, things I am faster than anyway. I swords dance on the switch aswell. But I can give it a try and see how it works. 252 HP/ 252 Def / 4 SpD with an Impish nature?

 

[jc104]

Try Swords Dance over Zen Headbutt and Lum berry over LO on Gallade. You can OHKO Swampert with a +2 CC, which means that you end up at +2 and only have 1 CC drop. +2 CC also OHKOes Machamp, and you are immune to Dynamicpunch confusion thanks to Lum berry. The lum berry also lets you beat Roserade and Smeargle.

Take Occa berry off skarm. The one layer of extra spikes you may get as a on-off is not worth the overall longevity provided by leftovers, or the ability to escape Magnezone provided by Shed Shell.

Good luck.

 

[ginganinja]

Yea I don't see why you need all those EVs in HP on Lucario. with no EVs and Shuca you still survive an Earthquake so you may as run max speed. Personally I don't like SHuca on Lucario since you are losing out on the power of LO. Also you don't actualy KO Flygon with a +2 Extreme Speed (including SR) without LO unless I have done my Calcs wrong (which may be possiable lol)
Also since you state that Rotom is annoying to this team why not run a Scarf Tar over your Scarf Tran since you can then trap and KO Rotom (manly Scarf and Speced ones but still. This way Lucario can sweep easier.

tl;dr
Scarf Tar over Scarf Tran
drop Occa on Skarm for Shed Shell or Leftovers
Move the 252 HP EVs on Lucario back into attack since I don't believe they are doing much (since Shuca lets you survive Flygon's Earthquake regardless)
Consider LO on Lucario to get extra KO's.

Have a Nice Day!

 

[MacG]

Thank you for the suggestions:

@jc104:
I will switch zen headbutt for swords dance on gallade and give it a lum berry definately. I'll let you know how it goes.
However, Skarmory is usually there to get down entry hazards and then die. Also to take down infernape. I do not keep it alive for very long anyway. I will possibly change roost for whirlwind...


@ginganinja:
I have never been a great fan of scarftar, however I will try it out just to deal with rotom. I think this is just to take him down as he switches with pursuit, since fire blast will KO him anyway.

As for Luke, I just dont see the need for speed EV's. The added HP adds to his good typing to take hits well. And with flygon, I can get up to +4, not +2 so it does KO. I would like to keep trying this particular set anyway.


Finally, I may put WoW/ Overheat on Rotom to see how it works, but I like using Sub to block status and get in another attack. I'm just not too sure what to do about this...

 

[Faladran]

Hi MacG,

Looking over the team, I can see that fast sweepers (Gengar, Starmie, Infernape) can cause your team trouble.

You're also using Lucario as your late game sweeper, so entry hazards are not a neccesity. Lucario has enough firepower to get the KO's he needs without Spikes support.

Skarmory has a bit too much to do, considering that he has to set up both hazards while finding opportunities to switch in, all without the help of Whirlwind to phaze threats away.

Try switching to standard lead ShucaTran instead of using Scarf Heatran:

Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive (+Spe, -SpD)
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock

Anti-lead Gallade is quite similar to Machamp in terms of lead matchups, so Heatran synergizes very well with both. Shuca Berry protects you from enemy ground attacks, while the moveset allows you to maintain offensive power and set up Stealth Rock when needed.

In place of Skarmory, try out a Choice Scarf Jirachi. It's the best revenge killer in OU, and can definitely save you from several threats, including opposing Gyarados, Tyranitar and Lucario:

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Iron Head
- Thunderpunch
- Fire Punch
- Trick

With Jirachi alone, you have several threats covered. Trick can be used to force a Choice Scarf onto stat-uppers that your team has trouble with, such as Kingdra or opposing Suicune. U-Turn is also a good alternative for hitting Starmie if they get to be a problem.

Since there's not a need to block Rapid Spin now, but having immunities to Ground, Fighting, and Normal attacks is useful, consider Sub + Pain Split Gengar over Rotom:

Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spe/252 SpA
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Pain Split
- Substitute

Gengar's speed and sweeping prowess are usefull, and it serves as a great check to opposing Infernape. Keep in mind that it plays similar to the Rotom set you're currently using, just with more firepower and less bulk.

Definitely switch out Lucario's item from Shuca Berry to Life Orb. It's a good thought, but Lucario is too frail to take most attacks, and Life Orb is absolutely necessary to secure many important KO's.

Good luck with your team!

 

[ginganinja]

Sorry I have been unclear. when I suggested the possability of LO I was also suggesting 252 Speed as well. Currently Flygon is OHKO'ing you with Earthquake without Shuca.
So since you want to run this "bulky(?)" Lucario run Shuca and then run 252 Speed since as stated above the HP Evs are not realy letting you survive much of note. Seriously Lucario has base 70/70/70 defences. Heck Azelf is bulkier naturally than Lucario. You stated that you don't feel the need for speed EVs on Lucario. I beg to differ.Most things are outrunning your Lucario with ease thus anything that does not take much from a Extreme Speed will beat you. Also you get outspead by Heatran who can Fire Blast your arse which taking bullshit from Bullet Punch and Extremespeed. I could be wrong but don't you want to outrun Heatran, Metagross, Magnezone, and a host of other things. Basically with the amount of speed you run you get to +4, kill Flygon (if you run Shuca) while having your Shuca berry broken. Then you die to Metagross/Magnezone/Heatran/anything that can take an Extremespeed/Bullet Punch (which is pretty much every steel type). Basically I really think that you need to run speed on Lucario since the HP Evs don't realy do anything.

Tell me what the Evs on HP actually do that shuca does not already cover and I will consder dropping this speed/Hp agrument. however I just don't see what hits you can take which such pathetic defences.

Tl;dr (please do read above though)
Put Shuca back on Lucario (since you don't want to make it the traditional SD'er)
take away the HP Evs on Lucario

Have a Nice Day!

 

[tobi10]

I don´t know why you want to survive Flygon´s Earthquake when a boosted Extremspeed OHKOs him most of the time after two Stealth Rock switch-ins; like the people before me said, it is not worth getting outsped by Pokemon that are easily dealt by otherwise, like Zone and Metagross. I know you don´t want to hear this, but it is the best option for your team.

Good Luck!

 

[MacG]

Ok Ok you are both right, I see that now after losing to heatran/lucario several times...

I will revert back to the usual spread immediately. Might even keep LO.

However, by adding jirachi I have yet another ground weakness. This is where flygon really hurts my team even more so now.

The addition of Gengar has really helped, and the added firepower is very useful. With the only drawback being losing an electric resist...

 

[Philip7086]

Rating on request (sorry it took me two days to do so... I've been busy).

So it looks like you have already made quite a few big changes to this team since it was posted, and I think the changes made look pretty good. There are a few things you still need to watch out for, though. The first thing, which you caught already, is that powerful Electrics really rip through your team. Jolteon and to a lesser extent Zapdos will pretty much take out your whole team by themselves. A quick fix without changing much of your team is to switch Choice Scarf Jirachi to Choice Scarf Flygon, with U-turn, Outrage / Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Thunderpunch. This allows you to keep Dragon Dancers in check (especially Kingdra and Dragonite, who your current Jirachi cannot stop) while providing you with a way to safely beat Jolteon, and an immunity to Electric which should provide you more freedom in switching (while also giving you another Ground immune instead of a Ground weak). Keep in mind that Flygon still doesn't beat Zapdos, but when combined with Gengar, Heatran, and Gallade, you should be able to KO it after some weakening. With the loss of Trick, though, you lose the ability to stop Calm Mind sweepers, and stall looks like it would give you a lot of trouble. To help with this, I would like to suggest that you change your Suicune to a Bold 252 HP / 252 Def Suicune with the moves: Calm Mind, Rest, Surf, Roar. With that set, you will be able to set up alongside other Calm Minders, and then Roar them away before they can cause you any harm. This set also demolishes stall teams who rarely have a phazer faster than Suicune, and cannot beat you if you're the last Pokemon left. Finally, this set should help you by giving you extra bulk to throw around for pesky Agility sweepers, which you can phaze while taking a hit. The other check you lose by changing Jirachi to Flygon, is Lucario. However, Gengar is a decent check to Lucarios without Bullet Punch, and Flygon is a decent check to Lucarios without Extremespeed, so you should be okay if you play those Pokemon conservatively. Worst case scenario, you can always push for a speed tie with your own Lucario, who is Jolly.

Good luck with the team.

 

[NeoSeth]

Someone said to use ScarfTar to revenge Rotom, and that's a pretty solid idea. Finding a way to lure them out with Gallade or something to let Tyrannitar trap them early would be great. Your current Lucario set OHKOs Rotom with Crunch, which is great, but the Choice variants out-speed you and hit you with either a Burn or a super-effective attack. I suppose Heatran's a good check to getting nailed by Rotom-H and Will-O-Whisps in general, but removing them early is a major boon. I don't like the obviousness of Scarftar, and the fact that Pursuit still doesn't OHKO defensive Rotom, but since +2 Crunch on Luke does that anyway, Scarftar can work for your team. Just beware tricky players staying in to burn you and Resting the damage away, which is what bulky Rotom SHOULD do when they see a Scarftar. Whether they do or don't is up to them. There's also CBtar, but no one seems to like him any more...

I agree with Phil and say that replacing Jirachi with Flygon is a great idea. I feel like he hit all the points necessary.

I'll have to try Shuca Luke, sounds useful, though I'll probably try running one with both Agility and Swords Dance, to outspeed Gliscor and OHKO with something, since +4 Extremespeed doesn't do the job.

 

[IronBullet]

Hey,

After all the big changes implemented, I think you're left with what is, a very solid team. Definitely going to second Philip's suggestion of a Scarfgon over Jirachi, Jolteon simply runs through this team without a resist.

Changing Suicune to a defensive CMer would work fine I guess, but I suggest replacing Suicune with a Wish Vaporeon. Vappy provides excellent team support by healing your sweepers, none of which pack reliable recovery. Vaporeon can also use Roar, which helps out greatly with setup sweepers if you're not too sure about switching in Flygon directly. It's also great for racking up hazard damage. Most importantly, though, it gives you a solid counter to SubSplit Gengar. If it gets a Sub up, it's taking down atleast one of your Pokemon. The set is Surf/Roar/Wish/Protect with EVs of 252 Def/232 Sp Def/20 HP with a Bold nature. Stall doesn't really trouble you too much considering you now have Wish support + Sub Split Gengar + SD Lucario.

Nice team, and gl!