I'm bowing out early tonight because I have to get up at 4:30 am. But I am completely fine with lynching Light tomorrow after rereading him talking rings around Hitmon like his own patter is proof positive of a catch.
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NOC The Mafia Invitational Redux Game Thread - GAME OVER
- Thread starter Lrr
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the irony
quote the post where he does ?
day 4 he was on AG iirc ?
that first sentence is pretty
worthyI don't give a fuck about your wifom justifications I want you to stop ignoring the posts where I call you out for spending day 4 in a tunnel bubble without looking at the other wagon which you have claimed to seriously suspect or even showing an intent to solve the game by associating a Leet scum flip with other people. Pushing Leet D4 looked bad but it's not the reason I'm pressing you today so stop pretending it is.
That's literally not true town can screw up and say incorrect things too that's pretty much half of your defense
You can't honestly say I didn't propose an argument he was refusing to respond in the first place. What do you expect me to do, drop my push on him when I think he is scummy because he refused to acknowledge any of my points after my first damn reply to him. You yourself were consistently pointing out how much he willingly avoided the thread and used it as part of your reasoning, so just because you worded it differently in the end it still boiled down to his refusal to engage me among many other things. Was my way to get him to engage me perfect? No, but if I didn't keep calling attention to his consistent ditching and call it scummy most of the thread would have just let him do it. Yes I was wrong about him, but never was given a chance by him to change my mind about him either.
If you want to prove something is ironic it'd help if you put out what makes it ironic.
In both he expresses a dislike of Hitmon based on his Asek reread, but it does actually say that if AG flips town look at epik instead(that being said does not mention why AG scum means DLE or why it doesn't mean Hitmon)
This is where he proposes DLExMe day 4, to which I quoted AG's reaction, follow the link it's quite interesting.
The first sentence where I'm disappointed that instead of Hitmon discussing my arguments he tries to justify that I can be scum and make solely arguments with are true and town would make?(cough you are literally arguing I haven't a done a single towny thing while pushing Hitmon, ergo you yourself if correct have proved Hitmon wrong) There is nothing that I hate more than people saying something is bad without attempting to justify it. Justify that smiley on my first sentence there, I double dare you.that first sentence is pretty
Firstly that's inherently wrong, I told you why I pushed Leet, it's because I suspected him the most. The end, what other justification do I need to push my suspect beyond pushing my suspect? I made no theories as to who Leet's final scumbuddy would be or if he flipped town where I would go, so what? Yes I didn't do those things and all you did with that was ask me why I didn't, and when I told you why I didn't you point at me saying it's WIFOM I did it because I am scum. So yes you are exactly doing what Knights is accusing me of doing, Burden of Proof. I cannot justify any of the stuff you are questioning me off, because the answer always boils down to a wifom, I can tell you in detail why I did what I did, but that's a WIFOM. I haven't dodged a single question of you, you will be hardpressed to find a 10 posts of yours I didn't quote and reply to. Let me make things clear:
GUYS I THOUGHT LEET WAS SCUM SO I PUSHED HIM BECAUSE IF I PUSH HIM I PUT PRESSURE ON HIM AND THEN I CAN CONVINCE OTHERS OF MY THINKING EASIER. I DIDN'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT ANYONE ELSE BECAUSE I WAS CONVINCED I CAUGHT HITMON AND IF I DIDN'T OUT HIM NO ONE WOULD. SO I SPENT 2 DAYS TRYING TO GET HIM LYNCHED OR KILLED AT NIGHT TO RESOLVE HIS ALIGNMENT AND CLEAR ANY DOUBTS. THE END.
I'm done fucking entertaining your stupidity Moody, you clearly haven't even done a reread of at the very least Former, if not more despite being in a situation where if you lynch me and I flip town you have to fucking acknowledge that I was suspecting Former from a purely town view. Ignoring that this is the exact time when people should review every fact and get themselves caught up on what everyone still alive has done. Instead you have been solely obsessing with me and have not proposed any alternates. After all you have been jabbing at Knights but that is it, you barely touched upon Epik even if it's suggested that's where you'd be looking next. Maybe take your own advice and your own views of the ideal town play and look into the people you will have to suspect if you are wrong about me. Unless you put forth something productive I am ignoring it. I will do an ISO of Former then lynch myself, I suggest you use that time to research shit. LightWolf out.
Day 3 you stated that depending on which way Asek would flip you'd then go for X or Y
Then you tell me that trying to make pre-flip implications is just not your play style and that I'm an idiot for assuming that blatantly refusing to look at a wagon in relation to another and to make conjectures from the wagon you're pushing is not towny behavior.
You completely ignored some posts I've made where I pointed that out, prompting me to repeat myself at like three times to get it addressed, when I'm now supposed to believe that I was misrepresenting you by doing that yet that you waited for me to grow impatient with my call-outs before you responded. Since you claim that I'm using player meta and self projecting too much here's what self projection makes me think of that : a towny annoyed that they're being misrepresented doesn't sidestep issues multiple times but rather makes an angry post about how I'm full of shit.
Even now you are still half dodging my problems with you by going on a rant about your reasons for pushing Leet when that's just not what I'm calling you out for.
Quote the posts I ignored, I double dare you.
Also when stating I don't like to preflip guess I specifically mention I only did that one when asked to do so. Also that's not a logical argument you made there. "assuming that blatantly refusing to look at a wagon in relation to another and to make conjectures from the wagon you're pushing is not towny behavior." is not a logical conclusion to me preflipping asek then claiming I don't like to preflip. You didn't even directly make the argument that it's scummy I contradict myself and instead imply that your reasons for suspecting me are indeed that in your tiny town world town does preflip analysis, and I didn't conform to it, or tell me the quoted part can be read any other way? You are pushing me for not playing like you want me to play, it's so blatant and it has as I said before become pointless to argue against you, you are no making new points and at this point I explained my thought proccess on p much everything I did, I'm just gonna post quotes to show how many circles you are going in.
I'm pushing you for having a D4 play devoid of any indication that you care about the bigger picture / what AG being both super shady and the opposed wagon to Leet means
Then systematically misrepresenting the accusations made against you for those reasons as being a tunnel motivated by you pushing a mislynch, then by you not conforming to my standards of play when in reality you have made completely wifomy and nonsensical statements while defending yourself, time and time again. Your D5 defense has just been awful and in fact I do associate town Lightwolf with caring about the integrity and logical validity of an argument. That is simply not the case here when you've been resorting to utter bs for the best part of two day cycles.
You DID make me repeat myself multiple times and I had to pressure you to even get a stance on AG (the main wagon that day) from you, just like you dismissed my post where I said Leet had been pushed by two scum so far and defended by EVERY night killed town with this
You've pushed Leet for wifom while looking like you were trying really hard not to tilt your head and look at AG
Then systematically misrepresenting the accusations made against you for those reasons as being a tunnel motivated by you pushing a mislynch, then by you not conforming to my standards of play when in reality you have made completely wifomy and nonsensical statements while defending yourself, time and time again. Your D5 defense has just been awful and in fact I do associate town Lightwolf with caring about the integrity and logical validity of an argument. That is simply not the case here when you've been resorting to utter bs for the best part of two day cycles.
You DID make me repeat myself multiple times and I had to pressure you to even get a stance on AG (the main wagon that day) from you, just like you dismissed my post where I said Leet had been pushed by two scum so far and defended by EVERY night killed town with this
instead of stopping for one second and looking at the other wagon on someone you had called highly suspicious.
You've pushed Leet for wifom while looking like you were trying really hard not to tilt your head and look at AG
Also you comparing your Leet tunnel with the d1 tunnel on Proph and citing it as justification that other townies have tunneled without making preflip associations before is complete bs you can't seriously be claiming that a D1 shot-in-the-dark wagon is the same as pushing a guy who's been defended by every flipped villager and pushed by every scum, WHILE not theorizing that him flipping red (surely you thought that was what would happen ?) would make X look better and Y look worse this was not D1 this was when we were one mislynch away from lylo get fucking real. You've made some wifom nonsense claim that you expected to die last night (lol) well then if we had ended up in such a situation we would have had no legacy or solve from you unlike Yeti for instance.
tl dr you are full of shit
tl dr you are full of shit
You know what, I'm giving you one last chance MoodyCloud since if I have to suicide while pushing Former, then I might as well clear you, and then smidgen of a chance still exists you will see reason.
Make a big post summarizing all your claims, all your arguments why I am scum. Explain everything in detail so I can without a doubt tell what what your arguments actually are. Separate every thought into different paragraphs, even if derivative from one another so I can tell where one ends and a new one begins. Quote any relevant posts of mine when referring to them. I will to the best of my ability address all of it, and if even after you are still stuck on calling out my wifoms with wifoms and claiming my playstyle is inherently scummy then I will lynch myself(granted that I at the time finish my FH ISO, once both happen and you keep pushing, I will end it)
Make a big post summarizing all your claims, all your arguments why I am scum. Explain everything in detail so I can without a doubt tell what what your arguments actually are. Separate every thought into different paragraphs, even if derivative from one another so I can tell where one ends and a new one begins. Quote any relevant posts of mine when referring to them. I will to the best of my ability address all of it, and if even after you are still stuck on calling out my wifoms with wifoms and claiming my playstyle is inherently scummy then I will lynch myself(granted that I at the time finish my FH ISO, once both happen and you keep pushing, I will end it)
Nah fuck that I have less than 20 min left before I have to go (most likely won't be able to check thread before dl either)
I have laid out my reasons time and time again and anyone interested in it can read back from page 83 onwards
I still lynch Epik in lylo he hasn't delivered enough to warrant being taken out of the poe, I doubt the mafia team were all on MS d2 but this slot is too sketchy to ignore
Ride or die FH/Knights town, if you disagree make a case on them that's a whole lot more convincing than the mostly wifom based reasons you've brought up (people tell me Knights is lock town, I'm not as certain but I'm fine with going through the poe of asek/ag/lw/dle)
Good luck gentlemen
I have laid out my reasons time and time again and anyone interested in it can read back from page 83 onwards
I still lynch Epik in lylo he hasn't delivered enough to warrant being taken out of the poe, I doubt the mafia team were all on MS d2 but this slot is too sketchy to ignore
Ride or die FH/Knights town, if you disagree make a case on them that's a whole lot more convincing than the mostly wifom based reasons you've brought up (people tell me Knights is lock town, I'm not as certain but I'm fine with going through the poe of asek/ag/lw/dle)
Good luck gentlemen
someone look into whether the Knights iso where wrecks Asek was the only one he did back then / how he announced it for me
It's everything after it that makes my eyes glaze over.that first sentence is pretty
I went down a tinfoil road where his lack of presence combined with the push from and response to Asek led me to think that Asek got pissy about having to solo carry in D1 and retaliated with a bus. It was never about "respond to me how I want you to or you're scum".
Asek or Aura? And no, the Aura breakdown wasn't formatted like the one I did on you.
It wasn't about him not responding how I wanted him to, it was about him not responding at all, and again as you have brought up plenty of times ditching the thread in favour of being active on discord. I mean are we gonna ignore the part where I give in an quote my arguments against him, he says he will reply, then doesn't do shit about it? There was obviously a corelation between my problems of him avoiding me and your problems of him ditching the thread in favour of discord, it's a literal case of my problem being a symptom of your overall problem. Dunno why this is worth arguing over anyways.
Yes, it bothered me. I saw it as behavior that was both anti-Town and anti-scum, and as such thought it was tied to an association with Asek.
No. But neither going to ignore the parts where you repeatedly say that he's not giving you what you want and therefore must be scum, and that since you're not lying and one of you has to be lying it must be him who is the liar. I think that latter part is called false dilemma?
The correlation is in the conclusion reached, but not in the methods used to reach that conclusion. It's a conclusion where I can see not only that I was wrong but how I was wrong, and a conclusion you keep saying was justified.
Maybe because you're defending yourself right now and a fallacy-laden push that you continue to treat as if justified when it is Mod-proven wrong is a part of the case against you?
Firstly, all I ever intended to do with those parts what you call false dilemma, was to make Hitmon respond to me. If I am scum there has to be a hole in my arguement, you think I am scum so to prove it find that hole, if you are town you'd obviously do so. I only ever addressed those posts to Hitmon and only ever whenever he claimed it was pointless to engage me I'm scum the end.
Okay lets play bugs and insects, every bug is an insect, but not every insect is a bug. Similarly if Hitmon is ignoring the thread he is ignoring my arguments, but if he is ignoring my arguments that doesn't neccesarily mean he is ignoring the thread. Hopefully this clears up what I meant by correlation.
I am defending my opinions over the Hitmon push because I'm prideful and refuse to admit I was wrong and am pushing the blame solely on Hitmon by implying that if he didn't stop interacting me for two ingame days I wouldn't have had to go through a ridiculous game of cat and mouse to either get him lynched if scum or get him to die at night if mason(technically it was neither, I didn't expect him to false claim mason as town). I am annoyed, angry and disapointed that I was wrong and I'd rather take it out on Hitmon because if I start doubting that I may as well give up and not read anyone else this game with my selfesteem crushed. So yes I will stubbornly claim I was right on Hitmon, because otherwise I am gonna be useless and might as well roll over and die. There happy KoC?
The fallacies are the hole your argument. You fall back on them after making your initial case against Hitmon, to the point where your initial argument that proposes Hitmon as a flip-flopping scumbuddy to Asek is buried under the fallacies. And after the fact proves the initial case isn't valid, you act like the fallacies you covered it up in are.
vote LightWolf
all tunnel, no solve
vote LightWolf
all tunnel, no solve
Eh, wrong word. All tunnel, no hunting.
Still not sure I expressed myself right in that tl;dr last setence, so let's put it this way: You lost sight of why Hitmon pinged you and kept on gunning.
The assumption is as far as I understand that the reason Texas believed scum had no day chat was because Masons don't have one? After all the rules say "- Masons only have night chat". So if that is the premise, then couldn't the reverse be true as well? Former's reaction to the claim of Texas is that BOTH chats remain open during the day questionmark. By the same logic that Texas assumed his chats rules counted for the other, would it make sense that Former saying both were open because his chat was open? Frankly both are farfetched and I find it surprising it held true for Texas in the first place. Still if I want to prove Former guilty I need to look for whatever I can.
Reads Proph and Knights positively. (Yes this ISO will also include segments merely recording interactions and stances in a neutral way to get them on the record so I can get an overview)
This stinks, it's a post questioning the basics of pressuring people to expand reads on them and force them into a less comfortable situation. Not to mention part of it screams TELL ME WHAT YOU READ AS SCUMMY AND WHAT YOU DON'T.
Calls out Asek 200 pages in after someone mentions positively reading Texas' early Asek vote. Asek vanished within the first 20 posts and then only showed up for the 300s and never acknowledged this callout. At this point in time Former has not mentioned any of the other idlers.
While during Texas' push on FH, he rescinded the derpclear from Texas, it feels odd that he'd be on his case afterwards without readdressing the derpclear, especially when I don't understand why it was dropped except as an OMGUS to Texas pushing Former which defeats the claim of Texas slipping mason if that's all it took to undo that.
Fuck it I'm tired and I constantly lose focus and see double posts. Plan B incoming.
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