The most annoying wall combo

Eersnot

The most annoying wall combo



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Jirachi + Togekiss
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A bit more in depth:


When we look at these to Pokemon, move pool, stats all suggest support and they fill out a good role in that category but they are often over looked in their walling capabilities.Obviously Togekiss will be the special wall thanks to its Sp. def stat and Jirachi will be the physical wall thanks to its typing and many resistances to physical threats. They cover their weaknesses very well.

Togekiss being weak to Ice, Electric, and Rock type attacks. While Jirachi is weak to Ground and Fire, of the bat we see they cover each other quite well leaving only fire and thunder neutral, so Jirachi can take the Ice and Rock attacks thrown at Togekiss, and Togekiss can handle the ground attacks thrown at Jirachi.


Well now that we pointed out that they can be viable walls. We can move on to how they can fill that roll. Lets look at their ability's:

Togekiss - Serene Grace and Hustle

Jirachi - Serene Grace

Here we see they both carry Serene Grace which is what makes this combo a potent force. You all know how much of a bitch Togekiss and Jirachi are with all the flinching and paralyzing, and that's just one. Now imagine when both are in the same team.

Now lets get on to the move set and EV distribution:
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Jirachi @ Leftovers
Impish - Nature
252 Hp/ 40 Atk/ 216 Def
-Wish
-Zen Headbutt
-Reflect
-Body slam/Secret Power

Move set:
You need wish for recovery and team support obviously to help jirachi last through the entire match. Zen Headbutt is there for a reliable stab move and the flinch factor with out this, the set wouldn't of been nearly as effective. Reflect is to help you and your team to take take physical hits better and also a great support move. Body Slam is for the paralysis factor you can use Secret Power over Body Slam if you have no access to Emerald it has 100% accuracy and the same paralysis rate , you don't want Thunder Wave here because it will let you paralyze thing that resist Electric attacks, namely Grachomp. I didn't put Stealth Rocks because I see no need for it, but comments are greatly appreciated and welcomed.


Evs
First of you always want max Hp self explanatory it helps with Jirachi's duration second. We see the 40 EVs in attack why? You ask well... without them you wont be able to OHKO Infernape with Zen Headbutt. A huge threat to this combo instead of hoping for max damage to kill it, this way you will always OHKO.

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Togekiss @ Leftovers
Calm - Nature
252 HP/ 4 Sp.Atk/ 252 Sp. Def
-Roost
-Air Slash
-Light Screen/ Aura Sphere
-Thunder Wave/ Body Slam

Move set:
Roost is there for recovery no more explanation. Air Slash is its stab move and the flinch factor which you will need. Light Screen is so it can help it take hits better and for overall team support but you can loose that for Aura Sphere so you can actually hit steels.Thunder wave over Body Slam because it well guarantee a paralysis on stuff that will switch into Togekiss. Salamence, Gengar and Heatran to name a few.

EVs
Again max out Hp for durability, this time just dump the rest in special defense and then 4 in special attack since it dosent KO anything special with minor EVs.
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There you have the most annoying wall combo. All the paralysis and flinching will give you an advantage from the start. Hopefully this thread will help people see how potent this combo is. If you find any mistakes please don't hesitate to tell me. I'm not fluent in English so you might find some grammar mistakes.

Thanks for reading.
 
Nice guide, there's just a few things missing.

First, under Togekiss's name, it'd be a good idea to write the EV distribution so it is clearer and more consistent with your layout as you showed Jirachi's EV's clearly.

Second, there isn't enough information to convince people to actually run this set in a competitive environment. You should add damage calculations on pokemon these can wall efficiently and put in more in-depth info on counters etc.

It's a good start. Also, your English is fine, better than some others who speak it as a first language. Good luck improving this!! :D
 
I like this combo, and I've used it from time to time (it seriously pisses people off lol)

However, imo it's not enough to post a great combo - what kind of team would you build around it?
 
This combo would work very well on a stall team revolving around sand stream damage; Jirachi is immune, and both pokemon have good means of recovery. Get some Stealth Rocks in there as well. Toxic Spikes is iffy; you really need the paralysis as your Serene Grace pokemon are pretty slow. That said you do have another option for your Gracers: Ninjask. Pass a Speed Boost or two and your problem is solved.
 
Good combo!

I would use this with Sandstorm team and Garchomp. Jirachi and Togekiss para everything and then SubChomp comes and Sand Veil + Paralysis help Garchomp sweep.
 
Oh of course, if you're running a Sandstorm team, Garchomp is an auto-include, but what team is he NOT a good idea on?
 
Thanks for the comments guys. I added the EV spread on Togekiss, as well as fixed some minor mistakes.


Ferdie said:
Good combo!

I would use this with Sandstorm team and Garchomp. Jirachi and Togekiss para everything and then SubChomp comes and Sand Veil + Paralysis help Garchomp sweep.
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Yeah. I never thought how well this could function in a sandstorm team.

Kittymew said:
This combo would work very well on a stall team revolving around sand stream damage; Jirachi is immune, and both pokemon have good means of recovery. Get some Stealth Rocks in there as well. Toxic Spikes is iffy; you really need the paralysis as your Serene Grace pokemon are pretty slow. That said you do have another option for your Gracers: Ninjask. Pass a Speed Boost or two and your problem is solved.
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I dont see how ninjask can help since extra speed isnt really needed but, by all meens try whatever works for you.
Ancien Régime said:
I like this combo, and I've used it from time to time (it seriously pisses people off lol)

However, imo it's not enough to post a great combo - what kind of team would you build around it?
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Well, Obviously slow,bulky and powerful Pokemon to take advantage of all the paralysis going around. Like i said before I might more information later on.

Swellow-Soul said:
Nice guide, there's just a few things missing.

First, under Togekiss's name, it'd be a good idea to write the EV distribution so it is clearer and more consistent with your layout as you showed Jirachi's EV's clearly.

Second, there isn't enough information to convince people to actually run this set in a competitive environment. You should add damage calculations on pokemon these can wall efficiently and put in more in-depth info on counters etc.

It's a good start. Also, your English is fine, better than some others who speak it as a first language. Good luck improving this!! :D
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Thanks for the advice I might add some more information right now I'm at work so i wont be able until later.
 
I'd personally never have wish without protect on jirachi. It makes jirachi's recovery much more reliable and it also allows jirachi to safely switch into an attack which would normally 3hko it.
 
I agree with Link Rocks. An offensively oriented Swampert (adamant, max attack and HP?) could take advantage of the paralysis support to do some good damage, and provide some nice resistances for this combo.
 
Wow, This combo with Swampert is a great defensive set with quite a bit of offense. I can see this being used everywhere soon. Great Idea.
 
Thanks guys this is exactly why i posted this here, Swampert is a great idea. Also I fixed a couple more minor mistakes.
RedSP said:
I'd personally never have wish without protect on jirachi. It makes jirachi's recovery much more reliable and it also allows jirachi to safely switch into an attack which would normally 3hko it.
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yeah, but if you chose protect over reflect its not going to be as effetice since a missed prediction could hurt to gekiis allot more with out reflect.

Linkrocks1972 said:
Swampert would work great with them, since he absorbs the neutral fire and electric attacks, and puts up Stealth Rock.
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Great idea :D I will be testing this out.

skiddle said:
I agree with Link Rocks. An offensively oriented Swampert (adamant, max attack and HP?) could take advantage of the paralysis support to do some good damage, and provide some nice resistances for this combo.
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Yeah im not sure what set it can work with if you can come up with one that would be great. i'll will be testing out different sets as well.

Ejuck said:
Wow, This combo with Swampert is a great defensive set with quite a bit of offense. I can see this being used everywhere soon. Great Idea.
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Yeah i can see this happening to.
 
Combo's weak to the frequently seen Ground / Rock and Ground / Ice combination. STAB Electric attacks (Magnezone?) have the potential to take care of both of them. Maybe they're more annoying than another support combo, but IMO they're not very effective. Also, I really think you need 3 to make a good combo of support / bulk in DP, not two.

Props on Body Slam / Zen Headbutt though. It's a really obvious combination of moves but for some reason it's not on the analysis?

Special tanks with weaknesses to Electric AND Ice aren't generally effective.
 
Chris is me said:
Combo's weak to the frequently seen Ground / Rock and Ground / Ice combination. STAB Electric attacks (Magnezone?) have the potential to take care of both of them. Maybe they're more annoying than another support combo, but IMO they're not very effective. Also, I really think you need 3 to make a good combo of support / bulk in DP, not two.

Props on Body Slam / Zen Headbutt though. It's a really obvious combination of moves but for some reason it's not on the analysis?

Special tanks with weaknesses to Electric AND Ice aren't generally effective.
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Thats why im going to add Swampert somewhere in there.
 
Well then that's not "most annoying wall combo" anymore as much as "hey look it's the three defensive Pokémon I use on my team! DISCUSS!"
 
I guess you could try CB pert, although, you wouldn't be able to set up rocks effectively. However, with 523 Attack and STAB Earthquake, it'd be formidable.


Swampert @ Choice Band
Adamant
172 HP / 248 Atk / 88 Spe

Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Stone Edge

I basically just tweaked the EVs from the analysis set. Magnezone would cause problems with the OP's defensive core, so outspeeding the standard set (and skarmory to boot) is a good idea. You can hit it hard before it magnet rises, or just waterfall it for good damage.
 
skiddle said:
I guess you could try CB pert, although, you wouldn't be able to set up rocks effectively. However, with 523 Attack and STAB Earthquake, it'd be formidable.


Swampert @ Choice Band
Adamant
172 HP / 248 Atk / 88 Spe

Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Stone Edge

I basically just tweaked the EVs from the analysis set. Magnezone would cause problems with the OP's defensive core, so outspeeding the standard set (and skarmory to boot) is a good idea. You can hit it hard before it magnet rises, or just waterfall it for good damage.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the set, but i think choice band really limits the swampert.

Chris is me said:
Well then that's not "most annoying wall combo" anymore as much as "hey look it's the three defensive Pokémon I use on my team! DISCUSS!"
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Yeah I see your point. The whole point of this thread was to introduce what i though was a very unique way to wall, and i think I did that. So i have nothing more to say. I dont want to start a flame war so i wont discuss that anymore.
 
It is not a good idea to switch gengar or heatran onto togekiss, as togekiss walls them well, and only needs to watch out for explosion and focus blast on roost, while paraflinch kills both.
Pokes that will switch in are garchomp, and bulky walls like celebi, that t-wave doesn't hurt all that much.
This set has nothing to hinder garchomp and all moves hit nve on steels.​
 
Isn't Thunder a better option over BS on Jirachi, considering it offers better damage and coverage? It isn't as accurate, which I guess is important. Other than that, it hits some weird stuff switching in to Jirachi (Gyrados coming in to set up.)
 
He's using Body Slam to paralyze incoming Garchomps... -_- that's why it is there.

Anyways, @ Eersnot: with the Wish Support and Swampert's overall bulkiness I was pretty sure that CB pert was a pretty good idea. You could just remove the choice band for leftovers, but the power drop would be significant.
 
skiddle said:
He's using Body Slam to paralyze incoming Garchomps... -_- that's why it is there.

Anyways, @ Eersnot: with the Wish Support and Swampert's overall bulkiness I was pretty sure that CB pert was a pretty good idea. You could just remove the choice band for leftovers, but the power drop would be significant.
Click to expand...
Yeah i just tested it out its the best so far i tried a support, and a wall set but yours is more effective.
 
skiddle said:
He's using Body Slam to paralyze incoming Garchomps... -_- that's why it is there.

Anyways, @ Eersnot: with the Wish Support and Swampert's overall bulkiness I was pretty sure that CB pert was a pretty good idea. You could just remove the choice band for leftovers, but the power drop would be significant.
Click to expand...

I was refering to garchomps coming in on togekiss, who has t-wave and can't do anything.
 
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