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The most annoying wall combo
- Thread starter Eersnot
- Start date
stormFTW is going to freak when he sees this.
We were talking about this a long time ago as his favorite pokemon is Jirachi while mine is Togekiss. The fact that they both have serence grace and wish immediately came up. If you wanted to you could even give Jirachi u-turn to pass wish to togekiss. If you give Togekiss wish you can pass to Jirachu but you miss out on the instant recovery of roost.
We were talking about this a long time ago as his favorite pokemon is Jirachi while mine is Togekiss. The fact that they both have serence grace and wish immediately came up. If you wanted to you could even give Jirachi u-turn to pass wish to togekiss. If you give Togekiss wish you can pass to Jirachu but you miss out on the instant recovery of roost.
Yes, and it can also be used as an option on Jirachi, for everyone who complains about D/P ones not having access to Body Slam.
I used to have a team with Jirachi and Togekiss, and it was actually fairly successful. Nasty Plot Togekiss combined with Jirachi is an absolute bitch to beat.
for information on sweepers, this combo would go well with tyranitar, machamp, tyranitar, metagross, gallade, heatran, lucario, and heracross as your sweepers. If you want to set up for any of them, you're going to need a little bit more support, and type coverage is paramount.
Agreed. Jirachi is going to need to have protect to survive harder hits and stall. Although, paralysis is going to get you a free turn or two.
Agreed. Jirachi is going to need to have protect to survive harder hits and stall. Although, paralysis is going to get you a free turn or two.
Swampert does add an Infernape weakness to the team...
But I'm sure the other team mates could handle him.
But I'm sure the other team mates could handle him.
haha I can't believe this!
This and Leafeon we find out in one day.
Togekiss's monstrous spdef and a Reflect+Wished U-Turn(If you're good at earthquake predictions you could say fuck it to wish) from Jirachi to Togekiss would get him set up and ready to take hits while roosting off any damage and Nasty Plotting up. It really tears through about anything.
CB Swampert is pretty much the most viable set these days, unless you want it to die immediately after it sets up Stealth Rock, and a pokemon with 110 base attack, and ground STAB, it shouldn't be wasted like this. Jirachi can set up Stealth Rock anyways... Even tho these two are weak to ground / rock, and ground / ice like Chris is Me said, the only threatening pokemon who runs ground / ice anymore is Mamoswine. Swampert can't do shit to Togekiss, despite having Avalanche. You basically need STAB on both types to efficiently take down these two. Mamoswine can't even do it, due to low base power moves, as Ice Fang 3HKOs, while if it is paralyzed, GG, as Togekiss will flinchhax, then Roost off the damage. Magnezone is very, very threatening to the survival of these two, but then again, Magnezone destroys quite a lot of walls(Skarmory, Celebi, Cresselia, Jirachi, Togekiss, Forretress, etc.)
Hell, Infernape can't switch into Body Slam or Stone Edge(Swampert) either. Good prediction with these three absolutely destroys Infernape. The three have the resistances needed, Swampert resisting Flamethrower, Jirachi resists HP Ice, Togekiss/Jirachi resist Grass Knot, and Infernape's Close Combat is soo weak it doesn't even really matter.
Hell, Infernape can't switch into Body Slam or Stone Edge(Swampert) either. Good prediction with these three absolutely destroys Infernape. The three have the resistances needed, Swampert resisting Flamethrower, Jirachi resists HP Ice, Togekiss/Jirachi resist Grass Knot, and Infernape's Close Combat is soo weak it doesn't even really matter.
Yup, actually they work wonders toghether.
I have a "paraflinch" team based on them, and people hate to battle the team. but i have different spreads on the pokémon.
First of All, Jirachi has Thunder which has 60% Chance to paralise, while helping me to make some damage to pokes that otherwise i couldnt.
and then Togekiss has Nasty Plot, Air Slash, Roost and Body Slam. y have body slam to paralize whatever thunder wave / thunder can't. (note i use other members of the team to paralize) What ive seen is the key for this is Nasty plot; Blissey, Skarmory, and well, sturdy pokemons sometime try to setup or try to wall it, when togekiss has no hurries, so just Nasty plot up, roost of the little damage, and proceed to paraflinch them to death. Then, With 2 nasty plots, you can sweep almost all of your opponent's team, thanks to the sturdyness of Togekiss.
I finish Off with Scarftran and Specsmence, which also have good coverage at walling. its so much fun to use, and its really effective =).
C-ya!
I have a "paraflinch" team based on them, and people hate to battle the team. but i have different spreads on the pokémon.
First of All, Jirachi has Thunder which has 60% Chance to paralise, while helping me to make some damage to pokes that otherwise i couldnt.
and then Togekiss has Nasty Plot, Air Slash, Roost and Body Slam. y have body slam to paralize whatever thunder wave / thunder can't. (note i use other members of the team to paralize) What ive seen is the key for this is Nasty plot; Blissey, Skarmory, and well, sturdy pokemons sometime try to setup or try to wall it, when togekiss has no hurries, so just Nasty plot up, roost of the little damage, and proceed to paraflinch them to death. Then, With 2 nasty plots, you can sweep almost all of your opponent's team, thanks to the sturdyness of Togekiss.
I finish Off with Scarftran and Specsmence, which also have good coverage at walling. its so much fun to use, and its really effective =).
C-ya!
that would be resttalk curse waterfall actually
napes cc will 2hko kiss unless it's bold and will regardless with sr
I'm curious... what would happen if you replaced roost with wish on togekiss?
1 on 1, it would make togekiss not be able to stall as well, but it would be able to support jirachi too, instead of jirachi just supporting togekiss?
1 on 1, it would make togekiss not be able to stall as well, but it would be able to support jirachi too, instead of jirachi just supporting togekiss?
I just beat this combo with a SpecsJolt, so Swampert seems an even better poke to go alongside them.
I like it though, i'd rather fight this then celebi + heatran + bulkywater, which is actually getting easier to counter nowadays.
I like it though, i'd rather fight this then celebi + heatran + bulkywater, which is actually getting easier to counter nowadays.
Oh no! I hated Skarmbliss before, but finding a counter for that Jirachi + Togekiss combo is going to be rediculusly hard...
Oh yeah, the team should also have a Rapid Spinner so it can get rid of Stealth Rock for Togekiss. Forretress could work as that, since it can Rapid Spin, set up Spikes or Toxic Spikes with Swampert's Stealth Rock, as well as set up a Reflect or Light Screen for the rest of the team as well!
Or maybe Donphan can also work if it conflicts with Jirachi's weakness to fire.
Oh yeah, the team should also have a Rapid Spinner so it can get rid of Stealth Rock for Togekiss. Forretress could work as that, since it can Rapid Spin, set up Spikes or Toxic Spikes with Swampert's Stealth Rock, as well as set up a Reflect or Light Screen for the rest of the team as well!
Or maybe Donphan can also work if it conflicts with Jirachi's weakness to fire.
Ah yes, I forgot about that, but I still find that a little less reliable than CB. Curse is great, but Swampert's resistances only hold well to physical attacks and the occasional electric types. Things like SpecsMence, resist water, and since Swampert isn't boosting its special defense, will be 2HKOed. Plus Intimidate lowers attack, and there is no special equivalent to Intimidate. Suicune on the other hand boosts its special defense, so it can afford to stay in again things like SpecsMence and MixApe. The 4x weak to grass doesn't really help its cause either, even tho Ludicolo, Tangrowth and Celebi will still beat Suicune...
I was referring to Infernape's Close Combat vs. Jirachi... It does 38% maximum, while it would probably Flamethrower the next turn. You switch into Togekiss or Swampert, then you switch again. If Togekiss has Wish the cycle will continue until Infernape is dead, and Close Combat only has 8 PP.
I'm wondering, since Jirachi is already able to take physical hits and Togekiss can take special hits, wouldn't swapping Reflect for Light Screen on Jirachi and Light Screen for Reflect on Togekiss make more sense?
Unless they're meant to just take one side of the attacking spectrum, but with those switches i think both would be able to handle mixed sweepers (mainly infernape) more easily.
Unless they're meant to just take one side of the attacking spectrum, but with those switches i think both would be able to handle mixed sweepers (mainly infernape) more easily.
I use that same togekiss and I've found that Nasty Plot is more useful on than light screen or aura sphere, it keeps cresselia from walling you.
If you wanted to add this Swampert to the Togekiss/Jirachi wall combo, I suggest going for expert belt over Choice band. That way, earthquake still hits things like Magnezone hard, and helps the lack of STAB on Ice Punch and Stone Edge if they're used on the right counter to this pairing.
Mentioning counters, maybe we shouldn't be devoting our time to supporting this pair, and trying to work out what can actually take them down effectively...
Yeah, you might want to make your own team.