The Natural Slushie (Dual Weather [VGC 2010 RMT])

FawfulTheDark

Why hello there. :3 This is my first time posting on Smogon, although I have been around a while. As you all know, the VGCs will be coming around soon, and this is actually my second attempt at making a team. (First one had an overall weakness to weather) So I thought, why not counter it completely? My ideas formed into what came to be a dual-weather hail/rain team. Any comments are welcome.

Changes are in BOLD.

The Leads:

460_abomasnow_1_m.png

Abomasnow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP/252 sp.atk/4 def (0 speed IV)
Nature: Quiet
- Blizzard
- Grass Knot
- HP Fire (64 Highest)
- Protect

Abomasnow is mainly here to counter both sun/rain/sandstorm and the heavy pokes that would attempt to set it up. (Kyogre, Groudon, and Tyranitar) The only way I would fail to get hail up is in the case of a poke holding an iron ball, or the unlikely hippowdon. Grass Knot hits all the weather setters extremely hard, along with a big majority of ubers. HP Fire is there for other abomasnow, weavile, and chlorophyll pokes. As for the last slot, Ice shard gives me a priority move in case I need to bring a poke into hail ko range before abomasnow faints. (Although this is very situational) Protect is a must in doubles, although the focus sash somewhat compesates for that, so I need a second opinion for this. I decided to go with Protect for the final slot.

461.png

Weavile @ King's Rock
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 atk/252 spd/4 HP
Nature: Jolly
- Fake Out
- Fling
- Low Kick
- Protect

Weavile makes a solid lead because between fake out and fling, it allows two turns of flinch, meaning it could prevent almost all set up. Low Kick helps mainly against Dialga, but is effective against a large portion of ubers. Protect is necissary for doubles, easing prediction and allowing for an improved longevity of something as frail defensively as Weavile.

The Sweepers:

kyogre_sprite_by_Music_Loverrr.png

Kyogre @ Wide Lens
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP/252 sp.atk/4 def
Nature: Modest
- Muddy Water
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Here's my rain inducer, bringing my team into the "dual-weather" idea. With the HP evs, kyogre is excellently bulky, but still packs a punch. Compared to Surf, Muddy Water trades accuracy for not hitting your own teammate. (Something that makes absolutely no sense to me, but I'll take it) Thunder and Ice Beam give the legendary BoltBeam coverage, allowing this thing to rip through stuff. I chose Wide Lens as the item for better accuracy when using Muddy Water. I was also thinking of trading the bulky set for a faster one with water spout, so tell me if that might be a tad better.

150.png

Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Ability: Modest
EVs: 252 sp.atk/252 spd/4 HP
Nature:
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder
- Aura Sphere
- Protect

Mewtwo also takes advantage of the two weathers, has weaknesses unlikely to be seen outside of Giratina in the VGCs, and has a higher speed stat. Blizzard and Thunder serve the same purpose as always, while Aura Sphere gives great additional coverage. The choice between Modest and Timid natures puzzles me, because with Modest I'm still faster than Palkia, and with more power, but with Timid I can outspeed much more than Palkia. I have changed Blizzard to Shadow Ball because it gives me the same uber coverage but allows me to hit shedinja


Please give all the suggestions you can. :toast:

Based on input, I've decided to use Mewtwo over Palkia, but I will keep it here for reference in case someone feels differently.

484.png

Palkia @ Haban Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 sp.atk/252 spd/4 HP
Nature: Timid
- Hydro Pump/Spacial Rend
- Thunder
- Blizzard
- Protect

Here's the main poke that takes advantage of both types of weather. Palkia is great because between it's typing and the Haban Berry, it has no weaknesses. (At least for one turn) Thunder and Blizzard together is self-explanitory. My main concern was between Spacial Rend or Hydro Pump. Spacial Rend would give super effective damage on other Palkia, and also makes it a good neutral STAB attack, but has frightningly similar coverage to Blizzard. Hydro Pump on the other hand also gets STAB, a rain boost, and a higher BP, but gives it the EXACT same coverage as kyogre.
 
well you could always give kyogre wide lens. This way muddy water would have 93.5 accuracy instead of 85.


PS: Fawful is great
 
Blooroo22 said:
well you could always give kyogre wide lens. This way muddy water would have 93.5 accuracy instead of 85.


PS: Fawful is great
Click to expand...

Wide Lens seems like it could work, thanks.

Showsni said:
Once Abomasnow is dead, you're completely walled by Shedinja. Just something to bear in mind.
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Shedinja dies in either one turn from hail, or two with a sash, so I'm not particularly worried. And since will be usually the last to come out, it should work out fine.

Also, please give me suggestions between Mewtwo and Palkia, as I really need to settle that.
 
gary the gengar said:
First, hail isn't affected by focus sash.

Second, your Kyogre will offset the hail, causing shedinja to survive and destroy your team.
Click to expand...

Hmm, alright. I didn't realize it wasn't affected. But as I said, Kyogre will ALWAYS be the last to come out.

Now, is anyone actually going to give this a full rate?
 
Abomasnow, Mewtwo, and Weaville all look so vaguely familiar. Hehe ^_^

I wouldn't use HP fire at all. Sure it's helpful against shedinja, but your abomasnow will not be out that late of a game for shedinja. May I suggest running protect on it? :)

For my weaville, i was planning on changing protect for something else, such as night slash against mewtwo, cressilia, or any other psychic pokemon. Afterall, weaville is extremely fragile and will most likely die within the beginning two turns. Might as well give it a STAB move, no?

May I suggest Water Sprout instead of Muddy Water? the accuracy of muddy water is too low for my taste, but the choice is totally up to you.

Oh, and for your palkia, I suggest Spacial Rend over Hydro Pump. Trust me, you'll be using Spacial Rend ALOT more than Hydro Pump.

Besides that, your team looks great! Can't wait to see ya in the nationals :D


Btw: I agree with L33tSnowLeopard's post below about Mewtwo. He will be able to take out late-game Dialga, which will be popular.
 
Sure. Your first two pokes are good to go. I think where the problem lies (which is why people are focusing on it) is the last two. I say that Muddy Water will be better than Water Spout because Kyogre will take most of the attacks once he is out. But, like you said, Kyogre is last. For Mewtwo and Palkia, if I was you (which I am not) I would go with Mewtwo. He is fast, strong, TR will likely be gone by the time he is out if it even gets set up, and can hit any late-game Dialga.
 
Sammy said:
Abomasnow, Mewtwo, and Weaville all look so vaguely familiar. Hehe ^_^

I wouldn't use HP fire at all. Sure it's helpful against shedinja, but your abomasnow will not be out that late of a game for shedinja. May I suggest running protect on it? :)

For my weaville, i was planning on changing protect for something else, such as night slash against mewtwo, cressilia, or any other psychic pokemon. Afterall, weaville is extremely fragile and will most likely die within the beginning two turns. Might as well give it a STAB move, no?

May I suggest Water Sprout instead of Muddy Water? the accuracy of muddy water is too low for my taste, but the choice is totally up to you.

Oh, and for your palkia, I suggest Spacial Rend over Hydro Pump. Trust me, you'll be using Spacial Rend ALOT more than Hydro Pump.

Besides that, your team looks great! Can't wait to see ya in the nationals :D
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Lol, I didn't even notice your team until mine was done, sorry if it's a bit similar. But HP fire is mainly for other abomasnow leads, which I can't really do much against. (Although it can't do much against me either) But do you have a suggestion for something besides HP Fire?

As for kyogre, I think I'm going to keep the bulky muddy water set for now (And I have added wide lens)

And also, thanks. I hope to see you there too.

L33tSnowLeopard said:
Sure. Your first two pokes are good to go. I think where the problem lies (which is why people are focusing on it) is the last two. I say that Muddy Water will be better than Water Spout because Kyogre will take most of the attacks once he is out. But, like you said, Kyogre is last. For Mewtwo and Palkia, if I was you (which I am not) I would go with Mewtwo. He is fast, strong, TR will likely be gone by the time he is out if it even gets set up, and can hit any late-game Dialga.
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Thanks for the input, I believe I'm going to go with Mewtwo instead now.
 
Wow how ridiculous of me. I forgot Kyogre had wide lens >_>

May I suggest Sleep Talk? Since there will be alot of smeargles with dark void, Sleep Talk will do wonders. However it's just an idea I just made up right now. The decision is purely based of situations, so the choice of Sleep Talk or HP Fire is up to you.

Hmm... I also suggest getting rid of Focus Sash. What to replace it with? Possibly Occa Berry (to reduce the power of the popular Infernape's Heat Wave).
 
Sammy said:
Wow how ridiculous of me. I forgot Kyogre had wide lens >_>

May I suggest Sleep Talk? Since there will be alot of smeargles with dark void, Sleep Talk will do wonders. However it's just an idea I just made up right now. The decision is purely based of situations, so the choice of Sleep Talk or HP Fire is up to you.

Hmm... I also suggest getting rid of Focus Sash. What to replace it with? Possibly Occa Berry (to reduce the power of the popular Infernape's Heat Wave).
Click to expand...

Er...I never even considered Sleep Talk. Although I'm not completely worried about smeargle because of weavile, who can flinch it long enough for it to be destroyed by blizzard. As for getting rid of Focus Sash, I'm not sure if I want two pokes weak to fire that could go down from a heat wave, so I'm probably going to keep it, as occa berry is very limited and only covers one of Abomasnow's 7 weaknesses.
 
Use surf instead of muddy water. If it it misses it won't be good at all. I'd keep the focus sash, it helps against a lot of stuff. Either that or chesto/lum
 
Aqueos said:
Use surf instead of muddy water. If it it misses it won't be good at all. I'd keep the focus sash, it helps against a lot of stuff.
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The problem with surf is it will hit my teammate as well, where as muddy water doesn't. And with wide lens the accuracy of muddy water is almost 95%, so I don't believe it will be all that much of a problem.
 
Uh, besides your Aboma and Weavile's fling (which you only get once) you honestly have no way of taking care of Shedinja. You aren't even guaranteed the weather- a slower Groudon could come out first turn or even be switched in later in the match.

You had better rethink the movesets on your last two pokes. Don't be naive and think that your leads will be around long enough to take care of him when he is the fourth pokemon sent in from your opponents team. By then, it's waaaay too late. That's one auto-win you don't want to encounter.
 
godudette said:
Uh, besides your Aboma and Weavile's fling (which you only get once) you honestly have no way of taking care of Shedinja. You aren't even guaranteed the weather- a slower Groudon could come out first turn or even be switched in later in the match.

You had better rethink the movesets on your last two pokes. Don't be naive and think that your leads will be around long enough to take care of him when he is the fourth pokemon sent in from your opponents team. By then, it's waaaay too late. That's one auto-win you don't want to encounter.
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Suggestions?
 
If you do not wish to forgo the Boltbeam combo on your Mewtwo, you can consider Flamethrower/Fire Blast replacing Aura Sphere for Mewtwo (covering Shedinja, as well as better coverage over Metagross, while still covering Abomasnow). It does make it a bit more work dealing with Dialga though. Also, it doesn't work well with Kyogre's rain. Otherwise, you can use Shadow Ball over either Blizzard or Thunder - probably Blizzard, since you have a couple ice moves in your team for coverage already. Shadow Ball gives you the same coverage (as Blizzard) over pokemon like Lati@s, Lugia, and Giratina, while giving you additional coverage over Cresselia (and obviously Shedinja). You do lose coverage over other things weak to ice, but you do have 2 ice moves in your team already.

To be honest, I think Weavile's Fling King's Rock is just a gimmick which doesn't help you out in too many situations. If you have Night Slash, at least that alleviates the Shedinja problem slightly.

Also:
FawfulTheDark said:
460_abomasnow_1_m.png

Abomasnow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP/252 sp.atk/4 def (0 speed IV)
Nature: Quiet
- Blizzard
- Grass Knot
- HP Fire
- Protect
Click to expand...
You can get HP Fire with 0 Speed IV, but the base power will be pretty low. If you want a full (base 70) power HP Fire, you'd need a speed IV of 2.
 
Chinese Dood pretty much said what you could do for Mewtwo. You could try HP Flying on Kyogre, too, if you dropped Protect. That's also helpful for Ludicolos that could give you trouble.
 
Chinese Dood said:
If you do not wish to forgo the Boltbeam combo on your Mewtwo, you can consider Flamethrower/Fire Blast replacing Aura Sphere for Mewtwo (covering Shedinja, as well as better coverage over Metagross, while still covering Abomasnow). It does make it a bit more work dealing with Dialga though. Also, it doesn't work well with Kyogre's rain. Otherwise, you can use Shadow Ball over either Blizzard or Thunder - probably Blizzard, since you have a couple ice moves in your team for coverage already. Shadow Ball gives you the same coverage (as Blizzard) over pokemon like Lati@s, Lugia, and Giratina, while giving you additional coverage over Cresselia (and obviously Shedinja). You do lose coverage over other things weak to ice, but you do have 2 ice moves in your team already.

To be honest, I think Weavile's Fling King's Rock is just a gimmick which doesn't help you out in too many situations. If you have Night Slash, at least that alleviates the Shedinja problem slightly.

Also:

You can get HP Fire with 0 Speed IV, but the base power will be pretty low. If you want a full (base 70) power HP Fire, you'd need a speed IV of 2.
Click to expand...

Hmm, the highest HP Fire I could get was 64, so i'll have to think about that. As for the mewtwo suggestion, I will replace Blizzard with Shadow Ball, thanks for the input.
 
I was feeling a bit edgy about removing Blizzard on Mewtwo, and while I was looking at some other VGC RMTs, an interesting idea popped into my head. What if I put Toxic instead of Protect on Kyogre, and then put Blizzard back on Mewtwo? Do you think it would work?
 
Also Keep in mind Rayquaza who reduces Blizz's Accuracy, goes before Abomasnow to use Flamethrower/Fire Blast, and can keep Shedinja alive. If Shedinja is used on a Rayquaza Team (which it likely will be because it doesn't have to worry about being slower) then how will u kill it? Air Lock negates all Weather effects.

Its good you can bluff Ice Shard on Weavile, but still...

Also, Rayquaza can hit Palkia on the switch in, and outspeeds Kyogre's Ice Beam.
 
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