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The Next Best Thing... [V2]: Set Discussion
- Thread starter Bouff
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Why do you participate AND vote?
Other people have as well, including kokoloko and Hogg. And when I vote, it's because I either think the creator deserves more recognition, or I genuinely feel that their set is better than the others, including mine.
Taking the first shot at this, with Nasty Plot:
Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball / Focus Blast
This set takes a completely different approach to sweeping than the typical Swords Dance set, mainly to hit its usual offensive checks. Typically, Hydreigon is a great answer to SD Toxicroak because it can eat up a boosted Sucker Punch and then KO back with Draco Meteor. However, if it switches in on a Nasty Plot it will get smashed by a powerful Vacuum Wave. Sludge Wave is used over Sludge Bomb just for power reasons, but I dont know if there are any specific OHKOs that it achieves. Shadow Ball provides good coverage, hitting stuff such as Jirachi, while Focus Blast can be used for a more powerful attack on Hippowdon or Blissey / Umbreon.
Will probably add calcs later.
Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Vacuum Wave
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball / Focus Blast
This set takes a completely different approach to sweeping than the typical Swords Dance set, mainly to hit its usual offensive checks. Typically, Hydreigon is a great answer to SD Toxicroak because it can eat up a boosted Sucker Punch and then KO back with Draco Meteor. However, if it switches in on a Nasty Plot it will get smashed by a powerful Vacuum Wave. Sludge Wave is used over Sludge Bomb just for power reasons, but I dont know if there are any specific OHKOs that it achieves. Shadow Ball provides good coverage, hitting stuff such as Jirachi, while Focus Blast can be used for a more powerful attack on Hippowdon or Blissey / Umbreon.
Will probably add calcs later.
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Toxicroak @ Focus Sash
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Counter
- Sucker Punch/Knock Off
- Ice Punch
I present you the Anti-lead Toxicroak.
The idea is to prevent rocks with Taunt and take advantage your ground weakness to get a surprise kill on things like Swampert, Hippowdon, Gligar and Donphan by using Counter. Despite the fact that you don't have any boosting item, ice punch still two-hit KOs offensive Nidoqueen. Sucker Punch can be used to get some damage on opponent after Toxicroak does its job or you can remove your opponents item with Knock Off for more utility if they send something slower.
252+ Atk Toxicroak Ice Punch vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 176-208 (49.8 - 58.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Counter
- Sucker Punch/Knock Off
- Ice Punch
I present you the Anti-lead Toxicroak.
The idea is to prevent rocks with Taunt and take advantage your ground weakness to get a surprise kill on things like Swampert, Hippowdon, Gligar and Donphan by using Counter. Despite the fact that you don't have any boosting item, ice punch still two-hit KOs offensive Nidoqueen. Sucker Punch can be used to get some damage on opponent after Toxicroak does its job or you can remove your opponents item with Knock Off for more utility if they send something slower.
252+ Atk Toxicroak Ice Punch vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 176-208 (49.8 - 58.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
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Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Ice Punch / Stone Edge
The premise of the set is simple: put up a sub and unleash powerful Focus Punches. If something faster comes along, Sucker Punch it. This does away with the usual mindgames and minimizes the need for prediction. It is particularly useful when Trick users such as Scarf Chandelure attempt to switch in; they have no choice now and are forced to attack. Being behind a sub also allows Toxicroak to dodge status and beat Will-O-Wisp users such as Sableye and Arcanine, who are otherwise excellent checks to it. It can get plenty of opportunities to set up a Substitute, especially against Water-types such as Alomomola, CroCune, Tentacruel, and Vaporeon. The threat of the SD set means it can also force switches against the likes of Blissey and Snorlax and use the opportunity to sub up. Whilst the set's lack of power makes it more difficult to break stall than the SD set, it is very useful against more balanced teams and bulky offense as they commonly rely on Pokemon such as Hydreigon, Nidoqueen and Mega Aero to check Toxicroak, all of whom fall prey to this set.
Focus Punch needs no explanation, 150 BP combined with STAB and max attack investment is definitely going to hurt. Ice Punch is mainly for Gligar and the Nidos. Focus Punch hits nearly everything else harder apart from Crobat, who is one of the few reliable switch-ins to this set. So Stone Edge can be used over Ice Punch to have a shot at OHKOing Crobat after SR and to generally hit harder. The speed EVs allow Toxicroak to outspeed Adamant Honchkrow, which pretty much covers all the Pokemon that Toxicroak could attempt to set up on. The rest is put into HP to improve durability.
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This is my 1st post, so please bear with me...
Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe (def spread works too)
Jolly Nature
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Super Fang
- Substitute/Earthquake
Stallbreaker Toxicroak. The idea behind this set is to taunt a wall such as blissey, milotic or porygon2 and proceed to toxic it. Super fang is for stall-breaking, while earthquake is for hitting ghosts. Substitute allows for a longer lifespan/ easier stall-breaking.
Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe (def spread works too)
Jolly Nature
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Super Fang
- Substitute/Earthquake
Stallbreaker Toxicroak. The idea behind this set is to taunt a wall such as blissey, milotic or porygon2 and proceed to toxic it. Super fang is for stall-breaking, while earthquake is for hitting ghosts. Substitute allows for a longer lifespan/ easier stall-breaking.
Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP/196 SDef/60 Spe
Careful Nature
-Substitute
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Gunk Shot
Toxicroak's typing gives it a rather unique target to set up on for a Sub/Bulk Up 'mon, being Mega Blastoise.
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Toxicroak: 73-87 (19.7 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO
At +1 Defense, it can also set up subs on non-CB Machamp relatively comfortably
252+ Atk Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. +1 248 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 84-100 (22.7 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery (based on the rolls this equates to around a 50% chance to break the substitute)
The speed creep hits 221 speed, which isn't really a particularly glamorous speed tier anymore but it beats most "fast" Blastoise sets and it's also much faster than max speed Adamant Machamp.
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 248 HP/196 SDef/60 Spe
Careful Nature
-Substitute
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Gunk Shot
Toxicroak's typing gives it a rather unique target to set up on for a Sub/Bulk Up 'mon, being Mega Blastoise.
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Toxicroak: 73-87 (19.7 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO
At +1 Defense, it can also set up subs on non-CB Machamp relatively comfortably
252+ Atk Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. +1 248 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 84-100 (22.7 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery (based on the rolls this equates to around a 50% chance to break the substitute)
The speed creep hits 221 speed, which isn't really a particularly glamorous speed tier anymore but it beats most "fast" Blastoise sets and it's also much faster than max speed Adamant Machamp.
BELCH LORD
Toxicroak @ Salac Berry
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Belch
- Focus Blast
That's a nice Hippowdon you got there, would be a shame if Focus Blast rekt u l0l0l0l0l
+2 252+ SpA Toxicroak Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 424-499 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Sableye REKT sort of not really
+6 252+ SpA Toxicroak (No Move) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 306-360 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Crobat ok Crobat still walls you but fuck crobat
Arcanine REKT
+2 252+ SpA Toxicroak Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 391-462 (102 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Donphan REKT
+2 252+ SpA Toxicroak Focus Blast vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Donphan: 328-387 (90.1 - 106.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Best Toxicroak set, obliterates all counters, vote 4 me I have a custom banner
Toxicroak @ Salac Berry
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Belch
- Focus Blast
That's a nice Hippowdon you got there, would be a shame if Focus Blast rekt u l0l0l0l0l
+2 252+ SpA Toxicroak Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 424-499 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Sableye REKT sort of not really
+6 252+ SpA Toxicroak (No Move) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 306-360 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Crobat ok Crobat still walls you but fuck crobat
Arcanine REKT
+2 252+ SpA Toxicroak Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Arcanine: 391-462 (102 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Donphan REKT
+2 252+ SpA Toxicroak Focus Blast vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Donphan: 328-387 (90.1 - 106.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Best Toxicroak set, obliterates all counters, vote 4 me I have a custom banner
boltsandbombers
canasian
Calloflochie
C'mon guys, yes Belch is a funny set, but it's far from being viable as the "next best thing."
Anyway, I noticed Taunt and Super Fang in Toxicroak's decent movepool, so I hoped someone else would post a stallbreaker set similar to the one I created for Scrafty. Scrafty's STAB Knock Off for Ghosts makes it a bit better but it's still a great set.
(Edit:) Mighty Dagon
Anyway, I noticed Taunt and Super Fang in Toxicroak's decent movepool, so I hoped someone else would post a stallbreaker set similar to the one I created for Scrafty. Scrafty's STAB Knock Off for Ghosts makes it a bit better but it's still a great set.
(Edit:) Mighty Dagon
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Mighty Dagon posted a set with Taunt and Super Fang just above canasian's post
Yeah, I got those mixed up. Canasian's Bulk Up set, like Toxicroak's standard set last gen is also a great set.
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