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The Next Best Thing... [V2]: Set Discussion
- Thread starter Bouff
- Start date
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Our winner this round is Calloflochie!
Next victim is...
Mienshao
On another note, once the round after Mienshao is done, the project will be put on hold until ORAS is finished. When that happens, the thread will be used to discuss the sets that've won in the past rounds, and how they've been used, successfully or not. ;o
Next victim is...
Mienshao
Oh well, I was close :P
While I haven't seen this set used much, it seems like a pretty cool idea on paper.
Mienshao @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- High Jump Kick
- Baton Pass
- Knock Off / Swords Dance
Substitute is a great move on any offensive Pokemon to block status and prevent revenge killing, especially on Mienshao due to how many switches it forces with its high power. Notably, it is useful to set up a substitute on defensive Pokemon that try to block its HJK with Protect, thus gaining a free turn. Baton Pass works great in tandem with sub, passing off the barrier to a teammate. High Jump Kick is a strong STAB move, although the damage output isnt as crazy with regenerator over reckless. That ability is chosen to be able to Baton Pass out throughout the match and create more substitutes when needed. Lefties is for passive recovery to heal off damage from substitutes, and reckless is not needed due to the bulkier nature of this set. Maximum HP is to create as many substitutes as possible, but they can be moves to Attack (max speed is p. obvious). Knock Off is preferred in the last slot for obvious reasons to hit Psychic- and Ghost-types, but Swords Dance can be used to pass boosts to a teammate, but Mienshao is frail enough already.
While I haven't seen this set used much, it seems like a pretty cool idea on paper.
Mienshao @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- High Jump Kick
- Baton Pass
- Knock Off / Swords Dance
Substitute is a great move on any offensive Pokemon to block status and prevent revenge killing, especially on Mienshao due to how many switches it forces with its high power. Notably, it is useful to set up a substitute on defensive Pokemon that try to block its HJK with Protect, thus gaining a free turn. Baton Pass works great in tandem with sub, passing off the barrier to a teammate. High Jump Kick is a strong STAB move, although the damage output isnt as crazy with regenerator over reckless. That ability is chosen to be able to Baton Pass out throughout the match and create more substitutes when needed. Lefties is for passive recovery to heal off damage from substitutes, and reckless is not needed due to the bulkier nature of this set. Maximum HP is to create as many substitutes as possible, but they can be moves to Attack (max speed is p. obvious). Knock Off is preferred in the last slot for obvious reasons to hit Psychic- and Ghost-types, but Swords Dance can be used to pass boosts to a teammate, but Mienshao is frail enough already.
Here's something I've wanted to try out for awhile, but never gotten around to:
Mienshao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab/Stone Edge
Something pretty cool to take on bulkier teams. It has SD to raise its attack to frighteningly high levels with a Sash so it is usually guaranteed an SD once per game granted hazard support is there. The obligatory STAB in HJK is just extremely powerful at +2 in conjunction with Reckless, while Knock Off is there for ghosts and psychics such as Chandelure and Jirachi and PJab to spam against fairies that try and protect on HJKs. Stone Edge is also an option to try and hit Crobat on the switch, but it won't be outspeeding it if Bat gets a safe switch in so I think PJab is a better option. Yeah, gonna be honest this set is pretty gimicky, being suspect to priority and all scarfers so it seems to struggle against offense, but against bulkier teams like I said it looks like it'd have some fun.
+2 252 Atk Mienshao Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Aromatisse: 316-374 (77.8 - 92.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 192 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 487-574 (108.4 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mienshao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab/Stone Edge
Something pretty cool to take on bulkier teams. It has SD to raise its attack to frighteningly high levels with a Sash so it is usually guaranteed an SD once per game granted hazard support is there. The obligatory STAB in HJK is just extremely powerful at +2 in conjunction with Reckless, while Knock Off is there for ghosts and psychics such as Chandelure and Jirachi and PJab to spam against fairies that try and protect on HJKs. Stone Edge is also an option to try and hit Crobat on the switch, but it won't be outspeeding it if Bat gets a safe switch in so I think PJab is a better option. Yeah, gonna be honest this set is pretty gimicky, being suspect to priority and all scarfers so it seems to struggle against offense, but against bulkier teams like I said it looks like it'd have some fun.
+2 252 Atk Mienshao Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Aromatisse: 316-374 (77.8 - 92.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 192 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 487-574 (108.4 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Sub pass got taken, specs it is.
Mienshao actually has a weirdly high Spa stat so here's a specs set.
Mienshao @ Choice Specs
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Aura Sphere/Focus Blast
- U-turn
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
4 Atk evs and hasty because it's not like you're going to take a hit anyway. I'd prefer aura sphere just for reliability on this set but focus blast lets you do fun things like:
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 338-398 (90.8 - 106.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
and
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 306-360 (46.9 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
U-turn for momentum and so you don't reveal the ruse too soon, grass knot to bonk swampert:
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 460-544 (114.7 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Hidden Power ice is for birds that would otherwise switch into you for free:
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 190-224 (50.9 - 60%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Gligar: 204-240 (61.2 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 380-448 (122.1 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Fun set that can get some surprise kos.
Mienshao actually has a weirdly high Spa stat so here's a specs set.
Mienshao @ Choice Specs
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Aura Sphere/Focus Blast
- U-turn
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
4 Atk evs and hasty because it's not like you're going to take a hit anyway. I'd prefer aura sphere just for reliability on this set but focus blast lets you do fun things like:
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 338-398 (90.8 - 106.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
and
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 306-360 (46.9 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
U-turn for momentum and so you don't reveal the ruse too soon, grass knot to bonk swampert:
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 460-544 (114.7 - 135.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Hidden Power ice is for birds that would otherwise switch into you for free:
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Crobat: 190-224 (50.9 - 60%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Gligar: 204-240 (61.2 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 380-448 (122.1 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Fun set that can get some surprise kos.
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I'd go regenerator for the ability since inner focus does nothing for you. not many fake out users in UU and inner focus is p useless overall
Mienshao @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe EDIT: @252 Hp/ 4 SpA/ 252 Spd can be run for bulkier subs
Modest/ Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Aura Sphere/ Focus Blast
- Grass Knot/Baton Pass
The great thing about this set is that it can bluff as an ordinary subpass set, while actually pulling off a subcm. Get some boosts and you can start firing off loaded focus blasts and aura spheres. Grass knot is for Swampert, but you still get walled by florges. Baton pass is better for momentum.
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Hawlucha (Mienshao) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Endure
- Reversal
- Acrobatics
SD Endure-Salac Mienshao :] Instead of a wall-breaker or revenge killer, this is meant to act as a late-game sweeper. After enduring itself down to 1HP, Mienshao can attack with an amazing 200 BP, 100% accurate STAB move, in addition to a 110 BP Flying type move (which as we've seen with Hawlucha is a great secondary coverage move). Now Mienshao's normal checks die, especially if it manages to set up an SD on a forced switch (or even better, a Protect).
+2 252 Atk Mienshao Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 281-331 (84.8 - 100%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mienshao Reversal (200 BP) vs. 80 HP / 4 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 363-427 (113 - 133%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mienshao Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 239-282 (66.3 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Mienshao Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 415-489 (102.7 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Mienshao Reversal (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 2304-2712 (322.6 - 379.8%) -- guaranteed 1/3-HKO
Amazing.
Anyway it's an unexpected sweeper that will blast through teams if you can get +2/+1.
Something that Nightmare Vampire and I have been trying to build around is SD Pass Mienshao. It's really neat because after you lay hazards, +2 HJK mauls the whole tier minus ghosts. When Sableye tries to come in on you, you just eat the WoW and pass out to something like Entei who can take it from there. Combine this with a healing wish user like Jirachi (also an excellent SD recipient) and you have a fun but effective strategy that can be used throughout the game.
Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Moves:
-Swords Dance
-High Jump Kick
-Knock Off
-Baton Pass
Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Moves:
-Swords Dance
-High Jump Kick
-Knock Off
-Baton Pass
That's the same set as mine except without substitute :/Something that Nightmare Vampire and I have been trying to build around is SD Pass Mienshao. It's really neat because after you lay hazards, +2 HJK mauls the whole tier minus ghosts. When Sableye tries to come in on you, you just eat the WoW and pass out to something like Entei who can take it from there. Combine this with a healing wish user like Jirachi (also an excellent SD recipient) and you have a fun but effective strategy that can be used throughout the game.
Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Moves:
-Swords Dance
-High Jump Kick
-Knock Off
-Baton Pass
Is it really that different enough to be its own set?
It is both more offensive and has the room to run another coverage move. The SubPass set is more focused in bringing a teammate in while this is more of a sweeper with Baton Pass as a sort of last ditch, while also supporting the teammate. In my opinon thethe nature of the set and how its played merits its individuality.
Fair enough, I guess that's understandable.
So many sets posted so quickly... >.<
Enter anti-hazard lure Mienshao, a mixed set that's not outclassed by one of its other sets.
Shaolin Shogun - Mixed Martial Arts
Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator/Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Grass Knot
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab/HP Fire
The goals of this all-out attacker set are two things: lure and defeat Mienshao's checks for later cleaning and prevent hazards from being set up. High Jump Kick hits like a ton of bricks and is 'Shao's main wallbreaking/cleaning tool. Knock Off is also fairly standard for its utility and great coverage with HJK, deterring Ghost- and Psychic-types from switching in. Grass Knot takes advantage of Mienshao's respectable base 95 SpA, allowing it to lure in and reliably beat some of its premier checks (looking at you, Hippowdon), regardless of Stealth Rock and without resorting to Reckless. In the last slot, depending on what is needed, Mienshao can carry Poison Jab to further its role as a lure, for Florges, Whimsicott and random fairies, that otherwise wall this weasel. Or it can pack HP Fire almost solely to KO Forretress, yet it can also pick off a weakened Chesnaught without risking a HJK miss.
EVs are simple, maximizing speed and power, but if HP Fire is used, 32 EVs should be moved from Speed to SpA, since Mienshao can no longer speed tie other base 105's and can only outrun max base 100's. Regenerator is amazing with this set, negating Life Orb recoil and providing longevity. Hippowdon is destroyed by Grass Knot; however, Reckless is viable if Chesnaught is a major concern since it has a great chance to be 2HKO'ed after Stealth Rock and 2 turns of Leftovers recovery (Spiky Shield). Beefing up HJK also gives Mienshao a chance against Roserade and Tentacruel.
This set has done really well during testing. Here are some calcs involving Mienshao's usual checks and entry hazard setters it beats (pretty much everything except Tentacruel, Galvantula, and the rare SR Azelf).
Enter anti-hazard lure Mienshao, a mixed set that's not outclassed by one of its other sets.
Shaolin Shogun - Mixed Martial Arts
Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator/Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Grass Knot
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab/HP Fire
The goals of this all-out attacker set are two things: lure and defeat Mienshao's checks for later cleaning and prevent hazards from being set up. High Jump Kick hits like a ton of bricks and is 'Shao's main wallbreaking/cleaning tool. Knock Off is also fairly standard for its utility and great coverage with HJK, deterring Ghost- and Psychic-types from switching in. Grass Knot takes advantage of Mienshao's respectable base 95 SpA, allowing it to lure in and reliably beat some of its premier checks (looking at you, Hippowdon), regardless of Stealth Rock and without resorting to Reckless. In the last slot, depending on what is needed, Mienshao can carry Poison Jab to further its role as a lure, for Florges, Whimsicott and random fairies, that otherwise wall this weasel. Or it can pack HP Fire almost solely to KO Forretress, yet it can also pick off a weakened Chesnaught without risking a HJK miss.
EVs are simple, maximizing speed and power, but if HP Fire is used, 32 EVs should be moved from Speed to SpA, since Mienshao can no longer speed tie other base 105's and can only outrun max base 100's. Regenerator is amazing with this set, negating Life Orb recoil and providing longevity. Hippowdon is destroyed by Grass Knot; however, Reckless is viable if Chesnaught is a major concern since it has a great chance to be 2HKO'ed after Stealth Rock and 2 turns of Leftovers recovery (Spiky Shield). Beefing up HJK also gives Mienshao a chance against Roserade and Tentacruel.
This set has done really well during testing. Here are some calcs involving Mienshao's usual checks and entry hazard setters it beats (pretty much everything except Tentacruel, Galvantula, and the rare SR Azelf).
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Roserade: 226-268 (87.2 - 103.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 240 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 152-179 (42.1 - 49.5%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
*resisted hits^*
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 595-704 (159.9 - 189.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 164-195 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 268-317 (66.3 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SDef Hippowdon: 281-333 (66.9 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 411-484 (104.3 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 203-239 (56.3 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
36 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Forretress: 333-395 (94.3 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (SR guarantees the OHKO)
36 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 143-169 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 240 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 152-179 (42.1 - 49.5%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
*resisted hits^*
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 595-704 (159.9 - 189.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 164-195 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 268-317 (66.3 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SDef Hippowdon: 281-333 (66.9 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 411-484 (104.3 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 203-239 (56.3 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
36 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Forretress: 333-395 (94.3 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (SR guarantees the OHKO)
36 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chesnaught: 143-169 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
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Mienshao @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 SDef
Nature: Jolly
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-HJK
-U-turn
The premise of SubSD Mienshao is simple: come in safely against something you force out, and set up a Substitute on the switch. Then, set up a Swords Dance as your opponent breaks the Sub and sweep. Substitute and Swords Dance are self-explanatory, HJK is the STAB move that every Physical Mienshao runs, and U-turn is your "abort mission" button that also works well with Regenerator. Max Speed is required as Mienshao is very frail and will not want to take hits unless she's behind a Substitute. Although you have to give up an extra moveslot for Substitute, this set has several advantages over regular Swords Dance Mienshao:
1. Less prediction. If you set up Swords Dance expecting your opponent to switch, but they don't, Mienshao will not have a good time. Substitute allows you to scout what your opponent will do, and if they attack your Sub you can U-turn out, Regenerate, and come in later.
2. Better against stall. Substitute grants you immunity to Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Will-o-wisp, all of which Mienshao absolutely hates. In this way, SubSD Mienshao can act as a makeshift stallbreaker as well as a sweeper.
EDIT: I realize that boltsandbombers's set is very similar to this one; however, my set's goal is to try to sweep, using Substitute as a safety measure for setting up, while his set is more supportive.
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U-Turn is real counterproductive on a Sub SD set
The Haymaker
boltsandbombers
SubPass is a powerful strat, and Mienshao can definitely run this set effectively with the switches it forces.
SubPass is a powerful strat, and Mienshao can definitely run this set effectively with the switches it forces.
Billtodamax
specs everything is the answer.
specs everything is the answer.
boltsandbombers
Dudeman
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