Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

[alexwolf]

The OU Theorymon Project
Credit to Zebraiken for the original idea
This thread is an exception to the third rule of the OU forum

Welcome to the Theorymon Project of 6th gen's OU. Here, every few days, we will be discussing a list of 4 Pokemon, all of which will have little to zero viability in OU, and all of which have an additional move / ability / typing that they didn’t originally have. After all the theorymons have been sufficiently discussed, the voting will commence, which will last exactly one day.

How will this list of Pokemon be created each time? I will be accepting ideas from the community and i may also put some of my own ideas into a relatively small slate (4-5 Pokemon) each time. Every Pokemon that wins on each voting will be recorded in the archive, together with the name of the person who submitted it.

At the end of every month, we will have roughly ~6 new Pokemon. And this is where things will get interesting: if we have enough participation and discussion going on, a ladder will be created with OU + the 6 Pokemon we made. After exactly one month, the ladder will be reset, the old 6 Pokemon will be removed, and the new Pokemon that we will have voted on and discussed during this month will take their place. Finally, the names of the top 3 players at the end of each month will be saved in the Hall Of Fame (this number may be increased depending on popularity).

NEW: The ladder has been created. If you want to play it, go to the battles format > OM of the Month > OU Theorymon, and then click Find Battle. All the new typings are set automatically, and you can choose manually the added moves or abilities even if they are listed as illegal. If a new Ability is added only for a Mega Evolution, then just pick the regular forme and upon MEvolving it will have it automatically.

If you want to talk about the ladder, you can do so here.

Here are some general rules that each theorymon suggestion should follow:

• Don't suggest changes about Pokemon that are already pretty viable in OU. Of course the term 'pretty viable' is open to interpretation, so to be more specific, everything in C+ rank and below in the viability ranking thread is fair game.
  
• Don’t suggest changes that make or may make a Pokemon broken
• Only theorymon ideas that bring positives to the OU metagame and have useful implications will be picked, which means no Huge Power on random Pokemon and other similar buffs.
  
• You can only add a secondary typing to Pokemon of one type, or change the second type of a dual-typed Pokemon. Eg. Adding a Grass type to Florges, or changing Togekiss from Fairy / Flying to Fairy / (insert other type)
• Those changes should at the very least not contradict flavor. They don’t have to fit a Pokemon’s flavor perfectly, but don’t suggest a secondary Fire-type for Grass-types for example.

And here is a suggestion to make your theorymon more likely to get picked and give you a better idea of what we are looking for in this thread:

Also, an advice to anyone that wants to submit a theorymon. Don't suggest mindless offensive buffs. The metagame is already very offensive and we don't need more powerhouses, such as Boomburst Meloetta and Shell Smash Lapras. If you want to suggest something offensive, you should be sure that it adds something positive to the metagame and is not just one more powerful attacker. For example, Latios is a strong and fast special attacker that brings a lot to the table other than offensive presence, thanks to its good resistances, special bulk, and Defog.

For this reason, defensive buffs are more what i am looking for. Giving to not so viable Pokemon buffs that will allow them to successfully fill a defensive niche in the OU metagame. If your suggestion does that and doesn't contradict the flavor of the Pokemon, it's very likely to get slated. This doesn't mean that suggestions about offensive buffs won't get slated, just that i will be much more careful about them, and i will only pick them if they come along with some utility instead of sheer force.

So, please before submitting your suggestion, take a second to think about how this suggestion will fit in the metagame. This thread is not so that we can talk about mindless buffs to random Pokemon, but for us to find ways to improve the OU metagame by giving buffs to not so viable or completely unviable Pokemon.

Each slate will be discussed for 4 days, slates that will be made out of the proposed theorymons you guys send me, and after the discussion period is over, we will go to the voting period, with the winner getting added to the ladder of the next month and saved in the archive. You can PM me any good ideas you may have whenever you like, as long as they obey the rules listed above. Here is our current slate:

+ Poison typing (Mareep Sweep)

+ Shift Gear (Jaroda)

+ Drizzle (escarlata)

+ Tough Claws (Chou Toshio)


Theorymon Archive

Hide

February

Hide

+ Regenerator (alexwolf)

+ Fairy typing (UnicornDemon)

+ Roost (Seiterman)

+ Fairy typing replacing Flying (Cshadow)

+ Parting Shot (alexwolf)

+ Bulletproof (Chou Toshio)

+ Fairy typing (Liquidocelot)

March

Hide

+ Flash Fire (Magma)

+ Regenerator (U-Ralph)

+ Poison Heal (Isa Simple)

+ Tough Claws (alexwolf)

+ Fairy typing (Sevifar)

April

Hide

+ Poison typing (Pipotchi)

+ Dry Skin (Chou Toshio)

+ Dark typing (escarlata)

+ Gale Wings (Chou Toshio)

+ Snow Warning (Chesnaught)

+ Thick Fat (Magma)

May

Hide

+ Extremespeed (Valmanway)

Poison typing (U-Ralph)

+ Slack Off (Red Cat)

+ Defog (grassycow)

+ Shed Skin (Isa Simple)

June

Hide

+ Drought (HolyAvatar)

 

[alexwolf]

Hall of Fame

March

1. Kairyu_Gen1 - 1397 Elo
2. FlameSophist - 1385 Elo (acestriker19)
3. Chimplup - 1357 Elo

April and May

1. Carlos xx - 1407 Elo
2. Raph is Happy - 1400 Elo
3. Kairyu_Gen1 - 1397 Elo

 

[alexwolf]

You can now post.

 

[rachet67]

I'm going to say that Regenerator on Ampharos won't change the main role it currently runs much (its still a slow bulky pivot, with pretty good SpA). However, it will be able to come in on more threats without worrying about keeping its HP up, and allow it to do its job of keeping momentum and hitting fairly hard with volt switch more easily.

With regenerator it might be able to serve as a reliable screens setter that can stay alive throughout the match, and use its slow volt switch to safely switch in a set up sweeper. It also might be more inclined to to use its support moves such as heal bell. I can see the screens doing well on offense, and the bulky pivot with attacking moves more on bulky offense.

 

[Always!]

Honestly...

Regenerator+Heal Bell is scary, 165 SpA is scary, the fact that it now has a form of recover is scary, and it supports its team better than wash in some aspects (Cleric).

The impact it would have would be significant, as it won't get worn down as easily as say, Rotom-W.

Despite that, they will coexist, because Wash doesn't take up your Mega Slot.

I hope everyone understands how this thing would change, and damn, would it be a good one.

 

[midend]

Safe passing to teammates while retaining survivability is insane, allowing it to invest in defenses to survive another turn or two to support its teammates before it volt switches out

Very very good ability on a supportive tank that has 0 recovery.

 

[realiti]

Regenerator will help ampharos-mega so musch, becuase it lacks recovery and is usually used as a bulky strong pivot. Regenerator+Volt Switch is a nice way to do some damage and recover the HP that you lost taking a hit. Heal bell will also rise in usage due to how easy it is for ampharos to switch in due to its resistances. This could also be the new Talonflame counter, along with Rotom-w. Speaking of rotom-w, i feel that they perform similarly but have many differences that seperate themselves. Mega Ampharos has a nice Dragon STAB with a very powerful 165 SpA stat, along with solid 90/105/110 defenses. Rotom has a Water STAB which is just as useful as Ampharos' Dragon STAB, and has semi-reliable recovery in Pain Split. It also has Levitate, dodging all ground type attacks, and has will o wisp. Also it doesn't take up your mega slot. Both of them work best in balanced team imo, and both fulfill their role very well.

 

[rachet67]

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
252 HP/ 204 SpA (OHKO's 252 HP Landorus-t 75% of the time with HP ice #stillbetterthanfocusmiss)/ 56 Def (at least this much as it prevents OHKO by adamant landorus-t) I'll try to work on Evs.
Nature: Bold
-Volt Switch
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-HP [Ice]/ Heal Bell

I'm imagining that a screens set would look something akin to this. Heal bell would support the team further and get rid of any burns that it acquires itself. HP ice takes out 4x weak mons that would otherwise bother Ampharos, though it would have to nail some on the switch. It would still have problems with any ground pokemon that outspeeds it (pretty much everything besides donphan), especially excadrill. Obviously another problem it would have is that its screens would only last 5 turns, but most pokemon can set up in the 3-4 turns provided.

 

[TheAntler]

Being that Regenerator is just about the best ability for a bulky pokemon, especially one that gets Volt Switch, I could see Mega Ampharos making huge jump in usage in OU. With Regenerator, Ampharos would be able to take a hit, Volt Switch out, and recover the damage, only to come in again later and repeat the tactic. This idea would work well on a stall team, since it makes Mega Ampharos incredibly difficult to KO. He could also abuse this tactic endlessly in a TR setup, since Mega Ampharos is really slow. He would almost always move first, meaning a free switch out and free health regeneration.

Ampharos could also fill the role of a very bulky sweeper with Cotton Guard + 3 attacks. Maybe a set like this could function well

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static ==> Regenerator
Modest
252 HP / 200 SpA / 56 SpD
-Cotton Guard
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice
-Dragon Pulse/Focus Blast

With regards to Rotom-W, I don't think Mega Ampharos would affect his usage too much. Rotom-W is just too good as a utility pokemon, with several useful resistances to Fire, Water, Steel, Flying, Ice, and immunity to Ground (barring Mold Breaker), almost every entry hazard, and paralysis. Rotom's ability to either act as a pivot, status absorber and spreader, and possibly Tricking a useless item to a sweeper/wall means that no matter how useful Mega Ampharos with Regenerator is, it will never outshine Rotom-W completely. I could see the two being used as teammates, making up 2/3 of a VoltTurn core with any of your preferred U-turn users.

If Mega Ampharos were to get Regenerator, Bulky Offense and Stall would get a huge benefit, whereas Heavy Offense would suffer. Mega Ampharos's natural bulk and Regenerator make him an ideal candidate for Bulky Offense, and he is attractive to Stall for my aforementioned reason of Volt Switch + Regenerator. Heavy Offense would suffer because Mega Ampharos would be incredibly difficult to bring down, while dealing massive amounts of damage in return.

Right now, two viable sets come to mind. The first one is the one I mentioned earlier in this post, and the other is his Volt Switch/TR set.

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Static ==> Regenerator
Modest/Quiet
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
0 Spe IVs if in TR
-Volt Switch
-HP Ice
-Focus Blast
-Dragon Pulse

It's really a shame that it's not regular Ampharos getting this ability, because I could see it being a very good user of Weakness Policy + Regenerator, but this isn't the place to talk about that particular Theorymon.

 

[Jaiho]

Mega Ampharos with Regenerator is very interesting, as it lets it be one of 2 distinct roles. The first would be a defensive set, which while similar to Rotom-W is much bulkier, and can act as a cleric and team supporter while still having an incredible amount of power behind its Volt Switch and Dragon Pulse. On the other hand, it can play a role as a bulky offensive pivot, due to being one of the slowest and most powerful Volturn users, and gets good coverage in Focus Blast and a Hidden Power of its choosing.

Mega Ampharos' presence could possibly lead to a drop in Talonflame usage, since it takes at most 22.9% from it. It is also a shaky check to double bird, since while it is 2HKOed by Staraptor, it easily KOes with Volt Switch and Regenerates back to a reasonable amount of health. It is also a pretty solid counter to Zard-Y, since not even physically defensive sets are 2HKOed by Fire Blast. On the other hand, Setup sweepers like Zard-X, Mega-Luc, and M-Pinsir love the free switch-ins that a slow Volt Switch can get them.

Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse
- Heal Bell
- Toxic / Thunder Wave

Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ice]

 

[fightnugget]

Being that Regenerator is just about the best ability for a bulky pokemon, especially one that gets Volt Switch, I could see Mega Ampharos making Rotom-W is just too good as a utility pokemon, with several useful resistances to Fire, Water, Steel, Rock

no

 

[Ash Borer]

This makes Mega ampharos bar none the best Talonflame counter, it would be a really useful addition to offensive teams that strugle against this thing, because its such a good pivot.

With good bulk you can switch in on resisted attacks, then volt switch out taking the scond hit, and recover off a good chunk of damage generating momentum and keeping your more frail offensive pokemon safe. This is a similar role rotom-w plays, but isntead you get regenerator and better bulk. That's huge!

 

[Chou Toshio]

Mmmm... Regenerator Ampharos...

I have to be honest and say that this is not a very interesting Theorymon. While this is a competitive forum, and the focus of discussion is on strategy, Theorymon threads originated in OI because the concept of Theorymonning is only really interesting when the theorymon has a flavor-based substance. It has to be fitting from a design aspect.

Anyone can realize that Huge Power Spiritomb or Magic Gaurd Moltres would be sweet but-- what's the point if you're just going to slap a broken ability or move onto a Pokemon it makes no sense on? There's nothing fun or interesting in that.

I hate to say it, but that's exactly what Regenerator Ampharose is this. What makes an electric Dragon/Mammal thing with a nothing-special physical form fitting for Regenerator? One of the best abilities in the whole game. There is no design precedence/similarities to be found between Ampharos and actual regenerator users.

I guess Sheep can re-grow hair, but then... can't anything? That's not regeneration...

I just want to make this statement for precedence now, so that the OP and participants will think about it when designing Theorymons going into the future-- a Theorymon without a design-based justification is a very boring thing. When the OP (or other posters who are given the right to post Theorymons) in the future post theorymons, they should open competitive discussion and outline a design-based justification.

I propose this be a requirement going into the future. Competitive discussion is the focus of this forum, but without a design justification, the "substance" to a theorymon becomes significantly weaker.


Now putting the design issue aside, Regenerator would be nice on Ampharos (as it would be nice on almost anything), but especially because Megas normally lack forms of recovery. Ampharos' bulk, power, and select resistances would make it effective at a hit-and-run style of play. It wouldn't be anything meta-game defining (ampharos would still get worn down fairly quickly by status and hazard damage, and isn't incredibly bulky, nor does it hit any harder than Choice Specs/LO Dragons), but it would be a nice additional Talonflame check. Getting destroyed by Pinser's EQ would make it unideal as a counter for "bird teams".

 

[rachet67]

I guess Sheep can re-grow hair, but then... can't anything? That's not regeneration...

Now putting the design issue aside, Regenerator would be nice on Ampharos (as it would be nice on almost anything), but especially because Megas normally lack forms of recovery. Ampharos' bulk, power, and select resistances would make it effective at a hit-and-run style of play. It wouldn't be anything meta-game defining (ampharos would still get worn down fairly quickly by status and hazard damage, and isn't incredibly bulky, nor does it hit any harder than Choice Specs/LO Dragons), but it would be a nice additional Talonflame check. Getting destroyed by Pinser's EQ would make it unideal as a counter for "bird teams".

Sheep regenerating wool sounds good enough to me personally. I would say that it is pretty bulky as 90/105/110 are nothing to laugh about, and it does have a unique typing that gives it a lot of good resistances. I think regenerator is especially appreciated on Amphrados because it is primarily a bulky pivot (thus many chances to regain health). Its also the only pokemon that gets screens and volt switch besides mew unless I'm wrong, and regenerator compliments this as well.

 

[skies]

I'm an avid user of Mega Ampharos, and Regenerator is a really chill ability to aid with the lack of recovery. A nice set of Heal Bell / Volt Switch / anything else it doesn't really matter would give it a huge niche in the current metagame. Maybe a physically defensive set would be best, as it can survive this shit:
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 270-320 (70.3 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Then maybe run Hidden Power [Ice]:
4 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 320-380 (83.7 - 99.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
or if not bulky:
4 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 320-380 (100.3 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Photofluid]

It is funny because I actually think it risk a ban in case regenerator MAphor does exist.

Mmmm... Regenerator Ampharos...

I have to be honest and say that this is not a very interesting Theorymon. While this is a competitive forum, and the focus of discussion is on strategy, Theorymon threads originated in OI because the concept of Theorymonning is only really interesting when the theorymon has a flavor-based substance. It has to be fitting from a design aspect.

Anyone can realize that Huge Power Spiritomb or Magic Gaurd Moltres would be sweet but-- what's the point if you're just going to slap a broken ability or move onto a Pokemon it makes no sense on? There's nothing fun or interesting in that.

I hate to say it, but that's exactly what Regenerator Ampharose is this. What makes an electric Dragon/Mammal thing with a nothing-special physical form fitting for Regenerator? One of the best abilities in the whole game. There is no design precedence/similarities to be found between Ampharos and actual regenerator users.

I guess Sheep can re-grow hair, but then... can't anything? That's not regeneration...

I just want to make this statement for precedence now, so that the OP and participants will think about it when designing Theorymons going into the future-- a Theorymon without a design-based justification is a very boring thing. When the OP (or other posters who are given the right to post Theorymons) in the future post theorymons, they should open competitive discussion and outline a design-based justification.

I propose this be a requirement going into the future. Competitive discussion is the focus of this forum, but without a design justification, the "substance" to a theorymon becomes significantly weaker.


Now putting the design issue aside, Regenerator would be nice on Ampharos (as it would be nice on almost anything), but especially because Megas normally lack forms of recovery. Ampharos' bulk, power, and select resistances would make it effective at a hit-and-run style of play. It wouldn't be anything meta-game defining (ampharos would still get worn down fairly quickly by status and hazard damage, and isn't incredibly bulky, nor does it hit any harder than Choice Specs/LO Dragons), but it would be a nice additional Talonflame check. Getting destroyed by Pinser's EQ would make it unideal as a counter for "bird teams".

Regenerator is probably an irrational ability to begin with anyway, I don't actually see any users possessing it manage to fit it thematically, while those which does (e.g. Starmie) don't get it either.

If I am to give a constraint to it, I would probably use the move recover as a benchmark, as the two shares most thematic similarity. In japanese they actually share a very similar name too. (Recover: self recover/ self regrowth ; Regenerator: the power of recover/ the power of regrowth)

 

[Sandoori]

Mmmm... Regenerator Ampharos...

I have to be honest and say that this is not a very interesting Theorymon. While this is a competitive forum, and the focus of discussion is on strategy, Theorymon threads originated in OI because the concept of Theorymonning is only really interesting when the theorymon has a flavor-based substance. It has to be fitting from a design aspect.

Anyone can realize that Huge Power Spiritomb or Magic Gaurd Moltres would be sweet but-- what's the point if you're just going to slap a broken ability or move onto a Pokemon it makes no sense on? There's nothing fun or interesting in that.

I hate to say it, but that's exactly what Regenerator Ampharose is this. What makes an electric Dragon/Mammal thing with a nothing-special physical form fitting for Regenerator? One of the best abilities in the whole game. There is no design precedence/similarities to be found between Ampharos and actual regenerator users.

I guess Sheep can re-grow hair, but then... can't anything? That's not regeneration...

I just want to make this statement for precedence now, so that the OP and participants will think about it when designing Theorymons going into the future-- a Theorymon without a design-based justification is a very boring thing. When the OP (or other posters who are given the right to post Theorymons) in the future post theorymons, they should open competitive discussion and outline a design-based justification.

I propose this be a requirement going into the future. Competitive discussion is the focus of this forum, but without a design justification, the "substance" to a theorymon becomes significantly weaker.


Now putting the design issue aside, Regenerator would be nice on Ampharos (as it would be nice on almost anything), but especially because Megas normally lack forms of recovery. Ampharos' bulk, power, and select resistances would make it effective at a hit-and-run style of play. It wouldn't be anything meta-game defining (ampharos would still get worn down fairly quickly by status and hazard damage, and isn't incredibly bulky, nor does it hit any harder than Choice Specs/LO Dragons), but it would be a nice additional Talonflame check. Getting destroyed by Pinser's EQ would make it unideal as a counter for "bird teams".

It regenerates the luscious mullet it had in its early 20s.

Honestly though, I don't see how Regenerator fits Mega Ampharos any less than it fits Mienshao, Audino, or Tornadus-T, and from a gameplay standpoint it provides some interesting possibilities in its role as a bulky pivot.

 

[ThinkNice]

Mmmm... Regenerator Ampharos...

I have to be honest and say that this is not a very interesting Theorymon. While this is a competitive forum, and the focus of discussion is on strategy, Theorymon threads originated in OI because the concept of Theorymonning is only really interesting when the theorymon has a flavor-based substance. It has to be fitting from a design aspect.

Anyone can realize that Huge Power Spiritomb or Magic Gaurd Moltres would be sweet but-- what's the point if you're just going to slap a broken ability or move onto a Pokemon it makes no sense on? There's nothing fun or interesting in that.

I hate to say it, but that's exactly what Regenerator Ampharose is this. What makes an electric Dragon/Mammal thing with a nothing-special physical form fitting for Regenerator? One of the best abilities in the whole game. There is no design precedence/similarities to be found between Ampharos and actual regenerator users.

I guess Sheep can re-grow hair, but then... can't anything? That's not regeneration...

I just want to make this statement for precedence now, so that the OP and participants will think about it when designing Theorymons going into the future-- a Theorymon without a design-based justification is a very boring thing. When the OP (or other posters who are given the right to post Theorymons) in the future post theorymons, they should open competitive discussion and outline a design-based justification.

I propose this be a requirement going into the future. Competitive discussion is the focus of this forum, but without a design justification, the "substance" to a theorymon becomes significantly weaker.


Now putting the design issue aside, Regenerator would be nice on Ampharos (as it would be nice on almost anything), but especially because Megas normally lack forms of recovery. Ampharos' bulk, power, and select resistances would make it effective at a hit-and-run style of play. It wouldn't be anything meta-game defining (ampharos would still get worn down fairly quickly by status and hazard damage, and isn't incredibly bulky, nor does it hit any harder than Choice Specs/LO Dragons), but it would be a nice additional Talonflame check. Getting destroyed by Pinser's EQ would make it unideal as a counter for "bird teams".

I can agree with this, it just seems like a slapped on ability which takes away from the whole concept.

-Anyway

Regenerator on any Mega would be quite nice as they don't have items and most of the times also lack the moves for recovery. (Pain Split MBanette comes to mind and MegaVenu of course). But Ampharos also has acces to Volt Switch making the ability even greater. With access to Heal Bell and Screens it can perform as an excellent team supporter straight up countering Rotom-W and Talonflame. Its Dragon STAB in Dragon Pulse is nothing to laugh at either with that immense base SpA.
As for the roll Ampharos would fill, it would fill the role of anything with Volt Switch. It's pretty much a very bulky pivot switch and also a status absorber. It's also bulky enough to not care about Knock Off which is nice.
I personally think that Ampharos with Regenerator would be an amazing asset to Trick Room teams and that we may see more variants of that. Especially if you consider how powerful Slowbro + Ampharos can be. Both have Regenerator and Slowbro can take those nasty EQs all day, set up Trick Rooms all that good stuff. Strong U-Turns could prove to be a problem though so I would suggest running HP Ice on Ampharos for Landorus variants while running FB on Slowbro for those Scizor. Yeah I really like the idea of using Ampharos on Trick Room teams and I really believe it could make them more viable (not saying they aren't) just solely with Regenerator. The set would be something like:

Me First
Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Volt Switch
- HP Ice / Dragon Pulse
- Reflect / / Light Screen / Dragon Pulse
- Heal Bell
Volt Switch to abuse Regenerator obviously and then HP Ice can take care of Lando and stuff. I don't really think that you always absolutely need Dual Screens especially when Mega Ampha can't hold Light Clay anyway and it would just waste TR turns (if using TR). You could use Reflect if you want to take strong U-Turns and EQs and stuff, while Light Screen would maybe better support the core with Slowbro.

It can just aswell use an offensive spread as well (not talking Trick Room anymore). Its bulk more than justifies it with dem regens. But still its speed is pretty terrible. Even max speed Timid just barely outpaces Rotom-W, you can however outspeed stuff like MegaScizor with Modest if you would want that. There seems to be more benefit in just going for bulk though.

 

[rachet67]

I'm an avid user of Mega Ampharos, and Regenerator is a really chill ability to aid with the lack of recovery. A nice set of Heal Bell / Volt Switch / anything else it doesn't really matter would give it a huge niche in the current metagame. Maybe a physically defensive set would be best, as it can survive this shit:
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 270-320 (70.3 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Then maybe run Hidden Power [Ice]:
4 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 320-380 (83.7 - 99.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
or if not bulky:
4 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 320-380 (100.3 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This spread would be slightly more efficiant for this purpose:
104+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 380-448 (99.4 - 117.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 156 Def Mega Ampharos: 320-380 (83.3 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Ignus]

Unfortunately, Ampharos has a couple of issues that would stop it from being a top tier threat. Regenerator gives it an advantage over the likes of many bulky pivots; but It doesn't address many of it's major issues that already exist within it's movepool and typing.
First of all, most pivots have immunities or a ludicrous amount of resistances with very few weaknesses; such as the posts original example, Rotom-w. It only has a single weakness, while carrying resistances to fire, water, flying, steel, and an immunity to ground, allowing it to switch in to some of the biggest threats in the metagame. Not only that, but will-o-wisp allows it to handle many of the pokemon you would see switching into it, such as Breloom.

Compare this to Ampharos, who is, in fact, extremely bulky, but lacks the resistances to back up it's bulk. It's four weaknesses, Ice, ground, dragon and fairy, are some of the most used attacking types in the game (Other than fairy), and only serve to weaken it's role as a pivot. It's resistances, while useful, don't quite compare to the switch-in power even a single immunity can give you.
That said, I am under selling M-Ampharos's natural bulk quite a bit. But it's usefulness as a pivot will be determined by what it can't stop, not by what it can. Not dying to Talonflame is all well and good, but that alone won't solidify it's position in OU.

Not only is it underwhelming in terms of resistances, but Ampharos lacks the movepool to be a strong utility support. Thunder Wave, Toxic, Light Screen/Reflect without light clay, Heal Bell. That's about it. Nothing game changing. Not really. Sure, Regenerator opens up a moveslot that could be useful, but what would you put in it? Thunder Wave?
Yay! I slowed down the Pinsir's priority moves!
Wait.. Never mind, I died to a +2 earthquake.
Ha! Now the Lucario has to use ExtremeSpeed!
Which still has a 78% chance to 2hko me at +2. Crap.

In both scenarios, it's always going to be better to just attack. Even there, however, we have some problems. Our best STAB is going to be dragon pulse, which, while strong, isn't nearly as strong as Goodra's Draco meteor. 85 base power compared to 130 is a huge difference, and being a pivot, you're only going to be out there for a short time anyhow. Ampharos's lack of Draco meteor hurts it quite a bit, and gives it stiff competition from many other bulky special dragons, such as Lati@s and Goodra.

So maybe regenerator would help. But I don't think it will make Mega-Ampharos a god. Or outclass Rotom-W. Or even make it stronger than The Latis.

 

[rachet67]

Unfortunately, Ampharos has a couple of issues that would stop it from being a top tier threat. Regenerator gives it an advantage over the likes of many bulky pivots; but It doesn't address many of it's major issues that already exist within it's movepool and typing.
First of all, most pivots have immunities or a ludicrous amount of resistances with very few weaknesses; such as the posts original example, Rotom-w. It only has a single weakness, while carrying resistances to fire, water, flying, steel, and an immunity to ground, allowing it to switch in to some of the biggest threats in the metagame. Not only that, but will-o-wisp allows it to handle many of the pokemon you would see switching into it, such as Breloom.

Compare this to Ampharos, who is, in fact, extremely bulky, but lacks the resistances to back up it's bulk. It's four weaknesses, Ice, ground, dragon and fairy, are some of the most used attacking types in the game (Other than fairy), and only serve to weaken it's role as a pivot. It's resistances, while useful, don't quite compare to the switch-in power even a single immunity can give you.
That said, I am under selling M-Ampharos's natural bulk quite a bit. But it's usefulness as a pivot will be determined by what it can't stop, not by what it can. Not dying to Talonflame is all well and good, but that alone won't solidify it's position in OU.

Not only is it underwhelming in terms of resistances, but Ampharos lacks the movepool to be a strong utility support. Thunder Wave, Toxic, Light Screen/Reflect without light clay, Heal Bell. That's about it. Nothing game changing. Not really. Sure, Regenerator opens up a moveslot that could be useful, but what would you put in it? Thunder Wave?
Yay! I slowed down the Pinsir's priority moves!
Wait.. Never mind, I died to a +2 earthquake.
Ha! Now the Lucario has to use ExtremeSpeed!
Which still has a 78% chance to 2hko me at +2. Crap.

In both scenarios, it's always going to be better to just attack. Even there, however, we have some problems. Our best STAB is going to be dragon pulse, which, while strong, isn't nearly as strong as Goodra's Draco meteor. 85 base power compared to 130 is a huge difference, and being a pivot, you're only going to be out there for a short time anyhow. Ampharos's lack of Draco meteor hurts it quite a bit, and gives it stiff competition from many other bulky special dragons, such as Lati@s and Goodra.

So maybe regenerator would help. But I don't think it will make Mega-Ampharos a god. Or outclass Rotom-W. Or even make it stronger than The Latis.

Switching into resisted attacks on a pokemon that it completely walls, is almost like an immunity, considering it can just volt-switch out and recover the damage out. Mega-Lucario's going to be banned, as soon as its voted upon, so thats one thing it won't have to deal with. It has a different set of resistance to rotom-w, and unlike rotom-w can heal on the way out. This is very important, as the lack of reliable healing is the reason rotom-w eventually gets overwhelmed. However, rotom-w does receive will-o-wisp, which would make amphardos' life a lot easier as a bulky pivot. Dragon isn't all that common of an attacking type anymore, with the various nerfs they received (the most prominent being an amazing counter in aegislash).

But your right, I don't think regenerator will make amphardos the top tier threat, nor do I think it will replace rotom-w as they have different resistances and supporting movesets. Not to mention that rotom-w can hold items. I don't doubt that Amphardos would become a good pokemon in OU, worthy of chosing over other mega pokemon.

 

[Seiterman]

I don't think Regenerator M-Ampharos really changes how it plays, it just acts as an overall buff to the mon. There really aren't any sets that wouldn't benefit from Regenerator over Mold Breaker. As such, and because everyone's already all over how good it would be, I'd like to focus more on how it would interact with the metagame, and more specifically, Rotom-W.

First, let's look at the pros and cons of both Pokemon. Overall, M-Ampharos is way bulkier than Rotom-W thanks to its much higher HP stat and otherwise comparable defensive stats. However, Rotom-W possesses a superior defensive typing to even things out. Ampharos has good resistances, don't get me wrong, but Rotom-W's Ground immunity and single uncommon weakness give it more moves to switch in on overall. They also have different methods of recovery; Ampharos can resort to RestTalk and obviously will be utilizing its ability, but otherwise has fewer options available. Rotom-W, on the other hand, can utilize RestTalk, ChestoRest, Leftovers and Pain Split to varying degrees of success. Regenerator is more reliable than many of Rotom-W's options, but requires M-Ampharos to switch to work, and that isn't always going to be a favorable tactic. They also offer notably different movepools, though the big two to consider are Heal Bell for Ampharos and Will-O-Wisp for Rotom-W. These two moves are hugely important and allow both Pokemon to function quite differently from each other. Finally, it's important to note that Ampharos still needs to Mega Evolve to get those buffed defensive stats and its shiny new typing. This changes what it can come in on before it evolves, and means it needs to be in for a turn to make sure the Mega Evolution happens, or Regenerator won't come into effect.

So, I don't think M-Ampharos would outclass Rotom-W or really dent its usability much. They offer different things and fill different niches. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to see both of them on one team. They have decent synergy with one another; Rotom-W covers Ampharos' Ground and Ice weaknesses (disregarding Mold Breaker mons,) while Ampharos resists Grass for Rotom-W. That still leaves Dragon and Fairy, but another Pokemon could surely take those. It's not the most dynamic pairing I've ever seen, but an interesting one nonetheless.

As for how it would affect the rest of the metagame, Talonflame may see a dip in usage with another good answer becomes more viable. Many other threats regularly carry more threatening moves, however. In particular are the various faster Dragons and Pokemon with Ice-type coverage. Ampharos can switch into Azumarill's Water STAB fine (especially if Choice-locked,) but he's actually outsped by Azumarill, meaning a Play Rough will probably OHKO.

I'd like to talk more but I'm too tired. Anyway, words.

 

[Chou Toshio]

It regenerates the luscious mullet it had in its early 20s.

Honestly though, I don't see how Regenerator fits Mega Ampharos any less than it fits Mienshao, Audino, or Tornadus-T, and from a gameplay standpoint it provides some interesting possibilities in its role as a bulky pivot.

Just because there ARE examples of generic-slap-on by GF doesn't mean that it's fun for us to do the same as fans. They're the creators. What they do is official and they can do as they like. For us as fans, when we make up stuff, it has to have as much substance/logic backed up behind it as possible, or else it'll just be lame/boring/uninteresting to our fellow fans-- in fact, this NEED for SUBSTANCE behind theorymons is why this thread is so restricted (not allowing people to post theorymons at will).

In which case, those who are allowed to post theorymons have to be held to an even higher standard. Too many examples of generic pokes being matched with an overly-powerful ability means it's even HARDER to give that ability to Pokemon in theorymoning (ie. there's no real trend in who gets Extreme Speed, so it's even harder to justify giving it to things than say, Mega Horn, which belongs to Pokemon with horns).

As for Regenerator, MOST users DO make sense with it.

Slowpoke / bro / king-- long known to be able to regenerate their tails
Tangela / growth -- mass of vines that could just regrow
Reuniclus-- mass of plasma that could just re-form
Ho-oh-- phoenix rising from the ashes
Amoongus-- Mushroom just re-grows (heck, a Mushroom is just a sex organ, 90% of a fungi's body is invisible)
Corsola-- Coral re-grows (or doesn't with man around...)
Audino / Alomomola-- random healing mons

So generally, if you're going to give this ability, there has to be real context/sense behind it... Especially with such a generic (good for anything) ability that is damn good.

I think I've said enough on this subject. Let's just try to improve going forward.

 

[Knight of Cydonia]

Chou Toshio You have heard of rechargeable batteries right? Regenerator on an electric type makes more sense than a lot of gamefreak stuff anyway. As long as it would be balanced in the metagame and generates discussion I don't see a problem with this.

Anyway Regenerator Ampharos would be pretty good in the current meta, dragon electric stabs give amazing coverage and with regenerator rest talk would no longer be needed to make an amazing talonflame counter. Would make a fine alternative for Rotom-wash if you prefer power and heal bell to will o wisp.

 

[alexwolf]

Mmmm... Regenerator Ampharos...

I have to be honest and say that this is not a very interesting Theorymon. While this is a competitive forum, and the focus of discussion is on strategy, Theorymon threads originated in OI because the concept of Theorymonning is only really interesting when the theorymon has a flavor-based substance. It has to be fitting from a design aspect.

Anyone can realize that Huge Power Spiritomb or Magic Gaurd Moltres would be sweet but-- what's the point if you're just going to slap a broken ability or move onto a Pokemon it makes no sense on? There's nothing fun or interesting in that.

I hate to say it, but that's exactly what Regenerator Ampharose is this. What makes an electric Dragon/Mammal thing with a nothing-special physical form fitting for Regenerator? One of the best abilities in the whole game. There is no design precedence/similarities to be found between Ampharos and actual regenerator users.

I guess Sheep can re-grow hair, but then... can't anything? That's not regeneration...

I just want to make this statement for precedence now, so that the OP and participants will think about it when designing Theorymons going into the future-- a Theorymon without a design-based justification is a very boring thing. When the OP (or other posters who are given the right to post Theorymons) in the future post theorymons, they should open competitive discussion and outline a design-based justification.

I propose this be a requirement going into the future. Competitive discussion is the focus of this forum, but without a design justification, the "substance" to a theorymon becomes significantly weaker.


Now putting the design issue aside, Regenerator would be nice on Ampharos (as it would be nice on almost anything), but especially because Megas normally lack forms of recovery. Ampharos' bulk, power, and select resistances would make it effective at a hit-and-run style of play. It wouldn't be anything meta-game defining (ampharos would still get worn down fairly quickly by status and hazard damage, and isn't incredibly bulky, nor does it hit any harder than Choice Specs/LO Dragons), but it would be a nice additional Talonflame check. Getting destroyed by Pinser's EQ would make it unideal as a counter for "bird teams".

It is true that Regenerator is not specifically fitting from a design aspect, however what i mostly care is that we don't contradict the Pokemon's original design. I want us to focus mostly on the competitive merits of all those theorymon ideas so that we have the biggest pool of options possible. I am not willing to flush down the toilet theorymon ideas that are great from a competitive standpoint just because the theorymon addition doesn't make immediate sense design-wise.

As for Regenerator making anything great, i have to say two things. First, there are already Pokemon with Regenerator that aren't OU viable (Mienshao, Regenerator Reuniclus, and Alomomola), so Regenerator is not an auto-ticket to success in OU. Second and most importantly, i didn't pick Regenerator for Mega Ampharos just to give it a random boost, i did it because it's a buff that enhances Mega Ampharos's existing role and deals with the one thing that prevents it from being a good choice in OU, recovery. It is the perfect buff for it, competitive-wise, so rest assured, we won't be seeing random good stuff abilities given to bad Pokemon just for the sake of it. Also, i am going to allow only theorymon ideas that bring positives to the OU metagame and have useful implications, which means no Huge Power on random Pokemon. With Regenerator, Mega Ampharos becomes a great pivot, tank, and even wall, as well as cleric, checking a multitude threats with its newfound longevity, such as Talonflame, Rotom-W, Genesect, Mega Charizard Y, Heatran, Thundurus, Tornadus, Keldeo, Starmie, and many others, adding another great defensive Pokemon to OU's repertoire, as well as a good check to Volt-turn teams, which are positive additions. One could argue that Mega Ampharos can also wallbreak just fine, support threatening sweepers, and take part in Volt-turn teams, but OU has enough Ground-types and checks to it to prevent Mega Ampharos's negatives from overshadowing its positive presence in the metagame.

So, with this explanation, please refrain from talking about flavor here. As long as a theorymon idea doesn't contradict a Pokemon's design we are fine it is fair game in my books. This thread was made to discuss competitive merits of theorymon ideas, and competitive merits alone. Of course you can add a line about flavor in the end of your post, assuming the rest of your post had something meaningful, but that's it. No paragraphs and no arguing about flavor.

As for our current theorymon, i have to agree with most people who say that those two will manage to coexist and see similar amounts of use and usefulness. Rotom-W can deal with most Ground-types, can outspeed stuff, has WoW, Water STAB, and doesn't occupy your Mega Slot, while Mega Ampharos has way better overall bulk, power, coverage, Heal Bell, and auto recovery. It is also important to note that while Mega Ampharos counters Rotom-W, the opposite doesn't apply, so Rotom-W will also have to worry to not give to Mega Ampharos too many free switch-ins, which means that it will probably be spamming hell out of Volt Switch against teams with Mega Ampharos.

And as for Pokemon that can counter Mega Ampharos, i will mostly be looking at Ground-types, because all other Pokemon are just free recovery and momentum for Ampharos. First, we have specially defensive Hippowdon, perhaps the single best counter to Ampharos, which can wall even max SpA sets. Then we have Assault Vest Excadrill and Landorus-T, both of which can take at least one of Amphy's attacks and deal significant damage back, if not OHKO. Sheer Force Landorus is also a good offensive check, as it can take even a Dragon Pulse and OHKO back with Earth Power. Gastrodon could also see a slight pump in usage to check Mega Ampharos. We might even start seeing specially defensive variants of Lando-T to better deal with Mega Ampharos who knows.