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Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

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amzaneok said:
Prevents a switch in that threatens Scrafty from setting up a Swords Dance or Nasty Plot expecting the Parting Shot, and lets it sneak out safely to come back in for more Parting Shot fun. It functions like a two turn Memento that doesn't sack your user but still provides great momentum in cases where Scrafty has to switch anyways. It can scout double switches as well. Usually you'll go straight for the Parting Shot or Knock Off but if the enemy is packing something you don't have a great answer to mid to late game that Speed drop would save your bacon.

Scrafty doesn't have many other options to support its team mates anyways. May as well pack a situational move for assurance when it has the slots for it.
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But if you immediately use Parting Shot after coming in while they switch to their counter, your speed is irrelevant…why would you waste a turn dropping their speed in order to be faster with Parting Shot when you could just skip that and achieve basically the same thing? Unless you're trying to double cripple them by dropping Att, SpA AND Speed, this is just a waste of a turn. Here are the possible scenarios:

1) Scrafty switches in on something it forces out
2) Opponent switches to appropriate counter as Scrafty uses Scary Face
3) Scrafty uses Parting Shot as opponent switches out again, giving you momentum but leaving your opponent's Scrafty counter completely unscathed

1) Scrafty switches in on something it forces out
2) Opponent switches to appropriate counter as Scrafty uses Scary Face
3) Scrafty uses Parting Shot as opponent uses NP/CM/etc., leaving opponent -2 Spe and +0/+1 Att/SpA against whatever you switch in

1) Scrafty switches in on something it forces out
2) Opponent switches to appropriate counter as Scrafty uses Parting Shot, leaving opponent -1 Att/SpA and giving you momentum

The only situation in which Scary Face makes any difference is the second scenario, in which Parting Shot is basically moot because the opponent still got a free turn to boost as you used it. This is barely different from just using Scary Face on regular, non PS Scrafty. I don't see why it's worth a moveslot.
 
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amzaneok said:
Prevents a switch in that threatens Scrafty from setting up a Swords Dance or Nasty Plot expecting the Parting Shot, and lets it sneak out safely to come back in for more Parting Shot fun. It functions like a two turn Memento that doesn't sack your user but still provides great momentum in cases where Scrafty has to switch anyways. It can scout double switches as well. Usually you'll go straight for the Parting Shot or Knock Off but if the enemy is packing something you don't have a great answer to mid to late game that Speed drop would save your bacon.

Scrafty doesn't have many other options to support its team mates anyways. May as well pack a situational move for assurance when it has the slots for it.
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... No. I don't know how much more I can say this, but Scary Face is redundant and inferior to Parting Shot. The large majority of Pokemon will either be too slow to care about the speed drop or too fast to be outsped by Scrafty anyway. It's just a waste of a turn and a moveslot. It's not like there's nothing else that could go there.

Togekiss will be outsped by Scrafty after a Scary Face, but it only has base 80 Speed and may be packing Thunder Wave anyway. Mega Pinsir, my immediate thought for a switch-in, still outspeeds Scrafty after a Scary Face and OHKO's with Return. Talonflame bypasses speed with Gale Wings and OHKO's with Brave Bird. So on and so forth.

Also...

alexwolf said:
Checking some dangerous and common Pokemon such as Aegislash, Mamoswine, DD Mega Tyranitar, DD Mega Gyarados, and Excadrill is just the means to reach the goal, which is use Parting Shit.
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Just wanted to point that out. =P
 
Ryolain said:
But if you immediately use Parting Shot after coming in while they switch to their counter, your speed is irrelevant…why would you waste a turn dropping their speed in order to be faster with Parting Shot when you could just skip that and achieve basically the same thing? Unless you're trying to double cripple them by dropping Att, SpA AND Speed, this is just a waste of a turn. Here are the possible scenarios:

1) Scrafty switches in on something it forces out
2) Opponent switches to appropriate counter as Scrafty uses Scary Face
3) Scrafty uses Parting Shot as opponent switches out again, giving you momentum but leaving your opponent's Scrafty counter completely unscathed

1) Scrafty switches in on something it forces out
2) Opponent switches to appropriate counter as Scrafty uses Scary Face
3) Scrafty uses Parting Shot as opponent uses NP/CM/etc., leaving opponent -2 Spe and +0/+1 Att/SpA against whatever you switch in

1) Scrafty switches in on something it forces out
2) Opponent switches to appropriate counter as Scrafty uses Parting Shot, leaving opponent -1 Att/SpA and giving you momentum

The only situation in which Scary Face makes any difference is the second scenario, in which Parting Shot is basically moot because the opponent still got a free turn to boost as you used it. This is barely different from just using Scary Face on regular, non PS Scrafty. I don't see why it's worth a moveslot.
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Case one is relevant because of free entry hazards damage, Leftovers recovery, and landing in the same place where case three leaves you.

Case two is a good situation because it makes the opponent ridiculously easy to force out with a setup sweeper or attacker who was originally slower. If the opponent sets up as you use Parting Shot, your switch in is still coming in unscathed and gets to attack first. If it goes for an attack instead of setting up, your switch in is still going to get hit just the same if it's originally slower, but the opponent has more pressure and prevention of a sweep with the -2 Speed and -1 Attack and Special Attack.

Case three is the most common situation with this set. Nothing is stopping you from going straight for the Parting Shot, especially on slower threats who you have teammates who can outpace them.

Scary Face is there for the situation where a mid to late game sweep is a threat to your team, and can scout double switches pretty well. The Speed drop is a complete stop to any attempts to set up on Scrafty by offensive opponents such as Terrakion, Latios, Alakazam, Thundurus, and so on. It can also let you remove a Choice Band or Specs or Life Orb before getting hit the next turn, reducing the damage Scrafty receives. Thanks to whoever brought up the point about the Speed drop not working well with how slow Scrafty is without investment. I'm considering a spread of 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 Spe (I think) is best in order to outpace Thundurus after a Scary Face, but I'm not sure what KOs will arise from the Defense loss.

Drain Punch is the only thing that has any place on the Scary Face slot of that set and despite having STAB, it's going to do disappointing damage (and therefore recovery) every time, so you're likely better off just using Parting Shot immediately anyways. A utility Scrafty with Parting Shot's main purpose is to grief the opposing team and help a team mate get in successfully.
 
... Man, this discussion just up and died. Are we out of things to say about Scrafty now that we can't discuss Scary Face? =P

Anyway, I like the set that alexwolf posted most recently. I didn't even think of Taunt on Scrafty, and while it might be a little bit tricky to use (with little recovery, you generally don't want to take hits when you don't need to, so getting smacked decently hard while Taunting kind of sucks,) it's still a great option. That post in particular does a great job illustrating the potential this theorymon has, and it more or less convinced me that this mon would be a big threat to watch for.

I wanted to go a bit more in detail about what kind of teams benefit or are hurt by this guy, but thinking about it I don't know that he really affects what kind of teams are viable. Any offensive team with a setup sweeper obviously benefits from the addition, but it doesn't make setting up on a stall team necessarily easier. It basically gives offensive teams a tool against other offensive teams, which is neat.
 
Seiterman said:
... Man, this discussion just up and died. Are we out of things to say about Scrafty now that we can't discuss Scary Face? =P

Anyway, I like the set that alexwolf posted most recently. I didn't even think of Taunt on Scrafty, and while it might be a little bit tricky to use (with little recovery, you generally don't want to take hits when you don't need to, so getting smacked decently hard while Taunting kind of sucks,) it's still a great option. That post in particular does a great job illustrating the potential this theorymon has, and it more or less convinced me that this mon would be a big threat to watch for.

I wanted to go a bit more in detail about what kind of teams benefit or are hurt by this guy, but thinking about it I don't know that he really affects what kind of teams are viable. Any offensive team with a setup sweeper obviously benefits from the addition, but it doesn't make setting up on a stall team necessarily easier. It basically gives offensive teams a tool against other offensive teams, which is neat.
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It is indeed a nice set...but as you said, I don't know if there is really anything left. It just seems like another one of those things that would be nice to have, but nothing impactful (like Empoleon might have been I guess...)
I just don't really know whats next. What would benefit from this guy more than what we could get from something else?
 
Parting Shot Scrafty is an interesting idea. It could copy Pangoro's Scarf set, but I'm not sure that it would be much better. A bulky defensive pivot similar to alexwolf's post on the last page seems like the best use of Parting Shot to me. It would be a great supporter for frailer offensive teammates. Combined with Intimidate, Scrafty could force a lot of switches and easily capitalize on them with the momentum from Parting Shot. Scrafty gets a lot of mileage out of its two excellent STABs in Drain Punch and Knock Off, leaving the last slot for Taunt to shut down stall.
 
Here are some scary sweepers that would like Scrafty's Parting Shot support a lot:

BU / NP Thundurus

Let's take a look at some Pokemon who don't care about Scrafty's STABs or Taunt and can threaten Scrafty back: Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, Azumarill, Conkeldurr, Keldeo, Mega Mawile, Tornadus-T, Clefable, Mega Venusaur, Mega Charizard Y. If Scrafty catches any of those Pokemon on the switch with Parting Shot, most of them become set up bait for Thundurus, with BU allowing for eaisier set up against Talonflame, Azumarill, Conkeldurr, Mega Pinsir, and Mega Mawile, and NP giving more immediate power in the case of a forced switch.

Bulky DD Mega Charizard X

Mega Char X can switch into the aforementioned list of Pokemon relatively easy, start boosting with DD, and heal the damage with Roost, as most of those Pokemon can't do more than 50% to Mega Char X after Parting Shot.

Tail Glow Manaphy

It's no wonder that one of the bulkiets set up sweepers in OU would pair well with Scrafty. Getting a Tail Glow with Parting Shot support has never been eaiser, and you can even set up and win against some of Manaphy's traditional counters this way, such as Mega Venusaur. -1 Giga Drain from defensive Mega Venusaur does 37.5 - 44.5%, so if Manaphy has Psychic it can easily set up a Tail Glow, OHKO, and still have ~65% of its life left. If you use a bukier spread and Modest, you don't even need to use Psychic and can get away with using Ice Beam.

Swords Dance + Roost Talonflame

While SD Talonflame is a great cleaner against offensive teams, getting that free turn to set up is never easy if the opponent's checks and counters are worn down to the point that Talonflame can get past them. Parting Shot fixes this problem, and in combination with a few HP EVs and Roost allows Talonflame to set up and have enough life to sweep through the opponent. For example, assuming 48 HP Talonflame, -1 defensive Mega Venusaur does 33.3 - 39.8% with Sludge Bomb, -1 Mega Mawile does 39.8 - 46.6% with Play Rough, -1 Mega Charizard Y does 45.6 - 54% with Fire Blast, and -1 Conkeldurr does 34.9 - 41.4% with Knock Off if you have an item, otherwise it's strongest option is Ice Punch, which does 27.5 - 32.3%.

Belly Drum Sitrus Berry Azumarill

Same concept as SD Talonflame, deadly as fuck against offensive teams if it manages to set up, but finding the turn to set up is easier said than done. If Scrafty hits those Pokemon with Parting Shot as they come in, Azumarill can set up on quite a bit of them. For example, Specs Keldeo does 31.2 - 36.8% with Hydro Pump to 4 HP Azumarill, meaning that Azumarill can set up, always survive the second Hydro Pump, and OHKO back. LO Tornadus-T does 48.2 - 57.3% to 4 HP Azumarill, so it can set up and OHKO back with Aqua Jet. Adamant Mega Mawile does 65.2 - 77.1% to 4 HP Azumarill with Play Rough, meaning that with SR off the field, Azumarill has a pretty big chance to survive, set up, and OHKO back with Aqua Jet.

Expect the next slate in a few hours, so if you have anything left to say about Scrafty, hurry up.
 
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Alexwolf's post is good but the Pokemon on that list are very capable of entering without the support of parting shot. They at all easily able to switch in on something they threaten and proceed to set up. That parting shot is only if you must send out those Pokemon against something they don't scare out, and the only Pokemon they don't scare are their counters.


Parting shot scrafty seems like an unnecessary slot. Yes it helps mitigate damage while your sweeper sets up. Nice luxury and a good idea if your team doesn't need anything critical covered, because scrafty certainly doesn't.
 
Discussion about Scrafty is now over, thanks guys! Here is our next slate:
  • Ghost / Dark Mega Banette (alexwolf)
  • Bulletproof Metagross (Chou Toshio)
  • Intimidate Rhyperior (Super Mario Bro)
  • Competitive Azelf (U-Ralph)
You have 24 hours to vote. Only vote for one theorymon, and the theorymon with the most votes wins. Don't forget to bold your votes, otherwise they won't count. In the case of a tie, we will vote again for the two theorymon that tied, with another day time limit. Start voting!
 
I can actually be on to end this one! :D

Hmm, Banette is....an odd one? I don't see that doing much tbt.

Metagross...with BulletProof? YES!!!!

I can't approve the Intimidate Rhyperior. I'm sorry, but it just seems odd. The Solid Rock set allows him to mitigate his special weakness which he could not do with Intimidate.

I like the Azelf one too.

but still, Bulletproof Meta
 
Ghost/Dark M-Banette is definitely an improvement, but it was previously still decimated by strong neutral attacks which are all over the tier and still will be.

Bulletproof Metagross is really only benefiting from the immunity to shadow ball which now allows it to semi-reliably check Aegislash and Gengar. But Knock off still exists so it's not gonna be some Pokemon without any real weaknesses as I feel like it'll be perceived.

Intimidate Rhyperior is simply outclassed by Solid Rock, a much more useful ability. It doesn't need anymore extra bulk on the physical side.

Competitive Azelf is very interesting. A new pokemon that can take advantage of defog from the special side that is very fast and very powerful. If one carried both Bisharp and Azelf they could pretty much take on any defogger. Bisharp would take the Latis, and Azelf would take Mandibuzz, Scizor, Skarmory and others. I'm gonna go with Competitive Azelf. Even though it's frail as fuck and doesn't have any priority it's potential is high.
 
As neat as Bulletproof Metagross sounds flavor-wise, realistically it doesn't change much except letter him beat Gengar, Alakazam and non-SD Aegislash. He's still gonna get murdered by any Fire or Ground attack.

Competitive Azelf seems interesting as kind of a special Bisharp meant to punish Defoggers. Interesting, but I feel like it would still be too situational. Bisharp wrecks shit even without Defiant.

I'm gonna go with Ghost/Dark MBanette, it's basically a super buffed Sableye, which already trolls the hell out of a lot of the tier. I like it.
 
Metagross had a huge number of problems last gen even when it was neutral to shadow ball. I don't see bulletproof allowing it to shine at all. Everything else bulletproof gives it an immunity to is either extremely rare, neutral, or metagross is already immune to.

I can see Competative Azelf as having a small niche, though its pathetic bulk would allow some defoggers to predict its switch in and OHKO.

4 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Azelf: 300-354 (103 - 121.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Azelf has Timid and 0 Atk)
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 368-434 (126.4 - 149.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

By contrast, Bisharp can safely switch into pretty much every defogger.

Edit: After realizing solid rock doesn't reduce super effective hits by 1/2 like I thought, I am changing my vote to Intimidate Rhyperior.
 
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Ryolain said:
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 139-165 (38.1 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Ehhh…I mean you win, but not by much.
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And since when has regular gengar been a huge problem, or at least enough to want to use Metagross over the multitude of better counters? I would think that Aegislash would serve as a larger threat overall, but again, metagross faces serious competition from other counters.
 
Bulletproof Metagross. I've always wanted to see what would happen if Bulletproof was given to another Mon.

Ghost/Dark MegaNette is way too close to Sableye for my liking. They're already stiff competition.
 
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