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Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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I'm definitely voting for Slack Off Mega Blastoise (not to say Normal/Fairy Blissey and Defog Hydreigon are bad). Blastoise has a shockingly great movepool that allows it to be completely tailored for any team's needs for coverage. Recovery now allows it to be an incredibly effective spinner, a good bulky attacker, and it can even shuffle well with Roar.
But most importantly, it's kind of cute.
But most importantly, it's kind of cute.
I assume yes. It would be stupid and unnecessary programming to require Blastoisinite in order for Blastoise to have Slack Off in its moveset.
Megas inherently 'resist' Knock Off by not having a Knock Offable item
Mega Blastoise doesn't really care about Bisharp or Defiant Thundurus because it uses Rapid Spin, not Defog. Defiant Thundy will kill Hydreigon if it switches into Defog though.
Also, I know alexwolf doesn't want us talking about Theorymons vs. Theorymons, but Hydreigon also does not want to feed Braviary with Defog. So Hydreigon doesn't really do very well against two of the three good Defiant users in OU Theorymons. However, Mega Blastoise does nuke every OU spinblocker with Dark Pulse, which makes it better overall at its job of removing hazards.
why would bisharp face blastoise with the threat of aura sphere? Especially when:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 309-367 (85.3 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
and that's worse case scenario for mega blastoise. Hell:
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 271-321 (97.1 - 115%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 222-262 (79.5 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I mean, idk why bisharp would ever want to be in against mega blastoise
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 309-367 (85.3 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
and that's worse case scenario for mega blastoise. Hell:
252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 271-321 (97.1 - 115%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Water Pulse vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 222-262 (79.5 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I mean, idk why bisharp would ever want to be in against mega blastoise
Slack off is without a doubt, definitely what blastoise needs IMO. Blastoise can serve as both a supporter, as well as a bulky attacker. And both of these can really some reliable healing to function better. Definitely voting for this option, since its the only option that would make a big difference.
Now about Mega Blastoise vs Bisharp, grassycow , if the mega blastoise is weakened, all it would really need to do it heal up with slack off. Bisharp is slower, and relatively predictable. In the case it uses swords dance, it kinda becomes a game of predictions. The one who predicts properly wins in this fight.
Defog hydreigon isn't bad. But its one of those 'nice addition' sort of moves hydreigon should/can have, but adding it isn't exactly top priority or anything.
Now about Mega Blastoise vs Bisharp, grassycow , if the mega blastoise is weakened, all it would really need to do it heal up with slack off. Bisharp is slower, and relatively predictable. In the case it uses swords dance, it kinda becomes a game of predictions. The one who predicts properly wins in this fight.
Defog hydreigon isn't bad. But its one of those 'nice addition' sort of moves hydreigon should/can have, but adding it isn't exactly top priority or anything.
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252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 156-185 (43 - 51.1%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
blastoise needs to be pretty damn weakend for bisharp to even consider staying in, especially with slack off and blastoise's power now
blastoise needs to be pretty damn weakend for bisharp to even consider staying in, especially with slack off and blastoise's power now
No. Any theorymon created is added in a vacuum unless stated otherwise. It doesn't matter if in-game regular Blastoise would get Slack Off too, you can consider regular Slack Off Blastoise banned for all i care. The point of those theorymons is to examine their impact in the metagame, which gets harder to do if other Pokemon get in the way. In this case, regular Blastoise is not viable at all, but there are other cases where the regular forme of the MEvo could be viable, and so it could possibly steal the spotilight of the theorymon the community voted for.
Are you really going to have this enforced on the ladder? This sounds like an unnecessary pain in the ass for the PS staff.
I remember the rule being mentioned in a much earlier set of Theorymon (I think applied to a mon that lost the voting round,) and I believe it's been a thing since the beginning. Basically, it would have been enforced since the start if any examples of it actually came up.
Can I just pop in and ask why the hell are we talking about Bisharp? Shouldn't we be talking about the actual Pokemon and not Bisharp against Mega Blastiose ~_~.
Anywho, I'll picking my vote for Defog Hydriegon because of how much influences the meta-game. It's a Defogger that packs at least one move for any Pokemon, it's not weak to pursuit, and in all honesty it would be amazing to use just because it wouldn't be completely biased towards the meta-game, as Lati@s has it's merits of being faster, which can be very important, where as Zapdos can stop things like flying spam. It was close, but I decided against Slack Off M.Blastiose as it would arguably be the single most used spinner, there would be little reason to use Excadrill if Mega Blastiose's has that already great bulk paired with a reliable recovery move, yeah and thanks to a few people not using MEvos on thier team, it would be pretty biased towards the meta-game.
Anywho, I'll picking my vote for Defog Hydriegon because of how much influences the meta-game. It's a Defogger that packs at least one move for any Pokemon, it's not weak to pursuit, and in all honesty it would be amazing to use just because it wouldn't be completely biased towards the meta-game, as Lati@s has it's merits of being faster, which can be very important, where as Zapdos can stop things like flying spam. It was close, but I decided against Slack Off M.Blastiose as it would arguably be the single most used spinner, there would be little reason to use Excadrill if Mega Blastiose's has that already great bulk paired with a reliable recovery move, yeah and thanks to a few people not using MEvos on thier team, it would be pretty biased towards the meta-game.
That would be way too broken, considering the best way to take down cresselia is to stall it.
Also, alexwolf, one more thing I don't understand. It would be kinda odd if mega blastoise would get slack off and not the normal form, since all megas have to be in their normal form before becoming a mega = P
So blastoise COULD use slack off without Mega evolving, but it'd need a mega stone attached.
As far as I can tell, it'd be impossible, or at least unreasonably difficult, to prevent it from using slack off before MEvolving, but why would you want to? It's pretty easy to prevent non-stone carrying Blastoises from having it, and there's absolutely no reason to delay mega evolving.
Still cant be stalled, and that's just asking for a flame orb psycho shift set
As Siiilver mentioned, if you wanted Slack Off on your movepool you should simply have to hold Blastoisite. No more talk about technicalities, let's discuss the actual theorymons please. Speaking of which, i forgot how good bulk Mega Blastoise has, and how good power even with no SpA investment. For example, with max HP / max Def+ and Aura Shpere, it can counter Bisharp quite easily:
- +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Blastoise: 231-273 (63.8 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 0 SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 600-708 (215 - 253.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
*puts on official Voting clothes*
Remember yall, if you have already made a PM that has prior Theory mon votes in it, please send your future votes in that as it makes it much easier than you just sending new ones every time and clogging the inbox. Hope its a varied vote and let it go in your favor.
HAPPY VOTING!
Remember yall, if you have already made a PM that has prior Theory mon votes in it, please send your future votes in that as it makes it much easier than you just sending new ones every time and clogging the inbox. Hope its a varied vote and let it go in your favor.
HAPPY VOTING!
Ik, I was even keeping it open for votes a little longer to see if I got any for them, yet all I got was more Blastoise votes. Was a little disheartening.
I'm not voting for normal/normal typing.
......................wow I did type that didn't I?
Let's go to our next slate, which will consist of second placers in the last 4 votings:
- Defog Hydreigon (grassycow)
- Fur Coat Aromatisse (Red Cat)
- Volt Absorb Jellicent (escarlata)
- Grass / Dragon Sceptile
- Prankster Gourgeist (Red Cat)
Glad to see Prankster Gourgeist back up to discuss. The Pumpkin has been a personal favorite of mine since I first found it, and I'm eager to see it put to even better use. So, here's the take of a competitive novice on Prankster Gourgeist.
First thing that comes to mind is the obvious SubSeed. Unlike a number of other users of the strategy, Gourgeist actually has decent bulk, and probably won't be relying on too many non-status moves anyway, which alleviates the issue of its lower speed. It's defensive Typing also grants it a fair number of switch-ins, resisting a fair number of Special Attacking types such as Water and Electric that would prey on it's lower Special Defense, not to mention immunity of its own to Seeds and Spores.
Priority Pain Split gives it semi-reliable recovery as long as the opponent has a healthy team member left, and gives a weakened Gourgeist the option to cut down an enemy mon's health, which can in many cases be the difference between a check and a counter's reliability for a match up. Between this and SubSeeding, Gourgeist is annoyingly difficult to wear down passively. There's the priority status moves, with Will-o-Wisp stopping Physical Attackers dead and Toxic shitting on enemy Stallers.
Last, though not exclusive to Gourgeist, Leech Seed does offer an (admittedly very long) timer to Baton Pass teams, which take it with them to keep their boosts. One tiny advantage Gourgeist does have in that regard is that, unlike Whimsicott (which is what I tend to see most often among SubSeeders), it's bulk and typing means it doesn't have to fear Scolipede running Poison STAB, however rare that may actually be, and its Subs can usually avoid breaking from its attacks, meaning its safe to go straight to seeding it.
4 Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 82-97 (21.9 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
And if worst comes to worst, he's got Priority Destiny Bond for one last hurrah, taking down at least one enemy with him, even through Magic Bounce. Since Baton Pass Teams tend to rely on one particular "un-phazable" mon to hold the boosts and momentum, eliminating said member tends to throw a serious wrench in the strategy. While Bannette could do the same, Gourgeist allows the use of another Mega, which opens its usability up to a significantly greater number of teams.
The other candidates all have their own equally notable merit, but whereas they either add a new niche to the mon (Defog Hydreigon) or somewhat improve their current role (Volt Absorb's immunity is a boon, but Jellicent still won't enjoy strong Grass, Ghost and Dark moves, which is a problem with Knock Off abound), Prankster just makes Gourgeist work so perfectly in what's already probably its most effective roles.
First thing that comes to mind is the obvious SubSeed. Unlike a number of other users of the strategy, Gourgeist actually has decent bulk, and probably won't be relying on too many non-status moves anyway, which alleviates the issue of its lower speed. It's defensive Typing also grants it a fair number of switch-ins, resisting a fair number of Special Attacking types such as Water and Electric that would prey on it's lower Special Defense, not to mention immunity of its own to Seeds and Spores.
Priority Pain Split gives it semi-reliable recovery as long as the opponent has a healthy team member left, and gives a weakened Gourgeist the option to cut down an enemy mon's health, which can in many cases be the difference between a check and a counter's reliability for a match up. Between this and SubSeeding, Gourgeist is annoyingly difficult to wear down passively. There's the priority status moves, with Will-o-Wisp stopping Physical Attackers dead and Toxic shitting on enemy Stallers.
Last, though not exclusive to Gourgeist, Leech Seed does offer an (admittedly very long) timer to Baton Pass teams, which take it with them to keep their boosts. One tiny advantage Gourgeist does have in that regard is that, unlike Whimsicott (which is what I tend to see most often among SubSeeders), it's bulk and typing means it doesn't have to fear Scolipede running Poison STAB, however rare that may actually be, and its Subs can usually avoid breaking from its attacks, meaning its safe to go straight to seeding it.
4 Atk Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 82-97 (21.9 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
And if worst comes to worst, he's got Priority Destiny Bond for one last hurrah, taking down at least one enemy with him, even through Magic Bounce. Since Baton Pass Teams tend to rely on one particular "un-phazable" mon to hold the boosts and momentum, eliminating said member tends to throw a serious wrench in the strategy. While Bannette could do the same, Gourgeist allows the use of another Mega, which opens its usability up to a significantly greater number of teams.
The other candidates all have their own equally notable merit, but whereas they either add a new niche to the mon (Defog Hydreigon) or somewhat improve their current role (Volt Absorb's immunity is a boon, but Jellicent still won't enjoy strong Grass, Ghost and Dark moves, which is a problem with Knock Off abound), Prankster just makes Gourgeist work so perfectly in what's already probably its most effective roles.
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