You're right actually, although I can't help but nitpick and say that I did say later on that I personally didn't think it had 4MSS only that it might appear to, due to the many moves you may want to run. So, Roost, Moonblast, Roar/Perish Song, and Toxic would be my best bet for it, or Heal Bell. I can't think of anything else that it may want to run.
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You're right actually, although I can't help but nitpick and say that I did say later on that I personally didn't think it had 4MSS only that it might appear to, due to the many moves you may want to run. So, Roost, Moonblast, Roar/Perish Song, and Toxic would be my best bet for it, or Heal Bell. I can't think of anything else that it may want to run.
^I agree that sounds like it would be the standard set.
I think the difference between running Haze and Roar, is the way Altaria wants to be played. Are you trying to toxic stall or are you trying to force a switch. If you put haze on Altaria, it fills a role similar to Gliscor. Come in on a plethora of pokemon; toxic; and stall out. Obviously if you're forcing it to switch with roar it can't do that. Roar means Altaria has to rely more on it's teammates to finish the job, while Haze means it really is doing it's job by itself. Certain sets are better against certain pokemon I guess, just like any other mon with a variety of sets.
Here a list ot the top 50 usage pokemon of january, blue means pokemon are completly walled and can be threaten back with toxic/moonblast, orange means they are not checked all the time ( depending of movesets ) or/and don't fear toxic/moonblast.
Even if i'm maybe a bit optimistic with the orange color, the blue one clearly shows a good part of the top 50 pokemons are effectivly checked by altaria. Something around 1/3.
Edit: the list goes until the 100th now
Even if i'm maybe a bit optimistic with the orange color, the blue one clearly shows a good part of the top 50 pokemons are effectivly checked by altaria. Something around 1/3.
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage % | Raw | % | Real | % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Rotom-Wash | 22.49265% | 1041549 | 18.350% | 895153 | 19.802% |
| 2 | Aegislash | 15.97556% | 834687 | 14.705% | 655854 | 14.508% |
| 3 | Talonflame | 15.74070% | 800956 | 14.111% | 636544 | 14.081% |
| 4 | Genesect | 14.53002% | 634431 | 11.177% | 537221 | 11.884% |
| 5 | Greninja | 14.19348% | 790844 | 13.933% | 619123 | 13.696% |
| 6 | Charizard | 13.77323% | 792434 | 13.961% | 639895 | 14.155% |
| 7 | Lucario | 12.87761% | 651924 | 11.485% | 488440 | 10.805% |
| 8 | Heatran | 11.73658% | 513682 | 9.050% | 435850 | 9.641% |
| 9 | Gliscor | 11.72815% | 668904 | 11.784% | 526083 | 11.638% |
| 10 | Garchomp | 11.44394% | 620220 | 10.927% | 470958 | 10.418% |
| 11 | Azumarill | 11.15559% | 593981 | 10.465% | 477891 | 10.571% |
| 12 | Scizor | 10.94532% | 587543 | 10.351% | 456599 | 10.100% |
| 13 | Ferrothorn | 10.90300% | 595356 | 10.489% | 516346 | 11.422% |
| 14 | Tyranitar | 10.80216% | 562541 | 9.911% | 462226 | 10.225% |
| 15 | Conkeldurr | 10.33073% | 466601 | 8.220% | 384081 | 8.496% |
| 16 | Excadrill | 10.16483% | 519060 | 9.145% | 385959 | 8.538% |
| 17 | Dragonite | 9.84951% | 569727 | 10.037% | 428071 | 9.469% |
| 18 | Venusaur | 8.73993% | 468405 | 8.252% | 372576 | 8.242% |
| 19 | Mandibuzz | 8.64025% | 392938 | 6.923% | 319459 | 7.067% |
| 20 | Gengar | 8.12554% | 490017 | 8.633% | 368614 | 8.154% |
| 21 | Espeon | 7.32040% | 437537 | 7.708% | 336606 | 7.446% |
| 22 | Mamoswine | 7.10444% | 356913 | 6.288% | 302978 | 6.702% |
| 23 | Goodra | 6.98311% | 399921 | 7.046% | 312977 | 6.923% |
| 24 | Alakazam | 6.87489% | 425517 | 7.497% | 309548 | 6.848% |
| 25 | Landorus-Therian | 6.74423% | 271370 | 4.781% | 235178 | 5.202% |
| 26 | Togekiss | 6.57165% | 383400 | 6.755% | 299166 | 6.618% |
| 27 | Skarmory | 6.54755% | 344115 | 6.062% | 293199 | 6.486% |
| 28 | Breloom | 6.30512% | 365982 | 6.448% | 285141 | 6.308% |
| 29 | Infernape | 6.04436% | 369789 | 6.515% | 301647 | 6.673% |
| 30 | Volcarona | 5.97567% | 346964 | 6.113% | 266886 | 5.904% |
| 31 | Gyarados | 5.96862% | 323688 | 5.703% | 258863 | 5.726% |
| 32 | Latios | 5.93731% | 273007 | 4.810% | 205406 | 4.544% |
| 33 | Mawile | 5.59558% | 292672 | 5.156% | 224852 | 4.974% |
| 34 | Trevenant | 5.38363% | 321296 | 5.660% | 246525 | 5.453% |
| 35 | Cloyster | 5.29356% | 375250 | 6.611% | 286553 | 6.339% |
| 36 | Pinsir | 5.10255% | 249615 | 4.398% | 187068 | 4.138% |
| 37 | Blissey | 4.82726% | 301935 | 5.319% | 230572 | 5.100% |
| 38 | Sableye | 4.67101% | 259088 | 4.565% | 223362 | 4.941% |
| 39 | Smeargle | 4.65684% | 312633 | 5.508% | 282844 | 6.257% |
| 40 | Sylveon | 4.54197% | 267733 | 4.717% | 205896 | 4.555% |
| 41 | Klefki | 4.54088% | 258257 | 4.550% | 223603 | 4.946% |
| 42 | Clefable | 4.45544% | 226826 | 3.996% | 180095 | 3.984% |
| 43 | Donphan | 4.43352% | 238831 | 4.208% | 200697 | 4.440% |
| 44 | Galvantula | 4.38469% | 236896 | 4.174% | 212948 | 4.711% |
| 45 | Starmie | 4.28082% | 238899 | 4.209% | 179258 | 3.965% |
| 46 | Tentacruel | 4.17835% | 222140 | 3.914% | 180541 | 3.994% |
| 47 | Forretress | 3.76538% | 231888 | 4.085% | 201652 | 4.461% |
| 48 | Bisharp | 3.73378% | 167828 | 2.957% | 129322 | 2.861% |
| 49 | Salamence | 3.65508% | 230599 | 4.063% | 171932 | 3.803% |
| 50 | Thundurus | 3.25523% | 139929 | 2.465% | 114104 | 2.524% |
| 51 | Blastoise | 3.10057% | 193862 | 3.415% | 156613 | 3.464% |
| 52 | Gardevoir | 3.07436% | 206153 | 3.632% | 155719 | 3.445% |
| 53 | Scolipede | 3.06854% | 196956 | 3.470% | 167704 | 3.710% |
| 54 | Vaporeon | 3.02884% | 186288 | 3.282% | 148867 | 3.293% |
| 55 | Latias | 2.98364% | 131349 | 2.314% | 99028 | 2.191% |
| 56 | Terrakion | 2.94589% | 135486 | 2.387% | 102076 | 2.258% |
| 57 | Ditto | 2.91389% | 155546 | 2.740% | 121081 | 2.678% |
| 58 | Jolteon | 2.91352% | 191505 | 3.374% | 152946 | 3.383% |
| 59 | Medicham | 2.90186% | 159909 | 2.817% | 125895 | 2.785% |
| 60 | Hydreigon | 2.85801% | 178874 | 3.151% | 137115 | 3.033% |
| 61 | Landorus | 2.84163% | 117011 | 2.061% | 90795 | 2.008% |
| 62 | Slowbro | 2.83238% | 145778 | 2.568% | 118020 | 2.611% |
| 63 | Noivern | 2.74688% | 162545 | 2.864% | 127741 | 2.826% |
| 64 | Chandelure | 2.73157% | 165242 | 2.911% | 131379 | 2.906% |
| 65 | Manectric | 2.70189% | 128944 | 2.272% | 107196 | 2.371% |
| 66 | Heracross | 2.67224% | 167517 | 2.951% | 126449 | 2.797% |
| 67 | Jirachi | 2.63823% | 147921 | 2.606% | 116459 | 2.576% |
| 68 | Chansey | 2.59036% | 128410 | 2.262% | 100722 | 2.228% |
| 69 | Deoxys-Speed | 2.56200% | 110175 | 1.941% | 97467 | 2.156% |
| 70 | Kyurem-Black | 2.50267% | 121241 | 2.136% | 91707 | 2.029% |
| 71 | Jellicent | 2.43209% | 135009 | 2.379% | 109409 | 2.420% |
| 72 | Metagross | 2.21588% | 163707 | 2.884% | 129252 | 2.859% |
| 73 | Umbreon | 2.20084% | 158900 | 2.799% | 122261 | 2.705% |
| 74 | Politoed | 2.14220% | 134113 | 2.363% | 119661 | 2.647% |
| 75 | Celebi | 2.12411% | 107703 | 1.897% | 84661 | 1.873% |
| 76 | Gastrodon | 2.11990% | 112137 | 1.976% | 92660 | 2.050% |
| 77 | Arcanine | 2.09232% | 138614 | 2.442% | 113826 | 2.518% |
| 78 | Porygon2 | 2.07674% | 109721 | 1.933% | 89263 | 1.975% |
| 79 | Florges | 2.05283% | 119427 | 2.104% | 91872 | 2.032% |
| 80 | Darmanitan | 2.03524% | 115687 | 2.038% | 94158 | 2.083% |
| 81 | Keldeo | 1.93776% | 91581 | 1.613% | 70312 | 1.555% |
| 82 | Deoxys-Defense | 1.93226% | 98704 | 1.739% | 88006 | 1.947% |
| 83 | Absol | 1.91073% | 123606 | 2.178% | 98026 | 2.168% |
| 84 | Reuniclus | 1.90254% | 107529 | 1.894% | 81961 | 1.813% |
| 85 | Magnezone | 1.86203% | 108829 | 1.917% | 86542 | 1.914% |
| 86 | Haxorus | 1.85150% | 122218 | 2.153% | 89577 | 1.982% |
| 87 | Aggron | 1.82739% | 133554 | 2.353% | 107465 | 2.377% |
| 88 | Diggersby | 1.79689% | 99624 | 1.755% | 77051 | 1.704% |
| 89 | Quagsire | 1.76083% | 90117 | 1.588% | 73241 | 1.620% |
| 90 | Crobat | 1.76030% | 110560 | 1.948% | 89753 | 1.985% |
| 91 | Crawdaunt | 1.74351% | 94176 | 1.659% | 75043 | 1.660% |
| 92 | Zapdos | 1.70466% | 82940 | 1.461% | 68137 | 1.507% |
| 93 | Weavile | 1.66146% | 105485 | 1.858% | 83545 | 1.848% |
| 94 | Manaphy | 1.65057% | 74413 | 1.311% | 59452 | 1.315% |
| 95 | Kingdra | 1.63296% | 106139 | 1.870% | 82210 | 1.819% |
| 96 | Whimsicott | 1.62574% | 98355 | 1.733% | 81935 | 1.812% |
| 97 | Ninetales | 1.57864% | 119349 | 2.103% | 101404 | 2.243% |
| 98 | Nidoking | 1.56860% | 95538 | 1.683% | 74728 | 1.653% |
| 99 | Thundurus-Therian | 1.50988% | 78698 | 1.386% | 62347 | 1.379% |
| 100 | Ambipom | 1.48169% | 94716 | 1.669% | 81963 | 1.813% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage % | Raw | % | Real | % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Rotom-Wash | 22.49265% | 1041549 | 18.350% | 895153 | 19.802% |
| 2 | Aegislash | 15.97556% | 834687 | 14.705% | 655854 | 14.508% |
| 3 | Talonflame | 15.74070% | 800956 | 14.111% | 636544 | 14.081% |
| 4 | Genesect | 14.53002% | 634431 | 11.177% | 537221 | 11.884% |
| 5 | Greninja | 14.19348% | 790844 | 13.933% | 619123 | 13.696% |
| 6 | Charizard | 13.77323% | 792434 | 13.961% | 639895 | 14.155% |
| 7 | Lucario | 12.87761% | 651924 | 11.485% | 488440 | 10.805% |
| 8 | Heatran | 11.73658% | 513682 | 9.050% | 435850 | 9.641% |
| 9 | Gliscor | 11.72815% | 668904 | 11.784% | 526083 | 11.638% |
| 10 | Garchomp | 11.44394% | 620220 | 10.927% | 470958 | 10.418% |
| 11 | Azumarill | 11.15559% | 593981 | 10.465% | 477891 | 10.571% |
| 12 | Scizor | 10.94532% | 587543 | 10.351% | 456599 | 10.100% |
| 13 | Ferrothorn | 10.90300% | 595356 | 10.489% | 516346 | 11.422% |
| 14 | Tyranitar | 10.80216% | 562541 | 9.911% | 462226 | 10.225% |
| 15 | Conkeldurr | 10.33073% | 466601 | 8.220% | 384081 | 8.496% |
| 16 | Excadrill | 10.16483% | 519060 | 9.145% | 385959 | 8.538% |
| 17 | Dragonite | 9.84951% | 569727 | 10.037% | 428071 | 9.469% |
| 18 | Venusaur | 8.73993% | 468405 | 8.252% | 372576 | 8.242% |
| 19 | Mandibuzz | 8.64025% | 392938 | 6.923% | 319459 | 7.067% |
| 20 | Gengar | 8.12554% | 490017 | 8.633% | 368614 | 8.154% |
| 21 | Espeon | 7.32040% | 437537 | 7.708% | 336606 | 7.446% |
| 22 | Mamoswine | 7.10444% | 356913 | 6.288% | 302978 | 6.702% |
| 23 | Goodra | 6.98311% | 399921 | 7.046% | 312977 | 6.923% |
| 24 | Alakazam | 6.87489% | 425517 | 7.497% | 309548 | 6.848% |
| 25 | Landorus-Therian | 6.74423% | 271370 | 4.781% | 235178 | 5.202% |
| 26 | Togekiss | 6.57165% | 383400 | 6.755% | 299166 | 6.618% |
| 27 | Skarmory | 6.54755% | 344115 | 6.062% | 293199 | 6.486% |
| 28 | Breloom | 6.30512% | 365982 | 6.448% | 285141 | 6.308% |
| 29 | Infernape | 6.04436% | 369789 | 6.515% | 301647 | 6.673% |
| 30 | Volcarona | 5.97567% | 346964 | 6.113% | 266886 | 5.904% |
| 31 | Gyarados | 5.96862% | 323688 | 5.703% | 258863 | 5.726% |
| 32 | Latios | 5.93731% | 273007 | 4.810% | 205406 | 4.544% |
| 33 | Mawile | 5.59558% | 292672 | 5.156% | 224852 | 4.974% |
| 34 | Trevenant | 5.38363% | 321296 | 5.660% | 246525 | 5.453% |
| 35 | Cloyster | 5.29356% | 375250 | 6.611% | 286553 | 6.339% |
| 36 | Pinsir | 5.10255% | 249615 | 4.398% | 187068 | 4.138% |
| 37 | Blissey | 4.82726% | 301935 | 5.319% | 230572 | 5.100% |
| 38 | Sableye | 4.67101% | 259088 | 4.565% | 223362 | 4.941% |
| 39 | Smeargle | 4.65684% | 312633 | 5.508% | 282844 | 6.257% |
| 40 | Sylveon | 4.54197% | 267733 | 4.717% | 205896 | 4.555% |
| 41 | Klefki | 4.54088% | 258257 | 4.550% | 223603 | 4.946% |
| 42 | Clefable | 4.45544% | 226826 | 3.996% | 180095 | 3.984% |
| 43 | Donphan | 4.43352% | 238831 | 4.208% | 200697 | 4.440% |
| 44 | Galvantula | 4.38469% | 236896 | 4.174% | 212948 | 4.711% |
| 45 | Starmie | 4.28082% | 238899 | 4.209% | 179258 | 3.965% |
| 46 | Tentacruel | 4.17835% | 222140 | 3.914% | 180541 | 3.994% |
| 47 | Forretress | 3.76538% | 231888 | 4.085% | 201652 | 4.461% |
| 48 | Bisharp | 3.73378% | 167828 | 2.957% | 129322 | 2.861% |
| 49 | Salamence | 3.65508% | 230599 | 4.063% | 171932 | 3.803% |
| 50 | Thundurus | 3.25523% | 139929 | 2.465% | 114104 | 2.524% |
| 51 | Blastoise | 3.10057% | 193862 | 3.415% | 156613 | 3.464% |
| 52 | Gardevoir | 3.07436% | 206153 | 3.632% | 155719 | 3.445% |
| 53 | Scolipede | 3.06854% | 196956 | 3.470% | 167704 | 3.710% |
| 54 | Vaporeon | 3.02884% | 186288 | 3.282% | 148867 | 3.293% |
| 55 | Latias | 2.98364% | 131349 | 2.314% | 99028 | 2.191% |
| 56 | Terrakion | 2.94589% | 135486 | 2.387% | 102076 | 2.258% |
| 57 | Ditto | 2.91389% | 155546 | 2.740% | 121081 | 2.678% |
| 58 | Jolteon | 2.91352% | 191505 | 3.374% | 152946 | 3.383% |
| 59 | Medicham | 2.90186% | 159909 | 2.817% | 125895 | 2.785% |
| 60 | Hydreigon | 2.85801% | 178874 | 3.151% | 137115 | 3.033% |
| 61 | Landorus | 2.84163% | 117011 | 2.061% | 90795 | 2.008% |
| 62 | Slowbro | 2.83238% | 145778 | 2.568% | 118020 | 2.611% |
| 63 | Noivern | 2.74688% | 162545 | 2.864% | 127741 | 2.826% |
| 64 | Chandelure | 2.73157% | 165242 | 2.911% | 131379 | 2.906% |
| 65 | Manectric | 2.70189% | 128944 | 2.272% | 107196 | 2.371% |
| 66 | Heracross | 2.67224% | 167517 | 2.951% | 126449 | 2.797% |
| 67 | Jirachi | 2.63823% | 147921 | 2.606% | 116459 | 2.576% |
| 68 | Chansey | 2.59036% | 128410 | 2.262% | 100722 | 2.228% |
| 69 | Deoxys-Speed | 2.56200% | 110175 | 1.941% | 97467 | 2.156% |
| 70 | Kyurem-Black | 2.50267% | 121241 | 2.136% | 91707 | 2.029% |
| 71 | Jellicent | 2.43209% | 135009 | 2.379% | 109409 | 2.420% |
| 72 | Metagross | 2.21588% | 163707 | 2.884% | 129252 | 2.859% |
| 73 | Umbreon | 2.20084% | 158900 | 2.799% | 122261 | 2.705% |
| 74 | Politoed | 2.14220% | 134113 | 2.363% | 119661 | 2.647% |
| 75 | Celebi | 2.12411% | 107703 | 1.897% | 84661 | 1.873% |
| 76 | Gastrodon | 2.11990% | 112137 | 1.976% | 92660 | 2.050% |
| 77 | Arcanine | 2.09232% | 138614 | 2.442% | 113826 | 2.518% |
| 78 | Porygon2 | 2.07674% | 109721 | 1.933% | 89263 | 1.975% |
| 79 | Florges | 2.05283% | 119427 | 2.104% | 91872 | 2.032% |
| 80 | Darmanitan | 2.03524% | 115687 | 2.038% | 94158 | 2.083% |
| 81 | Keldeo | 1.93776% | 91581 | 1.613% | 70312 | 1.555% |
| 82 | Deoxys-Defense | 1.93226% | 98704 | 1.739% | 88006 | 1.947% |
| 83 | Absol | 1.91073% | 123606 | 2.178% | 98026 | 2.168% |
| 84 | Reuniclus | 1.90254% | 107529 | 1.894% | 81961 | 1.813% |
| 85 | Magnezone | 1.86203% | 108829 | 1.917% | 86542 | 1.914% |
| 86 | Haxorus | 1.85150% | 122218 | 2.153% | 89577 | 1.982% |
| 87 | Aggron | 1.82739% | 133554 | 2.353% | 107465 | 2.377% |
| 88 | Diggersby | 1.79689% | 99624 | 1.755% | 77051 | 1.704% |
| 89 | Quagsire | 1.76083% | 90117 | 1.588% | 73241 | 1.620% |
| 90 | Crobat | 1.76030% | 110560 | 1.948% | 89753 | 1.985% |
| 91 | Crawdaunt | 1.74351% | 94176 | 1.659% | 75043 | 1.660% |
| 92 | Zapdos | 1.70466% | 82940 | 1.461% | 68137 | 1.507% |
| 93 | Weavile | 1.66146% | 105485 | 1.858% | 83545 | 1.848% |
| 94 | Manaphy | 1.65057% | 74413 | 1.311% | 59452 | 1.315% |
| 95 | Kingdra | 1.63296% | 106139 | 1.870% | 82210 | 1.819% |
| 96 | Whimsicott | 1.62574% | 98355 | 1.733% | 81935 | 1.812% |
| 97 | Ninetales | 1.57864% | 119349 | 2.103% | 101404 | 2.243% |
| 98 | Nidoking | 1.56860% | 95538 | 1.683% | 74728 | 1.653% |
| 99 | Thundurus-Therian | 1.50988% | 78698 | 1.386% | 62347 | 1.379% |
| 100 | Ambipom | 1.48169% | 94716 | 1.669% | 81963 | 1.813% |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
Last edited:
Thats enough to roost through. Charizard is never going to be switching in as X into fairy/dragon altaria, and I'm assuming if you are writing altaria as a counter then she is the one doing the switching in. Switch in altaria as charX roosts from stealth rock back to 100. The first draco meteor hits for 95%, but as you roost back to 55% hp the next one hits for 45% tops. If she is using draco meteor she cant beat charizardX the way I see it, unless he randomly decides to switch into her, THROUGH stealth rock at the same time which would be a horrible play.
Dragon pulse does deal with him better, but then you lose your ability to hurt a lot of other stuff, seeings as 70 SpA is really bad.
You could also invest into her special attack to try and help for it, and thats probably the best solution(?) but it'll cost you 100 EVs to have a 50% chance of ohko. Am I missing a trick that allows altaria with draco meteor to counter charX? she can whirlwind him out at 50% I guess, but she'll also get smacked for about 50% too.
She doesn't beat him with Draco Meteor, and she's not supposed to try. She should hit him with Toxic and stall him out with Roost or just Roar him out.
Just one question. I'm intrigued as to which set Garchomp could run that could threaten Altaria. As far as I'm concerned...
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 127-150 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- 93% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 85-100 (24 - 28.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 136-160 (38.4 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 136-160 (38.4 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Garchomp needs to be blue, buddy, as does starmie, whose special moves are walled aside from ice beam. Conk needs to be blued in too, tyranitar, and greninja. All those pokemon fail to dent Altaria, and it can effectively toxic stall them.
I'd have to disagree on that Greninja part
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Altaria: 312-369 (88.1 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
Also Altaria does not check/counter all Deo-S sets.
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Altaria: 198-234 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
For garchomp the thing is it actually can running a SD set or CB set, and if it is, altaria is broken by earthquake :
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 253-298 (71.4 - 84.1%)
252 Atk Choice Band Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 189-223 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
For starmie, it doesn't care toxic thanks to natural curse and 2HKO altaria thanks to ice beam but i added it in orange world:
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Altaria: 205-242 (57.9 - 68.3%)
Conk is really threatening since it is able to hit hard with ice punch once poinsoned ( and even if it is not obviously ) :
16+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 124-148 (35 - 41.8%)
16+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 186-220 (52.5 - 62.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Altaria Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Assault Vest Conkeldurr: 108-128 (26.1 - 30.9%)
Tyranitar deals correctly with altaria when it is CB or +1 mega tyra:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 211-250 (59.6 - 70.6%)
+1 252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 246-291 (69.4 - 82.2%)
Greninja destroys altaria thanks to icebeam :
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Altaria: 312-369 (88.1 - 104.2%)
0 SpA Altaria Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 102-120 (35.6 - 41.9%) ( with ice type )
Oh, You're right about deoxys, i didn't take in count the life orb when i made the calc, i switch it into orange, as it can have more physical spreads ...
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I don't mean to be rude but the current topic is on Fairy/Dragon Altaria. Although if you really want to discuss on Protean Mew you can PM alexwolf with this theorymon suggestion. Thank you.
In which case I stand corrected! I can't believe I forgot about ice beam on greninja.
I have to disagree about Conk and Garchomp still. No player in his right mind would status a conkeldurr, so factoring in guts conkeldurr as a threat isn't fair, because it's highly situational to come across one (through either misplay, or toxic orb...)
As for garchomp, nix on the SD set, because
0 SpA Altaria Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 176-210 (49.1 - 58.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
The turn it spends setting up, altaria has taken half its health. So only the choice band set threatens, which also, is not as common as Choice Scarf, or SD
Thats not really how you should consider the matchup- if you are running altaria as a counter you have to take into consideration the turn she takes to switch in- this means that while altaria switches in, garchomp boosts to +2. So SD garchomp will beat altaria basically unless it is scarfed altaria (lol), but you can consider her a check seeings as she can switch in to revenge a +0 chomp, and can beat a SD garchomp if they both lead.
You're right. I tend to think in a "1 v 1" situation rather than an actual battle situation, that being that a pokemon would be KO'd or altaria would have to switch in. Still, Altaria is effective against scarfchomp, the most common set
Yeah, that's my point about Garchomp, I agree in several cases, altaria can check Garchomp effectivly, but not all the time ( this means orange ).
About Conkeldurr, i realy don't know if i can switch it in blue, because some players can use a more offensive spread or wait for a toxic ( as they do with a will o wisp from Rotom-W ).
I imagined 2 scenario with two different spreads for conkeldurr :
Turn 1: Conkeldur switch into toxic (Conkeldurr 92% | Altaria 100%)
Turn 2: Altaria uses moonblast, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 52% | Altaria 49% )
Turn 3: Altaria uses roost, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 34% | Altaria 47% )
...
Altaria toxic stall Conkeldurr in that case
Now an other scenario :Turn 2: Altaria uses moonblast, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 52% | Altaria 49% )
Turn 3: Altaria uses roost, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 34% | Altaria 47% )
...
Altaria toxic stall Conkeldurr in that case
Turn 1: Altaria switch into knock off (Conkeldurr 100% | Altaria 88%)
Turn 2: Altaria uses moonblast, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 72% | Altaria 51% )
Turn 3: Altaria uses moonblast, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 44% | Altaria 24% )
Few turns of roost ...
Altaria wins but with difficulties, risk of hax ( crit, froze ) ...
Turn 2: Altaria uses moonblast, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 72% | Altaria 51% )
Turn 3: Altaria uses moonblast, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 44% | Altaria 24% )
Few turns of roost ...
Altaria wins but with difficulties, risk of hax ( crit, froze ) ...
Turn 1: Conkeldurr switch into toxic (Conkeldurr 92% | Altaria 100%)
Turn 2: Altaria uses moonblast, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 42% | Altaria 39% )
Turn 3: Altaria uses Roost, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 24% | Altaria 22% )
Turn 4: Altaria uses Moonblast.
Altaria wins.Turn 2: Altaria uses moonblast, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 42% | Altaria 39% )
Turn 3: Altaria uses Roost, Conkeldurr uses ice punch ( Conkeldurr 24% | Altaria 22% )
Turn 4: Altaria uses Moonblast.
Turn 1: Altaria switch into Knock off (Conkeldurr 100% | Altaria 78%)
Turn 2: Altaria uses moonblast, Conkeldurr uses ice punch (Conkeldurr 62% | Altaria 33%)
Few turns of Roost ...
As for the defensive spreads, Altaria wins but it is exposed to hax ( froze, crit )Turn 2: Altaria uses moonblast, Conkeldurr uses ice punch (Conkeldurr 62% | Altaria 33%)
Few turns of Roost ...
Offensive spread: 248HP / 252Atk / 8 SpeDef Adamant
By seeing Altaria won in all cases i imagined, i will change its color in blue in the list i made.
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So do you guys think Roost or Natural Cure Rest is the better form of recovery? I kinda dislike Roost because it doesn't heal Status unlike Rest and I think there are better Heal Bell users out there like Sylveon.
AV Conk in the OU Analysis is 252 atk 248 spdef adamant. If he switches into toxic and gets the guts boost: 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 220-260 (62.1 - 73.4%)
Meanwhile Altaria does 30.7 - 36.4% with moonblast. Assuming both are healthy, it can go either way depending on damage rolls.
Roost is absolutely the better healing option. While Roost doesn't heal status, that's what Natural Cure is for anyway. Natural Cure + Rest forces you to switch out, which is the opposite of what you want to do as Altaria. Toxic stalling, perish song stalling, and general walling all lose effectiveness if you can't stay in.
Meanwhile Altaria does 30.7 - 36.4% with moonblast. Assuming both are healthy, it can go either way depending on damage rolls.
Roost is absolutely the better healing option. While Roost doesn't heal status, that's what Natural Cure is for anyway. Natural Cure + Rest forces you to switch out, which is the opposite of what you want to do as Altaria. Toxic stalling, perish song stalling, and general walling all lose effectiveness if you can't stay in.
True, but doesn't Perish Song stalling require you to switch out eventually...? :P
Discussion about Altaria is now over, thanks for the participation. Here is our next slate:
- Parting Shot Scrafty (alexwolf)
- Fur Coat Arcanine (Chou Toshio)
- Harvest Torterra (Shroomisaur)
- No Guard Noivern (rachet67)
Dont really see much fun in no guard noivern, it just makes him better at what he already does with an accurate hurricane and focus blast.
I would like to see Fur Coat Arcanine because:
252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arcanine: 166-196 (43.2 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
is hilarious
I would like to see Fur Coat Arcanine because:
252 Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arcanine: 166-196 (43.2 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
is hilarious
Fur Coat Arcanine
Walls stuff quite nicely and can threathen back with Flare Blitz/Wild Charge.
Walls stuff quite nicely and can threathen back with Flare Blitz/Wild Charge.
Oh my these are all good. However I am going for Harvest Torterra, because Harvest is a fun defensive tool and it would work well with Torterra's bulk.
Parting Shot Scrafty
As already stated by alexwolf, Scrafty has pretty impressive mixed bulk, as well as Intimidate to provide you with more switch in opportunities. Scrafty also has a pretty decent utility based movepool, with things like Dragon Tail, Toxic, Taunt, and Roar, with Parting Shot being the icing on the Support Scrafty cake.
As already stated by alexwolf, Scrafty has pretty impressive mixed bulk, as well as Intimidate to provide you with more switch in opportunities. Scrafty also has a pretty decent utility based movepool, with things like Dragon Tail, Toxic, Taunt, and Roar, with Parting Shot being the icing on the Support Scrafty cake.
- Status