Other The OU Theorymon Project (CLOSED)

[escarlata]

Grass/Poison v Grass

Pros
Bug neutrality
Poison neutrality
Fairy resist
Fighting resist
x4 Grass resist
Immune to Poison status and absorbs Toxic Spikes
Secondary STAB

Cons
Ground neutrality
Psychic weakness

Losing the Ground resist sucks, but I'd say the Bug neutrality, Fairy/Fighting resist, and Toxic immunity make Grass/Poison a pretty obviously superior type.

Yes that's true but when you put it into actual context of what it beats and what it cannot beat as reliably it becomes quite balanced.

Beats
Azumarill, Gliscor, Sylveon, Clefable

Doesn't change despite the new resist/neutrality
Terrakion(non CB still loses to it, CB still 2HKOs it), Keldeo, Gardevoir, Lucario, Scizor

Has a harder time against
Landorus, Garchomp

Loses immediately to (not counting the unchanged)
Latios, Latias, Landorus-I using Psychic over Sludge Wave, -2 Deoxys, Gothitelle

It's actually quite balanced on both sides. It's fairly balanced for both typing, so I'm hesitant to consider either of them as a superior typing.

 

[Salemance]

Voting took a but longer than usual, but here they are! (just names as I'm short on time)

Tangrowth: 6

Jellicent: 4

Sceptile: 4

Celebi: 1

And the winner is....Poison/Grass Tangrowth!


and two second place guys funny enough.

 

[-Flygon-]

Wow that's weird. Well congrats to Tangrowth, definitely deserving of it's retyping. :D

 

[En Passant]

Ever since we switched to PM voting, the amount of voters has gone down significantly. Is it because of bad slates, or should we switch back to in-thread voting?

 

[Red Cat]

Ever since we switched to PM voting, the amount of voters has gone down significantly. Is it because of bad slates, or should we switch back to in-thread voting?

My guess is that it is the PM voting. I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. If people are too lazy to PM a vote to Salemance, then I don't want them voting. I think there were a lot of bandwagon votes under the old format. If someone actually cares about this, that person will PM a vote to Salemance.

alexwolf , how are you going to choose the runner-up for the second chance round since Sceptile and Jellicent tied?

 

[Salemance]

My guess is that it is the PM voting. I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. If people are too lazy to PM a vote to Salemance, then I don't want them voting. I think there were a lot of bandwagon votes under the old format. If someone actually cares about this, that person will PM a vote to Salemance.

alexwolf , how are you going to choose the runner-up for the second chance round since Sceptile and Jellicent tied?

I agree on that sentiment (I mean, I like having a bigger part here) as it's not really "Oh look, it's Salamence with Gale Wings! Let's vote for that" and more detailed discussions over what is what. I'll also withhold results if more votes are needed, but I'm liking the variety we are having as it is not too lopsided but still can be.

And my thoughts on the dual tie for second is just add those two in contention as I do not think adding one more would matter since we have had five in one runner up before I think, so adding just another option wouldn't be that bad.


Truth be told, I'm just waiting to see what the new slate can or will be. Will there be one semi dud like the last two have had (Starmie and Celebi arguably, as one had no votes while Celebi did not come till much, much later like almost past deadline I believe). Good luck to our next round of candidates!

 

[Red Cat]

Truth be told, I'm just waiting to see what the new slate can or will be. Will there be one semi dud like the last two have had (Starmie and Celebi arguably, as one had no votes while Celebi did not come till much, much later like almost past deadline I believe). Good luck to our next round of candidates!

I think alexwolf always includes a shitty Theorymon on every slate to avoid burning through all of the good ideas at once. I know there are at least 4 really good Theorymons which have been suggested which haven't been slated yet, but if they were all put on the same slate, then 3 of them would have to lose.

 

[Salemance]

I think alexwolf always includes a shitty Theorymon on every slate to avoid burning through all of the good ideas at once. I know there are at least 4 really good Theorymons which have been suggested which haven't been slated yet, but if they were all put on the same slate, then 3 of them would have to lose.

There have been multiple ones which have been slated as good (as he says, he has a document of suggested theorymon that have been told to him or so) and while I like it, its just sad seeing that poor lame duck xD

 

[alexwolf]

Both theorymons that made second place will be included in the second place slate. Let's go to our next four theorymons:

• Slack Off Mega Blastoise (Red Cat)
• Normal / Fairy Blissey (Valmanway)
• Defog Hydreigon (grassycow)
• Dragon / Poison Haxorus (U-Ralph)

You have 4 days to discuss about them. Also, keep in mind that all the theorymons of March and April are available on the theorymon ladder until the end of May.

 

[U-Ralph]

oh yeah, blastoise dropped in c+ now, that buff is certainnly going to work, with a great bulk, a good defensive type and a huge offensive possibility, mega blastoise + slack off is going to be able to stay longer in the game also. That was what it missed the more.
Moreover the role of the rapid spinner is still available and it threaten all the spin blocker of the meta ==> best rapid spinner of the meta.

For the other theorymons, Bilssey trade his very well known fighting weakness for steel a poison weaknesses. That seems pretty bad in a first glance, but it gain serveral resistances and a very important immunity. That makes it able to manage better pokemon like keldeo and aegislash i guess ( didn't made the calc ) but still doesn't check them. After thinking, i do not see any special threat that this is able to counter without the normal type can. Please help me to see what it can do because i'm very intrigued.

I have to say my idea of Haxorus is original as it becomes the first viable dragon who doesn't care any fairies . Then it can be a perfect teamates for pokemon like Dracolosse or Charizard X or can be used alone as it is different enough from the other dragon sweepers. But i think i like too much blastoise to vote for my own idea.

I do not like Hydreigon idea because i do not see how defog will increase its efficiency, a bulky set roost + defog can works but it's a too shy buff for a pokemon that have a great potiential i guess.
By the way my double type steel/dragon hydreigon is still haunting my brain , he is so good :)

 

[rachet67]

For the other theorymons, Bilssey trade his very well known fighting weakness for steel a poison weaknesses. That seems pretty bad in a first glance, but it gain serveral resistances and a very important immunity. That makes it able to manage better pokemon like keldeo and aegislash i guess ( didn't made the calc ) but still doesn't check them. After thinking, i do not see any special threat that this is able to counter without the normal type can. Please help me to see what it can do because i'm very intrigued.

I think the best thing Blissey can now counter is all Landorus lacking both sludge wave and calm mind (which unfortunately could become more popular). This is a pretty awesome thing for stall teams, as Landorus is pretty much the biggest threat to them at the moment.

 

[Red Cat]

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 375-442 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (This is with the Fairy type)

Unfortunately, it doesn't counter Specs Keldeo.

 

[escarlata]

Blastoise definitely loves Slack Off, not as a bulky spinner, but as the typical bulky water typed tank. The lack of recovery currently screams offense, but it has really good bulk to use. Mega Blastoise is comparable to Mega Venusaur in terms of general mixed bulk, but with a different set of useful typings and a more offensively oriented ability. A 252 HP/252+ Def/ 4 SDef set with Slack Off/Aura Sphere/Dark Pulse/Ice Beam seems pretty solid. Slack Off/Dark Pulse/Ice Beam/Rapid Spin could work too as the best spinner ever, but considering 4 of the threats that needs spin the most are mega, I'm not too sure.

Blissey honestly didn't gain much. Even with the Fighting neutrality, Fighting types that used to OHKO it still hits a massive chunk. Keldeo and Terrakion can still 2HKO, Lucario still has Iron Tail to OHKO. It did gain STAB on Dazzling Gleam though, which allows it to 2HKO Terrakion and Keldeo, so I guess that's something... except they 2HKO Blissey first.

Haxorus also didn't gain much. The only OU viable Fairy that are not OHKOed by +1 unSTABed Poison Jab are Sylveon and Clefable but both of them aren't usually going to be at full health (or Haxorus can just carry a boosting item), so they die anyway.

Hydreigon with Defog helps against Bisharp so that is a plus. Except Thundurus is very commonly used to punish Defog as well. Defog Hydreigon only looks ok, but ok is not enough.

As much as I despise 1 move additions for theorymons, I have to admit that what Blastoise and Hydreigon got are more impactful than what the other 2 got. Probably voting for Blastoise if there isn't other convincing points for the others.

 

[Seiterman]

Normal/Fairy Blissey is one of those upgrades that doesn't seem like it'd be enough to radically change anything. Though it definitely handles Dragons a bit better (provided they don't set up, I guess,) and special mons running Focus Blast/Aura Sphere like Landorus, Chansey's radically better overall bulk still makes it iffy. The added Steel weakness does have the side effect of making it harder to use Blissey's Flamethrower on mons like Scizor, for what that's worth. All-in-all, it gives Blissey a more definitive niche over Chansey, but I'm not convinced it's enough to make it a big deal.

Slack Off M-Blastoise kind of reminds me of Roost Empoleon from a few months back. It sounded good to me at first, but a few downsides rear their heads. First off, M-Blastoise has similar 4MSS issues. With Slack Off, you can fit either three attacking moves or two plus Rapid Spin. Its coverage isn't wonderful to begin with, either, with the most common combo of Water/Dark/Fighting being wholly resisted by Azumarill (who you really don't want to set up.) If you drop down to two moves the problem intensifies. M-Blastoise definitely isn't as disappointing as Roost Empoleon, though, as it has better overall bulk, better immediate power, arguably better defensive typing and it doesn't activate Defiant/Competitive in the process of removing hazards. I can certainly see this working, though it can't do hazard removal, healing and good coverage all at once.

Defog Hydreigon is kind of interesting. As a Defogger, it isn't messed up by Bisharp as much as others. A resistance to Knock Off and Sucker Punch definitely helps, as well as good SpA in addition to Fighting/Fire coverage. It doesn't have the raw bulk, speed or defensive typing of other Defoggers, so it's biggest niche would probably be in being a Defogger that can beat Bisharp. You do have to be careful switching in, though, as Iron Head still does a number and can KO when followed up by Sucker Punch. For that matter, Sucker Punch hits hard after a Defiant boost, and Hydreigon's Fire Blast/Focus Blast can easily miss. So, there's a niche there, but it's a bit questionable.

Dragon/Poison Haxorus is more questionable than Defog Hydreigon, in my opinion. It's hard to take advantage of a Fairy neutrality with 76/90/70 bulk, especially uninvested. It doesn't really need STAB Poison Jab since it outspeeds and 2HKO's most Fairies that aren't immune to it already. So, yeah.

 

[Red Cat]

Blissey sounded good at first, but most of the Fighting, Bug, Dragon and Dark types are physical attackers which can still take advantage of Blissey's piss-poor defense. It has the same problem most other Fairies have, high special defense but low defense.

One note about Blastoise is that you don't have to use the mega stone on it. Mega Blastoise is obviously a lot better than just regular Blastoise, but regular Blastoise might be able to serve as a decent utility Pokemon if you want a bulky spinner with reliable recovery without using your mega slot.

Haxorus still seems to live under Garchomp's shadow since it has higher speed, better bulk, immunity to paralysis, STAB EQ, usable special attack and a better movepool overall. It is not like Fairies can really switch into Garchomp either, so I don't really see what niche this has over Chomp.

 

[Valmanway]

We have some really good options here this time. I'm having difficulty deciding here, not that I have to decide right now, but still...

Slack Off Mega Blastoise: What Mega Blastoise really needed was recovery, and with Slack Off, he finally has the longevity he desperately needed. With it, he can finally put his 79 / 120 / 115 defenses and great defensive typing to good use. His viability as a Rapid Spinner also go up drastically, since entry hazard damage won't be as crippling, and as we all know, Mega Launcher Dark Pulse is great for scaring spin blockers out, or scaring them into not switching in at all. His viability shoots up drastically, and to be honest, I think this guy might get my vote, but the other competition is fierce here.

Normal / Fairy Blissey: I'll be honest, I didn't really put much thought into this one, so it might not sound very good. With a Fairy typing, Blissey can take on Kyurem-B, Deoxys-S, and Choice Scarf Garchomp and Terrakion, and Dragonite more effectively, avoiding overwhelming damage from some of their strongest and/or reliable attacks; not much of a new list, but having a much more reliable counter to Deoxys-S is extraordinary on its own. Sadly, that's it for new walling opportunities, though one of those few is Deoxys-D, and she now becomes one of the biggest hurdles for it to overcome, and that alone may be enough to see usage, and I can definitely see myself voting for this, and not be biased about it. lol

Poison / Dragon Haxorus: Also liking this one, as this helps offensively and defensively against Fairies. With STAB Poison Jab to hit them with, his number of walls go down a bit, and the extra typing protects him from Toxic, a move most setup sweepers lacking Substitute fear. Though he still fears burns, and now had Ground and Psychic weaknesses, but now has Fighting, Bug, and Poison resistances, along with removing his Fairy weakness. He's not really a team-player, but this is still a pretty cool idea. Another worthy candidate of my vote.

Defog Hydreigon: This... ummm... yeah, I'm less than impressed. He becomes an interesting wall breaker with a way of getting rid of their hazards, but his overall flaws are still very glaring, having no chance against Fairies whatsoever, lacking in speed compared to most other Dragons, and having a questionable traits as an offensive Defogger overall. I sadly don't have much to say here.

 

[escarlata]

The thing about Blastoise is that it doesn't have to run a Water STAB unless it is Hydro Pump. By virtue of MLauncher, it already gets pseudo STAB on Aura Sphere and Dark Pulse, which are only 15 BP weaker than STAB Water Pulse, and equally strong as STAB Scald. That empties out the space for it to run HP Grass for BD Azumarill. With 252+ Modest, HP Grass is a clean 2HKO through Sitrus. A defensive set with 252/252+/4 has comparable physical bulk to Skarmory, and that is something.

Blissey did gain stuff, and lose stuff, but is still not that amazing. Deoxys never had any chance against Blissey anyway. Superpower from standard 20/252/236+ LO Deoxys-S barely hits above the 50% mark on Blissey and never hand any chance to 2HKO factoring the drop; Kyurem-B doesn't usually carry Dragon STAB so that hardly matters too; Scarf-Chomp spams EQ more often than Outrage and usually only after all the fairies are gone does it start spamming Outrage; Terrakion still 2HKOs with CC so...; Forcing Charizard X to Flare Blitz on it and walling Dragonite is a big plus though.

 

[Valmanway]

Superpower from standard 20/252/236+ LO Deoxys-S barely hits above the 50% mark on Blissey and never hand any chance to 2HKO factoring the drop

I more or less agree with most of what you said in your last comment, except this statement. Here's the math:

252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 499-588 (69.8 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Two turns of Leftovers (assuming a turn of Protect stalling) recovers about 90 HP, leaving Blissey with at most 305 HP. And then:

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 330-390 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even factoring the stat drop and two turns of Leftovers recovery, Deoxys-S cleanly 2HKOes with LO Superpower. Blissey was never a safe switch to this guy unless he got the stat drop before she came in. Also Scarf Garchomp's Earthquake fails to 2HKO.

Or when you mentioned the EVs, did you mean 20 Attack EVs? And just out of curiosity, what would the 20 Attack EVs be for?

 

[escarlata]

I more or less agree with most of what you said in your last comment, except this statement. Here's the math:

252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 499-588 (69.8 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Two turns of Leftovers (assuming a turn of Protect stalling) recovers about 90 HP, leaving Blissey with at most 305 HP. And then:

-1 252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 330-390 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even factoring the stat drop and two turns of Leftovers recovery, Deoxys-S cleanly 2HKOes with LO Superpower. Blissey was never a safe switch to this guy unless he got the stat drop before she came in. Also Scarf Garchomp's Earthquake fails to 2HKO.

Or when you mentioned the EVs, did you mean 20 Attack EVs? And just out of curiosity, what would the 20 Attack EVs be for?

20 refers to Atk, which is standard on the analysis iirc. I'm sure sure the only reason it runs 20 Atk EV and not 4 because running 252 Spd over 236 does not let it outrun anything else. Scarf Keldeo still outspeeds it, and Garchomp is still slower

 

[Valmanway]

20 refers to Atk, which is standard on the analysis iirc. I'm sure sure the only reason it runs 20 Atk EV and not 4 because running 252 Spd over 236 does not let it outrun anything else. Scarf Keldeo still outspeeds it, and Garchomp is still slower

Hmm... good points.

 

[Jacks0n]

Normal/Fairy Blissey is one of those upgrades that doesn't seem like it'd be enough to radically change anything. Though it definitely handles Dragons a bit better (provided they don't set up, I guess,) and special mons running Focus Blast/Aura Sphere like Landorus, Chansey's radically better overall bulk still makes it iffy. The added Steel weakness does have the side effect of making it harder to use Blissey's Flamethrower on mons like Scizor, for what that's worth. All-in-all, it gives Blissey a more definitive niche over Chansey, but I'm not convinced it's enough to make it a big deal.

Slack Off M-Blastoise kind of reminds me of Roost Empoleon from a few months back. It sounded good to me at first, but a few downsides rear their heads. First off, M-Blastoise has similar 4MSS issues. With Slack Off, you can fit either three attacking moves or two plus Rapid Spin. Its coverage isn't wonderful to begin with, either, with the most common combo of Water/Dark/Fighting being wholly resisted by Azumarill (who you really don't want to set up.) If you drop down to two moves the problem intensifies. M-Blastoise definitely isn't as disappointing as Roost Empoleon, though, as it has better overall bulk, better immediate power, arguably better defensive typing and it doesn't activate Defiant/Competitive in the process of removing hazards. I can certainly see this working, though it can't do hazard removal, healing and good coverage all at once.

Defog Hydreigon is kind of interesting. As a Defogger, it isn't messed up by Bisharp as much as others. A resistance to Knock Off and Sucker Punch definitely helps, as well as good SpA in addition to Fighting/Fire coverage. It doesn't have the raw bulk, speed or defensive typing of other Defoggers, so it's biggest niche would probably be in being a Defogger that can beat Bisharp. You do have to be careful switching in, though, as Iron Head still does a number and can KO when followed up by Sucker Punch. For that matter, Sucker Punch hits hard after a Defiant boost, and Hydreigon's Fire Blast/Focus Blast can easily miss. So, there's a niche there, but it's a bit questionable.

Dragon/Poison Haxorus is more questionable than Defog Hydreigon, in my opinion. It's hard to take advantage of a Fairy neutrality with 76/90/70 bulk, especially uninvested. It doesn't really need STAB Poison Jab since it outspeeds and 2HKO's most Fairies that aren't immune to it already. So, yeah.

Actually hydriegon has a great niche as a deffoger, with only something like 32 speed ev's, it outspeeds all bisharp, it runs superpower to kill bisharp with its respectable 104 attack and it can run defence and hp investment to be a bulky deffoger, it also has acces to roost and u-turn. I dont think you all realise how good this thing will be.

Blastoise definitely loves Slack Off, not as a bulky spinner, but as the typical bulky water typed tank. The lack of recovery currently screams offense, but it has really good bulk to use. Mega Blastoise is comparable to Mega Venusaur in terms of general mixed bulk, but with a different set of useful typings and a more offensively oriented ability. A 252 HP/252+ Def/ 4 SDef set with Slack Off/Aura Sphere/Dark Pulse/Ice Beam seems pretty solid. Slack Off/Dark Pulse/Ice Beam/Rapid Spin could work too as the best spinner ever, but considering 4 of the threats that needs spin the most are mega, I'm not too sure.

Blissey honestly didn't gain much. Even with the Fighting neutrality, Fighting types that used to OHKO it still hits a massive chunk. Keldeo and Terrakion can still 2HKO, Lucario still has Iron Tail to OHKO. It did gain STAB on Dazzling Gleam though, which allows it to 2HKO Terrakion and Keldeo, so I guess that's something... except they 2HKO Blissey first.

Haxorus also didn't gain much. The only OU viable Fairy that are not OHKOed by +1 unSTABed Poison Jab are Sylveon and Clefable but both of them aren't usually going to be at full health (or Haxorus can just carry a boosting item), so they die anyway.

Hydreigon with Defog helps against Bisharp so that is a plus. Except Thundurus is very commonly used to punish Defog as well. Defog Hydreigon only looks ok, but ok is not enough.

As much as I despise 1 move additions for theorymons, I have to admit that what Blastoise and Hydreigon got are more impactful than what the other 2 got. Probably voting for Blastoise if there isn't other convincing points for the others.

Bisharp is 10 > 1 as a thundurus abuser with popularity, and if you have thundurus problems than thats what support is for.

oh yeah, blastoise dropped in c+ now, that buff is certainnly going to work, with a great bulk, a good defensive type and a huge offensive possibility, mega blastoise + slack off is going to be able to stay longer in the game also. That was what it missed the more.
Moreover the role of the rapid spinner is still available and it threaten all the spin blocker of the meta ==> best rapid spinner of the meta.

For the other theorymons, Bilssey trade his very well known fighting weakness for steel a poison weaknesses. That seems pretty bad in a first glance, but it gain serveral resistances and a very important immunity. That makes it able to manage better pokemon like keldeo and aegislash i guess ( didn't made the calc ) but still doesn't check them. After thinking, i do not see any special threat that this is able to counter without the normal type can. Please help me to see what it can do because i'm very intrigued.

I have to say my idea of Haxorus is original as it becomes the first viable dragon who doesn't care any fairies . Then it can be a perfect teamates for pokemon like Dracolosse or Charizard X or can be used alone as it is different enough from the other dragon sweepers. But i think i like too much blastoise to vote for my own idea.

I do not like Hydreigon idea because i do not see how defog will increase its efficiency, a bulky set roost + defog can works but it's a too shy buff for a pokemon that have a great potiential i guess.
By the way my double type steel/dragon hydreigon is still haunting my brain , he is so good :)

hello, beats bisharp?

We have some really good options here this time. I'm having difficulty deciding here, not that I have to decide right now, but still...

Slack Off Mega Blastoise: What Mega Blastoise really needed was recovery, and with Slack Off, he finally has the longevity he desperately needed. With it, he can finally put his 79 / 120 / 115 defenses and great defensive typing to good use. His viability as a Rapid Spinner also go up drastically, since entry hazard damage won't be as crippling, and as we all know, Mega Launcher Dark Pulse is great for scaring spin blockers out, or scaring them into not switching in at all. His viability shoots up drastically, and to be honest, I think this guy might get my vote, but the other competition is fierce here.

Normal / Fairy Blissey: I'll be honest, I didn't really put much thought into this one, so it might not sound very good. With a Fairy typing, Blissey can take on Kyurem-B, Deoxys-S, and Choice Scarf Garchomp and Terrakion, and Dragonite more effectively, avoiding overwhelming damage from some of their strongest and/or reliable attacks; not much of a new list, but having a much more reliable counter to Deoxys-S is extraordinary on its own. Sadly, that's it for new walling opportunities, though one of those few is Deoxys-D, and she now becomes one of the biggest hurdles for it to overcome, and that alone may be enough to see usage, and I can definitely see myself voting for this, and not be biased about it. lol

Poison / Dragon Haxorus: Also liking this one, as this helps offensively and defensively against Fairies. With STAB Poison Jab to hit them with, his number of walls go down a bit, and the extra typing protects him from Toxic, a move most setup sweepers lacking Substitute fear. Though he still fears burns, and now had Ground and Psychic weaknesses, but now has Fighting, Bug, and Poison resistances, along with removing his Fairy weakness. He's not really a team-player, but this is still a pretty cool idea. Another worthy candidate of my vote.

Defog Hydreigon: This... ummm... yeah, I'm less than impressed. He becomes an interesting wall breaker with a way of getting rid of their hazards, but his overall flaws are still very glaring, having no chance against Fairies whatsoever, lacking in speed compared to most other Dragons, and having a questionable traits as an offensive Defogger overall. I sadly don't have much to say here.

hydriegon would be the only deffoger who doesnt give a damn about bisharp, it pretty much lures it in then kills it, pretty viable if you ask me

 

[Valmanway]

hydriegon would be the only deffoger who doesnt give a damn about bisharp, it pretty much lures it in then kills it, pretty viable if you ask me

I hate to say it, but checking one extra A+ Pokemon doesn't always merit good viability. Pretty much every Dragon and Fairy-type in OU can still beat the crap out of it, and having Bug, Ice, and Fighting weaknesses, as well as low speed for an OU Dragon really hold it back from being viable. As an offensive Defogger, Scizor and Latios greatly outclass it, with the former having much more resistances, Roost for passive damage, and being able to beat Bisharp one-on-one (contrary to your claim that Hydreigon would be the only one to do that, and Scizor would be better at it to boot), while Latios is the fastest Dragon-type in the tier, and also has more power than Hydreigon, as well as Recover for passive damage. Hydreigon will likely stay in C+, purely because he'd still be outclassed at every role he has.

 

[escarlata]

Defog Hydreigon has a niche, yes, but it is not the only one with said niche. Besides, any team that still hasn't adapted to Bisharp deserves to get swept. The Bisharp switch in is so damn obvious that it is not even that hard to predict it and nail it on the switch. Even if it does come in on a Defog, it is not that hard to kill off. Practically everything that is faster and resists Dark wrecks it. Everything faster and has WoW wrecks it. Breloom and Conkeldurr wrecks it. Physically bulky Pokemon completely ruin it. Quagsire dgaf.

List of B to A rank Defoggers that can kill Bisharp on a switch in: Latios, Zapdos, Scizor
List of B to A Defoggers that make sure you don't get swept by a +2 Bisharp: Mew, MScizor, Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Zapdos
Or you can just use Excadrill if Bisharp is a concern.

 

[Valmanway]

How, many teams completely die to a bisharp at +2, with a neat niche in having no problem with it I think hydriegon would be good

Well the thing is just taking on Bisharp doesn't merit that much extra viability. If it were that easy, then Rhyperior should be top tier since he can counter Talonflame, and Toxicroak as well because he can check Azumarill. I'm not saying that Defog Hydreigon will be bad, I'm just saying that he'll be outclassed by the competition is all.

 

[amzaneok]

The thing about Blastoise is that it doesn't have to run a Water STAB unless it is Hydro Pump.

I'm sorry but Scald is more or less mandatory on this bulky Water-type in order to get past or wear down its usual counters. I would never run Blastoise without Scald, ESPECIALLY now that it would have staying power from Slack Off to spread more burns. Yeah, it's cool that it gets essentially STAB on Dark Pulse and Aura Sphere but if you have access to a 120 BP move with a 30% chance to burn and great neutral coverage, you should probably use it.