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Serious The Politics Thread

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Sabelette said:
To put it in simple terms she posted things that were obviously controversial then played dumb about how people would react so people would show their hypocrisy and it worked on several people who replied, but it's similar enough to how fascists play dumb that I dislike it in my gut and would probably be upset at her if I hadn't spoken to her enough prior to know she's not one. It's probably not a good thing to do if you take this thread seriously, but this thread is a joke and I get the frustration at trying to have any useful conversation
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What, exactly, did she end up proving except posting a Hamas pamphlet, getting slightly annoyed at the mods for removing it and saying that "Hamas was misrepresented because of what they say in their pamphlet"? I am quite confused about what this post is supposed to mean.
 
Also, what "hypocrisy"? I'd take an article by the Times of Israel on "justifying" Israeli actions in Palestine with as much reverence as a Hamas pamphlet detailing their ultimate goals. I'd take a statement by Netanyahu "justifying" Israeli violence and terrorism with as much reverence as that Hamas pamphlet. I'd take a statement by Chinese officials on the "justification" of the Uyghur genocide with as much reverence as that Hamas pamphlet. That post makes zero sense.
 
1721520666006.png

This Simpsons joke is 30 years old.
 
Sabelette said:
To put it in simple terms she posted things that were obviously controversial then played dumb about how people would react so people would show their hypocrisy and it worked on several people who replied, but it's similar enough to how fascists play dumb that I dislike it in my gut and would probably be upset at her if I hadn't spoken to her enough prior to know she's not one. It's probably not a good thing to do if you take this thread seriously, but this thread is a joke and I get the frustration at trying to have any useful conversation
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Okay... I still don't really get it, but you should know that North Korea is literally a totalitarian fascist regime; they literally starve their own people to death in concentration camps and deny them basic human rights. The food shortage is so bad that the men have to inject meth just to have the energy to get through their 18 hour shifts, which makes them go manic and contributes to the skyrocketing rate of domestic violence. Meanwhile, the women are treated like chattel, a lifestyle they are seemingly content with, as feminism is basically unheard of there. And since 99% of the population is illiterate, they're helpless to question propaganda and worship Kim Jong Un as a god. (No wonder he's so "buddy-buddy" with the Orange Man... :totodiLUL:)

Point is, it's not a f-ing joke. I just educated you on the off chance that you somehow hadn't heard about the conditions in North Korea, but you probably just think it's edgy and "cool" to support the country everyone else agrees is evil. And yeah, I've researched the topic in depth because I have a personal connection to it now, but if you're not going to put in the effort to learn history then you should just listen to the consensus instead of being an edgy contrarian.
 
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An addendum to the post. You state that just because these two entities are not in the best moral standing to put it lightly, we should "discuss" their statements. But what is the point of discussing a statement that is more likely than not to be a flat-out lie?
 
idt sabelette wants to be brought into shit further so hopefully everyone can put this aside and stop pinging her but i do want to note that she literally said none of the things she was j pinged over. she did not say anything in defense of north korea (she stated clearly that it is a reactionary govt in the prior post), and she did not say anything suggesting that there was value to posting or further discussion of the dprk statement.
and re timid magnemite, maybe if you literally acknowledged that u didnt understand anything that she was saying, then you shouldnt make wild assumptions about the content of posts that u didnt understand.


moving on to the other question, the hypocrisy is, for example, recognizing that north korean government statements are propoganda, but not treating statements from the white house about how they "are doing everything they can to #insist that the zionist entity do more to protect civilians" within the context that it is propoganda coming from the #1 imperialist state which supplies near-100% of the weapons and rly entire military apparatus of the genocidal zionist project both in the present and over many decades.
(dead by daylight idk if u read this whole thread so u may not have the context that those state dept talking points have been trotted out repeatedly in this thread by various apologists for the genocide in gaza that us imperialism bears primary responsibility for, but surely u have encountered people propogating such 'arguments' elsewhere)
 
MrHands said:
They can be discussed but taking what they say as word for word truth instead of at least trying to understand that literal state propaganda is expected to be full of lies is foolish and doesn't really result in good political discussion.
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I guess it's a good thing they advocated for the latter and not the former then.

I didn't read the rest of your post.


Timid magnemite said:
Okay... I still don't really get it, but you should know that North Korea is literally a totalitarian fascist regime; they literally starve their own people to death in concentration camps and deny them basic human rights. The food shortage is so bad that the men have to inject meth just to have the energy to get through their 18 hour shifts, which makes them go manic and contributes to the skyrocketing rate of domestic violence. Meanwhile, the women are treated like chattel, a lifestyle they are seemingly content with, as feminism is basically unheard of there. And since 99% of the population is illiterate, they're helpless to question propaganda and worship Kim Jong Un as a god. (No wonder he's so "buddy-buddy" with the Orange Man... :totodiLUL:)

Point is, it's not a f-ing joke. I just educated you on the off chance that you somehow hadn't heard about the conditions in North Korea, but you probably just think it's edgy and "cool" to support the country everyone else agrees is evil. And yeah, I've researched the topic in depth because I have a personal connection to it now, but if you're not going to put in the effort to learn history then you should just listen to the consensus instead of being an edgy contrarian.
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This post is a work of art. I want to print this post out and frame it and look at it every night so I can get that warm ticklish feeling you get when someone says something extremely ironic without having the faintest clue about it.

For the record, fuck the DPRK.
 
Timid magnemite said:
Okay... I still don't really get it, but you should know that North Korea is literally a totalitarian fascist regime; they literally starve their own people to death in concentration camps and deny them basic human rights. The food shortage is so bad that the men have to inject meth just to have the energy to get through their 18 hour shifts, which makes them go manic and contributes to the skyrocketing rate of domestic violence. Meanwhile, the women are treated like chattel, a lifestyle they are seemingly content with, as feminism is basically unheard of there. And since 99% of the population is illiterate, they're helpless to question propaganda and worship Kim Jong Un as a god. (No wonder he's so "buddy-buddy" with the Orange Man... :totodiLUL:)
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I'd love to see your sources on those statements. I'm not even defending north korea as it is indeed a country with many issues, but this is simply blatant anti-socialism propaganda. Which is to be expected tbh.
 
juoean said:
idt sabelette wants to be brought into shit further so hopefully everyone can put this aside and stop pinging her but i do want to note that she literally said none of the things she was j pinged over. she did not say anything in defense of north korea (she stated clearly that it is a reactionary govt in the prior post), and she did not say anything suggesting that there was value to posting or further discussion of the dprk statement.
and re timid magnemite, maybe if you literally acknowledged that u didnt understand anything that she was saying, then you shouldnt make wild assumptions about the content of posts that u didnt understand.


moving on to the other question, the hypocrisy is, for example, recognizing that north korean government statements are propoganda, but not treating statements from the white house about how they "are doing everything they can to #insist that the zionist entity do more to protect civilians" within the context that it is propoganda coming from the #1 imperialist state which supplies near-100% of the weapons and rly entire military apparatus of the genocidal zionist project both in the present and over many decades.
(dead by daylight idk if u read this whole thread so u may not have the context that those state dept talking points have been trotted out repeatedly in this thread by various apologists for the genocide in gaza that us imperialism bears primary responsibility for, but surely u have encountered people propogating such 'arguments' elsewhere)
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OK, I acknowledge that maybe my post was directed at the wrong person, but even so others in the thread have been blatantly defending North Korea so it needed to be said. And in my defense, it's not like you guys make it easy to read and understand your posts, you (the Marxists ITT) are always writing long and confusing sentences loaded with theory-speak, which I guess lets you show off your fancy college degree but makes it hard for someone like me who has mild dyslexia to understand - you for example don't even bother to use proper caps or punctuation in your posts, and I had to squint for a long time at my (cracked) phone screen to discern the point underneath all that verbiage. Btw, it's PROPAGANDA, with an A, not "propoganda", just thought you should know.

And your accusation of "hypocrisy" is just nonsense. Of course I engage critically with Western news media instead of taking it at face value, but there's no equivalency to be drawn between Western "spin" and North Korean brainwashing. We're talking about a country that literally claims to have landed a man on the Sun ffs.

myowngamertag said:
I don't think this is true, sorry bro
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https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/kim-jong-un-god-north-korea

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/korea-watch/there-shall-be-no-god-kim-jong-un-165985

https://www.cato.org/commentary/north-korea-there-shall-be-no-religion-kims

https://www2.cbn.com/news/world/he-set-himself-god-look-north-koreas-counterfeit-trinity

sakenjane said:
I'd love to see your sources on those statements. I'm not even defending north korea as it is indeed a country with many issues, but this is simply blatant anti-socialism propaganda. Which is to be expected tbh.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/world/asia/un-north-korea-human-rights.html

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/north-korea

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/23/asia/north-korea-torture-prison-report-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

These sources are just a google search away, if you actually want to learn more.
 
Timid magnemite said:
OK, I acknowledge that maybe my post was directed at the wrong person, but even so others in the thread have been blatantly defending North Korea so it needed to be said. And in my defense, it's not like you guys make it easy to read and understand your posts, you (the Marxists ITT) are always writing long and confusing sentences loaded with theory-speak, which I guess lets you show off your fancy college degree but makes it hard for someone like me who has mild dyslexia to understand - you for example don't even bother to use proper caps or punctuation in your posts, and I had to squint for a long time at my (cracked) phone screen to discern the point underneath all that verbiage. Btw, it's PROPAGANDA, with an A, not "propoganda", just thought you should know.

And your accusation of "hypocrisy" is just nonsense. Of course I engage critically with Western news media instead of taking it at face value, but there's no equivalency to be drawn between Western "spin" and North Korean brainwashing. We're talking about a country that literally claims to have landed a man on the Sun ffs.



https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/kim-jong-un-god-north-korea

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/korea-watch/there-shall-be-no-god-kim-jong-un-165985

https://www.cato.org/commentary/north-korea-there-shall-be-no-religion-kims

https://www2.cbn.com/news/world/he-set-himself-god-look-north-koreas-counterfeit-trinity



https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/17/world/asia/un-north-korea-human-rights.html

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/north-korea

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/23/asia/north-korea-torture-prison-report-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

These sources are just a google search away, if you actually want to learn more.
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Most of those are simply opinion articles. They even mention there's no way to even check the claims. Still, even there I don't see anything regarding most of those claims that you made.
I would like to see something from somewhere that it's not from an american or radio free asia article. As those both are the main antagonizers of north korea and socialism in general.
Again, I'm not defending north korea per see. But saying that 99% of the population is illiterate and everyone is addicted to meth because of food shortage is simply untrue. Like I said, that's all anti-socialist propaganda.

And honestly, many of those claims can also be true for the united states. Or are all prisioners in the US welltreated and I'm not aware?

Feel free to critisize north korea all you want, I might even join you regarding some topics. But spreading those "they eat babies" kind of conspiracy theories will acomplish nothing besides scaring people away from understanding important topics such as socialism and imperialism.


Timid magnemite said:
Btw, it's PROPAGANDA, with an A, not "propoganda", just thought you should know.
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Timid magnemite said:
Point is, it's not a f-ing joke. I just educated you
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Also, such a toxic entitlement, wth.
 
Love that we're back to defending posting literal fascist propaganda on a forum for a children's video game, after ranting about how white queers like me are keeping smol trans arab beans like her out of the antifascist movement she was never part of. What next, are we going to post why Wagner plundering the gold and diamond resources of Sahelian democracies it overthrew is Actually Existing Socialism?

sakenjane said:
Most of those are simply opinion articles. They even mention there's no way to even check the claims. Still, even there I don't see anything regarding most of those claims that you made.
I would like to see something from somewhere that it's not from an american or radio free asia article. As those both are the main antagonizers of north korea and socialism in general.
Again, I'm not defending north korea per see. But saying that 99% of the population is illiterate and everyone is addicted to meth because of food shortage is simply untrue. Like I said, that's all anti-socialist propaganda.

And honestly, many of those claims can also be true for the united states. Or are all prisioners in the US welltreated and I'm not aware?

Feel free to critisize north korea all you want, I might even join you regarding some topics. But spreading those "they eat babies" kind of conspiracy theories will acomplish nothing besides scaring people away from understanding important topics such as socialism and imperialism.

Also, such a toxic entitlement, wth.
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Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and say that if North Korea is your example of socialism, you're doing more to scare people away from questions about socialism and imperialism than anyone talking about eating babies. Personally, I think trying to sell others on "feudal castes, but socialist-er" is a dead end. Literally the only people who still defend North Korea are the white supremacists who (correctly) view it as a model society in accordance to their beliefs.
 
boo836 said:
Love that we're back to defending posting literal fascist propaganda on a forum for a children's video game, after ranting about how white queers like me are keeping smol trans arab beans like her out of the antifascist movement she was never part of. What next, are we going to post why Wagner plundering the gold and diamond resources of Sahelian democracies it overthrew is Actually Existing Socialism?



Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and say that if North Korea is your example of socialism, you're doing more to scare people away from questions about socialism and imperialism than anyone talking about eating babies. Personally, I think trying to sell others on "feudal castes, but socialist-er" is a dead end. Literally the only people who still defend North Korea are the white supremacists who (correctly) view it as a model society in accordance to their beliefs.
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Tbf Timid Magnemite made it pretty easy to jump into these opinion articles (except for the Human Rights Watch one) with the claims about "everyone there is on meth" and so on, but otherwise i mostly agree.

I rarely even see classic marxists defending North Korea these days as much, but mostly white supremacist bs like Nazbols (who unsurprisingly also love post Deng China), "MAGA communists" and other alt-right groups/people straight up loving them.
 
I dunno what a classic Marxist is exactly but there are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can levy against the DPRK that aren't just the stupidest American propaganda you can find. They're an authoritarian surveillance state who commits plenty of very real and credible human rights violations, how about we talk about that instead of parroting horseshit about every North Korean being an illiterate meth addict or whatever.

Or better yet, let's not talk about it at all because how the fuck is NK even relevant anyways?
 
Divine Retribution said:
I dunno what a classic Marxist is exactly but there are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can levy against the DPRK that aren't just the stupidest American propaganda you can find. They're an authoritarian surveillance state who commits plenty of very real and credible human rights violations, how about we talk about that instead of parroting horseshit about every North Korean being an illiterate meth addict or whatever.

Or better yet, let's not talk about it at all because how the fuck is NK even relevant anyways?
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Yeah good point, lets shift away from North Korea (crazy that it got derailed into this anyway after continued relevant discussion on US-Politics and Elections).

Currently we see new escalations in Middle East between Israel and those Houthi thugs in Yemen who essentially act like they're the Government of that country.

Israel attacked a port in Yemen on Saturday after attacking Syria and Lebanon in the last months and bombing whole Gaza strip into oblivion. Their military of course said it's because the area is used to deliver iranian arms to Yemen. On Friday Houthi missiles for the first time succesfully hit Tel Aviv and apparently one person died and many others got injured. If anyone got more details into this ongoing Israel vs. Houthis conflict that would be nice, but it seems like Israel will be at war with most other middle east countries at this point which only helps Netanjahu and his cronies.
 
How come everyones tactic to get rid of the houthis is just "we'll bomb them and it's over". It doesn't even work, they tried it like 4 times and they're still frolicking around.

If anything this is going to spread israels ammunition shortage even deeper, especially as they aren't extremely successful in anything that isn't bombing defenseless people

biden visiting netanyahu while still with covid means the funniest thing could happen rn and I'm praying it does
 
(I'll just make one last post on this since it's heading off topic)

Divine Retribution said:
I dunno what a classic Marxist is exactly but there are plenty of legitimate criticisms you can levy against the DPRK that aren't just the stupidest American propaganda you can find. They're an authoritarian surveillance state who commits plenty of very real and credible human rights violations, how about we talk about that instead of parroting horseshit about every North Korean being an illiterate meth addict or whatever.

Or better yet, let's not talk about it at all because how the fuck is NK even relevant anyways?
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NYT has reported on NK's meth epidemic: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/world/asia/north-korea-crystal-meth-methamphetamine-drugs-.html

I realize that you're probably just young and ignorant about what goes on in the world outside your smoke filled dorm room, but NK is real place where the people undergo real hardship due to various social ills, including but not limited to drug addiction, in addition to the "very real and credible human rights violations" that you so ably point out. But hey, who gives a f--- about them right? Never mind that buffoons in this thread have spent pages and pages trying to get us all to just sit down and "discuss" a literal NK state press release, and then later tried to backtrack by claiming it was all just a social experiment, lmao. Yes, our hearts are all with Palestine rn, and rightly so, but does that mean we should ignore people who are suffering elsewhere? NK is not some unknowable black box that trend-chasing so-called "leftists" can project their utopian fantasies on, there are certain "facts of the matter" that can't just be dismissed outright. Least of all by someone who probably couldn't even find the Korean peninsula on a map before today.

Anyway, I now yield the floor for discussion of other topics.
 
I know we already did a whole song and dance about not reading into likes but when 6 people "like" a post saying that 99% of a population is illiterate and meth is used to combat hunger I think any previous post those users have made should have a big disclaimer before them with something like "AGREES WITH WHATEVER THEY WANT TO BE TRUE."

I literally memed on that post a minute after it was posted in a thread in Smogoff only to view it now and see a bunch of people believing it's fact, when the source is their... Korean partner? Meth is rampant in North Korea but it has nothing to do with hunger. It's one of the few drugs they can mass manufacture with the resources they have available to them. There's also little stigma about using meth over there. I also don't know what you guys think is in meth but simply taking meth does not allow you to survive starvation. Genuinely cannot believe I just had to post this and respectfully if you read that and believed it to be true I would recommend you watch Yeonmi Park on the JRE. She'll be right up your alley.

Timid magnemite said:
(I'll just make one last post on this since it's heading off topic)







NYT has reported on NK's meth epidemic: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/world/asia/north-korea-crystal-meth-methamphetamine-drugs-.html



I realize that you're probably just young and ignorant about what goes on in the world outside your smoke filled dorm room, but NK is real place where the people undergo real hardship due to various social ills, including but not limited to drug addiction, in addition to the "very real and credible human rights violations" that you so ably point out. But hey, who gives a f--- about them right? Never mind that buffoons in this thread have spent pages and pages trying to get us all to just sit down and "discuss" a literal NK state press release, and then later tried to backtrack by claiming it was all just a social experiment, lmao. Yes, our hearts are all with Palestine rn, and rightly so, but does that mean we should ignore people who are suffering elsewhere? NK is not some unknowable black box that trend-chasing so-called "leftists" can project their utopian fantasies on, there are certain "facts of the matter" that can't just be dismissed outright. Least of all by someone who probably couldn't even find the Korean peninsula on a map before today.



Anyway, I now yield the floor for discussion of other topics.
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You don't seem to understand that correlation does not equal causation. Meth can be commonly used. It doesn't fucking mean it's used to fight starvation.

Also, no leftist is defending N Korea. You are genuinely so misinformed that I can't even figure out how your brain developed to believe what it does. You're like the liberal equivalent of a Q Anon conspiracists which I didn't think existed until now.
 
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