The RU Viability Ranking Thread

[HuntSaboteur]

Ninjask is an okay Pokemon, but it's got a couple pretty major problems that stop it from really being effective. First and foremost, anything with a phazing move is completely shutting it down. Stuff like Rhydon, Steelix, even Mandibuzz can all stop it from successfully getting a pass off. Another pretty big issue that Ninjask has is that it can't stop Taunt, which means that stuff like Qwilfish and some Aggron can stop it from passing successfully. Finally, the pure offensive pressure from some pokemon in RU such as Nidoqueen can be enough to OHKO the receiver once Ninjask gets the pass off. Again, an alright Pokemon, but it's really just fine where it is given its flaws and the support required to use it effectively.

Ninjask, as I have used it and as practically every other user has, should be used as a lead. Phazing isn't that common in leads. That is not to say that it is bad, far from it: if people used Ninjask more, phazing would become more common and what you said would be more accurate. Again, Nidoqueen is a late-game sweeper, which is certainly not the time of the battle when Ninjask is used.

OHKOing Ninjask is a problem, but it can be circumvented by using Focus Sash. Swords Dance first turn, the opponent reduces you to 1 HP, you Speed Boost. Then Baton Pass into something that resists the opponent's attacks (Entei, I have found, is an astounding partner to Ninjask, as it can OHKO half the meta with Extremespeed, let alone Flare Blitz, after a SD boost).

Mandibuzz is so rare that it shouldn't be taken into account on its own when making a team.

What you have said is correct, but only applies to using Ninjask late on in the game. It also is why Ninjask is not worthy of an S Rank, only A or possibly upper B.

 

[DittoCrow]

There isn't really such a thing as "leads" anymore because of Team Preview. You can lead with one of the many phazers/Haze/Taunt users in the tier:

• Steelix
• Drapion
• Entei
• Rhydon
• Druddigon
• Hariyama
• Amoonguss
• Qwilfish
• Aerodactyl

Those are just off the top of my head, plus you can use something like Cryogonal or Poliwrath to get rid of the recipient Pokemon.

Furthermore, priority from Pokemon such as Entei, Piloswine, and Kabutops can make it tough for Ninjask to do anything. It is also rarely able to Baton Pass later in the game due to Stealth Rock and inability to safely switch in. Hail also negates Leftovers and makes it harder for Ninjask to use Substitute to its full potential. In my opinion it should be D Rank since it really isn't all that effective in RU. "These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that."

 

[Molk]

Okay, in time for the new tier shifts, im making some moves :3

I have moved Lanturn down from A rank -----> B rank
I have moved Uxie up from A rank -----> S rank
I have moved Cinccino up from B rank -----> A rank
I have added Gardevoir to untested
I have added Musharna to untested
I have moved Mesprit up from C rank -----> B rank

Im not 100% sure about where emboar should be, so i just kept it in B rank for now


Also, here are the new proposed changes!

adding Camerupt to untested
Carracosta up from untested -----> C rank
Braviary down from A rank -----> B rank
Ninjask up from untested -----> somewhere

regarding the above posts, im going to have to agree with Dittocrow and Windsong on Ninjask, its an alright mon that has the potential to be a real threat, but it has a ton of crippling flaws that prevent it from being an S rank, A rank, or even B rank Pokemon imo. As mentioned before, Ninjask is stopped cold by many things such as taunt, multihit moves, and phazing moves. Theres no shortage of these Pokemon in RU and this just makes Ninjask's job harder, sadly. Ninjask also suffers from having a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, meaning it can usually only pull off a baton pass once, twice at most, if they are on the field. To top it all off Ninjask itself is incredibly frail and dies to a light breeze (especially because its weak to flying!), its Bug/Flying typing has countless weaknesses to common types, and that makes ninjask all the harder to use. Imo, Ninjask is probably a C rank or D rank Pokemon, thoughts?

 

[Yonko7]

I think Carracosta should go to B rank.

Carracosta has two stable sets: the Shell Smash sweeper, and the support set.

The Shell Smash set is a dangerous sweeper that once set up can bring the pain. For example, if Carracosta carries Stone Edge / Waterfall / Ice Beam, then there are three common Pokemon that can boast about not being 2KOed by Carracosta: Quagsire, Poliwrath, and Ferroseed. Now this is assuming Shell Smash boost and Life Orb. The other vast majority of the RU tier is either 2KOed or OHKOed by either of the coverage attacks. The main flaw for the offensive set is that it is easy to revenge, due to its low Speed even after the boost, which means Choice Scarfers can still get it, or even fast Pokemon like Sceptile. Jolly / Timid Sceptile outspeeds a Jolly Carracosta. To make up for the Speed deficit Aqua Jet gets the nod over Ice Beam, but this hurts its wallbreaking power. With the lack of Ice Beam, there are more Pokemon that can take on Carracosta, namely Ferroseed and Tangrowth.

The defensive set is great tank thanks to either Solid Rock or Sturdy and a great base Defense. The defensive set can easily take a hit from top-tier threats like Entei and Kabutops and take them down with Waterfall / Aqua Jet. The priority from Aqua Jet is useful for knocking out a weakened sweeper. Carracosta is the bulkier counterpart to Kabutops that has better defensive abilities.

Sadly, Carracosta has specific moves it needs, like Ice Beam or Aqua Jet, but when it chooses one it loses to the other. Carracosta can't have everything, so when it picks Ice Beam is loses to offensive teams, but picking Aqua Jet loses to defensive teams. It simply can't have everything.

 

[Ningildo]

Seeing as I've used Carracosta a lot before leaving due bs no internet and school, I think I can give my two cents at least.

I agree Carracosta should be B rank.

Yes, the two sets Yonko mentioned are pretty much the only ones worth using, but I prefer using the Shell Smash set with a moveset of Aqua Jet / Ice Beam / Stone Edge. Why? Well, Stone Edge is your main move to crush walls and Ice Beam takes care of Steelix in 2 hits regardless if it matters that much. Aqua Jet is obvious so no explanation. Basically, you mix up the wall breaking and offensive team sweeeping potential and get a Carracosta can handle both situations to extent. (Did I mention Ice Beam lets you avoid Stone Miss issues against Lilligant and Sigilyph?) So there's that.

The defensive set is already explained by Yonko, no need to repeat the same thing.

I should mention, however, that the Shell Smashing set LOVES having an opponent choice locked with Trick, as that creates an opening to sweep.

I'll give a bit more input later.

 

[sickweare]

I do very much love Carracosta, but it really needs help or else it will be walled by Tangrowth, no matter what. If you're running a mixed shell smash set, then it's not as much of a problem, but it can't do it alone. It has many weaknesses and some Pokemon can still outspeed it after a boost. That being said, if you let a Carracosta set up, it's gg. I will have to test him more on the simulator before agreeing with the above. For now, I am still leaning towards C. Give me some time, and I will let you know what I think (:

 

[Ningildo]

Cresselia's disappearance form the tier isn't reason enough to move Uxie in S-rank.
Uxie isn't nearly as good as Cresselia was so it should stay under A-rank unless it manages to do something better than Cresselia that is meaningful in this metagame.

The only reason Uxie was in A-tier when Cresselia was here was due Cresselia doing some of the things it did better, with Uxie still having things it only could do over Cressy (such as being a pivot due U-turn). But since Cresselia is gone, Uxie is once again the best in RU at what it does: supporting the team. Idg why Uxie has to be better then something that is banned when it already is the best at what it does besides the mon banned.

 

[BluhBluh]

regarding the above posts, im going to have to agree with Dittocrow and Windsong on Ninjask, its an alright mon that has the potential to be a real threat, but it has a ton of crippling flaws that prevent it from being an S rank, A rank, or even B rank Pokemon imo. As mentioned before, Ninjask is stopped cold by many things such as taunt, multihit moves, and phazing moves. Theres no shortage of these Pokemon in RU and this just makes Ninjask's job harder, sadly. Ninjask also suffers from having a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, meaning it can usually only pull off a baton pass once, twice at most, if they are on the field. To top it all off Ninjask itself is incredibly frail and dies to a light breeze (especially because its weak to flying!), its Bug/Flying typing has countless weaknesses to common types, and that makes ninjask all the harder to use. Imo, Ninjask is probably a C rank or D rank Pokemon, thoughts?

Have to agree with you on Ninjask being D-rank.
Ninjask needs Rapid Spin support due to its weakness to SR. It's also quite predictable. If it leads, people will most likely predict a Substitute or a Protect at first turn and will either switch to a Pokemon with a multihit move (hello Scarf Cincinno with Skill Link) to break the Sub, or use a priority move if the Pokemon has one. Ninjask being frail doesn't help in that regard.

If it doesn't lead, most people would try to set up SR ASAP to prevent Ninjask from coming to the field early in play. They would also try to eliminate Wish support to prevent Ninjask from healing and spinblock to stop Rapid Spinners from removing hazards.

Therefore, Ninjask needs to have its team built around it to ensure that it can Baton Pass safely. Otherwise, it will be a suicide mission for our poor ninja bug.

 

[JockeMS]

Ok, so I've been using Gardevoir the past week or so, and it's has been surprisingly good; well above my expectations.

Good movepool, great Special Attack, and relatively good Speed are some of the most beneficial factors to this I think. Trace is another great trait, even though it's situational at times and won't work every game. The ability to actually copy Nidoqueen's Sheer Force is great, especially if you use Life Orb like I did, as it removes the recoil and gives all of Gardevoir's moves a boost in power; don't forget the fact that Gardevoir can switch in on Nidoqueen's Sludge Wave and then KO her with Psychic (252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gardevoir: 177-211 (63.89 - 76.17%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock). There are other abilities Gardevoir can copy and use to its advantage as well, such as Magic Guard from Clefable, Regenerator from Slowking and Tangrowth, Lightningrod and Motor Drive from Manectric and Electivire, and Weak Armor from Kabutops, although that one i situational. The usual "copy Swift Swim/Chlorophyll to revenge kill weather sweepers" deal applies to this as well, especially with a Choice Scarf.

The fact that Gardevoir sits at base 80 Speed is also good, as it can at least tie with non-Choice Scarf Medicham and Gallade, as well as Kabutops. And even then people should be using Adamant Kabutops.

Gardevoir can also support its team with dual screens, rain & sun, etc., although it faces stiff competition from Uxie and Mesprit, who both have access to Stealth Rock and have better overall bulk. However, Gardevoir has access to some niche support moves that the other two lacks, which can come in handy for specific teams and setups.

All in all, Gardevoir is a really solid Pokémon, especially offensive variants. Great offenses and versatility, and depsite being physically weak and vulnerable to certain priority moves, it does its job well. Slightly subpar Speed, but can handle some of the greater Pokémon in the tier, most notably Nidoqueen, and then use her power against the opponent on top of that.
The fact that Gardevoir doesn't need much support itself is great as well, at least that's what I experienced with Gardevoir on my team; Gardevoir supported its teammates more than the other way around.

So, I would say Gardevoir is a solid B rank Pokémon, as it doesn't have as big flaws as the Pokémon with C rank.

Here's the set I was using, if you're curious:

Hide

Gardevoir @ Life Orb
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball

Disclaimer: The choices of Gardevoir's moves really depends on the team, and these moves are the most ideal for mine. For example, I know Thunderbolt is the ideal choice over Energy Ball most of the time.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Okay, first thing.

I second Gardevoir for B Rank.

Gardevoir is a very good Pokemon in RU. It has an awesome movepool, meaning it can run some good sets quite well. It has a great support movepool, and it can do its support job really well. Also, it has awesome offensive sets, which have overall great coverage, it can Trace, which is a useful ability, and check Nidoqueen, which is also nice. With Sheer Force and LO it literally hits really goddamn hard. I also like the Scarf set because it can revenge kill some shit, namely Scolipede, which is nice. Of course, it's vulnerable physically, but it's no slouch in the RU tier.

Also, one more thing.

I'd like to nominate Whimsicott for D-Rank, if not E-Rank. It's really fucking horrible and gets shut down way, way too easily. Just about any Grass-type can come in and laugh at it, since it cannot do anything to them. Roselia in particular, while being great, likes setting up Spikes in its face or just throwing a Sludge Bomb at it. Whimsicott also provides a free attack boosts for Sawsbuck and AFROBULL, which is not a good idea. Giving them a free attack boost is death knell, and them hitting all of your Pokemon pretty goddamn hard is never ever a good thing. Whimsicott also has no offensive presence, and is pretty pathetic overall. It needs a demotion.

 

[DittoCrow]

"Just about any Grass-type" cannot come in on Whimsicott: Sceptile, Lilligant, and Rotom-C will all hate Stun Spore and Roselia will get smashed by Encore if it uses Spikes. Sawsbuck and Afrobull aren't even that common and Whimsicott can just U-turn out. Obviously Whimsicott is not C Rank for its SubSeed set. "Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective." Sounds like Whimsicott to me.

Also Braviary at B Rank :>

 

[Molk]

Okay, im going to move some things today ^_^

So here are the changes ive made with the ranks

I moved Braviary from A rank -----> B rank
I moved Ninjask from untested -----> D rank
I moved Gardevoir from untested -----> B rank
I moved Carracosta from untested -----> B rank
I moved Emboar from B rank -----> A rank

I know that i didnt move Emboar before, but i have used it quite a bit in the past few days or so and i have to say that it has been performing excellently for me. Its Scarf set still hits really hard and it a cool niche check to things like Sceptile, Lilligant, and Blizzard users. Emboar has been progressively getting better over the metagame shifts, and i now truely believe that it deserves A rank, feel free to argue against it if you want, though.

I also remember some discussion of moving Cryogonal back to A rank, but ill see if any of it leaks here.

here are the new proposed changes too!

adding Camerupt to untested
moving Whimsicott down from C rank ----> D rank

Im pretty indifferent to both changes at the moment, but ill be watching to see how things turn out! :3

 

[sickweare]

I have to say, I've been using Carracosta more in some battles and it is actually really, really good at tearing offensive cores apart, once you get rid of the Ferroseeds (who uses them that much?) that appear. Bulky Lilligant can also prove to be a problem, but I'm definitely in this B-tier bandwagon. Costa is one extremely underrated threat in the RU metagame.

 

[Nails]

Carracosta is kinda cool but in practice it is pretty easy to deal with. Even after a smash it's outrun by anything above scolipede and its typing isn't good defensively so it's not difficult to revenge kill. You have to give it a free turn to set up and in a lot of cases get it in cleanly as well to keep sturdy intact. If i can have a free turn and no hazards there are many pokemon i'd rather give that free turn to. dd crawdaunt, sd or dd gatr, gorebyss, rock polish rhydon, rock polish aggron, ss omastar, and those are just the pokemon it shares a type with. I might be exaggerating a little but you need to give it a lot of support for it to work. that's fitting of a c tier pokemon.

Hitmonlee to b tier. It's easy to set up if you're using the stupid fake out normal gem unburden shit and it hits really hard.

Clefable to b tier at least, idk how it dropped to c but damn. it's good.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

DittoCrow, you bring up a nice point. I was only considering Whimsi's shitty as fuck SubSeed set, but the support set seems nice. Although I do question its ranking because Whimsicott seems to fit both C and D ranks well

"Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective"

Hmm. Whimsicott has its niche as a support Pokemon, crippling shit with Stun Spore, allowing slower Pokemon like Absol to set up more easily. It can also Taunt and shit, and do more. At the same time, it has zero offensive presence and is rather frail.

"Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the RU metagame, but are decent enough to justify their use on some teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their one specific task and fail at doing anything more than that."

I don't know really. Whimsi is more or less only capable of doing one thing. It has a case of being mediocre otherwise, but its support set is the only thing it is capable of doing successfully.

Even then, I really don't know where Whimsicott belongs.

Move Cryo back up to A Rank. Cryo is one of two only spinners worth using, and is a solid reliable Pokemon when it comes to it. Cryogonal has that massive Special Defense, which allows it to be a great special wall. This is also helped by the fact that the majority of Cryo's weaknesses are gonna hit its pathetic 30 Defense stat, so it can just focus on its special side. Also, Offensive Cryo is decent and can hurt stuff pretty hard. It also puts up a nice fight with the majority of spinblockers. I'd say it's A Rank worthy.

Also, Roselia for B Rank. I don't know why this thing was demoted, but Rose is really good in RU (despite dropping to NU. That drop means nothing as far as Roselia's viability in RU goes). She makes for a great spiker for defensive teams, and with Eviolite giving her great special bulk, she can lay many layers. Eviolite makes her an effective special wall, taking repeated onslaughts from the likes of many special attackers such as Sceptile, Galvantula, and Lilligant. It also can safely take on Lanturn. Natural Cure is fantastic, meaning if she needs to switch out and is statused, she really does not care about status at all. This also allows her to use Rest as her form of recovery, healing her to full health, and as soon as she switches out and back in, she can do her job at full health. If you really want to, she has Aromatherapy to be a cleric, although Rose does have a 4MSS case. Base 100 Special Attack ensures Roselia is no sitting duck either, and can do some decent damage in return when needed. Of course Roselia has that pathetic Defense stat and there are Fire-types running amok, but Rose's perks are many, not to mention Roselia doesn't need support, rather, she supports the team well. B-Rank, please.

Later I will go test Vanilluxe's effectiveness in this meta and come back here and give a ranking for it. Just saying.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Can't say much on this medium but whimsicott is the best sun supporter in the tier bar none in terms of consistently getting sun up, preventing opponent disruption. And giving a teammate set up in the form of Memento. In my opinion the sun support combined with the standard support set makes Whimsi a solid C Pokemon.

 

[Molk]

Some other RU players and i had a discussion on irc about the viability ranks and decided to make some quick changes to the list, and we also brought up some other potential changes to consider in the future.

Here are the changes that have been made as of now

Stoutland has been removed entirely because it sucks
Cryogonal up from B rank -----> A rank
Electivire up from D rank -----> C rank
Clefable up from C rank -----> B rank (some people also proposed higher for this but we'll see).

Here are some of the other changes that were brought up on irc that i would like some opinions on

Hitmonlee up from C rank -----> B rank
Skuntank down from C rank -----> D rank
Gabite up from D rank -----> C rank
Crustle down from B rank -----> C rank
Jynx up from B rank -----> A rank
Fraxure down from B rank -----> C rank
Samurott up from C rank ----> B rank

We also decided that while Subseed whimsicott is indeed really shitty, but Whimsicott's niche as a weather supporter is enough to justify a ranking above D, and therefore it will be staying C rank for the time being.

After some testing, i think moving Jynx up to A rank is reasonable. Jynx got a significant buff with hail returning to RU, recieving a much more powerful STAB attack, that when combined with the residual damage caused by hail allows her to score many KOs she cant with just Ice Beam alone. She also has a semi reliable sleep move to eliminate potential checks from the match, and access to Nasty Plot to further bolster her amazing Special Attack stat. 95 is a pretty sweet speed tier in RU, outpacing threats such as Moltres and Lilligant, while tying with others such as Uxie and Drapion, making Jynx all the more threatening. Dry Skin is pretty cool too, although many of the Water-types in RU can KO her with their coverage moves, its still a pretty nifty way to recover hp in a pinch, and makes jynx a pretty good check to Omastar, who is often capable of plowing through teams if it gets a chance to shell smash. Im not sure if everyone agrees with me on this, but i would be happy to move Jynx up to A rank as of now, and i apologize to anyone who wanted it to be moved up before and didnt get their wish.

Otherwise im pretty indifferent, although im not 100% sure about moving Fraxure down to C rank...

Anyway, ill be making the rest of the proposed moves soon unless there are any objections! :)

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Some other RU players and i had a discussion on irc about the viability ranks and decided to make some quick changes to the list, and we also brought up some other potential changes to consider in the future.

Here are the changes that have been made as of now

Stoutland has been removed entirely because it sucks
Cryogonal up from B rank -----> A rank
Electivire up from D rank -----> C rank
Clefable up from C rank -----> B rank (some people also proposed higher for this but we'll see).

Here are some of the other changes that were brought up on irc that i would like some opinions on

Hitmonlee up from C rank -----> B rank Yes
Skuntank down from C rank -----> D rank I don't know, really
Gabite up from D rank -----> C rank Perhaps
Crustle down from B rank -----> C rank No way
Jynx up from B rank -----> A rank Yes
Fraxure down from B rank -----> C rank Absolutely not
Samurott up from C rank ----> B rank Yes

We also decided that while Subseed whimsicott is indeed really shitty, but Whimsicott's niche as a weather supporter is enough to justify a ranking above D, and therefore it will be staying C rank for the time being.

After some testing, i think moving Jynx up to A rank is reasonable. Jynx got a significant buff with hail returning to RU, recieving a much more powerful STAB attack, that when combined with the residual damage caused by hail allows her to score many KOs she cant with just Ice Beam alone. She also has a semi reliable sleep move to eliminate potential checks from the match, and access to Nasty Plot to further bolster her amazing Special Attack stat. 95 is a pretty sweet speed tier in RU, outpacing threats such as Moltres and Lilligant, while tying with others such as Uxie and Drapion, making Jynx all the more threatening. Dry Skin is pretty cool too, although many of the Water-types in RU can KO her with their coverage moves, its still a pretty nifty way to recover hp in a pinch, and makes jynx a pretty good check to Omastar, who is often capable of plowing through teams if it gets a chance to shell smash. Im not sure if everyone agrees with me on this, but i would be happy to move Jynx up to A rank as of now, and i apologize to anyone who wanted it to be moved up before and didnt get their wish.

Otherwise im pretty indifferent, although im not 100% sure about moving Fraxure down to C rank...

Anyway, ill be making the rest of the proposed moves soon unless there are any objections! :)

Alright, those are my answers to each of the proposed changes. Good removal of Stoutland-it's not viable in RU. Also, I agree with Cryo for A. He's a fantastic spinner, second only to 'Tops. Evire, despite my previous proposal for the bottom ranking, I agree with because he's not that bad-he just needs tons of support to work effectively. Agree with Clefable (why the fuck was it moved down in the first place, lol)

Hitmonlee deserves B-Rank. He's a very strong Pokemon, and those Reckless Hi Jump Kicks hurt like hell. He also has a fine movepool, with priority in Sucker Punch, Mach Punch, etc. Also has Stone Miss and Double-Edge. Unburden is also a nice asset (just avoid using Fake Out-it sucks). If you really want to, you can even use Hitmonlee as a spinner, and it can do it modestly, though not recommended. It's a solid B.

Skuntank, I really don't know. The thing about it is that it's got lots of competition, even then I don't know where it belongs.

Gabite kinda fits into C nicely. It's not really nicheless, nor is it necessarily a one tricker. It has its niche as a dragon with great dual STAB's, but it has its flaws too. It also has competition from Druddigon and Fraxure. I think it's C worthy.

Crustle-NO! Crustle is great in RU-he can set up many hazards at once, and is very good at that thanks to that bulk and Sturdy. He also has a nice niche as a Shell Smash sweeper, and can wreck whole teams to pieces after a boost. I don't think it deserves a demotion.

Jynx is definitely A worthy. It has good STAB's, and in hail, it can hit hard with Blizzard and Psyshock, and NP helps. Lovely Kiss literally eliminates one Pokemon. A rank for sure.

As for Fraxure, I disagree. The lone fact that it can be very threatening with Dragon Dance, not to mention it has perfect coverage, is enough to keep it in B.

Samurott is good. I don't need to explain why.

 

[Molk]

Okay, as promised i have made most of the changes that were proposed before, although some got a ton of opposition and didnt end up being moved :/. So out of the changes that were proposed, here were the ones that happened!

Hitmonlee up from C rank -----> B rank
Gabite up from D rank -----> C rank
Jynx up from B rank -----> A rank
Samurott up from C rank ----> B rank


After talking with a few other people we decided that while skuntank was almost completely outclassed at its role, it had enough of a niche to justify C rank in the form of Sucker Punch, Aftermath, and Fire Blast! Not to mention more special bulk, so i decided not to move it.


Crustle and Fraxure got a ton of opposition both on the forums and on irc, and reasonably so. Crustle is one of the best Spikers available in RU, getting access to both Stealth Rock and Spikes, decent defensive typing, Sturdy, and a high base 125 Defense stat to back it all up. Using these positive traits Crustle can set up multiple layers of entry hazards against most teams. Crustle recieves competition from Smeargle as a Spiker, but unlike the painter, it can actually take a hit or two and can hit common leads such as Uxie and Snover hard in return. As mentioned by Scraftyisthebest, Crustle is also capable of running a deadly Shell Smash set that can sweep most teams if given the chance to set up, and although its somewhat lacking in the speed department, it has just enough to do its job, as an added bonus it has more than enough physical bulk to take the common priority moves in RU, really only being threatened by Aqua Jet. Solid B rank imo.

After sufficient testing, it is safe to say that Fraxure is still a baller, and there is no reason to demote him, he recieves some competition from Druddigon, who hits slightly harder, has a better movepool, and is much bulkier, but Fraxure's higher Speed and Access to Dragon Dance give him a solid niche of his own in RU. After a Dragon Dance boost Fraxure is capable of demolishing the FWG cores that are often seen in RU, resisting all 3 of their STABs and doing serious damage in return with Outrage. Fraxure has enough bulk with Eviolite to take the common priority attacks in RU bar like Absol Sucker Punch, and its unique typing makes it hard for the common scarfers in RU to revenge kill it (most of them are electric-types such as manectric, but they struggle to KO it in general). All in all, Fraxure is deserving of B rank, and i dont see that changing any time soon, its a very solid Pokemon.

 

[JockeMS]

One order of ice cream coming up.

Ok, so Vanilluxe. Vanilluxe is kinda mediocre. Great Special Attack aside, its other stats are pretty subpar, especially its Speed; it misses out on base 80's by one point... Its movepool is even worse than Glaceon's, consisting of only Ice-type moves basically.

So, from my experience, Vanilluxe has functioned well despite these flaws. Blizzard coming of 110 base Special Attack, while not Glaceon powerful, hurts a lot. The set I've been using the most is just a regular Autotomize set basically, which just boosts Vanilluxe mediocre Speed to allow it to outspeed the majority of the tier. While it packs a punch, it lacks the coverage to sweep at any point, and is best saved to mid-lategame. I've also found its power quite lacking when not using Life Orb, (I was using Leftovers first to cover the life it lost from Substitute) even with that SpA.

The other set I used, although not as much as the Autotomize set, is the basically the same SubProtect Glaceon uses, but faster. It outspeeds Nidoqueen among others, which is a huge plus, but other than that, besides the fact that it is a lot weaker than Glaceon, Vanilluxe's version of this set is no different.

When it comes down to the actual ranking, I feel Vanilluxe requires too much support to be a B rank Pokémon. First of all, Vanilluxe NEEDS to be on a hail team, otherwise you're better off using another Pokémon. And then depending on what moves it uses besides Blizzard, it will have trouble with certain Pokémon. For example, Hidden Power Ground is the most useful Hidden Power to use, but that means Slowking basically stops it cold; even if you opt to use Signal Beam over Substitute (the preferred option for the last move imo) Vanilluxe can barely win, if at all. So in addition to Snover and its hail, Vanilluxe needs team support to cover the threats it can't beat itself as well. The reason I got it to work as well as I did is because my team was covering basically everything that could pose a problem to Vanilluxe.

So, in the end, I would give Vanilluxe a C rank. It needs significant support, and faces stiff competition for a spot on a hail team, that's for sure.

Here's the sets I was using, if you were curious:

Hide

Vanilluxe @ Life Orb
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Autotomize
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power Ground
- Substitute

Vanilluxe @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 24 HP / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power Ground

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Top tier pokemon such as Cresselia and Nidoqueen go into S

This is from the OP. Replace Cress's mention with Uxie, please.

Also, I have two proposals I'd like to make.

I'd like to propose moving Roselia up to B. I don't know why this thing was demoted in the first place, but let's face it; Roselia is one of, if not the best defensive spikers in the RU tier. Eviolite along with a Grass/Poison typing allows her to be an effective special wall, taking repeated onslaughts from some of RU's top special attackers such as Sceptile, Galvantula, and Lilligant. She also has Spikes, of course, and is one of the most reliable Pokemon at doing this job. She also has Natural Cure, meaning she simply does not care about status and can simply switch to heal it off if one of her counters comes in. This also allows her to use Rest effectively, so she can heal herself to full HP and NOT become a deadweight. This is a great perk. If you really want to, she also has access to other support moves such as Sleep Powder, Toxic Spikes, and Aromatherapy, all of which can be helpful for the team. 100 Special Attack ensure's that she is no sitting duck either, and can deal some decent chunks of damage with Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb. Of course, Roselia has flaws in that horrid Defense stat, some bad weaknesses, and such, but her perks more than outshine that. Roselia for B-Rank!

Also, I'd like to propose moving Sandslash down to E-Rank. When you remove the obvious Munchlax and Dusknoir from the picture, Sandslash is arguably the biggest crutch in the tier-there is no way you can make a conscious effort to use this thing without artificially making your team worse. Sandslash rarely, if ever, gets a chance to spin, and in most games, it only sets up Stealth Rock, which is done better by Nidoqueen and Steelix, or even any SR Pokemon in general. Sandslash only has average physical bulk at best, so it usually is literally 2HKO'd by practically any decent physical attacker. Its special defense is atrocious and makes it OHKO'd by any special attacker. Sandslash also cannot touch any spinblocker. When it comes to the five RU Pokemon who can spin: Kabutops, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Cryogonal, and Sandslash, Sandslash is the worst of the bunch. It usually does nothing at all, and all of the things it does can be done by a better Pokemon. Sandslash is all in all an awful Pokemon.

Sandslash for E-Rank!

 

[Molk]

This is from the OP. Replace Cress's mention with Uxie, please.

Fixed! Thanks for pointing that out, i probably never would've noticed it myself x_x.

 

[JockeMS]

I want to propose Cradily to be added to Untested.

I think it has enough things going for it to make it usable in RU. I haven't tried it out yet, but intend to do so sometime soon.

The first thing that is good about Cradily is its defenses. 86 / 97 / 107 defenses are good if not great, and access to Recover gives it surviability unlike other things. Its typing is both good and bad, but the addition of Storm Drain makes it a tad better. Storm Drain allows it to take on the many Water-type in the tier much better, and it isn't has threatened by the likes of Slowking and Qwilfish as the other Grass-types due to its Rock typing canceling out its weaknesses to what they usually use for Grass-types; unless Slowking uses Ice Beam for some reason. Storm Drain also boosts its Special Attack, which makes Cradily hit relatively hard as well; 81 SpA is good for a defensive Pokémon. The Rock typing also helps against Cinccino, who has to use its coverage moves to hit Cradily for at least neutral damage. An Electric-type resistance is good as well. Cradily has access to Swords Dance and Curse in its relatively good movepool as well, but I think its defensive capabilities should be highlighted, as I think it can be really difficult to do anything else, besides maybe, just maybe, Curse.

Cradily does have some crippling weaknesses to the common Bug-, Fighting-, and Ice-type moves (and the less common Steel-type moves), but I think its traits are enough to make it usable in the RU tier.

 

[Molk]

Okay, its been a while since ive updated this, so might as well!

I havent moved anything this time, but there are quite a few proposed changes i need opinions on, plus one im gonna propose myself, here they are!

Vanilluxe up from untested -----> C rank
Sandslash down from D rank -----> E rank
Roselia up from C rank -----> B rank
adding Cradily to untested

im going to back up scraftyisthebest on Roselia here, its a pretty good defensive pokemon and one of the best options for a bulky spiker (the other being qwilfish, but ill get to that later). Roselia is one of the best checks for special attacking Water and Grass-types alike, basically flipping off common threats such as Omastar, Lilligant, Rotom-C, and special attacking Sceptile with no afterthought. Roselia isnt a sitting duck either, it has a solid base 100 Special Attack stat and the moves to use it with, posing an immediate threat against the pokemon it switches in on. While Roselia does have some flaws that hold it back, such as its mediocre physical bulk and rival in Amoonguss, i feel rose is more than worthy of B rank.

While im at it, i'd also like to nominate Qwilfish for A rank. Qwilfish has always been a great choice in the RU tier, and with the rising popularity of Pokemon such as Entei, Emboar, Escavalier, and Durant, it really gets a chance to shine in this metagame. Qwilfish is one of the best Spikers available in RU, using a combination of its Intimidate and its great defensive typing to switch in multiple times throughout the match to do its job. Taunt gives Qwilfish a valuable weapon against other support Pokemon such as Ferroseed, Smeargle, Clefable, and Spiritomb, stopping them in their tracks by disabling their support moves, it also makes sure Qwilfish isnt set up fodder. Thunder Wave allows Qwilfish to cripple common offensive Pokemon such as Sceptile, Rotom-C, Durant, and Entei for the rest of the match, making them much easier to deal with for Qwilfish's teammates. Qwilfish can also use some other support moves such as Toxic Spikes, Pain Split, and Haze effectively, but struggles to find a moveslot for them. Thanks to Intimidate, Qwilfish can function as an emergency stop to almost any physical attacker, softening their blows temporarily to make it easier for Qwilfish's teammates to dispose of them, which is very useful in a pinch. All in all, Qwilfish is an excellent pokemon in this metagame, and while it does have a few flaws, they are easily overshadowed by its positive traits, and imo, its reasonable for it to be A rank.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

I strongly disagree Sandslash in E-tier if only because of the fact that no Pokemon is nearly as bad or useless Munchlax (which just sits there and does nothing) or Metang (lol). Its somewhat usable, and therefore doesn't deserve to be E-Ranked - its just usually outclassed, which makes it D-tier. Honestly, no Pokemon deserves to be moved down to E-tier ever unless they are Munchlax and Metang.