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Lower Tiers The RU Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
- Status
23:25 Texas why is altaria top C
23:25 Texas altaria is crap
23:25 spambitches lovesync: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/fuck -- erasing the bias to mental summons is lagging it's weird crap ass )
23:26 --- Texas has banned *!*@synIRC-99C63522.hsd1.co.comcast.net
23:26 *** spambitches was kicked by Texas (Texas)
23:26 *** Novaray quit (Quit: Novaray)
23:27 Texas molk
23:27 Texas hitmonchan to C
23:27 Texas vanilluxe to D
23:27 Texas golem to D
23:27 Texas Linoone to D
23:27 Molk hitmonchan to C sounds reasonable
23:27 Molk dunno anything about golem
23:28 Molk luxe and linoone probably still deserve C
23:28 Molk and tbh i really like altaria
23:28 Texas Exeggutor and Basculin to D
23:28 Texas Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the RU metagame, but are decent enough to justify their use on some teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that.
23:28 Texas vanilluxe to a T
23:28 Texas the first part is also linoone imo
23:28 Molk dittocrow would have a fit if i moved basculin lol
23:28 Texas linoone doesnt satisfy C imo
23:28 *** Redew left #rarelyused
23:28 Texas Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame
23:28 Texas i disagree for noone
23:29 Texas the others are definitely not C though
23:29 Texas and that needs to be more balanced between D and C
23:29 Molk the definitions really need to be updated
23:29 Molk js
23:29 Texas altaria should be low C imo
23:30 *** cbtzzz is now known as cbt
23:30 Molk and tbh i really think exeggutor deserves C
23:31 Texas Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the RU metagame, but are decent enough to justify their use on some teams
23:31 Texas eggy right thur
23:31 Molk but
23:31 Texas Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame
23:31 Texas not eggy right thur
23:31 Molk exeggutor isnt medicore
good discussion imo
23:25 Texas altaria is crap
23:25 spambitches lovesync: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/fuck -- erasing the bias to mental summons is lagging it's weird crap ass )
23:26 --- Texas has banned *!*@synIRC-99C63522.hsd1.co.comcast.net
23:26 *** spambitches was kicked by Texas (Texas)
23:26 *** Novaray quit (Quit: Novaray)
23:27 Texas molk
23:27 Texas hitmonchan to C
23:27 Texas vanilluxe to D
23:27 Texas golem to D
23:27 Texas Linoone to D
23:27 Molk hitmonchan to C sounds reasonable
23:27 Molk dunno anything about golem
23:28 Molk luxe and linoone probably still deserve C
23:28 Molk and tbh i really like altaria
23:28 Texas Exeggutor and Basculin to D
23:28 Texas Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the RU metagame, but are decent enough to justify their use on some teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that.
23:28 Texas vanilluxe to a T
23:28 Texas the first part is also linoone imo
23:28 Molk dittocrow would have a fit if i moved basculin lol
23:28 Texas linoone doesnt satisfy C imo
23:28 *** Redew left #rarelyused
23:28 Texas Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame
23:28 Texas i disagree for noone
23:29 Texas the others are definitely not C though
23:29 Texas and that needs to be more balanced between D and C
23:29 Molk the definitions really need to be updated
23:29 Molk js
23:29 Texas altaria should be low C imo
23:30 *** cbtzzz is now known as cbt
23:30 Molk and tbh i really think exeggutor deserves C
23:31 Texas Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the RU metagame, but are decent enough to justify their use on some teams
23:31 Texas eggy right thur
23:31 Molk but
23:31 Texas Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the RU metagame
23:31 Texas not eggy right thur
23:31 Molk exeggutor isnt medicore
good discussion imo
Yeah, I think Hitmonchan should be C rank - I know I've been saying its Rapid Spin sets suck in the past (and they still do) but I've always overlooked its offensive sets, which are actually pretty decent. It has strong coverage moves, a strong priority move, and it still hits hard with its STAB moves.
Linoone I haven't seen in ages, but it seems hard to set up, and yet disappointingly easy to stop. There are too many bulky pokemon, hard hitting Pokemon, and Pokemon that do both for Linoone to do anything anymore, and it seems D-Rank to me to an extent. Kinda shameful for a Pokemon that was at one point close to being RU, but Linoone doesn't cut it anymore.
idk about the others but Basculin looks really niche compared to other Water-types that can actually set up, Golem is extremely niche with Rhydon (and Crustle) running around, Vanilluxe has a small niche with Glaceon giving it loads of competition, but Exeggutor seems to be able to actually do a lot of stuff. Maybe it doesn't do its roles excellently but Low or Mid C seems better for Eggy than D-Rank because it can be a pain at times, and it hits like a truck or walls for a while (which by definition is better than D-Rank). I don't find it to be mediocre, although it isn't that good.
Linoone I haven't seen in ages, but it seems hard to set up, and yet disappointingly easy to stop. There are too many bulky pokemon, hard hitting Pokemon, and Pokemon that do both for Linoone to do anything anymore, and it seems D-Rank to me to an extent. Kinda shameful for a Pokemon that was at one point close to being RU, but Linoone doesn't cut it anymore.
idk about the others but Basculin looks really niche compared to other Water-types that can actually set up, Golem is extremely niche with Rhydon (and Crustle) running around, Vanilluxe has a small niche with Glaceon giving it loads of competition, but Exeggutor seems to be able to actually do a lot of stuff. Maybe it doesn't do its roles excellently but Low or Mid C seems better for Eggy than D-Rank because it can be a pain at times, and it hits like a truck or walls for a while (which by definition is better than D-Rank). I don't find it to be mediocre, although it isn't that good.
Yeah Eggy is fine in C in retrospect, all other changes though i stand behind
As i mentioned in the irc discussion i can go along with Hitmonchan being moved up to C rank, its really been the odd one out in D rank for a while imo, and while it recieves some competition from the other Fighting-types and Rapid Spinners (to the point where idk why i'd use Rapid Spin Hitmonchan). Its perks such as Iron Fist Mach Punch and Drain Punch, the ability to hit Slowking hard with a powerful Life Orb boosted Iron Fist Thunderpunch, and possibly even the ability to use agility (Silentverse likes this). Make putting it in C rank pretty justified, i'm not sure where i'd put Hitmonchan in C rank, but unless someone else opposes to promoting it with a solid argument i'm putting it in C for sure.
As for the other Pokemon, i'm going to agree with swamp-rocket that Exeggutor shouldnt be anywhere near D rank, its a pretty powerful and versatile Pokemon in RU, capable of running multiple sets such as Sunny Day, Offensive Trick Room, Choice Specs, and Lumrest with ease, unlike other special attacking Grass-types, Exeggutor doesnt have any trouble with Amoonguss or Roselia at all, just blowing past them with a STAB psychic coming off of a base 125 Special Attack stat (one of the highest special attack stats in RU actually). Not to mention Sleep Powder's an excellent move to have, giving Exeggutor a reliable way to at least temporarily dispose of one Pokemon per match even if it doesnt accomplish anything else, i dont see any reason to demote Exeggutor at the moment.
As for Pokemon such as Linoone, Ice Cream etc. i could see moving some of them down to D rank, but i dont think all of them really deserve to be demoted, some of them such as Vanilluxe and Basculin fit better in Low C imo, but we'll see.
As for the other Pokemon, i'm going to agree with swamp-rocket that Exeggutor shouldnt be anywhere near D rank, its a pretty powerful and versatile Pokemon in RU, capable of running multiple sets such as Sunny Day, Offensive Trick Room, Choice Specs, and Lumrest with ease, unlike other special attacking Grass-types, Exeggutor doesnt have any trouble with Amoonguss or Roselia at all, just blowing past them with a STAB psychic coming off of a base 125 Special Attack stat (one of the highest special attack stats in RU actually). Not to mention Sleep Powder's an excellent move to have, giving Exeggutor a reliable way to at least temporarily dispose of one Pokemon per match even if it doesnt accomplish anything else, i dont see any reason to demote Exeggutor at the moment.
As for Pokemon such as Linoone, Ice Cream etc. i could see moving some of them down to D rank, but i dont think all of them really deserve to be demoted, some of them such as Vanilluxe and Basculin fit better in Low C imo, but we'll see.
I would like to Move druddigon up to top S-Rank. Druddigon is amazing in the current RU metagame. Thanks to his massive attack, he can destroy the entire tier with physical attacks. Mixed druddigon is very good at luring walls, as all of the physical walls get 2HKO'd by flamethrower bar quilfish. Druddigon also has SR and dragon tail, meaning that a defensive set isn't out of the question.
I also would like to demote cinncino to top B-Rank. Cinncino is by no means bad, but the matagame became unkind to it with the loss of nidoqueen. Nidoqueen often checked almost every steel type and steel types have improved drastically with her departure, meaning that escalavier and steelix can switch in for free. Cinccino also is screwed over by ghost types, who can will-o-wisp her, leaving her crippled for the rest of the match.
I also would like to demote cinncino to top B-Rank. Cinncino is by no means bad, but the matagame became unkind to it with the loss of nidoqueen. Nidoqueen often checked almost every steel type and steel types have improved drastically with her departure, meaning that escalavier and steelix can switch in for free. Cinccino also is screwed over by ghost types, who can will-o-wisp her, leaving her crippled for the rest of the match.
I know that cbt is going to shout at me on irc for this, but would quagsire going up to low, possibly mid B be unreasonable?
Quagsire has such good defensive typing for RU it's not funny, and the defense and HP stats it possesses are just amazing. It takes out a LOT of physical threats in RU, minus, like, gallade. Couple it with a special wall and you have a great core right there. The amount of physical attackers in RU really help quagsire, since if you manage to dispatch the 2 special attackers on your opponent's team (and gallade if he has it) then quagsire can just stand there with his derpy face walling the opponents.
Quagsire has such good defensive typing for RU it's not funny, and the defense and HP stats it possesses are just amazing. It takes out a LOT of physical threats in RU, minus, like, gallade. Couple it with a special wall and you have a great core right there. The amount of physical attackers in RU really help quagsire, since if you manage to dispatch the 2 special attackers on your opponent's team (and gallade if he has it) then quagsire can just stand there with his derpy face walling the opponents.
Jynx (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Lovely Kiss
- Psyshock
- Blizzard
- Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast
Ice/Psychic | Oblivious/Forewarn/Dry Skin (DW) | 65/50/35/115/95/95
Hi, I'm proposing moving Jynx upwards, to what tier I'm not sure, but it is definitely more qualified for a higher ranking. Jynx, the queen of hail, is fairly dangerous with a 120 base power stab move under it's belt (blizzard), which has 100% accuracy under hail. Jynx 2HKOs everything notable in the tier (with stealth rock) except THE MIGHTY METANG and Escavalier (if you're not using HP Fire)
Jynx, unlike it's fellow Hail comrades, can function well enough outside of hail, using Ice Beam over Blizzard. Despite this, it's a lot better on hail (which is already great in RU.) It also gets the lovely (lol) Lovely Kiss, which is a (as reliable as you're gonna get) sleep move, which makes it even more dangerous than before. You could run Nasty Plot as a nice boosting move but I've found it's not necessary as Jynx already 2HKO's most of the tier. Absorbing water moves such as Aqua Jet is a plus, making her an amazing check to Kabutops, non DD Gatr, and Omastar.
Jynx is also the fastest Blizzspammer, outside of scarfers such as Rotom-F and the Mighty Walrein, but isn't held down by being locked to blizzard, which would lose to Escavalier and other mons.
pupitar for untested pls
Sandslash in A is wrong. Sandslash is pretty bad in this metagame.
Anyways I would like to propose Articuno be placed into the D Rank. Articuno simply has nothing going for it. Slowking either roasts it with fire blast, tricks it specs, or thunder waves it. While articuno... uses ice beam. How does it do against other top pokemon? Uxie sets up stealth rock for it to switch in on. Escavalier rocks it with an iron head. Durant actually sets up on defensive articuno. Moltres roasts is with fire blast and sceptile nails it with HP rock, if some prior damage is taken. As an ice type it is totally outclassed by everything, like freaking regice. The horrible typing, 4X rock weakness, unimpressive SpA do not warrant it any usage. Any steel type switching in for free and any fire type beating it just don't make it good at all.
Anyways I would like to propose Articuno be placed into the D Rank. Articuno simply has nothing going for it. Slowking either roasts it with fire blast, tricks it specs, or thunder waves it. While articuno... uses ice beam. How does it do against other top pokemon? Uxie sets up stealth rock for it to switch in on. Escavalier rocks it with an iron head. Durant actually sets up on defensive articuno. Moltres roasts is with fire blast and sceptile nails it with HP rock, if some prior damage is taken. As an ice type it is totally outclassed by everything, like freaking regice. The horrible typing, 4X rock weakness, unimpressive SpA do not warrant it any usage. Any steel type switching in for free and any fire type beating it just don't make it good at all.
Added this to the rules: Only nominate viable Pokemon. We are not going to put every legal Pokemon in RU on the list. There is no reason to put stuff that no one will ever use, such as Banette or something. So if you think there is absolutely no reason to use something because it is terrible or completely outclassed, don't post it!
Also @Zygon: Sandslash is not a good spinner at all. It loses to almost all of the common spinblockers and the Pokemon you listed aren't that important to wall. Druddigon and Durant deal massive damage to it while Sandslash can't do much back, and Aerodactyl, Drapion, and Electivire are all uncommon. I guess it can check stuff like Absol and Aggron but there are better Pokemon for that like Poliwrath. Sandslash does not do very well in RU and is definitely not a solid spinner.
Also @Zygon: Sandslash is not a good spinner at all. It loses to almost all of the common spinblockers and the Pokemon you listed aren't that important to wall. Druddigon and Durant deal massive damage to it while Sandslash can't do much back, and Aerodactyl, Drapion, and Electivire are all uncommon. I guess it can check stuff like Absol and Aggron but there are better Pokemon for that like Poliwrath. Sandslash does not do very well in RU and is definitely not a solid spinner.
Sandslash is really, really bad. It should not go any higher than C-Rank, and I'd argue even E-Rank for it and here's why:
- It can't spin reliably whatsoever. Sandslash is hard pressed to ever find a chance to spin. Most spinblockers will hardblock him and most hazard setters themselves have ways to beat him. Qwilfish, Scolipede, and Roselia can spam Waterfall, Megahorn, and Giga Drain to beat him one on one, then just set up their Spikes again. Mesprit herself can crush Sandslash with Psychic or Ice Beam. Golurk prevents Sandslash from spinning and he can wear him down with repeated Earthquakes.
- It's typing is not very good defensively. I guess it resists Stealth Rock, but it makes it beaten shit on by a lot of common threats in the tier. Sceptile, Omastar, Glaceon (yeah Hail makes Sandslash an even greater liability), Slowking, and well, do I need to go down the whole list?
- It's not even that bulky. A vast majority of strong physical attackers still 2HKO it. Absol's SD boosted Night Slash is a 2HKO. Aggron scores a clean 2HKO with Heavy Slam / Aqua Tail as well. Just about anything can 2HKO Sandslash. I think you should get it now.
- It's frail on the special side. This is a pain. Sandslash is unable to take most neutral special attacks in the tier, and special attackers are big and plentiful, so Sandslash will usually be a hindrance to the team.
When it comes to spinning, I'd rather go for Cryogonal, Kabutops, or the Hitmons, all of who have overall better utility, and have actual bulk / attacking prowess. They all have their flaws but I'd say Sandslash is the worst of the lot. Sandslash is perfectly fine in the C-Rank, and is Low C overall.
You're looking at Articuno's bad set. It's C-Rank not for its shitty defensive set, but rather its offensive set. Two solid STAB moves in Ice Beam and Hurricane, along with reliable recovery in Roost, make it a solid offensive threat in RU. Articuno can put some real hurt on the opposition with Ice Beam and Hurricane off of a decent 95 Special Attack. It can hit rather hard and can put some holes in teams. Articuno has flaws in massive SR weakness and rival in Moltres, but thanks to its solid power and bulk to stand out, it's a pretty solid C-Rank, and a High C-Rank too.
Anyways...
Dusknoir needs to be dropped into E-Rank. The fact that it shows up in Team Preview is an immediate sign of a bad player and it does not do its job very well at all. Not to mention there's absolutely zero reason to use Noir over any Ghost-type available.
And one last thing...
This is from the OP. You may want to fix this.
Offensive Articuno in't really that great. Here is a quote from the C&C section.
You know that and it is still weak to Stealth Rock majorly, which Hail teams already struggle with somewhat. That and the fact that it is dependent on Hail to do great amounts of damage. D-Rank seems reasonable.
I'm lazy so I'm going to quote my post from 2 weeks ago regarding this.
Nothing has changed ever since then. As someone else pointed out, Dusknoir, even if it loses, can often bring Kabutops down to enough damage to die from recoil on the next turn. The "small marigin" bit referred to it being bulkier than Misdrevus even with the eviolite attatched - Spiritomb and (especially) Rotom are quite a bit behind.
EDIT: I might as well nominate SOMETHING... Ditto imo should be Low C because it can't really take advantage of that many of the set-up sweepers in RU, and RU is already a bit low on set up sweepers as it is. It can revenge kill a threat sometimes, but it is almost always unable to sweep with the opponent's boosts (sometimes the said Pokemon can defeat it with help from its own Life Orb)
To be quite honest, I think some of the listed Pokemon should be discussion if they are relevant or, in some cases, needs to be removed. Almost half of the Ranking are pretty uncommon, in some case there are Pokemons I've never seen like Cradily, that aren't testing enough, or some Pokemon are irrelevant. I don't understand why Pokemon that are pretty awful or practically outclassed, having a very, very small niche, are listed. Some examples are Natu, Golem, Glalie, Vanilluxe, Ninjask and Skuntank. There are others that can be discuss more, but still, in my opinion, some of those aren't important. Such as Cradily, Linoone, Swoobat or Basculin. Also I think that the description should be rewritten to explain better the rankings. For this reasons, I'd start proposing some changes:
Natu, Ninjask and Glalie are pretty awful Pokemon. Maybe Glalie its better, but still its pretty bad and has a very small niche.
Linoone, in my opinion, its pretty bad Pokemon in this metagame. Because of the offensive nature, Linoone has a very hard time to set-up. Its practically impossible set-up Linoone against Offensive teams because of the constantly pressure. Linoone, also, stiff a lot of competition with others Normal-types like Zangoose, Kangaskhan, Cinccino or Tauros, and unlike those Linoone needs to set-up to do any sort of damage. Even if you find a way to set-up it, there are still Pokemon that can ckeck you at +6. Some examples are Escavalier, Spiritomb, Durant, Kabutops, Tangrowth, Poliwrath and the list goes on depending of what you use: Seed Bomb or Rock Smash.
In my opinion, one of the most important points to use Vanilluxe over Glaceon, was that's capable of outspeed Nidoqueen. Because Nidoqueen is not RU anymore, I dont see the point of loosing a lot of power and bulk for a bit more of Speed that in most situations isn't enough difference.
Natu, Ninjask and Glalie are pretty awful Pokemon. Maybe Glalie its better, but still its pretty bad and has a very small niche.
Linoone, in my opinion, its pretty bad Pokemon in this metagame. Because of the offensive nature, Linoone has a very hard time to set-up. Its practically impossible set-up Linoone against Offensive teams because of the constantly pressure. Linoone, also, stiff a lot of competition with others Normal-types like Zangoose, Kangaskhan, Cinccino or Tauros, and unlike those Linoone needs to set-up to do any sort of damage. Even if you find a way to set-up it, there are still Pokemon that can ckeck you at +6. Some examples are Escavalier, Spiritomb, Durant, Kabutops, Tangrowth, Poliwrath and the list goes on depending of what you use: Seed Bomb or Rock Smash.
In my opinion, one of the most important points to use Vanilluxe over Glaceon, was that's capable of outspeed Nidoqueen. Because Nidoqueen is not RU anymore, I dont see the point of loosing a lot of power and bulk for a bit more of Speed that in most situations isn't enough difference.
Nominating Zweilous for D tier. It's just not good. It Boasts insanely high powered Outrages but that is not enough to justify it terrible accuracy. Plus it is weak to fighting, bug and ice which are common enough types to be a big problem. Plus it's speed is low enough that even slower threats can outspeed. If you use a scarf esca and other steel types wall it. It is plain outclassed by Druddigon who does the exact same thing but infinitely better. From my entire RU experience I have never once had to worry about this as it has bad weaknesses, low speed, low accuracy, and low defense. There is not reason not to use Druddigon instead.
K, i'm going to make some updates now (mostly on C and D rank). The changes i've made are listed below.
On Natu, Ninjask, and Glalie, i believe that all 3 of them are viable enough in RU to stay in D rank, of course their niches arent huge, but thats why i placed them in D rank instead of any of the above ranks. As Dcae mentioned, Ninjask can be very dangerous when played well, being able to pass Speed- and Attack- Boosts to much more threatening Pokemon such as Aggron and Gallade, allowing them to tear through teams and often their standard checks with ease. I think this is enough to justify leaving it in D rank despite its 4x Stealth Rock weakness and fraility. Glalie has a decent niche in offensive Hail Teams as a Spikes Setter, while its typing leaves much to be desired, 80/80/80 bulk is decent enough, especially because it can abuse Ice Body just like other recognized hail threats such as Glaceon and Walrein. Unlike other spikes setters that might fit on hail such as Qwilfish, Glalie can abuse Blizzard just like the hail abusers its support, allowing it to wear down various Blizzard resistances such as Lanturn, making it much easier for something like Scarf Glaceon or Subsplit Rotom-F to clean up, especially with the Spikes that glalie is capable of setting. I'd say Natu's niche is arguably the smallest of the three proposed Pokemon, but i still think its enough for it to stay D rank. Magic Bounce is just sooo useful, and while Natu's pretty frail, it still has reliable recovery and access to Eviolite to boost its bulk to acceptable levels, making blocking entry hazards for the whole match a definite possibility. Natu also has access to other useful support moves such as Reflect, Light Screen, Toxic, and U-turn, making sure that its not total dead weight outside of bouncing hazards and status over the course of the match. Lastly, Natu's the only RU legal Pokemon that prevents Smeargle from accomplishing anything over the course of the match simply by switching in, bouncing every move it commonly uses back at it and using a well timed U-turn to get a teammate in for free, giving an immediate advantage. All in all, i think all 3 of these Pokemon totally deserve to stay in D rank, but if enough people disagree i'll remove them from the list.
As for the changes that i didnt make this time around, such as Cinccino to top B rank, Ditto to low C rank, moving Jynx somewhere higher than Low A rank etc, i'd just like to let you know that i've acknowledged all of your proposals but i'm not totally sure about what to do on them and whether they should be moved or not, most of these changes will probably be added either in a few days or if they get a bit more support, so if you support/object any of these changes be sure to speak up! Also, some Pokemon such as Basculin and Vanilluxe that were proposed for D rank have been moved to low C rank for the time being, but moving them all the way down to D is still a possibility.
updates said:
On Natu, Ninjask, and Glalie, i believe that all 3 of them are viable enough in RU to stay in D rank, of course their niches arent huge, but thats why i placed them in D rank instead of any of the above ranks. As Dcae mentioned, Ninjask can be very dangerous when played well, being able to pass Speed- and Attack- Boosts to much more threatening Pokemon such as Aggron and Gallade, allowing them to tear through teams and often their standard checks with ease. I think this is enough to justify leaving it in D rank despite its 4x Stealth Rock weakness and fraility. Glalie has a decent niche in offensive Hail Teams as a Spikes Setter, while its typing leaves much to be desired, 80/80/80 bulk is decent enough, especially because it can abuse Ice Body just like other recognized hail threats such as Glaceon and Walrein. Unlike other spikes setters that might fit on hail such as Qwilfish, Glalie can abuse Blizzard just like the hail abusers its support, allowing it to wear down various Blizzard resistances such as Lanturn, making it much easier for something like Scarf Glaceon or Subsplit Rotom-F to clean up, especially with the Spikes that glalie is capable of setting. I'd say Natu's niche is arguably the smallest of the three proposed Pokemon, but i still think its enough for it to stay D rank. Magic Bounce is just sooo useful, and while Natu's pretty frail, it still has reliable recovery and access to Eviolite to boost its bulk to acceptable levels, making blocking entry hazards for the whole match a definite possibility. Natu also has access to other useful support moves such as Reflect, Light Screen, Toxic, and U-turn, making sure that its not total dead weight outside of bouncing hazards and status over the course of the match. Lastly, Natu's the only RU legal Pokemon that prevents Smeargle from accomplishing anything over the course of the match simply by switching in, bouncing every move it commonly uses back at it and using a well timed U-turn to get a teammate in for free, giving an immediate advantage. All in all, i think all 3 of these Pokemon totally deserve to stay in D rank, but if enough people disagree i'll remove them from the list.
As for the changes that i didnt make this time around, such as Cinccino to top B rank, Ditto to low C rank, moving Jynx somewhere higher than Low A rank etc, i'd just like to let you know that i've acknowledged all of your proposals but i'm not totally sure about what to do on them and whether they should be moved or not, most of these changes will probably be added either in a few days or if they get a bit more support, so if you support/object any of these changes be sure to speak up! Also, some Pokemon such as Basculin and Vanilluxe that were proposed for D rank have been moved to low C rank for the time being, but moving them all the way down to D is still a possibility.
Sorry, I just think this was missed given the 0 comments given on it.
Also linoone should be a low/mid C in my opinion. It requires much team support for it to get a belly drum off, and preferably hazard support as well.
However, if linoone gets set up as well as one/two spike(s) and a rock though, only strict physical walls that can tank 2 or 3 of the extremeseeds (like quag!) are able to stop the thing in the middle of his sweep. It is only in C due to the amount of team support needed to help it.
Also keep munch on the list, just sayin'.
With the ban of nidoqueen, rhydon deserves low A-Rank. Rhydon has arguably become the best ground type in tier. Defensively, Rhydon has giagantic defensive and despite his poor typing, he is a roadblock to pokemon like entei lacking HP grass and most variants of tauros. Offensively, he has a gigantic base 130 attack and gets STAB on the edgequake combo. CB rhydon can 2HKO the entire metagame with proper prediction. Even alomomola has a chance to be 2HKO'd after SR and a 2 layers of spikes. If pokemon like Zangoose and tauros are low A-Rank, rhydon at least deserves to be with them due to his sheer bulk and power.
Marowak is currently "Untested," and I would like to propose Marowak for Mid- or High-C rank.
Don't let its NU status let you see past the fact that it is perhaps the best Trick Room sweeper legal in RU. With a Thick Club, Marowak has the equivalent of Base 209 (!!!) Attack. It doesn't take Life Orb recoil and it's not locked into one move. If that's not enough power, Marowak can also use Swords Dance, after which it can OHKO literally everything except Alomomola and Tangrowth and things like that. Marowak has access to great moves such as Earthquake, Bonemerang, Fire Punch, Stone Edge, Thunderpunch, Double-Edge (by which Marowak takes no recoil due to Rock Head), and even things like Iron Head, Focus Punch, and Outrage (you probably shouldn't use these, but I think it's funny that Marowak gets Outrage). Clearly, Marowak is able to have unresisted coverage while being able to hit the majority of Pokemon super-effectively. With minimum Speed and maximum Attack, Marowak "outspeeds" and OHKOs an impressive fraction of the metagame. Furthermore, as basically all priority is physical, Marowak doesn't take that much due to its solid base 110 Defense. Also note that RU is Trick Room's strongest tier, with several amazing users including Uxie and Slowking.
Alright, how about maybe the more fun part: why Marowak sucks. It really needs Trick Room support. Too bad there's no held item that makes Trick Room last eight turns, because outside of Trick Room, Marowak is, by the same logic, outsped by just about everything. 60 / 80 is not terrific special bulk, which, combined with Marowak's typing, makes it easily outsped and OHKOd by nearly anything with a STAB, special Water-, Grass-, or Ice-type move. Marowak is one of the most item-relient Pokemon, meaning it is severely crippled if its Thick Club is Tricked away or Knocked Off (Minimum Speed Choice Scarf Marowak is perhaps best used as death fodder). When not on a Trick Room team, Marowak can run a Substitute set, but this really appreciates/needs paralysis support so Marowak can outspeed more than just a couple of things.
Marowak definitely has a notable niche. On my Trick Room team it averages maybe two kills a battle and often severely dents a third Pokemon. However, all of Marowak's sets require solid support in order to be effective. I'm always hesitant to send out Marowak when I know it's going to be slower because it's threatened by a lot of things. I feel like Marowak is a fine example of high-risk, high-reward that can be a monster in the right situations which deserves a place near the higher end of the C tier.
Don't let its NU status let you see past the fact that it is perhaps the best Trick Room sweeper legal in RU. With a Thick Club, Marowak has the equivalent of Base 209 (!!!) Attack. It doesn't take Life Orb recoil and it's not locked into one move. If that's not enough power, Marowak can also use Swords Dance, after which it can OHKO literally everything except Alomomola and Tangrowth and things like that. Marowak has access to great moves such as Earthquake, Bonemerang, Fire Punch, Stone Edge, Thunderpunch, Double-Edge (by which Marowak takes no recoil due to Rock Head), and even things like Iron Head, Focus Punch, and Outrage (you probably shouldn't use these, but I think it's funny that Marowak gets Outrage). Clearly, Marowak is able to have unresisted coverage while being able to hit the majority of Pokemon super-effectively. With minimum Speed and maximum Attack, Marowak "outspeeds" and OHKOs an impressive fraction of the metagame. Furthermore, as basically all priority is physical, Marowak doesn't take that much due to its solid base 110 Defense. Also note that RU is Trick Room's strongest tier, with several amazing users including Uxie and Slowking.
Alright, how about maybe the more fun part: why Marowak sucks. It really needs Trick Room support. Too bad there's no held item that makes Trick Room last eight turns, because outside of Trick Room, Marowak is, by the same logic, outsped by just about everything. 60 / 80 is not terrific special bulk, which, combined with Marowak's typing, makes it easily outsped and OHKOd by nearly anything with a STAB, special Water-, Grass-, or Ice-type move. Marowak is one of the most item-relient Pokemon, meaning it is severely crippled if its Thick Club is Tricked away or Knocked Off (Minimum Speed Choice Scarf Marowak is perhaps best used as death fodder). When not on a Trick Room team, Marowak can run a Substitute set, but this really appreciates/needs paralysis support so Marowak can outspeed more than just a couple of things.
Marowak definitely has a notable niche. On my Trick Room team it averages maybe two kills a battle and often severely dents a third Pokemon. However, all of Marowak's sets require solid support in order to be effective. I'm always hesitant to send out Marowak when I know it's going to be slower because it's threatened by a lot of things. I feel like Marowak is a fine example of high-risk, high-reward that can be a monster in the right situations which deserves a place near the higher end of the C tier.
I'm looking to test out all the Untestedmons as RU used to be my favorite tier and im trying it out again. The first Pokemon i tested was Flareon and let me just say, D-rank for days.
I didn't have the highest hope for Flareon going in, its never had much to go off. I tested its recommended bulky set as well as a Choice Band set and LO mixed set. All i found is that Flareon cannot take any unstabbed EQs. It already has issues dealing with most of The S/A rank Pokemon more then throwing a Toxic at them, but the few things it can touch won't stay in, being Exca, Accelgor, Cryogonal, Sigilyph and the Rotoms. Even then, it cant switch in on these mons more then once besides Cryognal if rocks are up.
The CB set was rubbish as expected, Entei did everything I ever could better, and the LO mixed set was pretty well the same story. Defensively, its a decent Pokemon i'll admit. But it just cant seem to do more then any other defensive Pokemon can do back to it. But having to use both Wish and Protect to heal makes its moveset miss opportunities. Running just Flamethrower/Toxic makes you setup bait for Substituting waters, Lava Plume/Roar lets SLowking, the number 1 RU mon switch into you with no fear at all, and Toxic/Roar doesnt work great together and means a Taunt will make you take more SR damage.
I almost want to call it E-rank its so unable to do things. However, with proper team support it can patch a weakness to the Pokemon i mentioned earlier to a decent extent. But it requires a LOT of babying.
I didn't have the highest hope for Flareon going in, its never had much to go off. I tested its recommended bulky set as well as a Choice Band set and LO mixed set. All i found is that Flareon cannot take any unstabbed EQs. It already has issues dealing with most of The S/A rank Pokemon more then throwing a Toxic at them, but the few things it can touch won't stay in, being Exca, Accelgor, Cryogonal, Sigilyph and the Rotoms. Even then, it cant switch in on these mons more then once besides Cryognal if rocks are up.
The CB set was rubbish as expected, Entei did everything I ever could better, and the LO mixed set was pretty well the same story. Defensively, its a decent Pokemon i'll admit. But it just cant seem to do more then any other defensive Pokemon can do back to it. But having to use both Wish and Protect to heal makes its moveset miss opportunities. Running just Flamethrower/Toxic makes you setup bait for Substituting waters, Lava Plume/Roar lets SLowking, the number 1 RU mon switch into you with no fear at all, and Toxic/Roar doesnt work great together and means a Taunt will make you take more SR damage.
I almost want to call it E-rank its so unable to do things. However, with proper team support it can patch a weakness to the Pokemon i mentioned earlier to a decent extent. But it requires a LOT of babying.
Have you also considered running its spdef variant with heal bell? I can see its use as a specially defensive cleric. With Lava plume for burn (and STAB move i guess), heal bell to heal of all status conditions and Wish+Protect for recovery and to pass wishes to give its teammates safer switch ins. I have seen this set working perfectly fine. It may be outclassed by other clerics but i still think its an option worth trying out.
Its smogon analysis set is sp. def. Heal Bell doesnt help out any of the problems I've found with Flareon itself. Its not a bad option per se, but you are 100% walled by any other fire type, or any of the Magic Guard RU Pokemon who cant be burned. Heal Bell is nice for team support yes, but it may be the only thing Flareon can do once its in before it dies or has been set-up fodder.
You're wrong: doesn't matter if there are Pokemon Flareon can't touch, such as Slowking, Lanturn or Clefable, because this isn't his job. Flareon, thanks to the combination of great special bulk, Flash Fire and great supports moves like Wish or Heal Bell, has an unique niche, making it great answer to Fire and Grass-types and supporting mon for stall teams. The aim of Flareon is stop mons like Rotom-C or Typhlosion and supporting the team with wish, not sweeping teams. Because of this is irrelevant if its hard walled by something. Flareon has 2 real problems: SR is one of those, with SR Flareon has much more difficult of checking some threats like Sceptile, Rotom-C or Magmortar, secondly is Moltres. In BW1 Flareon was able to take Moltres very well, but the introducion in BW2 the Hurricane Moltres, make it unreliable answer to Moltres. Flareon isn't bad Pokemon by any means, but isn't not that great it was in BW1 meta :<
Not sure how i'm "wrong" bringing my experience to a dicsussion thread lol. Additionaly, the set provided does nothing special to "stop" Typhlosion that other Pokemon can't do, Sceptile can destroy it with EQ and i mentioned it is a decent counter to the popular RU Rotoms. How decent Flareon was in BW1 is also not relevant. I've found that while it CAN support a team, it doesnt do it better than most Pokemon and it needs much more team support then it gives in return. Its really not that good.
I dont oppose giving it a low C rank if other people who have used it recently want that, but it just seems like a D Pokemon to me.
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