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Lower Tiers The RU Viability Ranking Thread

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Well the thing with Klinklang is that with its such select movepool, it has to have a LOT of threats eliminated (Steelix, Lanturn [if Klinklang is using Wild Charge > Return], Quagsire, Poliwrath [if Klinklang is using Return > Wild Charge], Magneton, etc). Basically, it needs a lot of team support to get rid of all the checks/counters so it can secure a sweep, but don't get me wrong, Klinklang is very scary in this meta. It matches up pretty well versus Hail, resisting Ice moves, being immune to Toxic (harder to stall n_n), and having Super Effective coverage versus most Hail mons (Steel and Electric). So despite how well it shines in these aspects, I wouldn't disagree with it dropping to Mid-B (although I wouldn't be opposed to keeping it Top-B either).
 
I think for how Klinklang deals with Hail alone, it needs to remain Top B. If (and when) Hail is neutered or outright removed, perhaps then Klinklang will deserve to fall, but for now it should stay put.
 
I agree with keeping Klinklang in Top B. I use Klinklang, and it is amazing. Sub+Shift Gear can wreck shit, and it works as a fantastic late game cleaner, pulverizing weakened teams with its Speed and Gear Grind+Return. With hazard support and Steels out, Klinklang has no trouble sweeping. Because of Sub and Shift Gear, Klinklang can easily take advantage of Uxie by Subbing so it can't T-Wave, and setting up to wreck shit. Klinklang is, alongside Cinccino, a great weapon against hail teams, breaking Substitutes and Focus Sashes with its Gear Grind, while it resists Blizzards. Mesprit+Klinklang is a great boosting duo, with their amazing synergy. I agree to keep it in Top B.

I also agree with the claims Dcae and Swamp-Rocket are making about Ditto. There has never, ever been an instance where I've ever considered to use Ditto on one of my teams. While it may revenge things like Shell Smash Omastar, it is either all or nothing for Ditto, and against most RU teams, Ditto is often nothing, because it cannot revenge kill anything. Ditto is extremely niche and should drop to D.

Also please move Sandslash back down to Mid or Low D. It has a lot of noticeable flaws that make it a lot more of a hassle than it's worth a lot of the time. Sandslash can very rarely get the chance to spin, because it gets cockblocked by pretty much every spinblocker except Spiritomb, and Sandslash's poor Speed and awful defensive typing mean that even if Sandslash can beat the spinblocker, it will be too weak to spin, and things like Sceptile and Lilligant can take advantage of it pretty easily while it gets worn down by the very hazards it should be removing. It needs Pursuit support to be able to pull off the spin, and that's bad when you compare it to Kabutops and Cryogonal, who don't even need Pursuit support to spin. A spinner must first and foremost be able to remove entry hazards on its own; Sandslash cannot do that, and thus it can't help things like Scyther and Moltres who need that spin. Sandslash's typing also leaves it prone to things like Slowking, and unlike others, it doesn't really have many redeeming qualities. Awful Pokemon, please move it back down, kthnx.
 
Alright, making a small, requested, update :). Not going to move Klinklang for now because of the support given to it unless there's a huge opposition later, also, Sandslash is still up for discussion despite its recent tier change, and i've considered moving it back down. Anyway, heres the update i made, nothing major...

Updates said:
Moved Ditto down from low C rank ----> top D rank
Click to expand...

I'd also like to bring up moving Cinccino down from low A rank to top B rank. This might sound a little strange at first, but tbh i haven't really liked Cinccino in the current metagame as of late (probably one of the most overrated on the usage stats tbh :/). Those multi hit moves are pretty cool for sub and sash breaking and Cincy's coverage between Tail Slap, Bullet Seed, and Rock Blast is pretty good, but she has some flaws that i think could justify a move down to top B rank. Most notably, Cinccino is very, very frail, and has no real resistances to speak of, meaning pretty much any decently powerful attack will be 2HKOing her at worst from my experience. Of course you could say this about the other Normal-types in A rank such as Tauros and Zangoose (although Tauros actually has decent physical bulk, and Zangoose has a ridiculous amount of raw power to make up for it that both Cincy and Tauros lack) but unlike them, Cinccino actually has a huge amount of trouble with Steel-types such as Steelix, Klinklang, and Escavalier because of a hole in her coverage, who can take any of her attacks and either force her out, trap her, or KO her in return. Meanwhile Tauros and Zangoose could simply barge past those Steel-types with Sheer Force Fire Blast and Toxic Boost Close Combat, respectively. It gets even worse against Ferroseed, as Iron Barbs damage from a misplaced Tail Slap will rack up easily on Cinccino with Ferroseed on the field. Of course Cinccino isn't a terrible Pokemon, but i really don't think low A fits it atm (although maybe thats just me).
 
No Cinccino deserves to stay in A 100%. You pretty much covered a llot, the multi-hit moves are good for breaking sash, sub or even sturdy but you didn't mention other things that would make it stay. Yes, Cinccino is pretty predictable, however Cinccino does have a very fast U-turn that can make it an essential part of VolTurn teams, also being capable of removing Kabutops or Sandslash with bullet seed and Cryogonal with... I suppose bullet seed too (ik r), pokemon that VolTurn teams loathe. Cinccino is amazing on hyper-offense, providing great speed and coverage and once again being a great pokemon to get rid of spinners. I agree that he is frail, but if the opponent has a pokemon that can easily switch in and you can tell that, just click U-turn to grab some fast momentum. Furthermore, you said that Cinccino is frail and so should be moved down, but Zangoose is even frailer and is far more susceptible from KOs that Cinccino due to his inability to run scarf and fairly lackluster 90 base speed. Furthermore with the bulk that Zangoose lakcs and having toxic whittling away at his health quickly, and if there is no toxic hurting it continuously then you have to try and set swords dance. I say A is simply too high for Zangoose and so I make these claims:
Zangoose Low A --> Top B
Cinccino stays Low A.
 
I disagree entirely, Celever, Cinccino is a vastly overrated Pokemon. Oh, and Zangoose's base 90 speed is definitely not lackluster, infact it's pretty good by RU standards. Also, it can also kinda get away with being frail because it's a lot stronger than Cinccino (For reference, it's about as strong as scarf Medicham after a Toxic Boost !_!). It's also really easy to stop Cinccino with stuff like bulky Steel and Ghost types, while Zangoose has Close Combat and Night Slash to handle those threats (bar Spiritomb, who's neutral to Night Slash). Another issue with Cinccino is how easy it is to wear down (although this is true with Zangoose too, because Toxic Orb) and how it lets in so many dangerous threats in for free, forcing it to switch (namely Steel and Ghost types previously mentioned). Cinccino may be a speed monster, but it can also be revenged by priority (which is extremely abundant in the tier!). Zangoose can actually kinda counteract that with its own priority in Quick Attack (which is stronger than Kabutops Aqua Jet, so its not exactly weak =p) Those are pretty much my thoughts, and I'll have to say:
Keep Zangoose in Low-A
Cinccino Low A -> Top B
 
I'm honestly really torn on Cinccino, though I can definitely see where the arguments to drop it are coming from, since it's fairly predictable and such, but I can see how it should stay in Low A because its ability to beat Smeargle and Snover as well as SubProtect mons is a super valuable niche, while Cinccino can still outspeed and hit a lot of the meta, and it also does well against other spikers such as Accelgor, Scolipede, and Crustle. It still is a great mon and has great niches to have, so I don't agree really, but I don't disagree either.

Zangoose should definitely stay where it is though. It hits like a fucking nuke, and Facade makes Zangoose a great Pokemon to sweep down slower teams. It also has nice Dark+Fighting coverage to hit anything that resists Normal, which allows it to do well. Only real problem is that it's Speed is meh, but for reasons stated before it should remain in Low A.

I remain firm that Sandslash should drop back down to Mid D, I've explained it before, but Sandslash definitely isn't a Pokemon that belongs in C.
 
Yeah, Cinccino just isn't as good in this metagame as it was in Nidoqueen RU, simply because everything is much bulkier and stuff like Aggron, Escavalier, Steelix, etc, have become so much better now and put a hard stop to Cinccino most of the time. Cinccino is still very cool for breaking sashes and Substitutes, but honestly, most of the time right now, I feel I would rather use Tauros over it if I wanted to use it as a wallbreaker with CB or LO, and I would rather use a different scarfer altogether like Manectric or Emboar if I wanted a revenge killer, simply because those guys are better at revenge killing than Cinccino is atm (unless I was hideously weak to hazards and needed something to stop hazards from going up as well I guess). It's definitely still pretty good, but not good enough for Low A right now.
 
You know, I actually think both Zangoose and Cinccino should be dropped to Top B. Both of them are insanely frail Pokemon with no resistances that find it rather difficult to switch in, which is an issue that was already touched upon. However, both of them also have individual issues.

As Molk mentioned, Cinccino has pretty big problems with Steel-types and to an extent Ghost-types and really struggles to do anything until late game. Sure, it can grab momentum in the beginning with U-turn and stuff, but it invites a free switch in for many dangerous Pokemon such as Aggron or Escavalier if it decides to use something that is not U-turn. It doesn't have the highest attack stat around and although its pretty fast most Pokemon holding a Choice Scarf are using Sceptile as a benchmark and outspeed it anyway. The worst part is that all its sets suffer a bit from being one-dimensional - you know what's coming because all of them run the same set just with a different item. Its a cool late game sweeper but you got other late game sweepers out there too - te metagame is jut a lot bulkier nowadays.

You know how Zangoose is hard to switch in? After you struggle to do that you need another free turn if you sent it in on the revenge kill to get the Toxic Orb's activation because otherwise its not doing much... and then the timer begins. Zangoose, as incredible of a wallbreaker as it is, doesn't last very long at all, and isn't the fastest thing around either (90 base speed is good but not, like, incredible), making it somewhat prone to being revenge killed (although Quick Attack helps quite a bit). Zangoose is one of those Pokemon that's only going to come and wreck stuff at one moment and if you can't manage to switch it in Zangoose is not going to help out much. Struggling against Spritiomb is also a problem because that means it can Sucker Punch or Pursuit for bad results. Sure, it hits like a nuke, but it is one heck of a fragile nuke if I do say so myself because its only going to last for a few turns thanks to Toxic Orb recoil, Close Combat drops resulting in more and more OHKOing it, etc.. Neither of them are bad by any means, but they can't get free turns very easily.

I don't really feel like making another long post about Sandslash because I would just be reiterating what I already said... I think that it should stay Low C but I sorta understand if it drops to D. However, Top D is the lowest I would take because if you look at some of the Pokemon in Mid D there are explicit Pokemon that you can say "does an identical thing except better (such as Gorebyss or Dusknoir)" or "gets heavy competition for a niche role, outclassed at everything else (Golem, etc.)" You can't really say Kabutops or Cryogonal straight up outclasses Sandslash because they have a lot of obvious differences, namely the ones that I explained in my post.
 
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Hi, I was talking to some users today about Scolipede and we kinda thought that it possibly didn't belong in Top-B. Anyways, I think Scolipede really isn't really worthy of that spot because it's kinda outclassed in some of its roles. For example, there are better suicide spikers in the tier, such as Accelgor which has more utility with Final Gambit and a much better Speed stat (although Scolipede is decently fast too, I'll get to this later) and Smeargle, who has the ability set up all 3 forms of hazards and has literally an infinite amount of utility moves, such as Spore to immediately cripple an opponent or Magic Coat to reflect hazards and whatnot. More frail Spikers (in particular Toxic Spikes) are kinda lame because you die and can't get those hazards back like you can with bulkier Toxic Spikers like Qwilfish, Roselia, and even Garbodor which can actually survive lol. Those aforementioned Toxic Spikes also get some form of recover, whether its Pain Split or Sythesis (or even Rest for Natural Cure Roselia). Scolipede doesn't get recovery, although it wouldn't really be able to use it. Maybe Mid-B? Maybe keep in Top-B? Not completely sure honestly sorry this post is kinda jumbled and stuff

adding a bit more later =o

edit: sorry if this looks like im super bashing, im definitely not trying to b/c scoli is manly
 
Kenny said:
Hi, I was talking to some users today about Scolipede and we kinda thought that it possibly didn't belong in Top-B. Anyways, I think Scolipede really isn't really worthy of that spot because it's kinda outclassed in some of its roles. For example, there are better suicide spikers in the tier, such as Accelgor which has more utility with Final Gambit and a much better Speed stat (although Scolipede is decently fast too, I'll get to this later) and Smeargle, who has the ability set up all 3 forms of hazards and has literally an infinite amount of utility moves, such as Spore to immediately cripple an opponent or Magic Coat to reflect hazards and whatnot. More frail Spikers (in particular Toxic Spikes) are kinda lame because you die and can't get those hazards back like you can with bulkier Toxic Spikers like Qwilfish, Roselia, and even Garbodor which can actually survive lol. Those aforementioned Toxic Spikes also get some form of recover, whether its Pain Split or Sythesis (or even Rest for Natural Cure Roselia). Scolipede doesn't get recovery, although it wouldn't really be able to use it. Maybe Mid-B? Maybe keep in Top-B? Not completely sure honestly sorry this post is kinda jumbled and stuff

adding a bit more later =o

edit: sorry if this looks like im super bashing, im definitely not trying to b/c scoli is manly
Click to expand...

Hmm, speaking as a big time Scolipede enthusiast (seriously, I hype this thing up in the RU and UU forum and on the ladder), I'm not so sure on this one. While Scolipede does face some competition, he has a number of pretty valuable traits, such as the better Speed than Smeargle, which means it gets those Spikes up faster than Smeargle does, and has actual offensive presence so Scolipede can also lay some initial hurt on the opponent. Also, it hits harder than Accelgor despite its lower offensive stat mostly by virtue of the significantly higher BP of Megahorn, which deals more damage to Mesprit/Uxie, and Toxic Spikes also is a great advantage, as that hazard is simply astoundingly good in this metagame; Scolipede does an admirable job at setting up Spikes+T-Spikes for fast offense. Scolipede is honestly more of an offensive Spiker so it can do more hurt as opposed to Roselia and Qwilfish (I'm not saying that Rose and Qwil are bad, just different in how the perform from Scoli), and is a fast spiker. We also have some pretty good spinblockers in Spiritomb, Rotom-N, Golurk, and Misdreavus, and they're all pretty good mons in general, so that's not too big of a deal. Scolipede also has SD, and it does a great job at sweeping teams with its speed and coverage; SubSalac is also fantastic (for a team that makes effective use of this, take a look at my "Giant Manly Centipede Attack" RMT), and does well. That said, it does face some competition from Accelgor and Durant, so Scolipede may have some trouble finding a spot on some teams. That said, Scolipede is still pretty damn solid, and I think it should stay in Top B, though I'm not opposed to moving it down.

And yeah, after some thought I'm honestly leaning towards agreeing to move Cinccino down, the above posts explained it so I don't need to reiterate. Still a great mon, but not as great as in Stage 15.
 
Hmmmmmm yeah i'd agree with moving Scolipede down from top B rank to mid B rank. I don't have too much experience with Scolipede myself, but from playing against it and viewing its flaws i do feel like those flaws keep it out of top B rank: most notably its poor special bulk, slightly underwhelming Attack stat, competition with other Pokemon, and its kinda awkward Speed tier. That awkward Speed tier is especially annoying at times, given Scolipede is fast enough to outpace Pokemon like Durant, but misses out on being able to outpace and KO Pokemon such as Cinccino and Sceptile by a few points, leaving it outsped and KO'd before it could do anything to them :/. As for the competition with other Pokemon, i agree that Scolipede does have some perks over Accelgor, Smeargle, Omastar, Durant and the like, but i still feel like most of the time i'd use the other suicide spikers/fast bug-types in the tier before Scoli because of their exceptionally good qualities, such as Final Gambit, Spore, Absolutely amazing speed, hustle, superpower, more bulk etc. Also, as mentioned before, Scolipede's average base 90 Attack stat holds it back a little bit in my opinion, especially because things like unstabbed Rock Slide and Earthquake aren't exactly the strongest things in the world. Whenever i've used Scolipede i found it missing out on KOs i really wish it could've scored. Of course, i don't think Scolipede is an outright bad Pokemon by any means, so i don't think it should like go all the way down to C or D rank or anything. Something like mid or low B rank would be fine.

might comment on zangoose later
 
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The only problem I have with Scolipede is that it's very frail, so it's quite vulnerable when setting up. It has to choose whether to attack or setup, as it doesn't really have the longevity to do both. I'd probably rather use Scolipede for attacking than Spiking. Furthermore, Scolipede has pretty limited coverage and it's sort of weak, though I might be a bit biased since I tend to run defensive teams and Scolipede is powerless vs them. In addition to what Molk said, I think that Mid B Rank is suited for Scolipede.
 
Cinccino: My thoughts have already been covered on this. I do back it dropping to Top B due to reasons already mentioned multiple times.

Scolipede: Molk and DC really highlighted the issue with Scolipede. Sure, it's a good offensive Spiker. Yes, it's a pretty neat physical sweeper with its Speed and powerful physical Bug STAB. However, it simply can't do both. It lacks the bulk and defensive typing to do both effectively which hampers on flexibility in play. It's still good for sure, but I think Mid B suits it a little better than Top B as it usually has to pick between setting up hazards and going on the offensive.

Zangoose: While it is pretty difficult to get in, I've actually found it to be quite effective for me. This may be due to the fact I have a mini-VotTurn core on the team I use it with (by mini, I mean 1 U-turn user and 1 Volt Switch user) which lets me activate its Toxic Orb a bit more easily. Its coverage lets it do a lot of work since it hits the majority of the tier for neutral damage at worst and only struggles with extremely bulky Ghost- and Steel-types. As long as you have something to wear them down (Mesprit works wonders here since it can also pack U-turn) then Zangoose can easily clean up late with its coverage and Quick Attack taking care of any faster threats that might remain. I've always sort of viewed it as a slower Swellow with more coverage and raw power to clean up with since it won't hang around long. I'd like it to stay in Low A imo.
 
Moxie is one hell of an ability which was only given to a select number of Pokémon. Most of those Pokémon have moved to bigger and harder tiers while only two remain. Pinsir and the rare and forgotten Mightyena.

Unlike other sweepers, Mightyena has access to STAB priortity in the form of sucker punch as well as the elemental fang moves. This allows him to do fairly well in a tier littered with powerful ghost and psychic types such as Uxie, Sloking, Mespirit and Golurk. Since sucker punch is a tad unreliable, a moxiescarf set isn't suitable. A Dread Plate can be considered two power up his STAB even more.

The most successful set that I have used on Mightyena:

Mightyena
4 Hp/ 252 Att/ 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
Dread Plate

Sucker Punch
Fire Fang
Ice Fang
Crunch

While it has potential, Mightyena is not without its flaws. RU possesses a large amount of fighting types such as Politwrath and Hitmonlee that have enough bulk to counter Mightyena before it gets too far in his sweep. Absol also outclasses Mightyena with more attack power and access to Pursuit.

I am not suggesting Mightyena to be S Rank, I am not even asking it to be C Ranked, I am asking you to see that it is clearly RU viable. I have put Mightyena to use on one of my OU teams which is really doing well in.
 
And why, and I ask why would you use Mightyena over Absol? Yes, Moxie, But Absol is far more poerful anyway and Mightyena is frail enough so that he won't be getting too many boosts anyway. Yes, elemental Fangs, Absol has Fire Blast and Ice Fang is redundant. AND Absol uses Pursuit, and excellent move in this tier. AND Absol has Super Luck so he crits more often.
 
Also note that the only team that has used Mightyena was not a serious team. It is completely outclassed by Absol anyways who has more immediate power and proper coverage in Superpower, which hits Steels harder than Fire Fang and lolRock Smash, despite the lack of Moxie, not to mention Absol has SD.
 
Alright, i guess its time to make some updates!
Updates said:
Cinccino down from low A rank ---> top B rank
Scolipede down from top B rank ---> mid B rank
Klinklang down from top B rank ---> mid B rank
Click to expand...

All the other changes that haven't been made are still up for discussion :).

i'll probably add a proposal to this post as well if i can remember
 
I thought we agreed Klinklang was staying in top B?

Molk EDIT: Look at dcae's post
 
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I'm going to make a small list of changes that should be implemented (at least in my opinion).
(I apoligize if anything I state is confusing).
Crawdaunt--> Low B-Rank: The best offensive DD user in the tier. While it is very slow, most of the foes that try revenge kill it get OHKOed by Crunch / Waterfall on the switch. It requires some support, but is very decent overall.
Dusknoir--> Top D-Rank: Actually a pretty good spinblocker. It only has a small chance of getting 2HKOed by Kabutop's Stone Edge (assuming No SR or SD boost) and comforably beats Cryogonal. Its not amazing, but its not as bad as Ninjask.
Butterfree--> Mid D-Rank: Why would I ever want to use a slow, frail SR weak pokemon who hits like a sissy without any boost? 9 times out of 10, lilligant is the better QD sweeper thanks to its better bulk and lack of SR weakness.
Rotom-N--> Mid A-Rank: Amazing typing, allowing him to check several threats in the RU metagame. Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt get amazing coverage in RU, only being resisted by 3 foes (and all of them take a large amount of damage from HP Fire). It isn't very Bulky, but its unique typing gives it a solid place in mid A-Rank imo
Ferroseed--> Top B-Rank: Ferroseed is a very useful pokemon in the current meta. Its unique typing allows it to check no-HP Fire Lilligant, Druddigon lacking Fire punch, Rotom-N and several other threats. It also gets some amazing support moves like Thunder wave and Spikes. Its not the best pokemon in RU, but its still pretty amazing.
 
Macgargo2's Changes said:
Crawdaunt--> Low B-Rank: The best offensive DD user in the tier. While it is very slow, most of the foes that try revenge kill it get OHKOed by Crunch / Waterfall on the switch. It requires some support, but is very decent overall.
Dusknoir--> Top D-Rank: Actually a pretty good spinblocker. It only has a small chance of getting 2HKOed by Kabutop's Stone Edge (assuming No SR or SD boost) and comforably beats Cryogonal. Its not amazing, but its not as bad as Ninjask.
Butterfree--> Mid D-Rank: Why would I ever want to use a slow, frail SR weak pokemon who hits like a sissy without any boost? 9 times out of 10, lilligant is the better QD sweeper thanks to its better bulk and lack of SR weakness.
Rotom-N--> Mid A-Rank: Amazing typing, allowing him to check several threats in the RU metagame. Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt get amazing coverage in RU, only being resisted by 3 foes (and all of them take a large amount of damage from HP Fire). It isn't very Bulky, but its unique typing gives it a solid place in mid A-Rank imo
Ferroseed--> Top B-Rank: Ferroseed is a very useful pokemon in the current meta. Its unique typing allows it to check no-HP Fire Lilligant, Druddigon lacking Fire punch, Rotom-N and several other threats. It also gets some amazing support moves like Thunder wave and Spikes. Its not the best pokemon in RU, but its still pretty amazing.
Click to expand...

Crawdaunt I can agree with, not for your reasoning since Fraxure, Feraligatr, Altaria AND Shelgon are better at using DD than Crawdaunt, and pokemon are "revenging on the switch"? Do you know what revenging is? The fact is is that Crawdaunt has amazing power, and is fairly slow and frail. I would say he hits like a fucking nuke, which is what people were saying about Zangoose and why he should stay in Top A whereas Crawdaunt, who is slower but bulkier, doesn't have consistent damage chipping at him (I say consistent but it actually increases over time) and has a way to boost his lackluster speed is down in Top C? I would say Crawdaunt belongs in Top B at the very least using your Zangoose logic, and if not then Crawdaunt --> Mid B.

Dusknoir I can't agree with. He is bulky. He can use subpu- oh wait no. He has priori- oh wait so does Spiritomb... Dusknoir is not a /bad/ pokemon he is just otuclassed in absolutely everything you would ever want it to do ever. Dusknoir stays in Mid D, arguably Mid D --> Low D. Also Ninjask is Mid D?
I want to propose Ninjask Mid D --> Top D, one of the best supporters in the tier and capable of pairing up with all physical cleaners such as Aggron and Bouffalant (I tried a bouffalant+ninjask cleaner set and it was fabulous, I didn't even use SD on it and it worked). As one of the best supporters and baton passers in the tier I would dare say he belongs in Low C but for now Top D is fine.

Butterfree going to Mid D? Let me get this straight, you want to move Butterfree BELOW or even EQUAL to Dusknoir? That is absolutely hilarious - HILARIOUS. First of all how the heck is Butterfree out-classed by Lilligant? Butterfree is not out-classed in any way... The problems with Butterfree is its frailty so it can be difficult to set it up, does that make it as bad as Dusknoir who is literally dead-weight all the time? No. Just no. Butterfree deserves Mid or Top C rank, so I am actually going in the completely opposite direction to you and say Butterfree for Mid/Top C Rank.

This may seem liek I am disagreeing with you for the sake of it but Rotom-N (let's jut call him Rotom) is simply not good enough for Mid A. He has two viable sets, defensive subsplit and all out offense. This makes him awfully predictable once you see it use one move. He is not powerful enough to plow through teams like an offensive scarfer should and can't even manage a revenge much of the time. The fact that you will be locked into a type with an immunity if you pick a STAB attack frightens me from using it since it would require a whole lot of switching and prediction, or support. In terms of his better set, and ironically the one you did not mention, SubSplit, it is an excellent set. However once again you are either having your only offensive move immune to Normal or Ground types, two very common types in RU. These downfalls mean Rotom-N stays in low A.

I agree with Ferroseed though, but I am tired of making this post so I will just say Ferroseed ---> Top B
 
Ok, time to cover stuff.

Crawdaunt: I wouldn't say he's the best DD user in the tier when there's Feragligatr, Fraxure, and Altaria around, but Top C does seem a little too low when Poliwrath and Ferroseed are about the only defensive Pokemon in the tier that can take its STAB combination (which is further powered by Adaptability) The competition with Feraligatr in particular kinda hurts, but I could see Low B being plausible due to its great STAB combination and power. Frailty and general lack in bulk are the big things that hold it back, though it can be quite effective.

Dusknoir: No. Just... no. Sure, it can beat Cryogonal, but so can Spiritomb. Also, the argument about Tops being unboosted is p. much invalid since it almost always runs SD+Lum Berry these days. At least Tomb can punish this with Foul Play. At the very least, it should stay in Mid D.

Butterfree: As SilentVerse made me aware of this, Butterfree has Tinted Lens to set itself apart from Lilligant, thus making it harder to wall since a single resistance to a STAB move isn't good enough. Sure, it has a massive SR weakness and is quite frail, but once it does get set up, it is more difficult to wall unless you have a 4x resistance or two. I don't think it should move up because of these flaws, but it certainly shouldn't move down imo.

Rotom: I'm actually a little on the fence about this one. Its Subsplit set allows it to break stall to a decent extent and it has a very good STAB combination that only Steelix and Ferroseed can wall (off the top of my head. There might be more) It's also p. much the best offensive spinblocker as it doesn't sacrifice offensive momentum to prevent a spin. While it can't deal with Cryogonal head on, it can use Volt Switch to get away from it or Will-O-Wisp to make it more difficult for Cryo to spin multiple times. It's even immune to Ground- and Fighting-type moves which allows it to serve as an emergency check to the likes of Gallade, Rhydon, and Golurk should it come to that. Will probably edit this later with a final decision on Rotom.

Ninjask: Really don't have much of any experience with this thing. I will say that the ubiquity of Hail, multi-hit moves, and priority users makes it significantly tougher to use imo. Guess I'll playtest it some even though I've always been horrible with trying to use Baton Pass for boosts rather than just dry passing.
 
Celever said:
I thought we agreed Klinklang was staying in top B?

Molk EDIT: Look at dcae's post
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Wow I got REALLY confused with that Molk stop editing my posts :mad:
But even so the majority want Klinklang in top B, actually it was only you and Dcae who didn't whereas everyone else did so this being the democratic process it is Klinklang should still be Top B >:(
 
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