The Uber Metagame: a Fun "Change of Pace"

[Matthew]

What drawback is there to Wobbuffet?

It can't switch in the heavy hitting Uber metagame without risking a 2HKO or perhaps a stat up, which then becomes something that Wobbuffet needs to worry about. So, using Wobbuffet limits the number of switch ins you can do. Though it can be said he opens up a lot of switch ins as well.

EDIT:

Also I love the new metagame, new ideas are being tried. The tier which I love is finally evolving, which is something we all should be happy about.

 

[never_again]

Wobbuffet is actually not as simple as you think, antonio. I played a bit of Wobbs and I tell you the whole time it's there it's a prediction war. It's not exactly enjoyable (especially since I hate Wobb after Theorymon's supersecret Wobb owned me in PBR Randoms lol, back before I never even knew him), and it severely restricts your option, but it's not that bad. While Wobb is amazingly sturdy (it survived a +2 Surf from my Kyogre...), it's not death, just the most annoying Pokemon in the game. I noticed that people like to Encore first on things like Groudon. Throw an Earthquake. It won't 2HKO Wobb, but it will weaken it, and two shots should put it in critical health.

Prediction wars?
If it comes in on something like Mewtwo its probably gonna Mirror Coat, then if it fails they Encore because they cant outplay you.

If it comes in on something like Groudon or Rayquaza that cant KO them, or even 2HKO with leftovers, (like it can survive +2 Adamant Dragon Claw) then it will most likely Encore

If it comes in on something like Lugia, it Encores. What kind of prediction war is that?

Oh and if it comes in vs Scarf Dialga, then...

And thats the other thing, it SHOULDNT be able to survive stuff like +2 Surf and +2 DClaw. If it had Wynaut's HP Stat, things would be just fine. But it had to be made completely gay and overdefensified if thats a word.

Yea, its not Auto-Death, but it is the most annoying Pokemon to play against because there are some times where I think my opponent is using Wobbuffet just to annoy the hell out of people. To me, it also shows that the user has a lack of knowledge of how to deal with a situation otherwise, if Wobbuffet was banned.

Like, why was it banned from OU? It should be the same in Ubers. Oh wait, there is no ban list.

To Gen: Nothing can switch in to anything w/o risking a 2HKO, its not just Wobb. So irrelevant.

To Twash: OK they're not at zero efficieny w/o wobb but where is Lucario setting up in Ubers w/o wobb?

 

[Pocket]

I remember Mixed Palkia owning Wobbuffet. Wobbuffet Mirror Coats only to have Aqua Tail slap across its face. It then Counters / Encore only to get hit by Surf and then it dies without a sound. xD It's all situational, though.

 

[Veedrock]

It isn't fair to call Arceus "banned." That's like calling 5th generation pokemon banned. They simply don't exist in gameplay yet.

 

[Darkmalice]

I remember Mixed Palkia owning Wobbuffet. Wobbuffet Mirror Coats only to have Aqua Tail slap across its face. It then Counters / Encore only to get hit by Surf and then it dies without a sound. xD It's all situational, though.

I've had this happen a lot, because my opponent thinks Palkia is Scarfed. Aqua Tail and Surf in the Rain has always OHKOed opposing Wobbuffet, netting me a free kill.

Generally, when Wobbuffet doesn't net a kill, it's because he's used the wrong move - Encore or Counter would have led to my Palkia's defeat. The same thing can occur easily against Rayquaza - like Encoring a Ray as it uses LO Outrage (2HKO). Similarly, it may use Encore on a Groudon using Earthquake - he may lack the HP to use Counter against LO variants (a 20 HP / 252 Def Bold Wobbuffet will always be 2HKOed by LO Jolly Earthquake if SR is in play.

Also, sometimes Wobbuffet users forget to ignore the impact of entry Hazards. Now this is getting pretty situational, but I've seen it occur many times thanks to the prevalence of Deoxys-e leads. For example, Timid Scarf Kyogre does 77.57% - 91.44% to 20 HP / 252 SDef Calm Wobbuffet. First off, we assume that Wobbuffet comes in after Kyogre has killed something, because switching Wobbuffet in on Kyogre is just plain stupid, unless of course, you are certain it is not going to fire off Surf** or Water Spout. If only SR is down, Wobbuffet has a 28.21% chance of surviving and retailiating with Mirror Coat. But if Spikes is down as well, Wobbuffet is very likely to be OHKOed.

Finally, if Wobbuffet comes in on a pokemon like Blissey, it will be statused. It needs cleric support to be used to its maximum potential. And then if you want a pokemon to take the Thunderwave/Toxic, you need both a Ground pokemon (Groudon or Garchomp) and a Steel Pokemon (Dialga, Scizor, Jirachi or Forretress being the only "common" ones).


In short, Wobbuffet can be used well, but it's harder in practice than in theory. It's needs cleric support, and Pursuit support should it be using Tickle. He requires prediction, for a wrong move may spell his demise. And he's best used as a revenge killer, for switching in on an attack is even riskier than normal, for he may lack the HP to retailate appropriately. Only switch in on an attack if you are certain you know what he is moving, and you know that attack won't 2HKO - pokemon that you can switch into pretty easily are support Groudon and Scarf users (besides Trick and Rain boosted Surf from Palkia/Kyogre).

(Admittely, being able to switch into Scarf users makes Wobbuffet a great asset, though he ends up near dead in the process - its essentially a kill for kill exchange. You do force a switch after you send in something after your Wobbuffet dies, but that's in return for the switch used up by sending Wobbuffet into the battle in the first place).



**Timid 252 SpA Surf without any boost (Specs or CM) does 49.05% - 57.79% to 20 HP / 252 SDef Wobbuffet. With one turn of Leftovers recovery, that's a 53.98% of a 2HKO.

 

[kd24]

Yea, its not Auto-Death, but it is the most annoying Pokemon to play against because there are some times where I think my opponent is using Wobbuffet just to annoy the hell out of people. To me, it also shows that the user has a lack of knowledge of how to deal with a situation otherwise, if Wobbuffet was banned.

There are so many things wrong with this statement. First of all, no one is out to get you or anybody else with Wobbuffet. People use him for his effectiveness and game changing tactics, not to annoy people. I remember this same thing happening with Double Screen, and just like this, people don't use it just to annoy you, they used it because it was the most effective thing at the time.


If you don't want to lose a Scarf Dialga or Groudon to Wobbuffet, then maybe you should work on your prediction and switching skills? I can tell you for a fact that Theorymon, Reachzero (I think he uses Wobb), me, ect. can all play Ubers very effectively and we chose Wobbuffet because he boosts our teams.


If you are trying to say Wobbuffet should be banned, then you are pretty wrong. Tons of Pokemon stop it, such as MixPalkia or MixDialga, SD Lucario, Taunt Mewtwo, Mew, CB Heracross and Tyranitar, ect. And that list of Pokemon don't even begin to cover it. There are just many viable ways to stop Wobbuffet.


On a different note, I have to say that Shiftry was absolutely kicking ass yesterday especially when I faced a Wobbuffet of my own. The Wobby user forgot that Shiftry was Dark-type, allowing Dark Pulse to 2HKO when he Mirror Coated. Shiftry is the threat to watch out for in DPP, especially if you can eliminate Kyogre early and keep Groudon for later.

 

[Darkmalice]

For mixed sets (or unable to predict attack VS Set-up), Destiny Bond might be an option. And if it could force opponents out of attacking next turn, (if a pair of moves like Palkia's Surf+Aqua Tail would 2hko and you don't know which one will come first, and you foe tries to outsmart you, he is still screwed if you use Destiny Bond the first turn) this way you can use Encore the second turn *the foe will be more cautious to not activate it*, and then you switch to a set-upper the 3rd turn...

Or say you don't know if a Groudon will use Swords Dance, or Earthquake (Earthquake is a 2hko, or 1hko w/ Swords Dance), and the first turn you use "Destiny Bond". You didn't waste a turn Encoring Earthquake (and dying the 2nd turn/switching out for nothing), nor did you use Counter on Swords Dance (and dying the 2nd turn/switching out for nothing). With Destiny Bond, if Groudon uses Swords Dance the first turn, he will definetely die the 2nd turn if he uses EQ, or he will have to try and outstall your Destiny Bond by using Swords Dance again, in which case he will be Encored. If he used Earthquake the first turn, he knows your Destiny Bond will Ko him next turn if he does it again, so if he switches to Swords Dance, you can Encore him.

So Ultimately, on the 2nd turn, he will either kill himself with Earthquake, or get Encored, say into using Swords Dance again, then you can switch and set up. Whereas its a guessing game with relying on Counter OR Encoring at the right time. Making Destiny Bond turn prediction towards your favor, making your opponent have to guess when you will Destiny Bond.

Most Groudon with Swords Dance are Paradance Groudon - they have Thunderwave. Wob will probably end up paralysed, and it will probably end up using Encore on Thunderwave. Few of the pokemon you would send in on Groudon will enjoy being paralysed. Plus you will eventually end up calling your cleric, for Wobbuffet cannot afford to lose a turn to paralysis. Safeguard seems to be the better move against Groudon, for it protects your team from Thunderwave and Toxic.

The beauty of Destiny Bond is that Wob is so slow, it will last the turn after its used, so it will KO your foe the following turn depending on their move, while you can safely use Encore, since it will go after their move.

Wobbuffet being so slow is the reason why Destiny Bond is never used.

Additionally, using Wob. as a lead could be interesting, against, Kyogre leads, you could even just use Wob as bait for Kyogre to use Water Spout/Surf (since it will be Mirror Coated with Thunder/Ice Beam), and switch to a Water Absorber/Parasect/Palkia/Ludicolo, allowing for set up. This is relevant to Wob keeping Kyogre trapped, so you can safely get your switch in to say Ludicolo, and threaten a Swift Swimmer Sweep.

On this topic, only Specs Water Spout will OHKO Wobbuffet. But predicting what item your opponent has is far too risky, so yes, sending in a Water absorber can work. Alas though, Wobbuffet already requires team support to be used to its full potential. Do we really want to use up another team slot just for Kyogre and just to have a Wobbuffet lead.

Additionally, Wobbafett might attract Taunt from Deoxys-S leads (they don't want to get Encored into Stealth Rock and then Tickeled to face a Putsuit Tyranitar (nullifying their Focus Sash with Sandstorm and Koing them on the escape), and if you predict the taunt, you can just switch to a sweeper that doesn't need Set-up.

Sending in a Tyranitar (or Weavile) onto Deoxys-S is very risky. It commonly has Superpower, and it will OHKO. And by the way, the standard Deoxys-S lead wouldn't Taunt against Wobbuffet. It would just set up Spikes.

In other words, play with Wob's other options. Destiny Bond doesn't seem like such a bad idea if it can make predictions alot easier. Tickle I guess could work on stall Pokemon, especially on Lugia/Giratina when combined with Encore, where Pursuit will be Super Effective to really get past their defenses.

I must admit that it is handy against Mixed attackers if it is vital that the Mixed attacker should die. However, Wobbuffet could just predict correctly, and use Counter against Palkia's Aqua Tail, Mirror Coat against Rayquaza's Draco Meteor etc, and kill the Mixed attacker without dying in the process. Destiny Bond isn't a waste of a moveslot, but you will rarely use it, and more often than not, Safeguard is the superior choice, enabling you to switch in a pokemon safely on an Blissey, Groudon, Lugia, Giratina, Dialga or any other pokemon Encored into Thunderwave, Toxic or Will o Wisp.

 

[Matthew]

Do we really want to use up another team slot just for Kyogre and just to have a Wobbuffet lead.

Well I just wanted to say that we do normally add in a pokemon to handle Kyogre.

Also I'm getting pretty sick of Flyingsolo saying that Scarf Dialga is useless. On my BEST team I use a Scarf Dialga, and it isn't used any more as a "come in, use move, switch out" tactic. No! In fact I play it like how I taught myself to play, "set up a pokemon for a sweep." Scarf Dialga is NOT a wall breaker in this current metagame, Scarf Dialga is a sweeper. Don't bring him out early when your opponents Steel-types, Blissey and Wobbuffet are still at high HP, that's like trying to do a Lucario sweep while your opponent has a 100% Gliscor. Start using the Scarf pokemon right, obviously you just can't adapt to a metagame and you say "ban this" because it "ruined" the only tier you're good at.

 

[Jibaku]

I find suicide baits very useful. For some reason, Specs Kyogre is still incredibly common, and I tend to keep my <10% Groudon alive just so the next time that stuff comes out I can send it in and let it die to Ogre's storm, often opening up for Giratina-O (Specs Spout/Surf does lol to Gira in sunlight). I'll be serious here; if your Pokemon is very low in health, and your opponent sends in something to finish it off and you can still switch away into whatever things they do (e.g Bullet Punch Scizor), by all means do so. It will help you tremendously in the long run.

I recommend that people carry two weather changers (preferably Groudon and Kyogre, since they're opposites) on a team unless you're planning to stick to one weather. People are finally starting to abuse the weather a lot here and getting stuck in one weather can lead to your demise. Kingdra, Ludicolo, Parasect, and even Toxicroak and Kabutops enjoy their play in the rain. Heck, even Palkia enjoys the rain more than the sun. On the other hand, Shiftry, Heatran, Jumpluff and Ho-oh really want to abuse the sun. You better have something to take assaults/annoyances from these Pokemon or you'll suffer from their boosted power/speed.

Wobbuffet being so slow is the reason why Destiny Bond is never used.

I got owned by a Custap Wobb over WiFi once :(

Also, Giratina/Giratina-O are getting incredibly common lately. Good and bad. Good because Gira-O is finally getting more use, bad because I don't like fighting them. Especially Gira-A because CM Gira-A just -doesn't- die. Forretress is still useful, but now I can't Spin stuff anymore, and I've seen people use Deoxys-S/Giratina (either forme) to block off the Spin.

Shadow Ball on Giratina-O has become more valuable than it has been before. The main reason is Wobbuffet, who dies from unboosted Shadow Ball starting at around 60% (min). Thunder is still a good option, knocking Kyogre and Scizor out. Especially Kyogre as it dropped HP in favor of Speed, and CMed Thunder OHKOes 4/0 Kyogre after Stealth Rock damage. The amount of TTars are dying, and Aura Sphere pretty much loses its use IMO, but it's still viable. I use CM/Pulse/Shadow Ball/Sub nowadays, with success as it usually kills off somebody, and since Giratina-O is relatively bulky, he'll survive things with very little HP. Then he becomes a suicide bait later on.

 

[never_again]

Well I just wanted to say that we do normally add in a pokemon to handle Kyogre.

Also I'm getting pretty sick of Flyingsolo saying that Scarf Dialga is useless. On my BEST team I use a Scarf Dialga, and it isn't used any more as a "come in, use move, switch out" tactic. No! In fact I play it like how I taught myself to play, "set up a pokemon for a sweep." Scarf Dialga is NOT a wall breaker in this current metagame, Scarf Dialga is a sweeper. Don't bring him out early when your opponents Steel-types, Blissey and Wobbuffet are still at high HP, that's like trying to do a Lucario sweep while your opponent has a 100% Gliscor. Start using the Scarf pokemon right, obviously you just can't adapt to a metagame and you say "ban this" because it "ruined" the only tier you're good at.

lol the only tier that Im good at? Im not the one spending hours figuring out what to do to make stuff like Poliwrath fit into Ubers.

I dont even play Ubers anymore, at least not to my previous degrees. I would say Im fairly decent at OU and about the same in UU, its just that I dont have lots of experience in UU. Thats all it is, really. Experience.

Scarf Dialga is an revenge killer above all else. Seriously, what kind of sweeper likes to be locked into one move?

Or have Draco Meteor as one of their moves?

If you wanted a fast Special Sweeper, you would go to Mewtwo/Darkrai, whatever sweeps you happened to pull off with Scarf Dialga is just a byproduct of ur opponent being bad and that its faster than most other things.

 

[umbarsc]

Back when I used Scarf Dialga, though I originally intended it to be used as a revenge-killer (particularly to Swords Dance Rayquaza), I found that more than half of my wins came from it cleaning up late-game with Dragon Pulse. I'm agreeing with Gen Empoleon here.

Although I'm curious how well it works as a late-game cleaner now that Scarf Garchomp is a lot more popular (at least in my experience).

 

[Matthew]

Back when I used Scarf Dialga, though I originally intended it to be used as a revenge-killer (particularly to Swords Dance Rayquaza), I found that more than half of my wins came from it cleaning up late-game with Dragon Pulse. I'm agreeing with Gen Empoleon here.

Although I'm curious how well it works as a late-game cleaner now that Scarf Garchomp is a lot more popular (at least in my experience).

It still works really well, nothing can really top the coverage it can get.

Also this may be the first nice thing (and something we agree upon) you've said. Flyingsolo, how can you think you're so right when a vast majority of people think you're wrong?

EDIT:

byproduct of ur opponent being bad and that its faster than most other things.

I wouldn't call people like Locopoke and Theorymon poor players. Yes it's fast, which is why it SHOULD be used as a sweeper, jésus.

 

[kd24]

I have seen all sorts of Giratina- lately, they are definitely becoming more common.

One of the coolest ones I saw was the Will-o-Wisp / Dragon Pulse / Calm Mind / Shadow Ball sets which are used to come in on an obvious Trick situation, then burn the switch-in. Shadow Ball and Dragon Pulse are both so good that many people use them both, although Thunder is still there too. This thing makes a great Groudon switch-in, as all it fears is Dragon Claw and some people forget it is immune to Earthquake.

Other popular sets are still Calm Mind / Shadow Ball or Dragon Pulse / Sub / Thunder set which can tear holes through everything and the Rest / Sleep Talk / Outrage / Earthquake set which looks ok to me but eh ... i dunno I prefer the two above more.

 

[Flash_gearz]

I want to start playing Ubers, but can someone tell me a good lead to start with? I'm stuck on that.

 

[Darkmalice]

Flash_gearz, look at the Februrary statistics, and you'll see the usage of Uber leads.

The top two are, by far, Deoxys-S and Darkrai. Deoxys-S is generally the "Lead" set, but a Dual Screen set is also effective. Darkrai is usually Scarf (Dark Pulse, Dark Void, Trick and Focus Blast / Spacial Rend / Ice Beam), but it can also be a Substitute variant holding a Lum Berry (designed to counter other Scarf Darkrai).

In fact, many leads carry a Lum Berry just for Darkrai leads. Supporting Groudon and Dialga are other effective leads used, and they almost always have a Lum Berry. They aim to paralysis the opposing lead and set up their own SR. Just be aware that Darkrai can Trick them, so it's a good idea not to use Thunderwave on the first turn against Darkrai. Substitute Darkrai will obviously be able to block Thunderwave. It's probably best to use SR first against Darkrai - get down an early SR before switching out a now Scarfed Groudon/Dialga.

Kyogre is the 3rd most common lead, either as a Scarf user or a Specs User, but unfortunately, both fail against Scarf Darkrai, and Deoxys-S will manage to have two turns to do what it wants (SR + 1 layer of Spikes, or Double Screen), so I feel Kyogre is a poor lead.

Deoxys-f is a useable lead, dealing massive damage to anything slower than it, and probably setting up SR in the process. But I feel it's another poor lead, for Darkrai and Deoxys-S both beat it (Darkrai puts it to sleep, and Deoxys-S has the speed advantage to attack its 20 base defenses).

Scarf Mewtwo is another lead. It can actually beat most leads with Focus Blast and Shadow Ball achieving perfect type coverage, with Selfdestruct for a quick OHKO against Kyogre, Palkia, Rayquaza and an above 98% chance of a OHKO against opposing Mewtwo and Blissey. Trick can be used against supporting Groudon/Dialga, and for Blissey and Latias. Instead of Trick, one could use Ice Beam for a clean 2HKO on Grodon and for revenge killing Rayquaza. The main problem with Scarf Mewtwo is that it's very predictable, for it's become a well known set. It's essentially a free Wobbuffet or Scizor switch-in; this will more often than not lead to it's early death. Mewtwo, however, could alternatively run a Dual Screen set, which has unpredictability, bulk and Shadow Ball/Selfdestruct at it's disposal, unlike with Deoxys-S.

Finally, Tyranitar is useable as a lead to absolutely cripple Deoxys-S and Mewtwo leads, with Sandstream getting past Focus Sash. Unfortunately, he needs a Lum Berry if he wants to beat Darkrai, and his piss poor speed means he'll have to swap out against Kyogre, Groudon and Dialga leads. One could use his speed as an advantage though; Sandstream would take place after Drought/Drizzle, for Tyranitar is slower than the opposing pokemon. That is if you're willing to waste your first turn swapping out.

 

[Matthew]

If you're using Groudon or Dialga, give them a chesto berry, since if the Darkrai trick a Choice Scarf to you and get a Lum Berry back, then they'll get the paralysis removed (since Groudon and Dialga leads usually run Thunder Wave)

 

[Misa]

Finally, Tyranitar is useable as a lead to absolutely cripple Deoxys-S and Mewtwo leads, with Sandstream getting past Focus Sash. Unfortunately, he needs a Lum Berry if he wants to beat Darkrai, and his piss poor speed means he'll have to swap out against Kyogre, Groudon and Dialga leads. One could use his speed as an advantage though; Sandstream would take place after Drought/Drizzle, for Tyranitar is slower than the opposing pokemon. That is if you're willing to waste your first turn swapping out.

If you think that Groundon, Kyogre, and Dialga are both problems, give your T-tar a Focus Sash, so he will almost always set up Stealth Rock before he dies. Also, Focus Sash can be useful for taking on Darkrai's Focus Blast or a Super-effective move that might OHKO T-tar without it.

Really though, T-tar makes a pretty awesome lead in the uber metagame imo, due to the ability to take on almost all of the common leads in the uber metagame while setting up Stealth Rock in the process.

 

[Itsuki]

Well I started playing yesterday and managed to get to 14 on the Ubers Ladder. I have never looked into this thread or posted here so some of my comments may be already heard of.

Ubers is pretty fun. I used an okay Stall team I guess. Ice Wind over Ice Beam can be an fine option on Lugia imo. Lowering the Speed on switch ins and then Roosting if needed.

I was also surprised to see Lucario. (Take note that I started playing yesterday. I can see why it is used as it rips through many teams. What I found cool though was that Palkia could survive a +4 Attack ExtremeSpeed from Lucario. Also Wobuffet is pretty annoying as some of you have stated.

 

[Darkmalice]

If you think that Groundon, Kyogre, and Dialga are both problems, give your T-tar a Focus Sash, so he will almost always set up Stealth Rock before he dies. Also, Focus Sash can be useful for taking on Darkrai's Focus Blast or a Super-effective move that might OHKO T-tar without it.

Really though, T-tar makes a pretty awesome lead in the uber metagame imo, due to the ability to take on almost all of the common leads in the uber metagame while setting up Stealth Rock in the process.

If I wanted a pokemon to die for the sole purpose of setting up SR, I would use Deoxys-S - it doesn't need a Focus Sash to set up a guaranteed SR. Against Groudon, Kyogre and Dialga, it gets up SR and a layer of Spikes. Should you suggest Tyranitar can always try for the offensive, well, it's hopeless against Groudon, and 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre only has a 20.51% of being OHKOed by max Atk CB Stone Edge. Dialga has a 92.31% of being OHKOed by CB Earthquake. However, CB Tyranitar has no hope against any lead that can outspeed it and OHKO it.

Don't argue that Tyranitar will die to accomplish Sandstorm, for with your opponent's Kyogre and/or Groudon still perfectly alive, they can easily come back into play to remove the Sandstorm that may give Garchomp the game.


By the way, Darkrai would Dark Void Tyranitar. Tyranitar can EV himself to survive Focus Blast, and Tyranitars commonly have SDef investment in Ubers.

 

[DazzlingAddar]

Inspired by this topic and a few of Gen. Empoleon's excellent Uber warstories, I decided to wet my feet a bit earlier today. It was a lot of fun, and I got to use some of my favorite Pokemon that, for obvious reasons, I don't usually get a chance to.

What struck me was how different it was from standard battles- Pokemon longevity in ubers seems greatly increased. I suppose it's because just about every player in ubers, except Deoxys's glass-cannon forme, is capable of taking hits unless we're talking about massively powerful stuff like Draco Meteor or Water Spout. I like this change, as it makes the battles last a bit longer and puts a greater emphasis on keeping your team alive- you've got to really consider who to sacrifice and who to save for later.

 

[thechocolatebunny]

I find ubers more enjoyable than OU simply because in OU hard hitters are much harder to stop, there isnt as a big a strategy, just set up something like DDsalamence and you're gonna get a few kills. In ubers though, everything can hit extremely hard, everything is a hard hitter, so you cant just worry about that SDrayquaza setting up and sweeping your team because than something like Choice Specs dialga can come in and throw out Draco Meteors, you have to be careful of more threats. The one uber that I have rarely seen though is ho-oh. With groudon support it can hit harder than a lot of the so called hard hitters(basically all uber sweepers) and what makes it more deadly is nobody prepares for it like they do for other hard hitters, they lay down rocks and call it done, but with rapid spin support and a way to remove giratina its lethal. Here's a set I've used to amazing success).

Ho-oh @ Pressure
Life Orb
Adamant
EVs:224 hp 252 atk 8 spD 24 spe
-Sacred Fire
-Roost
-Earthquake
-Punishment/return/substitute

This Ho-oh is incredibly bulky and even more deadlier, just make sure it has rapid spin and SR support. SR will turn so many 2hkos into OHKOs and the occasional 3HKO into a 2HKO. A 399 Special Attack Life Orb palkia spacial rend can only muster 40-47% meaning even if rocks are not blown away spacial rend can be stalled with roost(pressure helps too) while EQ manages 48-57% to timid 4 hp/0 def palkia, and most run hasty. In the sun, Sacred Fire deals 51-60% to 252 hp 252 def bold lugia, with SR and the 50% burn rate, it is still a likely 2HKO with reflect and leftovers. Burn and SR guarantees a 2HKO

 

[Matthew]

Ok guys, here is the latest on the Uber tier. We now have a chat on IRC, #ubers. The latest thing we're doing is something called Project Uber. Project Uber is us, the Uber players, testing everything we can get our hands on in the Uber tier. We will be documenting their success and what sets worked. If a pokemon works, we add it to the list of already on going pokemon. If someone wants to retest a pokemon that is ok, but if the pokemon doesn't preform up to standards after the second test we will deem it a "failure." Though I am not the one encharge of this project, as it is all of us; I am the one who is updating the list of sets that work and the ones that do not. The list will be posted here, and possibly several times in this thread. If I am missing some on the list please tell me and I'll update it.

When suggesting a set it would be helpful to list everything about the pokemon, why to use it, what counters the set, and how to get around these counters. Standard format which is:

Pokemon @ Item
nature:
evs:
ability: (if there are two options)
move 1:
move 2:
move 3:
move 4:

Of course the other players will test a set, so don't try to bull shit us.

Here is a list of the pokemon that have been tested and work, please tell me if I made a mistake.
Parasect - Works - Double Status Water Absorber
Lucario - Works - Swords Dance Sweeper
Shiftry - Works - Nasty Plot / Swords Dance Sun Abuse
Ludicolo - Works - Rain Dish Sub Seed
Jumpluff - Works - Sub Seed Sun Abuse
Poliwrath - Failure - Needs no more testing
Heatran - Works - Bulky Tran / Specs Tran
Kabutops - Works - Swords Dance Rain Abuser
Kingdra - Failure - can be retested
Primeape - Works - Choice Scarf revenge killer
Toxicroak - Failure - can be retested
Heracross - Works - Choice Scarf Revenge
Blissey - Works - Uber SpAtk Wall
Tyranitar - Works - Uber Trapper
Scizor - WOrks - Uber Trapper
Metagross - Works - Uber Trapper
Bronzong - Works - Dual Screen
Forretress - Works - Hazzard set up

One more thing I would like to mention, if you are going to take part in this project tell us what pokemon you are going to make Uber Strong, it's good to know so if there is no over lap.

Gen. Empoleon is testing Houndoom
Veedrock is retesting Kingdra
reachzero is testing Weavile
Theorymon is testing Empoleon
Darknessmalice is testing Skarmory

 

[Veedrock]

I would think that Kingdra would have more potential than several of those (Heatran especially). I'll see what I can get out of him.

 

[thechocolatebunny]

Is that only for non-ubers?

 

[Matthew]

Well I guess that it will mostly be filled with Non-Ubers. But you are right that some of the underused Ubers will need to get tested (or as much as they can). Manaphy will need to get some testing. You have used Ho-Oh to success with the Life Orb set, right? Would you say it's Ho-Oh's best set in this metagame?

EDIT:

Something just occured to me, some of these sets require specific EVs, but aren't enough to allow a space in each Analysis. So should we also start collecting all the sets? I would like to know the Kabutops set, Shiftry and if you use Adamant or Jolly on Lucario