-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
The UnderUsed "Metagame"
- Thread starter Stagnant
- Start date
Nobody has said that there exists a BL metagame, or that it should exist one for that matter. Ubers has its own metagame because the number of Pokémon living in it is big enough to support one; and it's still a banlist.
Actually, I would like to see suspect systems (for both OU and UU) that would at least be capable of creating the current Uber tier (or at least most of it) from scratch, and if the current systems already do, I'd like to see the reasoning.
The OU and UU tiers are solely based on usage. The fact that we're even paying attention to the UU metagame is largely irrelevant to the tiering system and is rather surprising as well, considering hardly any other competitive game community sees "low tier metagames" as anything more than a gimmick tournament idea.
The OU and UU tiers are solely based on usage. The fact that we're even paying attention to the UU metagame is largely irrelevant to the tiering system and is rather surprising as well, considering hardly any other competitive game community sees "low tier metagames" as anything more than a gimmick tournament idea.
The UU metagame has always been a product of the tier list, and it really shouldn't be the other way around.
Well, back in RSE there were topics about "usage vs potential/power/stats, typing, movepool or whatever you want to call it" but i never saw any major change in the list until DPPt (because of the physical special split mostly), just usage because you think people will use the most powerful pokemon isn't enough to make a pokemon worth the top tier tiers (lol)
Btw, there are some UU and NU that counter some OUs, as many parody says that's not enough to make them OU or Ubers, then what make a pokemon "strong", and a "strong" pokemon deserve being listed as a top-tier-elite pokemon? why those "anti-metagame" aren't used that much? that doesn't make sense.
And for last for not least, if the list is by usage, and you want to respect that much, there's no point on banning "broken" pokemon because of their power, as many may argue power it's subliminal, even if many COUGHNERDSCOUGH "pokemon expert" test them, like science there's always a chance of mistake.
Riverside said:
You ask the question "if a pokemon has a niche in a certain metagame, why doesn't it belong there", well pretty much any competitive pokemon player should know the answer to that. Case in point, by your logic Quagsire should be an absolute staple in the ubers metagame, it is the best known counter to the number one threat in the game, Specs Kyorgre. But aside from encore, what else can it possibly do? People much prefer Palkia because even though it's not as good a counter as Quagsire, it does a shitload more everywhere else. People don't use niche pokemon just to counter a certain threat because they'd rather execute a strategy to win them the match, and give them a high success rate against all teams. Use a team of Registeel/Moltres/Porygon2 and tell me how you do in OU, together they counter a majority of DPP's top OU threats, so by your logic you should easily win 90 + % of your matches.
I'm sorry, Riverside, but I'm having significant problems understanding your posts.
Sorry, I'm not an english speaker :/
That's a bad example IMO, and I haven't see a specs kyogre in ubers until now (scarf'd are more common)
If a pokemon X counter MANY (not only 1 or 2) pokemon of the metagame of ONE higher tier (Pokemon X is NU and h counter many UUs, or pokemon X is UU and counter many OUs) then that pokemon it's "strong"? and isn't logic that a strong pokemon should be in an higher tier? (unless it's about usage, but Ubers and BL aren't tiers for usage)
Another factor it's the skills of the player.
Anyway, if you set up stealth rocks, then send out Lucario to Porygon 2, set up in the switch you owned those 3 pokemon, they're quite good anyway.
I'm focusing my comments on:
That's a lie.
That's a bad example IMO, and I haven't see a specs kyogre in ubers until now (scarf'd are more common)
If a pokemon X counter MANY (not only 1 or 2) pokemon of the metagame of ONE higher tier (Pokemon X is NU and h counter many UUs, or pokemon X is UU and counter many OUs) then that pokemon it's "strong"? and isn't logic that a strong pokemon should be in an higher tier? (unless it's about usage, but Ubers and BL aren't tiers for usage)
Another factor it's the skills of the player.
Anyway, if you set up stealth rocks, then send out Lucario to Porygon 2, set up in the switch you owned those 3 pokemon, they're quite good anyway.
I'm focusing my comments on:
That's a lie.
Lol Specs Kyogre is the most common set, but thats aside the point.
And I see what you're trying to say, so I'll use a different example, Porygon2. It counters all DDmence, DDGyara, Jolteon and Heatran, so you could say it counters alot of threats. However, as stall teams use it as setup bait, and it provides relatively free (relatively meaning they have to avoid being para'd obviously) switchins to deadly threats such as Lucario, Machamp and Scizor that other pokemon normally wouldn't (except for something like Blissey, but it completely neutralizes many more pokemon then P2 so its position in OU is justified).
Can it function in OU? Sure
Is it OU? No.
And there in lies the difference.
PS - How on earth is that a lie dude?? Tiers ARE based on usage so I have no clue what you mean by that :S
And I see what you're trying to say, so I'll use a different example, Porygon2. It counters all DDmence, DDGyara, Jolteon and Heatran, so you could say it counters alot of threats. However, as stall teams use it as setup bait, and it provides relatively free (relatively meaning they have to avoid being para'd obviously) switchins to deadly threats such as Lucario, Machamp and Scizor that other pokemon normally wouldn't (except for something like Blissey, but it completely neutralizes many more pokemon then P2 so its position in OU is justified).
Can it function in OU? Sure
Is it OU? No.
And there in lies the difference.
PS - How on earth is that a lie dude?? Tiers ARE based on usage so I have no clue what you mean by that :S
=]
Stall non-toxic bliss, non-toxic vaporeon, stall and get stats boost from suicune with Psych up, take neutral hits like nothing...
Don't overrate Bliss.
Blissey, at difference of Porygon2, can't counter much things, just take spcial hits like a monsters and do some status or entry hazards. BUT that's something that most defensive pokemon does.
Dusknoir, Bulky Waters, Bronzong, Cresselia, Celebi, Forry, Skarm, Hippo and the list goes, and goes.
So what's the point if defensive pokemon are set up bait? (not only porygon2, for example Bronzong can't do A SHIT to gyarados other than the unrealiable hypnosis, and even with that if you already have sleep another threat (for example scizor) Bronzong it's useless.
Can [bronzong] function in OU? Sure
Is it OU? [yes].
I mean ban tiers (Ubers and the unnecessary BL) are basd on power, not usage, that's why it's a lie.
If you want to reply something about it, explain things about Garchomp first, a pokemon that went Ubers (an "official" tier) not by "usage" but for "power" AKA """"overcentralizing"""" the metagame (even if it sucks @ ubers), same with wobby back in Adv.
Stall non-toxic bliss, non-toxic vaporeon, stall and get stats boost from suicune with Psych up, take neutral hits like nothing...
Don't overrate Bliss.
Blissey, at difference of Porygon2, can't counter much things, just take spcial hits like a monsters and do some status or entry hazards. BUT that's something that most defensive pokemon does.
Dusknoir, Bulky Waters, Bronzong, Cresselia, Celebi, Forry, Skarm, Hippo and the list goes, and goes.
So what's the point if defensive pokemon are set up bait? (not only porygon2, for example Bronzong can't do A SHIT to gyarados other than the unrealiable hypnosis, and even with that if you already have sleep another threat (for example scizor) Bronzong it's useless.
Can [bronzong] function in OU? Sure
Is it OU? [yes].
I mean ban tiers (Ubers and the unnecessary BL) are basd on power, not usage, that's why it's a lie.
If you want to reply something about it, explain things about Garchomp first, a pokemon that went Ubers (an "official" tier) not by "usage" but for "power" AKA """"overcentralizing"""" the metagame (even if it sucks @ ubers), same with wobby back in Adv.
That doesn't make it a lie. Tiers are still based on usage, and broken Pokémon are banned to diversify the metagame.
You're trying to use the tier list for a purpose that it's not supposed to fulfill at all. The tier list is merely a reflection of the usage stats and banlists, and nothing else. If we declared the BL Pokémon OU, we'd be implying that Raikou is used more than Walrein is, which is a pretty blatant lie. The tier list determines the metagame setup, and not the other way around. Calling Raikou BL still recognizes that it's not allowed in UU without lying about its usage.
You also seem to be preemptively belittling the process that Smogon uses to make tiers, and you've given away a few obvious clues that you don't actually understand the process very well. Garchomp is actually a very good example. The thing is, its performance in Ubers matters not in the slightest. I mean, what is Wynaut doing there, then? The Ubers environment is entirely different from the OU environment, and different things are successful in each. And this is completely ignoring the fact that Garchomp has now been tested extensively in at least two different environments. BL Pokémon are treated in the same way.
Please, if you're going to act like you know what you're talking about and Smogon doesn't, at least get Smogon's positions straight.
You're trying to use the tier list for a purpose that it's not supposed to fulfill at all. The tier list is merely a reflection of the usage stats and banlists, and nothing else. If we declared the BL Pokémon OU, we'd be implying that Raikou is used more than Walrein is, which is a pretty blatant lie. The tier list determines the metagame setup, and not the other way around. Calling Raikou BL still recognizes that it's not allowed in UU without lying about its usage.
You also seem to be preemptively belittling the process that Smogon uses to make tiers, and you've given away a few obvious clues that you don't actually understand the process very well. Garchomp is actually a very good example. The thing is, its performance in Ubers matters not in the slightest. I mean, what is Wynaut doing there, then? The Ubers environment is entirely different from the OU environment, and different things are successful in each. And this is completely ignoring the fact that Garchomp has now been tested extensively in at least two different environments. BL Pokémon are treated in the same way.
Please, if you're going to act like you know what you're talking about and Smogon doesn't, at least get Smogon's positions straight.
Garchomp isn't actually bad in ubers lol.
Plus Flygon, which sort of replaced Garchomp, has actually proven itself a very good pokémon. My jolly CB Flygon's really, really impressed me when I've used it.
Also on a completely unrelated note I'm eating a sun lolly with a picture of Palkia on it. How cool is that? It's a D/P promotional lolly or something. Which for some reason is still being sold 2 years after release. It's actually pretty nice-tasting. And orange-flavoured.
Plus Flygon, which sort of replaced Garchomp, has actually proven itself a very good pokémon. My jolly CB Flygon's really, really impressed me when I've used it.
Also on a completely unrelated note I'm eating a sun lolly with a picture of Palkia on it. How cool is that? It's a D/P promotional lolly or something. Which for some reason is still being sold 2 years after release. It's actually pretty nice-tasting. And orange-flavoured.
Just an update: this is the new plan for the UU metagame, I think it is pretty fair way of deciding things.
First of all, Garchomp has been in the top 10 in Ubers usage for the last 3+ months now, so obviously a lot of people disagree with you on the fact that "it sucks @ ubers". It is one of the fastest Ubers, with STAB on Dragon and Ground moves that are super effective against most of the tier, it has great defenses, it is immune to Thunder Wave from Blissey and Groudon as well as Choiced Thunders from Kyogre and Palkia, and that Swords Dance set is still damn good.....but I digress.
Secondly, "overcentralizing" hasn't been taken seriously here for more than a year. What people perceive as overcentralizing has nothing to do with power, but with usage. If "everyone uses it", that means that its "centralizing", but it says nothing about how strong it actually is. For example, Scizor is the most common pokemon in OU right now but it is also one of the easiest to wall.
Since Ubers is a ban tier for power, and "centralizing" is based on usage, something being "overcentralizing" does not mean it is uber.
Thirdly, Wobbuffet was banned in Advance because if two Wobbuffets with Leftovers were switched into each other, the game would never end and it would have to be a tie. That had nothing to do with power or usage.
Fourthly, Ubers and BL are ban tiers for power. That part of your post is correct.
First of all, Garchomp has been in the top 10 in Ubers usage for the last 3+ months now, so obviously a lot of people disagree with you on the fact that "it sucks @ ubers". It is one of the fastest Ubers, with STAB on Dragon and Ground moves that are super effective against most of the tier, it has great defenses, it is immune to Thunder Wave from Blissey and Groudon as well as Choiced Thunders from Kyogre and Palkia, and that Swords Dance set is still damn good.....but I digress.
Secondly, "overcentralizing" hasn't been taken seriously here for more than a year. What people perceive as overcentralizing has nothing to do with power, but with usage. If "everyone uses it", that means that its "centralizing", but it says nothing about how strong it actually is. For example, Scizor is the most common pokemon in OU right now but it is also one of the easiest to wall.
Since Ubers is a ban tier for power, and "centralizing" is based on usage, something being "overcentralizing" does not mean it is uber.
Thirdly, Wobbuffet was banned in Advance because if two Wobbuffets with Leftovers were switched into each other, the game would never end and it would have to be a tie. That had nothing to do with power or usage.
Fourthly, Ubers and BL are ban tiers for power. That part of your post is correct.
Well, that proves people relies so much in 100 (or less) base speed pokemon, against a team (for example) with pokemon faster than 102 base jolly Garchomp will hardly had time to set up or show itself. Just people isn't prepared to deal with him (as wobby) and because of that it's banned.
Dragon + Ground gives a nice type coverage in ubers, but "A dunsparce with t-wave and bite easily beats latias, clearly Dunsparce is uber."
How a person without the "Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics" can perceive, without being subjective, if somone uses a pokemon so much? I perceive Dragonite should be UU because I haven't seen more than 10 since I play Shoddy battle
Unban, anyone?
My point it's BL works as OU. it would be the same for ubers if it has some requeriments:
-A tier of higher grade than uber
-6 or less pokemon, and so, a very limited, or non-existant, metagame that barely difference from the metagame of higher grade.
Let's say the highest tier it's called super ubers and ubers it's just a BL between OU and Super ubers. Let's also say Latias, Giratina and... Luvdisc is in ubers (not super ubers)
A competitive team from Super ubers can use any super uber plus Latias, Giratina or Luvdisc, But ubers, without a own metagame barely difference from OU, just being able to use Luvdisc, latias, giratina who are banned from OU. That's my point, it's unnecessary just for a few pokemon. It's like instead of banning Chomp you would create a tier called "semi ubers" and put Garchomp alone there, pointless because then Garchomp could be only used in the ubers tiers.
The worst of all IMO is there's not only 1 unnecessary tiers (BL), but 2 (Bl and "Limbo") that work exactly as OU just with different definition, you could just make limbo and BL pokemon usable @ OU until testing finish.
Tried. Didn't work out. Sent the lovable non-fat blob back to Ubers.
Let me just address this post point by point, because not only do you show a blatant lack of understanding of the tier system, it also shows that you don't understand competitive pokemon either. I don't want you to drag this thread any further off track. In case you havent noticed, this is a UU thread....
Please read Smogon's philosophy before reading this post, Riverside. By itself, it answers most of your concerns.
Once again you show that you don't know how the tiering system works. It is banned because an overwhelming majority of high-level players feel that Garchomp (and wobb/dx-s etc) are broken in OU. That is why it was banned, not because "people isn't prepared".
All of this information has been available for a year now, how can you be this ignorant of what our tiering system is? If you are going to oppose the tiering sytem, you might want to make sure you actually know what it entails first.
Again, performance in Ubers has nothing to do with a pokemon's tiering. A pokemon is Uber if it is broken in OU, whether it is good in Ubers or not. I was simply refuting your point that "garchomp sucks @ ubers".
I'm not sure what you're getting at. We have the Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics, so why would we go by anything else when talking about usage? You don't play every match in D/P OU, how could you possibly be expected to know if Dragonite is used enough?
If we unban Wobbuffet in Advance, it creates situation where a tie can be forced. This goes against the nature of competitive pokemon.
In D/P it was voted Uber under the Support characteristic.
BL doesn't work as OU. The fact that you said that it does shows that you don't understand the tier system.
Things that are used enough in standard play are UU. If we only played OU, it would be pretty boring. So, we ban the OUs and are left with a smaller metagame with weaker overall pokemon. In THAT metagame, there are pokemon that break the tier from a competitive standpoint. In the interest of preserving the lower tier, we ban those broken pokemon.
You still think that BL is a metagame. It is not. It is a ban list for UU. BL pokemon are not OU because they aren't used enough. Tiers are based on USAGE.
For the last time, Ubers and BL are not a metagame. They are ban lists. All of your arguments are based off of this faulty assumption.
The Limbo tier is being eliminated by the new UU test process. The BL tier isn't useless, as I just explained. So if "the worst" in your opinion doesn't even exist, stop complaining.
We can't just "make something OU". Something has to be used enough to become OU. OU stands for Over Used, which literally means that they are used a lot. OU is not determined just because we feel like putting random pokemon on a pedestal.
Don't even bother replying to this and dragging the thread off track...I wanted to get constructive criticism on the new UU plan but apparently I should have just stuck to the Policy Review :(
Please read Smogon's philosophy before reading this post, Riverside. By itself, it answers most of your concerns.
Once again you show that you don't know how the tiering system works. It is banned because an overwhelming majority of high-level players feel that Garchomp (and wobb/dx-s etc) are broken in OU. That is why it was banned, not because "people isn't prepared".
All of this information has been available for a year now, how can you be this ignorant of what our tiering system is? If you are going to oppose the tiering sytem, you might want to make sure you actually know what it entails first.
Again, performance in Ubers has nothing to do with a pokemon's tiering. A pokemon is Uber if it is broken in OU, whether it is good in Ubers or not. I was simply refuting your point that "garchomp sucks @ ubers".
I'm not sure what you're getting at. We have the Smogon Shoddy Server Statistics, so why would we go by anything else when talking about usage? You don't play every match in D/P OU, how could you possibly be expected to know if Dragonite is used enough?
If we unban Wobbuffet in Advance, it creates situation where a tie can be forced. This goes against the nature of competitive pokemon.
In D/P it was voted Uber under the Support characteristic.
BL doesn't work as OU. The fact that you said that it does shows that you don't understand the tier system.
Things that are used enough in standard play are UU. If we only played OU, it would be pretty boring. So, we ban the OUs and are left with a smaller metagame with weaker overall pokemon. In THAT metagame, there are pokemon that break the tier from a competitive standpoint. In the interest of preserving the lower tier, we ban those broken pokemon.
You still think that BL is a metagame. It is not. It is a ban list for UU. BL pokemon are not OU because they aren't used enough. Tiers are based on USAGE.
For the last time, Ubers and BL are not a metagame. They are ban lists. All of your arguments are based off of this faulty assumption.
The Limbo tier is being eliminated by the new UU test process. The BL tier isn't useless, as I just explained. So if "the worst" in your opinion doesn't even exist, stop complaining.
We can't just "make something OU". Something has to be used enough to become OU. OU stands for Over Used, which literally means that they are used a lot. OU is not determined just because we feel like putting random pokemon on a pedestal.
Don't even bother replying to this and dragging the thread off track...I wanted to get constructive criticism on the new UU plan but apparently I should have just stuck to the Policy Review :(
I agree, j7r, that the current way we go about condemning pokemon with the BL status is flawed; there are certain pokemon that, despite not entirely meeting any of the characteristics, have a strong case going against their ban status.
The quintessential example is Crobat. It doesn't exactly meet the offensive characteristic; even its 120 BP STAB Brave Bird is easily walled by the common bulky Flying-resists such as Steelix, Registeel, and Regirock; it therefore, doesn't meet the offensive characteristic because it cannot easily sweep the metagame with little or no setup. It doesn't completely fit the bill for the support characteristic either; sure, it has Taunt and U-Turn, both of which are good support moves, but it's not like with the use of either of these moves that Crobat can "make it significantly easier to sweep the metagame" - at least, you can't make that accusation against Crobat without in the same breath condemning Scizor as Uber (speaking of which, I'd like to see a discussion about that. Not that I'm suggesting that Scizor is Uber - but discussion never hurts). Finally, Crobat does not fully meet the Defensive Characteristic. Yes, it has access to Roost and 85 / 80 / 80 defenses are pretty good for an offensive pokemon (better than Starmie's 65 / 80 / 80) in addition to awesome 4x Grass and Fighting resists as well as an immunity to Ground and the move Toxic - but again, Crobat isn't bulky enough to take any sort of strong, non-resisted assault, especially not with its 2x Stealth Rock weakness.
But despite all of this, there is definitely a case for Crobat in BL. So I'm going to agree: common sense pervades the inability to meet the characteristics in cases where it applies.
The quintessential example is Crobat. It doesn't exactly meet the offensive characteristic; even its 120 BP STAB Brave Bird is easily walled by the common bulky Flying-resists such as Steelix, Registeel, and Regirock; it therefore, doesn't meet the offensive characteristic because it cannot easily sweep the metagame with little or no setup. It doesn't completely fit the bill for the support characteristic either; sure, it has Taunt and U-Turn, both of which are good support moves, but it's not like with the use of either of these moves that Crobat can "make it significantly easier to sweep the metagame" - at least, you can't make that accusation against Crobat without in the same breath condemning Scizor as Uber (speaking of which, I'd like to see a discussion about that. Not that I'm suggesting that Scizor is Uber - but discussion never hurts). Finally, Crobat does not fully meet the Defensive Characteristic. Yes, it has access to Roost and 85 / 80 / 80 defenses are pretty good for an offensive pokemon (better than Starmie's 65 / 80 / 80) in addition to awesome 4x Grass and Fighting resists as well as an immunity to Ground and the move Toxic - but again, Crobat isn't bulky enough to take any sort of strong, non-resisted assault, especially not with its 2x Stealth Rock weakness.
But despite all of this, there is definitely a case for Crobat in BL. So I'm going to agree: common sense pervades the inability to meet the characteristics in cases where it applies.
After reading the proposal from the UU thread in Policy Review (which has now degraded to an argument about SEXP) I must say it gets points for eliminating the stupid "suspectless" month that serves no purpose other than to really annoy all of us. That said, are votes going up any time soon so I can get Honchkrow back? :P
Also, on the SEXP issue since that seems to be a major issue: I think that a part of becoming "the standard authority" or whatever you like to call yourselves on the metagame, you must have an impartial system. Keeping a formula "secret" then telling us that you "didn't like our paragraphs" are potentially and most definently subjective respectively.
Without knowing how it works, I cannot make a case for why SEXP should or should not be used in the voting process, but I would LIKE to know how it works, and keeping it a secret does nothing but to instigate rumors and leave room for higher ups to mess with us if they so choose (I'm not saying you are or will, but there is easily potential for abuse).
That said, voting guidelines, timetables, and all the other aspects of the plan get the thumbs up from me.
Also, on the SEXP issue since that seems to be a major issue: I think that a part of becoming "the standard authority" or whatever you like to call yourselves on the metagame, you must have an impartial system. Keeping a formula "secret" then telling us that you "didn't like our paragraphs" are potentially and most definently subjective respectively.
Without knowing how it works, I cannot make a case for why SEXP should or should not be used in the voting process, but I would LIKE to know how it works, and keeping it a secret does nothing but to instigate rumors and leave room for higher ups to mess with us if they so choose (I'm not saying you are or will, but there is easily potential for abuse).
That said, voting guidelines, timetables, and all the other aspects of the plan get the thumbs up from me.
Ho-oh can't do a shit in standard but it's broken I guess. Now that makes sense. Things go up, but can't go down.
I'm here in smogon from about a couple of months I guess. I wish I was when all this shit about tiering and banning was born to say what I wanted without thinking im wasting time. But now I can't even create a topic about standard metagame, for example Stealth rocks, because it was discussed, but not by me and not by many people here.
It's a comparison between having no objective idea about how many people uses certain pokemon and how strong it's that pokemon (also without a clue, because it doesn't exist) The first one may be objective, but the second one it's 100% subjective, even if a group of people agree in something.
Wobby is broken since the list was created? what I mean is, can wobby survives in the actual metagame, with all the changes, new moveset and stuff has been developing?
I don't think so, but I would love to see some testing every some months and public testing results to comment. As the metagame varies.
Things that are used enough in standard play are UU. If we only played OU, it would be pretty boring. So, we ban the OUs and are left with a smaller metagame with weaker overall pokemon. In THAT metagame, there are pokemon that break the tier from a competitive standpoint. In the interest of preserving the lower tier, we ban those broken pokemon.[/quote]
You still think that BL is a metagame. It is not. It is a ban list for UU. BL pokemon are not OU because they aren't used enough. Tiers are based on USAGE.[/quote]
Ok I get it, let's get over this, shall we?. BL doesn't work as OU. OU battles just allow the same quantity pokemon and BL battles (if someone dares to try it) it's just UU, but broken as hell. It's not enlarging the list.
Why has been Limbo even been created? Anyway, thumbs up for that.
Too bad, but the topic was created because other people wanted to talk about the UU policy review so it is very related (even if we used pokemon from other tiers as examples of what's going on) You can, also, stop bothering about replying.
I just want to point out that you are arguing against yourself. You were the one that said BL works as OU, not me:
Limbo was created because of the gap in testing periods where they are allowed or banned in a tier, even though they still havent technically been voted on. It's basically a fancy word for "suspect"
Yes, the topic was created because people have wanted to talk about the policy review, that is exactly what I was trying to do in this post, this post and this post...but you're talking about the OU->Uber suspect test which has absolutely nothing to do with the UU test.
Can someone edit the OP now that jrrrrrrr has posted the new testing process in the Policy Review?
A quick thing about suspect experience after reading the Policy Review thread: SEXP is not hard to meet at all. During Latios testing, the controversial "unpublished requirement", in which you were supposed to deliberately and consistently gather information about the subject, was put into play. I'm guessing this requirement is now called SEXP. During the testing period, I only used Latios for less than a week at first, and only played an average of two-three battles per day. I was surprised to see myself on the list of those who reached the unpublished requirement, because I did not use Latios that much, nor see it that often because I did not battle much. Yet I was still eligible to vote even though I did not make the rating and deviation requirements.
My point is the SEXP is not a hard requirement to meet at all. People making arguments about how it artificially creates inflated usage of the suspect, leads to a bias of the voting pool to Uber/BL. It seems as though people think of the SEXP formula as a very hard requirement, in which you absolutely have to use the suspect every battle and fight it often. This wasn't the case in my experience.
A quick thing about suspect experience after reading the Policy Review thread: SEXP is not hard to meet at all. During Latios testing, the controversial "unpublished requirement", in which you were supposed to deliberately and consistently gather information about the subject, was put into play. I'm guessing this requirement is now called SEXP. During the testing period, I only used Latios for less than a week at first, and only played an average of two-three battles per day. I was surprised to see myself on the list of those who reached the unpublished requirement, because I did not use Latios that much, nor see it that often because I did not battle much. Yet I was still eligible to vote even though I did not make the rating and deviation requirements.
My point is the SEXP is not a hard requirement to meet at all. People making arguments about how it artificially creates inflated usage of the suspect, leads to a bias of the voting pool to Uber/BL. It seems as though people think of the SEXP formula as a very hard requirement, in which you absolutely have to use the suspect every battle and fight it often. This wasn't the case in my experience.