Gen 6 The XY Ubers Viability Ranking Thread [Read Post #1000]

[RotomPoison]

There is a lack of Hyper Beam Gardevoir in this thread.

252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Fairy Aura Xerneas: 516-607 (130.9 - 154%) -- guaranteed OHKO

gtfo xern

 

[Kebabe]

Scolipede > Deoxy A/S

Can we start deleting this guys posts one-liners without reasoning on sight? Seriously, this kind of posts creates nothing but hostility.

 

[ogasian]

You're actually incorrect. Mega gard is a weird mon in that it's can perform both a supporting role or an offensive role BUT as a pure supporting role it is utterly outclassed by slyveon who has access to wish + heal bell, and if you instead opt for an offensive set then it's utterly outclassed by xerneas in the sense that it's frailer, has a shittier typing, and worst yet it uses your megastone. Overall I can't really see much that mega gard does that isn't utterly outclassed. The set you posted can be performed better by xerneas though admittedly having 100 base speed is nice, it loses to both yveltal (fucker punch says hi) and xerneas doesn't really care. Gene easily ohko's with iron head.

Overall I say C rank is fine, unless you have some replays or a compelling argument to bring it up.

I'd say mega gardevoir should be kept unranked or C- rank

it's outclassed by xerneas in almost every way, except the support set. Mega Gardevoir just doesn't hit the same level of power xerneas has (and i'm saying this even though xerneas does NOT deserve S rank AT ALL), can't get past mega gengar, genesect or scizor (which are very dangerous in this meta) and is setup fodder for many things thanks to its not very good base 100 speed (and like Fireburn said, it consumes your mega slot)
Now the support set is better because of its great movepool with moves like Healing Wish, Taunt or Heal Bell (but even then it faces competition from arceus-fairy).

I specifically stated that Mega-Gardevoir's support sets were largely outclassed. I would be fine with C-Rank, and perhaps my initial evaluation was not an accurate representation of its abilities, this thing still deserves to be RANKED at the very least. The only reason to use it over all-out-attacker Xerneas (this is disregarding all other Xerneas sets) is its unpredictability movepool wise. With Destiny Bond, it can often get at least two kills due to it's high power and decent speed. Magic Coat plays mindgames with Deoxys-S leads, etc. You get my point. Anyway, I would like to see it in B-Rank but I would understand if it was placed in C.

Fireburn okay maybe it doesn't check yveltal ._.
Reviver :]]]]]]]]]]]]]] you need more happy

 

[Disaster Area]

I think another pokemon we need to add is Clefable for Mid-C Rank
Whilst it clearly has its flaws (e.g. mega-gengar weakness) it serves as one of geoxern's checks/counters, whilst also having access to heal bell, stealth rock, fairy STAB, and reliable recovery. It's quite specific and niche and a lil bit of a jack of all trades but it is relevant in the metagame and its niche is important.

 

[Haruno]

I think another pokemon we need to add is Clefable for Mid-C Rank
Whilst it clearly has its flaws (e.g. mega-gengar weakness) it serves as one of geoxern's checks/counters, whilst also having access to heal bell, stealth rock, fairy STAB, and reliable recovery. It's quite specific and niche and a lil bit of a jack of all trades but it is relevant in the metagame and its niche is important.

Shame it fares poorly against geoxern and the other options are done better by slyveon though sr is nice but it doesn't have the time to set them up. And unlike QUAGSIRE, the amount of mons CLEFABLE checks are far more limited.

 

[Disaster Area]

As I say, mid-C rank.

C Rank
Reserved for Pokemon with viable offensive or defensive capability. They have certain niches or utility that allow them to perform in specific roles. Reliant on fairly large amounts of team support to function and minimize their inherent flaws. They may also suffer significantly from opportunity cost to the point of being mostly outclassed.

That seems to fit pretty accurately.

 

[Magcargo]

I think another pokemon we need to add is Clefable for Mid-C Rank
Whilst it clearly has its flaws (e.g. mega-gengar weakness) it serves as one of geoxern's checks/counters, whilst also having access to heal bell, stealth rock, fairy STAB, and reliable recovery. It's quite specific and niche and a lil bit of a jack of all trades but it is relevant in the metagame and its niche is important.

Clefable is already top C-Rank.

The problem is that why would you EVER want to use a pokemon that's completely butt fucked by shadow tag and more prone to the boosted knock off when you have a mon that isn't nearly as weak to those things but accomplished pretty much the same things. Chansey was only slightly better than Blisssey last gen but because Blissey had nothing over Chansey it was pretty much outclassed.

Some people still may think that Chansey is viable due to its greater bulk with the Eviolite, which is why its nonviability should be highlighted by placing it in either D- or E-Rank.

 

[Reviver]

Yveltal ====> S-Rank

• Easily the most versatile Pokemon in Uber.
• Have arguably one of the best arsenal of moves.
• Very nicely placed stats and one of the few to effectively attack from both offensive spectrums. Elite speed tiers puts it ahead of common base 90s. Can accomplish defensive purposes. Reasonable bulk on offensive sets.
• Has vast utility to offer.
• No real downfall except for a Stealth Rock weakness.

 

[Disaster Area]

I didn't see that magcargo, thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Haruno]

Yveltal ====> S-Rank

• Easily the most versatile Pokemon in Uber.
• Have arguably one of the best arsenal of moves.
• Very nicely placed stats and one of the few to effectively attack from both offensive spectrums. Elite speed tiers puts it ahead of common base 90s. Can accomplish defensive purposes. Reasonable bulk on offensive sets.
• Has vast utility to offer.
• No real downfall except for a Stealth Rock weakness.

• You mispelled arceus.
• You mispelled arceus again.
• Yveltal doesn't have a good physical movepool at all. No decent flying stab outside of acrobatics and its other phys options are lacking. Yveltal has a decent speed tier, I wouldn't call 99 elite by any means since outspeeding the slowest shit in ubers isn't much of an accomplishment, though sucker punch does somewhat make up for its lackluster speed. Defensive set is overrated, special defensive set is garb.
• Can't run scarf, can run a solid LO set, can also somewhat run specs, a stallish variant works as well so I guess that's some utility.
• Xern bait, rockceus bait, sr weakness among other things.

I don't really see how this qualifies it as S. It might very well be S rank, but your arguments aren't compelling at all.

 

[Reviver]

• You mispelled arceus.
• You mispelled arceus again.
• Yveltal doesn't have a good physical movepool at all. No decent flying stab outside of acrobatics and its other phys options are lacking. Yveltal has a decent speed tier, I wouldn't call 99 elite by any means since outspeeding the slowest shit in ubers isn't much of an accomplishment, though sucker punch does somewhat make up for its lackluster speed. Defensive set is overrated, special defensive set is garb.
• Can't run scarf, can run a solid LO set, can also somewhat run specs, a stallish variant works as well so I guess that's some utility.
• Xern bait, rockceus bait, sr weakness among other things.

I don't really see how this qualifies it as S. It might very well be S rank, but your arguments aren't compelling at all.

• If you count all the Arceus Forms as one Pokemon I suppose, but....
• Yveltal has moves other Pokemon can only dream of.
• I'm talking mainly about Sucker Punch fitting into most of it's sets which is a very powerful priority move, hence, it follows that Yveltal puts both of it's offensive stats to good use without significant division of EVs.
• Yveltal can run a lot of things and yes, it can also run Scarf.
• Read: "true drawback" Yveltal doesn't have any true drawback besides SR weakness. Some Pokemon can counter/check it, but this is universal for all Pokemon....

Perhaps you don't see how my points qualifies Yveltal for S-Rank because you don't know the requirements of each ranks. I recommend you look at the first page, it explains clearly the criteria for each rank.

 

[Disaster Area]

For someone with such low post count your arrogance is very high.
Scarf isn't a great set for it, and it also really wishes it had knock off, pursuit, and brave bird.
If powerful sucker punch made all the difference for a pokemon wouldn't that make mawile viable? [hint: it doesn't]
SR weakness is a great drawback

 

[Asmodean]

Yveltal does deserve the High A rank it has. But it is not S rank material, i.e "metagame defining". Here is what S-rank is defined as:

The titans of the game. They bear massive offensive and defensive capabilities. Pokemon in this tier are extremely diverse, capable of fulfilling multiple roles on both defensive and offensive ends. There is virtually zero opportunity cost in using these Pokemon. They barely require support, if any, from the team and have immense utility to offer.

Piex makes a good argument regarding this.

Btw Piex, Post count =/= expertise.

 

[realiti]

• If you count all the Arceus Forms as one Pokemon I suppose, but....
• Yveltal has moves other Pokemon can only dream of.
• I'm talking mainly about Sucker Punch fitting into most of it's sets which is a very powerful priority move, hence, it follows that Yveltal puts both of it's offensive stats to good use without significant division of EVs.
• Yveltal can run a lot of things and yes, it can also run Scarf.
• Read: "true drawback" Yveltal doesn't have any true drawback besides SR weakness. Some Pokemon can counter/check it, but this is universal for all Pokemon....

Perhaps you don't see how my points qualifies Yveltal for S-Rank because you don't know the requirements of each ranks. I recommend you look at the first page, it explains clearly the criteria for each rank.

I forgot who said this(i think Haruno in the Mewtwo forums), but we should really play the metagame against good players who are not using bad stuff on the bottom of the ladder.

 

[Disaster Area]

Thanks Asmodean; I'm aware post count =/= expertise, but I nevertheless felt it was valid that he should probably lurk and play the metagame more before making sweeping statements, otherwise he risks being made a fool of. Obviously there's no problem with a good proper arguement, that's what this is partly here for, but those with limited expertise shouldn't be throwing their weight around as much regarding discussions.

 

[C AllStar]

Nominating Drapion for Mid C.

Drapion is quite bad, but it has a niche as one of the best trappers for Mega Gengar when holding Assault Vest, which is invaluable for many teams. While it is pitifully weak, Knock Off makes it quite hard to switch into. It even has an extensive offensive movepool to nail certain switch ins (Rock Slide for Ho-oh, EQ for Mega Blaze). It also does decently well against Mewtwo(except MMX), DeoA and Lugiass. The best thing is it lures opponent to think you being a noob and play recklessly and eventually ragequit when being owned by a freaking Drapion noob.

Unfortunately, Drapion's special bulk is trash even with Assualt Vest, forcing it to use a 4/252 spead and not able to take advantage of its actually decent physical bulk if it don't want to be 2HKOed by Focus Blast after rocks. Without physical bulk investment, it is so frail that it is 2HKOed by LO DeoA's Extremespeed. Its attack stat is utter trash and actually fails to OHKO bulkier Gengars switching out lol.

252+ Atk Drapion Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 270-318 (83.3 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Drapion is usually gatbage apart from its niche, but have been performing alright for me. This is a replay showing how it works...sometimes.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ubers-96123662

Admitedly, this replay is not actually a good one since this is one of the games I did in the early phase of laddering today (only around 14XX at that time) and I forget to save any replay (I didn't even save this, someone probably did it for me). But I have played more matches in PO with my phone that I am using now and it did its job decently and sometimes perform more than that. I think Mid C suits it well.

(Probably Piexplode's Honchkrow as well, but I have no experience with it)

 

[Disaster Area]

AV specially defensive honchkrow is the only thing that can guarantee getting off a pursuit trap versus mega-gengar, if they switch in on one another, even with stealth rock is up.
Not going to comment on its necessity to have a viability rank or analysis until I feel confident it really has worth.

 

[C AllStar]

252 Atk 252 SpDef Adamant Drapion can guarantee to avoid a 2HKO from any of Mega Gengar's moves even with rocks and OHKO non-defensive versions with Pursuit when switching out too. Though I agree that probably it is too niche for ranking. This should leave to the community to decide.

 

[MMII]

Again, for niche mons that have never sen play before, like Drapion, try to pass it through the qc process first. It's the best way to determine if something is actually viable and thus worth ranking.

 

[NightJackal]

For someone with such low post count your arrogance is very high.

That kinda hurts me as well, but I'll drop it.
On Mega Gardevoir (and by extent on every Fairy): While it's true that the Ubers meta was turned upside down by the introduction of Faries, tg\his doesn't mean that every Fairy is viable. Sure, many Fairies can have a niche, but usually this niche is included and done better by Xerneas, Fairy Arceus and Sylveon. Mega Gardy might be interesting, but by no means it is good. Same goes for Clefable. They can do some things, yes, but nothing Xerneas, Fairy Arceus or Sylveon can't do better. Ranking them high is pointless.
Drapion... AllStar, the reasons why Drapion probably can't make it in ranking are all listed in your post. As MM2 said, it's better to pass the qc process before deciding on its ranking... but personally I don't see it as probable.

 

[Reviver]

For someone with such low post count your arrogance is very high.
Scarf isn't a great set for it, and it also really wishes it had knock off, pursuit, and brave bird.
If powerful sucker punch made all the difference for a pokemon wouldn't that make mawile viable? [hint: it doesn't]
SR weakness is a great drawback

Scarf is a decent set for Yveltal, I didn't say it was great, it doesn't have to be. If a Pokemon has one or two really defining sets and a stew of other lesser but still viable sets to throw around, it is a versatile Pokemon. The comparison between Yveltal's Sucker Punch and Mawile's Sucker Punch is irrelevant. Yveltal has Stab as well as Dark Aura on his Sucker Punch, however, the most distinctive aspect is that Yveltal is not reliant on Sucker Punch due to it's base 99 speed unlike Mawile.

I would like to remind you to kind the conversation friendly. It is rude to call someone arrogant, especially someone whom you do not know. This is more true when you assume someone to be inexperienced due to his post cost with defines the term arrogance much better.

 

[ogasian]

That kinda hurts me as well, but I'll drop it.
On Mega Gardevoir (and by extent on every Fairy): While it's true that the Ubers meta was turned upside down by the introduction of Faries, tg\his doesn't mean that every Fairy is viable. Sure, many Fairies can have a niche, but usually this niche is included and done better by Xerneas, Fairy Arceus and Sylveon. Mega Gardy might be interesting, but by no means it is good. Same goes for Clefable. They can do some things, yes, but nothing Xerneas, Fairy Arceus or Sylveon can't do better. Ranking them high is pointless.
Drapion... AllStar, the reasons why Drapion probably can't make it in ranking are all listed in your post. As MM2 said, it's better to pass the qc process before deciding on its ranking... but personally I don't see it as probable.

Explain why Mega-Gardevoir is bad instead of saying that it is "outclassed." Can Xerneas utilize Taunt, Destiny Bond, Healing Wish, or Will-o-Wisp? Sylveon is not in any way comparable to Gardevoir-Mega, Sylveon usually utilizes a support set while Gardevoir is an offensive Pokemon. Arceus-Fairy is also not comparable to Gardevoir, Arc Fairy never runs [move]+3 Attacks. Clefable has Unaware, allowing it to check Geomancy Xerneas and other Special attackers.

Scarf is a decent set for Yveltal, I didn't say it was great, it doesn't have to be. If a Pokemon has one or two really defining sets and a stew of other lesser but still viable sets to throw around, it is a versatile Pokemon. The comparison between Yveltal's Sucker Punch and Mawile's Sucker Punch is irrelevant. Yveltal has Stab as well as Dark Aura on his Sucker Punch, however, the most distinctive aspect is that Yveltal is not reliant on Sucker Punch due to it's base 99 speed unlike Mawile.

I would like to remind you to kind the conversation friendly. It is rude to call someone arrogant, especially someone whom you do not know. This is more true when you assume someone to be inexperienced due to his post cost with defines the term arrogance much better.

Eat your own words, you literally ooze arrogance. Piexplode also specifically states that it was your posting quality combined with your post count that led him to believe that you should lurk more. Ill respond to Yveltal later

 

[NightJackal]

Explain why Mega-Gardevoir is bad instead of saying that it is "outclassed." Can Xerneas utilize Taunt, Destiny Bond, Healing Wish, or Will-o-Wisp? Sylveon is not in any way comparable to Gardevoir-Mega, Sylveon usually utilizes a support set while Gardevoir is an offensive Pokemon. Arceus-Fairy is also not comparable to Gardevoir, Arc Fairy never runs [move]+3 Attacks. Clefable has Unaware, allowing it to check Geomancy Xerneas and other Special attackers.

You're making a contradiction here. If Sylveon isn't comparable to Mega Gardevoir, then why do you mention Mega Gardevoir's support options? If you mean to say that moves like those you mentioned support Gardevoir in her offensive role, allow me to remind you of this: Xerneas can't utilize these moves, but it also doesn't need them. What it needs is Geomancy, and in some cases, Substitute. Gardevoir, on the other hand, needs them and can't even use them well enough. First of all, it's frail by Ubers standards, at least physically, and with 80 Speed, it means that in the turn it Mega Evolves it's very vulnerable. To go with this, even after it Mega Evolves, its utility is very hard to use properly. Where are you gonna cast Will-o'-Wisp? On Extreme Killer Arceus?

252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 294-346 (106.1 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gardevoir simply lacks the defense needed to use Will-o'-Wisp. Taunt is another of her options, but that, too, leaves her wide open, and unless it faces something like defensive Dialga, it won't do it much good. Destiny Bond is perhaps the best move it has among its surprise movepool, but Mega Gengar does that way better. And remember that Mega Gardevoir also takes up the Mega slot.
To summarise it: Mega Gardevoir and Clefable are viable in Ubers, yes. But they aren't what you'd call good in any way. They do have their usage, yes, and they do have their niche. But don't forget this is the Ubers tier. Many Pokemon have a niche, but it doesn't mean they are good. C Rank is good enough for Mega Gardevoir and Clefable. This is C Rank's definition:
Reserved for Pokemon with viable offensive or defensive capability. They have certain niches or utility that allow them to perform in specific roles. Reliant on fairly large amounts of team support to function and minimize their inherent flaws. They may also suffer significantly from opportunity cost to the point of being mostly outclassed.
I think it describes Gardy and Clefable perfectly.

 

[ogasian]

You're making a contradiction here. If Sylveon isn't comparable to Mega Gardevoir, then why do you mention Mega Gardevoir's support options? If you mean to say that moves like those you mentioned support Gardevoir in her offensive role, allow me to remind you of this: Xerneas can't utilize these moves, but it also doesn't need them. What it needs is Geomancy, and in some cases, Substitute. Gardevoir, on the other hand, needs them and can't even use them well enough. First of all, it's frail by Ubers standards, at least physically, and with 80 Speed, it means that in the turn it Mega Evolves it's very vulnerable. To go with this, even after it Mega Evolves, its utility is very hard to use properly. Where are you gonna cast Will-o'-Wisp? On Extreme Killer Arceus?

252+ Atk Life Orb Arceus Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 294-346 (106.1 - 124.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gardevoir simply lacks the defense needed to use Will-o'-Wisp. Taunt is another of her options, but that, too, leaves her wide open, and unless it faces something like defensive Dialga, it won't do it much good. Destiny Bond is perhaps the best move it has among its surprise movepool, but Mega Gengar does that way better. And remember that Mega Gardevoir also takes up the Mega slot.
To summarise it: Mega Gardevoir and Clefable are viable in Ubers, yes. But they aren't what you'd call good in any way. They do have their usage, yes, and they do have their niche. But don't forget this is the Ubers tier. Many Pokemon have a niche, but it doesn't mean they are good. C Rank is good enough for Mega Gardevoir and Clefable. This is C Rank's definition:
Reserved for Pokemon with viable offensive or defensive capability. They have certain niches or utility that allow them to perform in specific roles. Reliant on fairly large amounts of team support to function and minimize their inherent flaws. They may also suffer significantly from opportunity cost to the point of being mostly outclassed.
I think it describes Gardy and Clefable perfectly.

You completely missed the point of my post...that's like saying Ebelt Aromatherapy Xerneas is like Sylveon. Will-o-Wisp is used to lure Aegislash, a common switch-in to Gardevoir-Mega. What Mega-Gardevoir runs is [move]+3 Attacks, similar to Aromatherapy+3 Attacks Xerneas. Mega-Gengar may do that better, but does Mega-Gengar have that suprise factor, Fairy STAB, or the same unique typing as Mega-Gardevoir? One common move in two completely different Pokemon's movepool's outclassed does not make. You completely dismiss Xerneas's perfectly other viable sets and also severely underrate the value of Taunt. Taunt is a great disruptor move, from preventing SR to allowing a status-weak teammate to switch in for free. I don't think you understand what Clefable does...all you are doing is repeating that they deserve C-Rank with no real reasoning.

No shit it's the Ubers tier. Don't forget you dont have to use bog-standard Pokemon. It's clear you don't grasp how to use Mega-Gardevoir / Clefable. If you don't use them for their specific niches, they won't preform well.

 

[Haruno]

Just out of curiosity would someone mind explaining aggron/gene/skarms placement?