this team blows chunks

Bourbon

This team has deviated far from the original plan. In the first iteration, I concentrated on trying to screw up Blissey so that I could sweep with Sub Calm Mind Alakazam, who I was testing at the time for my peer edit... but one by one I noticed weaknesses and now it is less coherent. The team (and my strategy) is slowly evolving to help out Kingdra instead, because it's a surprisingly effective sweeper. I want to get rid of Celetran because I kind of hate both of them, but I need ideas.

I was doing OK, but now I keep getting haxed. Bad. We're talking three pokemon frozen at the same time "hax"


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Heatran (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 6 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Stealth Rock

Blah blah blah, Heatran, we all know what it does. Helps against Shaymin, Scizor, Lucario and stuff. I hate this thing with a passion, but it wins games.



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Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP/216 SpD/40 Spe
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Sludge Bomb
- Surf
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Raikoulover was right... my team was too mediocre to accomplish anything. Therefore, the new plan is to get those Toxic Spikes down, and start raping with Scizor and Kingdra. Tentacruel here makes sure that my field stays clear of TS while my opponent's is covered with them. Helps against Infernape and Heatran as well.


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Scizor (M) @ Iron Plate
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk??
Adamant nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break
- Roost

Way better than expected. Now I know what all the hype is about. You can smell the desperation when your opponent's team is in SD Bullet Punch KO range... and if you get Scizor in, it's curtains for them... Good at killinf Tyranitar too.


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Kingdra (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 248 HP/96 Atk/52 SpD/112 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -Satk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Substitute
- Waterfall

My new favorite sweeper. I modified the EVs a bit so that weak bulky waters can't break my sub with Ice Beam. It's pretty cool.


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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power Fire
- Recover
- Thunder Wave

I switched to the bog standard Celebi. Sub seeding is so much fun, but I need the extra support. Thunderwave anything not Ground type, Grass Knot everything that is. Hidden Power Fire is for Scizor.

I currently replaced Celebi with a weird Starmie but I want to change back.

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Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 248 HP/56 Atk/216 Spe
Adamant nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Roost
- Light Screen
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw

A strange bulky Dragonite. Counters Skymin and sweeps all on it's own. If you don't have Toxic, Roar or Ice Shard you aren't taking this down.
 
skiddle said:
no picture... help?

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP/224 Spd/44 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

My generic lead/revenge killer. Helps with Scizor and Metagross quite a bit. I am annoyed though, because it just adds to the massive Dark weakness I have going on.

probably not the best lead i think heatran would be better
maybe change to washing machine rotom too with hydro pump instead of overheat for infernape and heatran that give you problems
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Hariyama (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 16 HP/4 Atk/252 Def/176 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Force Palm
- Payback
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Hariyama is pretty awesome. He's a great switch-in to all kinds of Pokemon, like Heatran, Gengar and Blissey. A fairly dependable team member... but I want Ice Punch over payback because those stupid Life Orb DDmence always come in. Great Tyranitar counter.

hes fine but think about machamp with no guard rest ,sleep talk ,dynamic punch, and stone egde/ice punch still beats blissey/tyranitar. the confusion of dynamicpunch is really helpful sometimes

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Heatran (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 6 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Stealth Rock

Blah blah blah, Heatran, we all know what it does. Helps against Shaymin, Scizor, Lucario and stuff. I hate this thing with a passion, but it wins games.

fire blast is better than flamethrower average damage wise if you dont mind the accuracy .dragon pulse is really only better than hp ice against kingdra.

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Alakazam (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 152 HP/176 Spd/180 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Focus Blast
- Psychic

A fairly effective set... to be honest, I'm only using it as a test for my Alakazam analysis. Works OK. The Substitutes are not broken in one hit by Celebi, Cressilia or Blissey. After a couple of Calm Minds, even Zapdos and Vaporeon become set up bait.

looks like it might work but shadow ball or signal beam over sub would allow you to actually hit psychics. maybe max speed special attack? life orb is worth a try too.



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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Another Pokemon I am not satisfied with. Substitute has saved me more times than I can remember, but where do I put Recover? It needs so many moves... :/

put recover over hp fire or substitute, earth power could be pretty sweet too to hit heatrans. also t-wave is uber annoying since all ground types are scared of grass knot, also beats life orb Dragon dance ice fang gyarados.

Gyarados counter, a good Earthquake absorber.

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Muk (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 200 HP/56 Def/252 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Curse
- Brick Break
- Poison Jab
- Fire Punch

I had this thing for Shaymin, which it does a good job of countering. I want to replace it with Light Screen Dragonite. That's not a bad idea...

hard choice here light screen dragonite for beating hp ice less skymin,+speed nature scarf salamence for revenge killing other salamences that could do some damage to skarmory and blissey, or you could go with all out mixed salamence or mixed dragonite for taking down the skarmory and blissey combo.


Anyways, I am hastily posting this because I keep getting brutally raped by Salamence and the like. That, and I have no mixed attackers, so Skarmbliss is pretty annoying, surprisingly. This is one of my stupidest teams I have ever made, and if I can't fix it, I'll go back to my old bog standard team.
Click to expand...
3 steps
step 1 fix
step 2 it
step 3 fix it
 
If you're so concerned about mence, switch muk for Registeel: this way you counter both skymin AND mence, and you could even run explosion to sort-of deal with walls, lol.
 
Why do people think Celebi is a Gyarados counter? :/

A dragon danced life orb Ice Fang from Adamant Gyara 2HKOs your Celebi and there is nothing you can do about it. Grass Knot is only a 3HKO(2HKO with SR).

The only way Celebi can counter Gyarados is by using a combination of Reflect, Thunder wave and recover.
 
I run Muk with:

Muk (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP/108 Def/148 SDef
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Ice Punch
- Curse
- Shadow Sneak
- Brick Break

He can't handle Scizor as well, but Shaymin can't shut him down and neither can dragons, or heatran for that. Zapdos is a popular switch after I bring in Muk, which usually tries to PP Stall Ice Punch with Roost/Sub..I use those turns to Curse up and then sweep with a Muk. This set has worked out really well for me. Fire Punch may be better because it can still ohko shay? and hurt scizor pretty bad, but then you have a dragon problem.

I run his Nature/EVs the way I do so that I can switch into hits and also take hits from things and still hit back.

Poison Jab is kinda silly imo, so many things resist it :(
 
Made changes. Rotom is doing, ok... I guess. Sometimes he sweeps the whole team, sometimes he just completely fails. I am not sure what I think of him. Dragonite is doing very very very good, I am hugely impressed.

I changed Celebi around a bit. I still need a good mixed sweeper. In the OP I was thinking about Kingdra. I think I will put Alakazam in the lead spot, remove Rotom, and put in Kingdra, see how that works out.
 
Tran lead with DDmixKingdra over Rotom could be cool.


Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk/228 Spd/28 SAtk
IVs: 29 HP
Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Hydro Pump
 
Rotom-H bares all

Your team looks alright, but is seems to be thrown together a bit randomly without a central defining strategy. I've got a couple of bits of advice on certain pokemon though:

Hariyama - how about running Revenge over Force Palm? Since Hariyama is dead slow already its negative priority shouldn't make any difference, and will give Hariyama a reliable 120 base power STAB attack. Without much attack investment, your Hariyama will have trouble denting things at all with Force Palm. I think the extra power would be preferred in taking out Blissey since you entire team is specially based, and would be much more beneficial than the small paralysis chance.

Heatran - Consider Fire Blast over Flamethrower.

- Timid Heatran Flamethrower vs 252HP Celebi - 77.0 - 91.2%
- Timid Heatran Fire Blast vs 252HP Celebi - 97.0 - 114.9%

Alakazam - Try running 216 Spe to outrun all base 115s after you've tricked your scarf. The extra speed Evs are redundant and can be put into HP to bolster Alakazam's decent SpD.

--

That's about it. Your team has 3 Dark and Ghost weaks, which could be a serious problem if you are caught without Heatran. Your team is also very heavily biased to the special side, like I said. I think it will help your team a lot if you add a physical attacker, something like Scizor, which would also help with your Ghost/Dark weaks. I suggest replacing Rotom-H or Alakazam, I don't see them contributing too much.
Also, like I said, I don't really see a central strategy to your team. It seems that teams need a defining strategy in order to be effective, be it full blown rain dance or 'remove counters for a Scizor sweep'. I don't see what your team aims to do apart from have checks on most common threats.

Hope my criticisms were not too strong and that they helped.

LR.
 
I am going to change Dragonite to be physical then. Fire Punch will still dent stuff anyways. I changed Kingdra a bit, and I want to remove Celetran for something better :/
 
I suggest making Kingdra Swift Swim, and have his HP Maxed out at 252. Speed I would go with enough to outspeed Gengar than put the rest into attack.

Also, I recommend giving Dragonite Thunderwave. Your team does well with status I think, you have a RestTalker, a Natural Cure pokemon, and Kingdra will be hidden behind subs. Light Screen may also help a bit on Draggy, you can help out Kingdra and the rest of the team with it.
 
I am thinking of an expert belt starmie, with reduced speed EVs but increased defense, to help with Gyarados and Scizor (hidden power fire, resists BP). I will put it over Celebi, and maybe swap Alakazam for Weavile. I'll have to keep changing stuff around I guess :/
 
Celebi is an excellent sweeper when used to potential. Your team seems quite predictable, I think that Celebi could be used as a potent sweeper, and maybe you could use your Gengar to status?

My suggestions:

Celebi as a special sweeper. He can take care of Scizor with Hp Fire, and Gyarados really isn't a problem if you run a Gengar with an electric attack.

Gengar using trick, thunder wave, Hypnosis( could be replaced with shadow ball), and one more move.

I don't like Starmie. He gets trappeed by Weavile way too easily, hell...Ttar can take him easily with Pursuit. That goes with Celebi too, but comeon, As a special sweeper, Celebi rapes.

Hope I helped.
 
If Celebi goes sweeper, then Gyarados will cause problems for me... see? There's just too many things to counter or even revenge kill in this game.

Celetran has got to go, period. So, in two teamslots, I need a counter for Gyarados, Scizor, and Lucario. And a good lead, but Gengar might be able to do that.
 
skiddle said:
If Celebi goes sweeper, then Gyarados will cause problems for me... see? There's just too many things to counter or even revenge kill in this game.

Celetran has got to go, period. So, in two teamslots, I need a counter for Gyarados, Scizor, and Lucario. And a good lead, but Gengar might be able to do that.
Click to expand...

well Rotom-H can counter luke and scizor and a whole load of other things and with max hp and defense plus a reflect he can counter gyarados but thats very hard to pull off so i wouldnt call him a great counter with those average defenses but i guess you can put t-bolt on gengar but that wouldnt be countering unless u predict EQ. as for EV's just max hp and defenses... the spread thats has like 88 spe or sumthing is silly because he doesnt need to outrun scizor and cant counter ttar.

oh wait... gyarados counter gyarados, scizor and luke


EDIT: guy above me just beat me to it (gyarados counter thingy lol)

EDIT EDIT: >>>>>>EFFING READ THIS<<<<<<<

definitely put in gyarados over celebi he "absorbs" EQs like celebi counters those 3 asses above and helps with salamence dd-lo weak that hariyama cant handle
 
So I should put Gyarados, and something else... I dunno, maybe I'll just stick with what I have, as sucky as it is.
 
seconding what raikoulover said about kingdra max hp and swift swim if you keep him and replace celebi with gyarados, stone edge gyarados gives you problems so maybe replace kingdra instead not celebi
 
Skiddle, I think the problem with your team is that you are stuck between trying to counter everything without being stall. Either go a little more offensive or all out stall. Honestly, I don't see how this team will get by a stall team, you only have 1 stat booster. Then for offensive teams, you don't have any "walls" so maybe you are just caught in between.

In all honesty, I would keep celebi and make it reflect, throw in a RestTalk DD Gyarados to rape lucario and scizor, Substitute Hariyama for a scizor or lucario of your own to help with tar, and go from there. Try countering threats while still posing an offensive presence. That is how the metagame is now. Too much defense and you can't overcome stall...
 
OK... I'll hop on the bandwagon and get Scizor :S

What set should I run on it? I want Roost for sure, Scizor is pretty bulky and I want to keep it that way. I think I will also change my Dragonite into Light Screen DD Dragonite, that'd be pretty sweet right there. I also want a way to remove Toxic Spikes.

So I'm thinking Heatran in lead, followed by Kingdra, Scizor, Celebi, Tentacruel, Dragonite. Tentacruel could help cope with the loss of hariyama, as he used to be a good heatran switch-in, as well as suck up those spikes. or, I could run Drapion, the support set. Maybe some extra attack to smack around Lucario, as those Ice Punch ones are pretty hard to beat.
 
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