I've thought about it. I don't want to clog up the base 90 speed tier though. I think it is more interesting to have odd speed tiers like this cause speed ties are lame. If it seems a tad low, you could think of it as speed creeping base 85s.
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I've thought about it. I don't want to clog up the base 90 speed tier though. I think it is more interesting to have odd speed tiers like this cause speed ties are lame. If it seems a tad low, you could think of it as speed creeping base 85s.
My suggestions of changes:
beartic ice -> ice/water. Give it waterfall
new stats: 95/120/80/70/80/80
Justification: Has swift swim as HA, gets 6 water type moves
electivire electric -> electric/fighting. Give it close combat and mach punch
new stats: 75/133/67/95/85/115
justification: Gets many fighting-type moves, it's on the human-like egg group
avalugg ice -> ice/steel
thick fat replaces own tempo
new stats: 105/117/194/44/86/28
justification: Its ice armor is hard as steel.
vanilluxe ice -> ice/flying. Give it air slash and hurricane
Super luck replaces weak armor
new stats: 91/95/85/120/95/99
justification: It's floating (drifblim is flying type too), and can create winds, but that are cold.
beartic ice -> ice/water. Give it waterfall
new stats: 95/120/80/70/80/80
Justification: Has swift swim as HA, gets 6 water type moves
electivire electric -> electric/fighting. Give it close combat and mach punch
new stats: 75/133/67/95/85/115
justification: Gets many fighting-type moves, it's on the human-like egg group
avalugg ice -> ice/steel
thick fat replaces own tempo
new stats: 105/117/194/44/86/28
justification: Its ice armor is hard as steel.
vanilluxe ice -> ice/flying. Give it air slash and hurricane
Super luck replaces weak armor
new stats: 91/95/85/120/95/99
justification: It's floating (drifblim is flying type too), and can create winds, but that are cold.
Replies on Bold.
Time to be a party-pooper!
I would think it more important that Beedrill can fly. Though it can't Fly, but there's plenty of Flying types that can't Fly. Point being, don't we care more about the Pokemon's traits?
"Raichu" is misspelled. Don't really agree with making all the Electric rodents even more alike, either, but whatever.
Having Psychic powers isn't the same thing as being a Psychic type... and in fact the series has, at various points, claimed that all humans have Psychic potential within them, even though most people don't manifest such. In general, having substantial access to a move type doesn't necessarily qualify a Pokemon as being of that type -there usually has to be something about the Pokemon itself that fits to the typing.
It's "mammalian".
Most mammal Normal types are Normal types because they're just sort of generically a real animal, but as a Pokemon, rather than being a fire-breathing cow or something. Primeape is quite clearly pulling from associations between monkeys and martial arts, giving it something more distinctive than "just a monkey".
It's "signature". But what about Arcanine itself suggests Normal type? Various pokedex entries ascribe it an almost mythical characteristic -basically the opposite of ordinary everyday boring Normal type.
I never noticed any water pollution inspiration to it, unless you're inexplicably using the anime episode in which Grimer clog a power plant and are in water as the basis, which seems a stretch. And Vaporeon is the only Water type off the top of my head that is "made of water", vs the million and one Water types that live in water and/or use it as an offensive tool -oh and Vaporeon lives in the water and uses it as an offensive tool too.
It's a ghost that hides in your shadow and evolves from living toxic gas. I... don't see why Dark is justified, unless the goal here is to make Gengar even better than it already is.
It's "Blissey", and why do people want to remove the ability to smash it with Close Combat and similar and require super effective damage be restricted to 80-90 BP moves and the occasional Gunk Shot? And there's plenty of Fairies not in the Fairy egg group, not to mention several Fairy egg group Pokemon I wouldn't expect to be a Fairy type... this is a weak justification for making an already great Pokemon absurd.
Oh god the misspellings.
Scizor's Pokedex entries are explicit that it's wings serve the purpose of keeping it cool. They are not functional as flight devices. It makes perfect sense that Scizor is no longer Flying type, because it can no longer fly.
So now it's no longer doubly weak to Stealth Rock, can mash basically anything with a STAB neutrally-or-better effectively 120+ BP move (Aerilated Return/Frustration and Close Combat), and we again come back to the point that a Pokemon's learnlist is not the best place to look for ideas of what type a Pokemon should be.
To be entirely fair, Pinsir is a Bug that looks to seek out duels and stuff, I can see the Fighting typing as being logical, but ohmygod would Mega Pinsir be a monster and the presented justification is ugh.
Wrong! Gyarados is based on kites of carp that are part of a traditional festival, which itself comes back to a story about a carp becoming a dragon by climbing a waterfall -but Gyarados is based on the kites of carp. This is why it is part Flying type and yet lacks most Flying type considerations -it's a kite, they can fly sort of, but not in the way of a bird. (Think of its access to Bounce but not Fly)
(I only recently learned this myself, and was just mystified for years about what was up with Gyarados...)
It already gets Outrage, albeit only as a tutor move in Gen V thus far. It's also an extremely gentle Pokemon and partly based on ferries, and it's an Ice type for some reason. (I guess because Loch Ness is a misty, cold lake?) If it made sense to be a Dragon type it probably would've been that in Gen I instead of Ice typed, in all honesty.
And it's Lapras.
That's like saying a wood carving should be Steel typed because you used a metal knife.
No justification provided, and if it's because Kabutops is an arthropod, I got news for you: so's Crawdaunt, Kingler, and basically anything else with a shell. Bugs are arthropods but arthropods are not necessarily bugs.
My only criticism is I feel it's more relevant that pokedex entries describe undersea colonies of Dratini, and you fish up Dratini to catch it back in Gen I. I actually agree with the typing -I can believe that if Pokemon had three types in the first place that Game Freak would've gone Dragon/Water Dragon/Water Dragon/Water/Flying for the line.
fan terminology is like the worst justification i can imagine for anything
And wouldn't that imply that its enhanced clone Mewtwo must be a Psychic/Fairy?
It already gets Calm Mind by TM, and in all honesty if it were going to be Psychic at all I'd expect it to be in place of the Normal typing, not in addition...
TOGEPI ISN'T A NORMAL TYPE ANYMORE
Amphoros? It's Ampharos.
By the way, the Japanese name is a pun that explains the Mega's Dragon typing -part the name, read aloud, can be read either both as a kanji meaning "electric current" or as a different kanji meaning "electric dragon". So fair enough.
There's two "L"s in Azurill and Azumarill. And how on earth does keeping the single most common type to outright replace -including that Eeveelutions who don't have to replace the Normal type all do so- make any sense? Why are we giving Azumarill Return/Frustration STAB??
aaaaaaaaaa
As cool as Ghost/Fairy Mismagius is, the whole "is a witch that evolves from a banshee" thing doesn't seem to mesh with the Fairy vibe.
It's based on the Tsuchinoko, a mythical snake that can burrow backwards with its spade-like tail and is fat. So fair enough on the Fairy typing (Though really I'd have expected Game Freak to do that itself if they felt it fit) but the Ground typing seems a bit of a stretch to me for the same basic reason as the Fairy issue, but more so. Wouldn't it have just been straight Ground in the first place if the burrowing was that defining?
And why is "Base Stats" being stated but no stats specified?
It's a flying scorpion, actually, which is a much more pressing reason to justify the Bug typing. I don't necessarily agree mind, but there's better justification available is my point.
Actually, they're called bulldogs because they were a specially bred breed made for the express purpose of getting them to attach to a bull's face and hold there as long as possible. As part of inane arena bet stuff. That's why they're so stubborn about holding on, not to mention why they have such bizarre faces.
Why is it being given back its Normal typing without explanation or commentary?
fan terms are still bad justification for anything
And it's Celebi.
Since when do chickens fly? And before anyone points out Dodrio, keep in mind Dodrio can be taught Fly -Blaziken cannot. Flying is not the Bird type for a reason.
Water skater metamorphoses into a flying bug that no longer skates on water.
Is still Water type.
???
Learns Surf, allowing it to ferry Trainers across the ocean on its back, even though it doesn't learn Fly because it couldn't possibly carry a Trainer on its back.
?????????????????
Ye gods no. Egg group says something about a Pokemon, but typing is not that thing.
what
Does nobody realize Nincada is a Ground type because it lives underground, which neither Ninjask nor Shedinja do? And why on earth would either of them gain Earthquake, which is generally given to Pokemon that either have a mastery of ground or are so immensely strong (or perhaps heavy) they can just slam the ground to shake it, which is well beyond Ninjask and Shedinja's ability.
Not even getting into how competitively useless it would be for them.
Fair enough on Levitate, but if magnetism as a theme was enough to justify the Electric typing, wouldn't have Nosepass been Rock/Electric from the beginning?
No, it is not turning into rock. It has precious gems for some body parts, including its eyes, which is not remotely the same thing. Nor are the gems in question likely to be sufficient armor as to justify a Rock typing...
If Dark made sense it would've gotten it in Gen III. And you want to take a Pokemon with virtually perfect coverage that got banned from OU recently in spite of having a one-dimensional moveset and give it STAB on Sucker Punch?
Again, "Base Stats" is stated but no stats are provided. And why are very dapper fireflies part Fairy? And why are very dapper fireflies part Electric?
Again, a more relevant point is that the entire line is based on real bugs, specifically antlions and the dragonfly-esque creatures they metamorphose into.
Wait, Fairy=beauty? Since when? And why is a sea serpent that is pure Water normally being made part-Dragon?
I can sort of see the Normal typing, but the Dark typing is fairly arbitrary (And note that Grudge is a Ghost move, not a Dark move -the games themselves place "holds a grudge" as a Ghost concept, not a Dark concept, which makes sense given the things that are normally attributed to preventing Ghosts from moving on) and why on earth does it gain Play Rough?
It foresees disaster, that's not necessarily the same thing as "seeing the future". It's also got this yin-yang thing going on, and is trying to do right by people, and so on. Wouldn't Dark/Fairy make more sense with all that? (It even gets Play Rough naturally)
... how so? And what does angelicism have to do with the Fairy type?
I appreciate the Rock typing flavor-wise (It's always baffled me that it isn't Ice/Rock as is) but, again, the egg group makes no sense as a justification (This is a demon-faced thing that wants to be left alone) and this makes it incredibly crappy competitively, more so than it already is -Bullet Punch, die.
And how does Solid Rock make more sense than Ice Body? It's not like it's going to be more useful competitively, if that's the thought.
a fairy dies every time somebody uses this logic
What does that have to do with anything?
There has never been a single instance anywhere in the Pokemon canon of equating the Poison type to virii.
fan terms are still dumb reasons to do things
Yeah, a bird that doesn't fly. It's not the Bird type. It's the Flying type. Are we going to start removing the Flying type from Gliscor, Dragonite, the sky Pokemon Rayquaza, and every other Flying type that isn't a bird?
This sounds to me like a really weak attempt to justify giving it Close Combat STAB.
Shouldn't it be dark if we're going to focus on how it's a savage bird and all?
dark coloration does not a Dark type make
Anybody else notice that Absol is visually dominated by white, because its fur is white? You can't even tell me it's about the name of the Dark type -the original Japanese gets translated as the "evil" type- because the English version is just being kid-friendly by American standards in its choice of terminology.
The whole "aura manipulation" thing isn't Psychic. Even its telepathy isn't described as a psychic power. The aura manipulation thing is DBZ-esque "high level martial artists can literally kill people with willpower".
what
It loses its Ghost typing and keeps its Electric typing because it retains its electric nature but cannot phase the things it has possessed, where phasing into them is how it possesses them in the first place. This change is not actually logical or consistent.
And Rotom uses Formes.
They're based on the imperial regalia of Japan.
And "you, me, us".
And OK yeah their names (Even in Japanese) are in part from fantasy critters.
But they're not based on fairies.
Given the Japanese (And Chinese, for that matter, and European, and...) Dragon=imperial equivalency I'd sooner add Dragon type to them. (Thus making them all further Latis, which is painful)
fan-term bad
And no justification is even listed for Shaymin anyway. Buh?
I get where Dragon is coming from and can actually agree with it, but why Dark??
Pigs are exceptionally clean creatures that A: bath in dust (or mud) when water is unavailable, to regulate their temperature either way (They can't sweat) and B: are forbidden by Jewish creed to eat as "unclean" food. No.
Nor does being dirty in any way explain the Ground typing, nor is Emboar even based on pigs per se (TUSKS), and in fact it's probably in part influenced by Ganon's design, not to mention it's pulling from the Chinese tale "Journey to the West" for it's man-pig-ness....
This makes my brain hurt.
I will give whoever came up with this that Sacred Sword's original users all use horns, and that Keldeo's horn is basically identical to Samurott's horn.
Imma say it looks like a dragon and say we dragon type it without explanation.
why are we making the punk lizard into a dragon
Still not seeing any relevancy whatsoever.
If magnetism -oh wait, I already covered this with Probopass.
The heck does being based on a Lamprey (It's spelled with an E by the way) have to do with justifying a Poison typing. And why would anyone anywhere want to annihilate Eelektross' entire gimmick by making it not a pure Electric levitator?
None provided, makes no sense. How the heck does a bird of that construction perform a flying kick, one leg outstretched to smack into the target with great force? Why doesn't this break every bone in its body on impact, other than Pokephysics? What, is this some meta-commentary about how Americans are reckless and combative??
No justification provided, doesn't really make sense. It has some metal collars, so it's Steel typed? Does Granbull become Steel typed when I take it for a walk in a metal collar? Does any Pokemon holding an Iron Ball become Steel type??
what why
I agree this makes general sense but oh god OHKOed by Stealth Rock.
I can sort of see Mega Launcher, but why does putting a different Drive into it change its typing? If I put a DVD about the ocean into a DVD player does the DVD player turn into water?
The heck does a mime and a creepy otherworldly ballroom dancer have to do with a living musical note that sings and dances. And why on earth does it get Lunar Dance? You have to manually teach Meloetta a song to remind it of how to dance!
this makes no more sense than it did for Azumarill
There are so many Pokemon that would be Fairy typed if that's what mattered. Like Koffing.
please the entire world stop trying to add the Grass typing to the flower Fairy
More relevantly, it's an underwater squid.
But why can it swim up Waterfalls now?
No justification, which is good, because nothing could justify this.
No justification, makes no sense, makes Aurorus even crappier than ever. If you're going to give Aurorus anything, give it Electric typing because of its aurora theme and Electric movepool.
It's slime isn't toxic (just gooey -note that it gets Gooey but not Poison Point or Poison Touch or Liquid Ooze) and being friendly is a ridiculous reason to be Fairy typed for the reason I described with Vivillon.
Everything about this mystifies me. Yes, it's based on a Jack-O-Lantern, but if you look you'll notice it doesn't seem to glow with an inner fire in either evolution stage. It's just a creepy ghostly plant. And even with flame powers, why can it spew lava?
No justification provided, not even the word justification.
Not all snakes are poisonous.
Why is the psychic jet being given a typing that goes with a Pokemon that flies with actual physics?
Slugs are not poisonous.
No justification for any of these. I'm particularly baffled by Garbodor -it's a pile of trash, not a pile of recyclables. Soft trash. Like food. And garbage bags. Though really I don't get Wormadam-Trash Cloak being Poison typed, either. It's using insulation from buildings, not trash as in garbage cans -there's a reason this is its indoors form.
I would think it more important that Beedrill can fly. Though it can't Fly, but there's plenty of Flying types that can't Fly. Point being, don't we care more about the Pokemon's traits?
"Raichu" is misspelled. Don't really agree with making all the Electric rodents even more alike, either, but whatever.
Having Psychic powers isn't the same thing as being a Psychic type... and in fact the series has, at various points, claimed that all humans have Psychic potential within them, even though most people don't manifest such. In general, having substantial access to a move type doesn't necessarily qualify a Pokemon as being of that type -there usually has to be something about the Pokemon itself that fits to the typing.
It's "mammalian".
Most mammal Normal types are Normal types because they're just sort of generically a real animal, but as a Pokemon, rather than being a fire-breathing cow or something. Primeape is quite clearly pulling from associations between monkeys and martial arts, giving it something more distinctive than "just a monkey".
It's "signature". But what about Arcanine itself suggests Normal type? Various pokedex entries ascribe it an almost mythical characteristic -basically the opposite of ordinary everyday boring Normal type.
I never noticed any water pollution inspiration to it, unless you're inexplicably using the anime episode in which Grimer clog a power plant and are in water as the basis, which seems a stretch. And Vaporeon is the only Water type off the top of my head that is "made of water", vs the million and one Water types that live in water and/or use it as an offensive tool -oh and Vaporeon lives in the water and uses it as an offensive tool too.
It's a ghost that hides in your shadow and evolves from living toxic gas. I... don't see why Dark is justified, unless the goal here is to make Gengar even better than it already is.
It's "Blissey", and why do people want to remove the ability to smash it with Close Combat and similar and require super effective damage be restricted to 80-90 BP moves and the occasional Gunk Shot? And there's plenty of Fairies not in the Fairy egg group, not to mention several Fairy egg group Pokemon I wouldn't expect to be a Fairy type... this is a weak justification for making an already great Pokemon absurd.
Oh god the misspellings.
Scizor's Pokedex entries are explicit that it's wings serve the purpose of keeping it cool. They are not functional as flight devices. It makes perfect sense that Scizor is no longer Flying type, because it can no longer fly.
So now it's no longer doubly weak to Stealth Rock, can mash basically anything with a STAB neutrally-or-better effectively 120+ BP move (Aerilated Return/Frustration and Close Combat), and we again come back to the point that a Pokemon's learnlist is not the best place to look for ideas of what type a Pokemon should be.
To be entirely fair, Pinsir is a Bug that looks to seek out duels and stuff, I can see the Fighting typing as being logical, but ohmygod would Mega Pinsir be a monster and the presented justification is ugh.
Wrong! Gyarados is based on kites of carp that are part of a traditional festival, which itself comes back to a story about a carp becoming a dragon by climbing a waterfall -but Gyarados is based on the kites of carp. This is why it is part Flying type and yet lacks most Flying type considerations -it's a kite, they can fly sort of, but not in the way of a bird. (Think of its access to Bounce but not Fly)
(I only recently learned this myself, and was just mystified for years about what was up with Gyarados...)
It already gets Outrage, albeit only as a tutor move in Gen V thus far. It's also an extremely gentle Pokemon and partly based on ferries, and it's an Ice type for some reason. (I guess because Loch Ness is a misty, cold lake?) If it made sense to be a Dragon type it probably would've been that in Gen I instead of Ice typed, in all honesty.
And it's Lapras.
That's like saying a wood carving should be Steel typed because you used a metal knife.
No justification provided, and if it's because Kabutops is an arthropod, I got news for you: so's Crawdaunt, Kingler, and basically anything else with a shell. Bugs are arthropods but arthropods are not necessarily bugs.
My only criticism is I feel it's more relevant that pokedex entries describe undersea colonies of Dratini, and you fish up Dratini to catch it back in Gen I. I actually agree with the typing -I can believe that if Pokemon had three types in the first place that Game Freak would've gone Dragon/Water Dragon/Water Dragon/Water/Flying for the line.
fan terminology is like the worst justification i can imagine for anything
And wouldn't that imply that its enhanced clone Mewtwo must be a Psychic/Fairy?
It already gets Calm Mind by TM, and in all honesty if it were going to be Psychic at all I'd expect it to be in place of the Normal typing, not in addition...
TOGEPI ISN'T A NORMAL TYPE ANYMORE
Amphoros? It's Ampharos.
By the way, the Japanese name is a pun that explains the Mega's Dragon typing -part the name, read aloud, can be read either both as a kanji meaning "electric current" or as a different kanji meaning "electric dragon". So fair enough.
There's two "L"s in Azurill and Azumarill. And how on earth does keeping the single most common type to outright replace -including that Eeveelutions who don't have to replace the Normal type all do so- make any sense? Why are we giving Azumarill Return/Frustration STAB??
aaaaaaaaaa
As cool as Ghost/Fairy Mismagius is, the whole "is a witch that evolves from a banshee" thing doesn't seem to mesh with the Fairy vibe.
It's based on the Tsuchinoko, a mythical snake that can burrow backwards with its spade-like tail and is fat. So fair enough on the Fairy typing (Though really I'd have expected Game Freak to do that itself if they felt it fit) but the Ground typing seems a bit of a stretch to me for the same basic reason as the Fairy issue, but more so. Wouldn't it have just been straight Ground in the first place if the burrowing was that defining?
And why is "Base Stats" being stated but no stats specified?
It's a flying scorpion, actually, which is a much more pressing reason to justify the Bug typing. I don't necessarily agree mind, but there's better justification available is my point.
Actually, they're called bulldogs because they were a specially bred breed made for the express purpose of getting them to attach to a bull's face and hold there as long as possible. As part of inane arena bet stuff. That's why they're so stubborn about holding on, not to mention why they have such bizarre faces.
Why is it being given back its Normal typing without explanation or commentary?
fan terms are still bad justification for anything
And it's Celebi.
Since when do chickens fly? And before anyone points out Dodrio, keep in mind Dodrio can be taught Fly -Blaziken cannot. Flying is not the Bird type for a reason.
Water skater metamorphoses into a flying bug that no longer skates on water.
Is still Water type.
???
Learns Surf, allowing it to ferry Trainers across the ocean on its back, even though it doesn't learn Fly because it couldn't possibly carry a Trainer on its back.
?????????????????
Ye gods no. Egg group says something about a Pokemon, but typing is not that thing.
what
Does nobody realize Nincada is a Ground type because it lives underground, which neither Ninjask nor Shedinja do? And why on earth would either of them gain Earthquake, which is generally given to Pokemon that either have a mastery of ground or are so immensely strong (or perhaps heavy) they can just slam the ground to shake it, which is well beyond Ninjask and Shedinja's ability.
Not even getting into how competitively useless it would be for them.
Fair enough on Levitate, but if magnetism as a theme was enough to justify the Electric typing, wouldn't have Nosepass been Rock/Electric from the beginning?
No, it is not turning into rock. It has precious gems for some body parts, including its eyes, which is not remotely the same thing. Nor are the gems in question likely to be sufficient armor as to justify a Rock typing...
If Dark made sense it would've gotten it in Gen III. And you want to take a Pokemon with virtually perfect coverage that got banned from OU recently in spite of having a one-dimensional moveset and give it STAB on Sucker Punch?
Again, "Base Stats" is stated but no stats are provided. And why are very dapper fireflies part Fairy? And why are very dapper fireflies part Electric?
Again, a more relevant point is that the entire line is based on real bugs, specifically antlions and the dragonfly-esque creatures they metamorphose into.
Wait, Fairy=beauty? Since when? And why is a sea serpent that is pure Water normally being made part-Dragon?
I can sort of see the Normal typing, but the Dark typing is fairly arbitrary (And note that Grudge is a Ghost move, not a Dark move -the games themselves place "holds a grudge" as a Ghost concept, not a Dark concept, which makes sense given the things that are normally attributed to preventing Ghosts from moving on) and why on earth does it gain Play Rough?
It foresees disaster, that's not necessarily the same thing as "seeing the future". It's also got this yin-yang thing going on, and is trying to do right by people, and so on. Wouldn't Dark/Fairy make more sense with all that? (It even gets Play Rough naturally)
... how so? And what does angelicism have to do with the Fairy type?
I appreciate the Rock typing flavor-wise (It's always baffled me that it isn't Ice/Rock as is) but, again, the egg group makes no sense as a justification (This is a demon-faced thing that wants to be left alone) and this makes it incredibly crappy competitively, more so than it already is -Bullet Punch, die.
And how does Solid Rock make more sense than Ice Body? It's not like it's going to be more useful competitively, if that's the thought.
a fairy dies every time somebody uses this logic
What does that have to do with anything?
There has never been a single instance anywhere in the Pokemon canon of equating the Poison type to virii.
fan terms are still dumb reasons to do things
Yeah, a bird that doesn't fly. It's not the Bird type. It's the Flying type. Are we going to start removing the Flying type from Gliscor, Dragonite, the sky Pokemon Rayquaza, and every other Flying type that isn't a bird?
This sounds to me like a really weak attempt to justify giving it Close Combat STAB.
Shouldn't it be dark if we're going to focus on how it's a savage bird and all?
dark coloration does not a Dark type make
Anybody else notice that Absol is visually dominated by white, because its fur is white? You can't even tell me it's about the name of the Dark type -the original Japanese gets translated as the "evil" type- because the English version is just being kid-friendly by American standards in its choice of terminology.
The whole "aura manipulation" thing isn't Psychic. Even its telepathy isn't described as a psychic power. The aura manipulation thing is DBZ-esque "high level martial artists can literally kill people with willpower".
what
It loses its Ghost typing and keeps its Electric typing because it retains its electric nature but cannot phase the things it has possessed, where phasing into them is how it possesses them in the first place. This change is not actually logical or consistent.
And Rotom uses Formes.
They're based on the imperial regalia of Japan.
And "you, me, us".
And OK yeah their names (Even in Japanese) are in part from fantasy critters.
But they're not based on fairies.
Given the Japanese (And Chinese, for that matter, and European, and...) Dragon=imperial equivalency I'd sooner add Dragon type to them. (Thus making them all further Latis, which is painful)
fan-term bad
And no justification is even listed for Shaymin anyway. Buh?
I get where Dragon is coming from and can actually agree with it, but why Dark??
Pigs are exceptionally clean creatures that A: bath in dust (or mud) when water is unavailable, to regulate their temperature either way (They can't sweat) and B: are forbidden by Jewish creed to eat as "unclean" food. No.
Nor does being dirty in any way explain the Ground typing, nor is Emboar even based on pigs per se (TUSKS), and in fact it's probably in part influenced by Ganon's design, not to mention it's pulling from the Chinese tale "Journey to the West" for it's man-pig-ness....
This makes my brain hurt.
I will give whoever came up with this that Sacred Sword's original users all use horns, and that Keldeo's horn is basically identical to Samurott's horn.
Imma say it looks like a dragon and say we dragon type it without explanation.
why are we making the punk lizard into a dragon
Still not seeing any relevancy whatsoever.
If magnetism -oh wait, I already covered this with Probopass.
The heck does being based on a Lamprey (It's spelled with an E by the way) have to do with justifying a Poison typing. And why would anyone anywhere want to annihilate Eelektross' entire gimmick by making it not a pure Electric levitator?
None provided, makes no sense. How the heck does a bird of that construction perform a flying kick, one leg outstretched to smack into the target with great force? Why doesn't this break every bone in its body on impact, other than Pokephysics? What, is this some meta-commentary about how Americans are reckless and combative??
No justification provided, doesn't really make sense. It has some metal collars, so it's Steel typed? Does Granbull become Steel typed when I take it for a walk in a metal collar? Does any Pokemon holding an Iron Ball become Steel type??
what why
I agree this makes general sense but oh god OHKOed by Stealth Rock.
I can sort of see Mega Launcher, but why does putting a different Drive into it change its typing? If I put a DVD about the ocean into a DVD player does the DVD player turn into water?
The heck does a mime and a creepy otherworldly ballroom dancer have to do with a living musical note that sings and dances. And why on earth does it get Lunar Dance? You have to manually teach Meloetta a song to remind it of how to dance!
this makes no more sense than it did for Azumarill
There are so many Pokemon that would be Fairy typed if that's what mattered. Like Koffing.
please the entire world stop trying to add the Grass typing to the flower Fairy
More relevantly, it's an underwater squid.
But why can it swim up Waterfalls now?
No justification, which is good, because nothing could justify this.
No justification, makes no sense, makes Aurorus even crappier than ever. If you're going to give Aurorus anything, give it Electric typing because of its aurora theme and Electric movepool.
It's slime isn't toxic (just gooey -note that it gets Gooey but not Poison Point or Poison Touch or Liquid Ooze) and being friendly is a ridiculous reason to be Fairy typed for the reason I described with Vivillon.
Everything about this mystifies me. Yes, it's based on a Jack-O-Lantern, but if you look you'll notice it doesn't seem to glow with an inner fire in either evolution stage. It's just a creepy ghostly plant. And even with flame powers, why can it spew lava?
No justification provided, not even the word justification.
Not all snakes are poisonous.
Why is the psychic jet being given a typing that goes with a Pokemon that flies with actual physics?
Slugs are not poisonous.
No justification for any of these. I'm particularly baffled by Garbodor -it's a pile of trash, not a pile of recyclables. Soft trash. Like food. And garbage bags. Though really I don't get Wormadam-Trash Cloak being Poison typed, either. It's using insulation from buildings, not trash as in garbage cans -there's a reason this is its indoors form.
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Wow, that's a long list. I don't think the goal of this mod was to be super-strict regarding flavor with the typings. You're being very critical IMO and are overthinking but some of your proposals are warranted. Still brings up an interesting discussion though.
Things I agree with:
Garbodor
Aurorus
Heatmor
High Jump Kick on Braviary
Empoleon
Blaziken
Zygarde
Lava Plume on Gourgeist
Meloetta
Scizor (?)
Justification on Serperior:
Justification on Dunsparce:
As for other general things:
A couple more things to note about the OP in general:
Things I agree with:
Garbodor
Aurorus
Heatmor
High Jump Kick on Braviary
Empoleon
Blaziken
Zygarde
Lava Plume on Gourgeist
Meloetta
Scizor (?)
Justification on Serperior:
I know this is not necessarily true for all snakes, but Serperior's smugness kind of implies that it's on the sneaky side of snakes and will likely use foul play to get its way. Dark makes sense for it.Jaguar360 said:
Justification on Dunsparce:
Jaguar360 said:
On Fairy, I wouldn't mind if it was removed. It just has that mystical/angelic feel to it in a way with its tiny wings and I saw a lot of fan demand for it pre-release XY. Ground definitely should be a thing though.Jaguar360 said:
As for other general things:
- Gastrodon learns sludge moves, oozes purple liquid and certainly looks like it could be poisonous.
- Giving evolutions their original typings back is just a theme in this pet mod and makes sense for most 'mons aside from the Nins. Also why doesn't normal on Togetic make sense when it was Normal last gen?
- Beedrill is a bee Pokemon. It has wings. It learns Aerial Ace. Why doesn't Flying make sense. Pretty sure it would have been Flying before if it wasn't a Poison type.
- Pigs are generally associated with mud/dirtyness, so whether it is actually true or not, it isn't far-fetched to make Emboar Fire/Ground/Fighting. Besides, it matches the color scheme.
- Hydreigon is literally a dragon flying in the air. Why does Flying not makes sense?
- If Granbull can be a Fairy, so can Glalie and Breloom. On the other Fairy egg group members, if they don't make sense, why were they put in that egg group in the first place?
- "Imma say it looks like a dragon and say we dragon type it without explanation." If it actually looks like a Dragon, it would indeed make sense. Lilligant reallly looks like a Fairy, so it makes sense.
- How in the world is Water/Fighting Samurott ridiculous? It is a samurai, which is known for fighting fiercely in battle with swords. Not all the Sacred Sword users use their horns, as Aegislash gets it and Samurott has both swords and a glorious horn, so Sacred Sword is a perfect fit. Heck, even Secret Sword works since it hides its Swords in its armor.
- Scrafty is a reptile, learns Dragon moves like Dragon Dance and is in the Dragon egg group. Reptiles as Dragon type is generally acceptable.
- Gyarados has been used by multiple Dragon type trainers, learns plenty of Dragon moves like Outrage, Dragon Pulse and Dragon Dance, and looks like a sea Dragon. If it's a kite, then that's a great Flying type justification. That speaks nothing towards its Dragon typing whatsoever. Gyarados is probably the most justified type change in TTT.
- On Mawile, maybe GameFreak wasn't thinking how we were thinking when they designed Mawile. It has everything going for it to be a Dark type: more Dark type moves that Steel or Normal moves it its level-up movepool, it's a tricky, deceiving Pokemon, it gets all the great Dark moves like Crunch, Knock Off and Sucker Punch...I mean, are you seriously arguing this one?
- Malamar may be a squid on land, but it lives near the beach and is still a squid. As justified as Normal/Water Bibarel IMO.
- Half of Florges' moves are Grass moves, it gets a Grass movepool that no other non-Grass type does with moves like Petal Dance, Magical Leaf, Synthesis, Razor Leaf and Solarbeam. It lived on a flower through most of its life and eventually became a flower more or less.
- Uxie/Mespirit/Azelf - They are literally pixies.
- Manaphy - Water pixie.
- Shaymin - Grass pixie that can restore desolate lands to flowers and grass and is the gratitude Pokemon.
- Victini - Victory/good luck pixie.
- Celebi - TIME PIXIE that lives in a forest! Out of all of the base 100 mythical Pokemon, why you're bothered by this is the most worrisome.
- Mew - This I kind of understand, but if the other base 100s are going to be Fairy type, Mew might as well be. Besides, its a little flying pixie-like pink thing that is playful and likes to troll/play pranks. What's not Fairy about that?
- Goodra, like Gastrodon gets sludge moves and Poison Tail and is gooey and slimy. Very Poison-type esque. Fairy makes less sense, but it was also to not make it completely outclass Dragalgae and well as the whole friendly thing. Not the best fit, but somewhat satisfactory I guess.
- If Staraptor is savage, it is going to get into a lot of fights and will be very experienced with that. Fighting is fine on it.
- Fairy =/= beauty, but it is greatly associated with it and Milotic is Pokemon that calms spirits, purifying those around it in the sea in a sense. Making it Fairy is pretty justified IMO. Still more qualified than Azumarill.
- Normal on Azumarill is honestly fine both competitively and flavor-wise. Return does nothing that Waterfall + Play Rough can accomplish and if Azurill can be Normal, so can Azumarill. Also spelling mistakes happen sometimes when you are writing a ton. PMD may or may not know how to spell Azumarill.
- Being a heart fish and learning Wish isn't enough for Alomamola to qualify as Fairy-type.
- In addition to being friendly/happy, Vivillon also learns Draining Kiss and flutters around like a pixie like Navi from The Legend of Zelda series.
- Barbacle learns a few fighting moves like Cross Chop, Brick Break and Low Kick and could certainly be an efficient Karate practicioner. I'm okay with this.
- All the Rotom forms used to be Ghost type in Gen 4. Why is it suddenly illogical now? Rotom is still a Ghost whether it has invaded a washing mashine or not.
- Luxray learns quite a few Dark moves, has Intimidate which is a common ability among Dark types, and again, looks like a Dark type.
- Absol, forewarnings/future predicting abilities warrant the Psychic type, especially when you consider that Future Sight is a Psychic type move. Mega Absol's pure white wings and body give it an angelic, Fairy type look and it also has Wish, adding to the Fairy justification.
- Deoxys point about virii - just because GameFreak didn't do it before, doesn't mean it can't be done now.
- Banette and Gengar - They are both scary, mischevious Pokemon and learn a bunch of Dark type moves. What is holding them back from Dark type?
- Pinsir - It is basically like Heracross and its movepool is saturated with Fighting-type moves. We'll see in playtesting if it proves to be overpowered and maybe the Mega can remain Bug/Flying.
- Illumise and Volbeat - Mischevious, annoying little flying light things sounds like Fairy to me.
- Base stats are in progress, so that's probably why they are blank for certain Pokemon.
- Descriptions could use some more detail, but there are a ton for PMD to do, so give him some time.
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I was sicker than I realized when I made that post, so I suspect I came across as harsher than I intended. Sorry.
For reference, not everything I wrote was intended as "wait let's not do this" like...
I only objected to it getting Waterfall. Why does it get Waterfall? Waterfall in the movepool means the Pokemon can literally swim its way up a waterfall. Similarly, I agree on the Beedrill count -my point was "bees fly" is sort of irrelevant. What's relevant is that Beedrill flies. There are plenty of Pokemon inspired by things that don't do what those things do. Hippowdon is a hippo -but it hangs out in sand, not water.
I take a critical position in general because that's how you make sure you get quality work -you look for problems, and if you find them, you fix them.
Smugness=conviction of one's own serperiority. (I genuinely did not notice I was doing this when I wrote it...) It does not equate to a sneaky side of anything. It just implies that it thinks it's better than you -which ties back to its Dragon movepool and Japanese associations between Dragons and the imperial lineage, which is supposedly descended from gods and Just Better Than You.
It looks like it could be is not is. There are flies that pretend to be bees, moths that try to convince you they're owls, and more besides in nature -"looks like it could be" is not a good metric for working out Pokemon typings when they're supposed, given how much inspiration Pokemon takes from nature.
Nor do I remotely agree that it looks like it could be poisonous.
Because the biggest thing Normal is on Pokemon is "no other typing fits". It was completely replaced in Gen VI for a reason -that reason being it had only been Normal in the first place for lack of a better typing. It's not a Pokemon defined by its Normal-ness and never had been. Normal is just the label a Pokemon gets when nothing better fits. See: Arceus.
Its color scheme includes literal shining gold. What are you talking about.
Why does Sheer Force make sense, is more my issue. I wince at the generifying of "take away Levitate and give Flying" (Yet another Flying Dragon), but the main thing is "why Sheer Force". Not Intimidate, or some other "I'm a big scary/angry monster" Ability?
The egg group is not the type.
You're also going to have provide some logic for why it's "obviously more ridiculous" for Granbull to be Fairy than for Glalie and Breloom to be Fairy if you want me to take that response seriously. Granbull as Fairy makes sense to Game Freak and Glalie doesn't and they make the games. And frankly Game Freak's decisions in this case make sense to me, too.
Not to me it doesn't. That's my point -I'm illustrating that this justification is ridiculous because it's using a very vague, subjective line of reasoning. What's fairy-like about Lilligant? Its six feet???
Well, the thing is, reptiles are frequently in the Dragon egg group and learn Dragon moves, and Dragons are frequently reptilian, but the distinction clearly exists that they aren't the same thing. Arbok is pure Poison, but in the Dragon egg group. Tyranitar learns Dragon Dance, but is a kaiju. That sort of thing. Game Freak clearly considers Dragons and reptiles to be closely related, but not actually the same thing.
I feel the most justified type change is Beedrill getting Flying -keep in mind Mega Gyarados exists, changes type, and not to Dragon type. It changes to Dark type, apparently emphasizing Gyarados' tendency to rage, rampage, and indiscriminately destroy over whatever similarities to Dragons it carries.
It's also cute and innocent (Hence the Fairy typing), and fan perception as a metric is ludicrous -most fans are carrying in a bunch of preconceptions about Pokemon based on things that have nothing to do with Pokemon, and never bother to analyze whether their assumptions actually mesh with the way Pokemon presents itself. The number of Western fans who slap on the idea that "angelicism" or similar has anything to do with the Fairy type is enormous -and completely baseless.
And Mawile comes back to the point that it was originally a single-typed Pokemon. Game Freak would've made it Steel/Dark in the first place (And I guess when Gen VI came along made the Mega Steel/Fairy) if their own conception (ie the defining conception of everything Pokemon) placed Mawile as a Dark type.
The main time I would unequivocally agree with modifying the typing of a Pokemon that is (Or was) single-typed is if it's like Tri Attack -that is, Tri Attack is quite clearly a Fire/Ice/Electric attack, but due to technical limitations or game design reasons or whatever Game Freak didn't make it Fire/Ice/Electric, they made it Normal. By the same token, if a Pokemon were Normal typed (Or Psychic typed, or Dragon typed, or whatever) as a clear compromise on not being typed two out of the three types it ought to be, then I would absolutely agree with modifying its typing in this three-type project.
But anything that is or was single-typed being modified is something I'm going to particularly scrutinize -because if Game Freak made it single typed in the first place, that probably means something about what types are, regardless of what fans might feel best fits.
Again, fan-term. Fan-terms in no way justify a typing. "Pixie" isn't even about fans thinking the Mew-alikes are all particularly fairy-esque, it's a less clunky term than "Mew-alike" or "Mew clone" (Which could be confused with Mewtwo...) or whatever. It's meaningless, as regards to what makes sense for typing. You might as well argue that the Lake Trio should all be Water typed because we call them The Lake Trio.
The typing of the Mew-alikes is irrelevant to Mew (They have no in-universe relation beyond Mew's supposed all-ancestor status), Mew is derived from cats, embryos, and Psychic powers in general... the playfulness and all is basically just it being a cat at which point that's bordering on arguing every cat Pokemon should be a Fairy type when none of them are...
And what actual Fairy-typed Pokemon is a troll-ish prankster? Don't tell me Mew should be Fairy-like because the type is called Fairy type, pick out some Fairy types that actually fit the archetype you say is part of what the Fairy type is. If there aren't any, your perception of the Fairy type is broken -full stop.
Poison type Pokemon are universally poisonous or toxic or made of gross stuff outright. You aren't Poison-typed by being slimy -you're Poison typed by being poisonous or otherwise toxic. Which Goodra isn't.
-Reach level 100
-Gain Fighting type, no matter what
This is basically what you're saying. Experience in battle =/= Fighting typing. Fighting types are generally noble fighters, or at least fair, and pretty universally are either obsessed with training or are actually skilled in what would be martial arts in a human being -none of which Staraptor fits to. This still sounds like a weak attempt to justify Close Combat STAB to me, which I've seen too many fan projects leap on to think I'm just being cynical.
This comes back to "You don't understand what Game Freak means when they say Fairy and are assuming your viewpoint is more correct than the creator's viewpoint on their own work" which... I really don't know how to comment on that without being offensive, because that's just such an outrageous viewpoint.
Competitively, that's raising its neutral damage by more than 25%. You're seriously basically giving it a free Life Orb against anything that isn't Rock, Steel, or Ghost and so long as it isn't raining -and letting it rip Fire types in Sun in half without effort, when they already struggle against it even when they have Solar Beam.
Flavor-wise we again return to the point that there's a reason why the Normal typing goes away -and you can't argue that it's a two-types limit issue, because in Gen III Azurill was part Normal and Marill and Azumarill were not.
Yeah, and letting people know spelling mistakes exist helps them fix them. It's not some kind of personal attack.
I would think you're agreeing with me except the placement indicates this is sarcasm...
Seriously, name an actual reason why being heart-shaped has anything to do with justifying Fairy typing.
Pokemon is not Zelda. Nor is the Fairy type necessarily in any way related to a different video game's "fairy" creatures.
It learns moves almost anything with the general humanoid structure can learn. Most of them aren't Fighting type. I'd sooner give it Dark type -it's an angry (group of) thing(s) that is mean and angry.
Honestly that was very probably a technical limitation. If your logic held up Game Freak wouldn't have changed the typing come Gen V.
Insisting that "it looks like a Dark type" when I have explained that coloration has nothing to do with the Dark type does nothing to advance your position. It just makes it look like you weren't paying attention to what I wrote.
Intimidate, meanwhile, is common to big scary things and Pokemon pretending to be big scary things, like Masquerain. There's only three Dark type lines with Intimidate, too, which is maybe a quarter of all Intimidater lines. So, no.
Learning Dark type moves comes, again, back to physiology. Crunch is learned by basically anything with a mouth full of sharp teeth. It's not a useful commentary on their nature.
Re: future-ness. I don't particularly agree, but it can work, so whatever.
Re: wings. Wings? What wings? And, again, what does angelicism have to do with the Fairy type? This is a game made by a Japanese company! They're national religion is Shinto, not Christianity.
Let me put that another way -there have been hundreds of Pokemon, and not one single one has been a Poison type with any association with disease. It's possible that Game Freak just hasn't gotten around to it -but it's rather unlikely, given Deoxys already exists, gets called a virus, and yet isn't a Poison type. The more probable conclusion is, hey, that Poison type has nothing to do with disease.
Every Ghost type that isn't a cipher or Giratina is mean and usually scary. That's bordering on saying there is no Ghost or Dark type, there is only the Ghork type. There has to be some delineation between the Ghost and Dark type -or else they wouldn't be separate types.
How many times do I have to say that movepool is not a good indicator of sensible typing before you notice I have said it? My two objections were A: the competitive consideration and B: that there is much better logic for justifying the typing right there.
It doesn't to me and it has nothing to do with any Fairy type Pokemon that actually exists. Projecting your expectations of what the word "fairy" means onto the Pokemon world really doesn't make any sense.
EDIT: The more I think about Normal Azumarill the more horrifying it becomes.
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 169-201 (46.4 - 55.2%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO
Oh god. Not even Banded, or getting a Belly Drum off -and in all honesty I think Azumarill can basically just replace Play Rough with Return to avoid the four-move-slot problem. Dragonite with Multiscale is really the only thing that stands out to me as probably suffering from not running Play Rough...
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 105-124 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 98.4% chance to 3HKO
.. and note that this is lying because the Calculator treats Multiscale as applying to every hit. In actuality Return would be a 2HKO most of the time. And this is ignoring Belly Drum -OHKO through Multiscale at that point. Who needs to be super effective?
Meanwhile even though Play Rough actually has a chance of OHKOing via a crit with the same stats, just the 2HKO is actually only an 81% chance -because that's how likely you are to have both 90% chance hits land. That's actually less likely to 2HKO than Return/Frustration!
For reference, not everything I wrote was intended as "wait let's not do this" like...
I only objected to it getting Waterfall. Why does it get Waterfall? Waterfall in the movepool means the Pokemon can literally swim its way up a waterfall. Similarly, I agree on the Beedrill count -my point was "bees fly" is sort of irrelevant. What's relevant is that Beedrill flies. There are plenty of Pokemon inspired by things that don't do what those things do. Hippowdon is a hippo -but it hangs out in sand, not water.
I take a critical position in general because that's how you make sure you get quality work -you look for problems, and if you find them, you fix them.
Smugness=conviction of one's own serperiority. (I genuinely did not notice I was doing this when I wrote it...) It does not equate to a sneaky side of anything. It just implies that it thinks it's better than you -which ties back to its Dragon movepool and Japanese associations between Dragons and the imperial lineage, which is supposedly descended from gods and Just Better Than You.
It looks like it could be is not is. There are flies that pretend to be bees, moths that try to convince you they're owls, and more besides in nature -"looks like it could be" is not a good metric for working out Pokemon typings when they're supposed, given how much inspiration Pokemon takes from nature.
Nor do I remotely agree that it looks like it could be poisonous.
Because the biggest thing Normal is on Pokemon is "no other typing fits". It was completely replaced in Gen VI for a reason -that reason being it had only been Normal in the first place for lack of a better typing. It's not a Pokemon defined by its Normal-ness and never had been. Normal is just the label a Pokemon gets when nothing better fits. See: Arceus.
Its color scheme includes literal shining gold. What are you talking about.
Why does Sheer Force make sense, is more my issue. I wince at the generifying of "take away Levitate and give Flying" (Yet another Flying Dragon), but the main thing is "why Sheer Force". Not Intimidate, or some other "I'm a big scary/angry monster" Ability?
The egg group is not the type.
You're also going to have provide some logic for why it's "obviously more ridiculous" for Granbull to be Fairy than for Glalie and Breloom to be Fairy if you want me to take that response seriously. Granbull as Fairy makes sense to Game Freak and Glalie doesn't and they make the games. And frankly Game Freak's decisions in this case make sense to me, too.
Not to me it doesn't. That's my point -I'm illustrating that this justification is ridiculous because it's using a very vague, subjective line of reasoning. What's fairy-like about Lilligant? Its six feet???
Well, the thing is, reptiles are frequently in the Dragon egg group and learn Dragon moves, and Dragons are frequently reptilian, but the distinction clearly exists that they aren't the same thing. Arbok is pure Poison, but in the Dragon egg group. Tyranitar learns Dragon Dance, but is a kaiju. That sort of thing. Game Freak clearly considers Dragons and reptiles to be closely related, but not actually the same thing.
I feel the most justified type change is Beedrill getting Flying -keep in mind Mega Gyarados exists, changes type, and not to Dragon type. It changes to Dark type, apparently emphasizing Gyarados' tendency to rage, rampage, and indiscriminately destroy over whatever similarities to Dragons it carries.
It's also cute and innocent (Hence the Fairy typing), and fan perception as a metric is ludicrous -most fans are carrying in a bunch of preconceptions about Pokemon based on things that have nothing to do with Pokemon, and never bother to analyze whether their assumptions actually mesh with the way Pokemon presents itself. The number of Western fans who slap on the idea that "angelicism" or similar has anything to do with the Fairy type is enormous -and completely baseless.
And Mawile comes back to the point that it was originally a single-typed Pokemon. Game Freak would've made it Steel/Dark in the first place (And I guess when Gen VI came along made the Mega Steel/Fairy) if their own conception (ie the defining conception of everything Pokemon) placed Mawile as a Dark type.
The main time I would unequivocally agree with modifying the typing of a Pokemon that is (Or was) single-typed is if it's like Tri Attack -that is, Tri Attack is quite clearly a Fire/Ice/Electric attack, but due to technical limitations or game design reasons or whatever Game Freak didn't make it Fire/Ice/Electric, they made it Normal. By the same token, if a Pokemon were Normal typed (Or Psychic typed, or Dragon typed, or whatever) as a clear compromise on not being typed two out of the three types it ought to be, then I would absolutely agree with modifying its typing in this three-type project.
But anything that is or was single-typed being modified is something I'm going to particularly scrutinize -because if Game Freak made it single typed in the first place, that probably means something about what types are, regardless of what fans might feel best fits.
Again, fan-term. Fan-terms in no way justify a typing. "Pixie" isn't even about fans thinking the Mew-alikes are all particularly fairy-esque, it's a less clunky term than "Mew-alike" or "Mew clone" (Which could be confused with Mewtwo...) or whatever. It's meaningless, as regards to what makes sense for typing. You might as well argue that the Lake Trio should all be Water typed because we call them The Lake Trio.
The typing of the Mew-alikes is irrelevant to Mew (They have no in-universe relation beyond Mew's supposed all-ancestor status), Mew is derived from cats, embryos, and Psychic powers in general... the playfulness and all is basically just it being a cat at which point that's bordering on arguing every cat Pokemon should be a Fairy type when none of them are...
And what actual Fairy-typed Pokemon is a troll-ish prankster? Don't tell me Mew should be Fairy-like because the type is called Fairy type, pick out some Fairy types that actually fit the archetype you say is part of what the Fairy type is. If there aren't any, your perception of the Fairy type is broken -full stop.
Poison type Pokemon are universally poisonous or toxic or made of gross stuff outright. You aren't Poison-typed by being slimy -you're Poison typed by being poisonous or otherwise toxic. Which Goodra isn't.
-Reach level 100
-Gain Fighting type, no matter what
This is basically what you're saying. Experience in battle =/= Fighting typing. Fighting types are generally noble fighters, or at least fair, and pretty universally are either obsessed with training or are actually skilled in what would be martial arts in a human being -none of which Staraptor fits to. This still sounds like a weak attempt to justify Close Combat STAB to me, which I've seen too many fan projects leap on to think I'm just being cynical.
This comes back to "You don't understand what Game Freak means when they say Fairy and are assuming your viewpoint is more correct than the creator's viewpoint on their own work" which... I really don't know how to comment on that without being offensive, because that's just such an outrageous viewpoint.
Competitively, that's raising its neutral damage by more than 25%. You're seriously basically giving it a free Life Orb against anything that isn't Rock, Steel, or Ghost and so long as it isn't raining -and letting it rip Fire types in Sun in half without effort, when they already struggle against it even when they have Solar Beam.
Flavor-wise we again return to the point that there's a reason why the Normal typing goes away -and you can't argue that it's a two-types limit issue, because in Gen III Azurill was part Normal and Marill and Azumarill were not.
Yeah, and letting people know spelling mistakes exist helps them fix them. It's not some kind of personal attack.
I would think you're agreeing with me except the placement indicates this is sarcasm...
Seriously, name an actual reason why being heart-shaped has anything to do with justifying Fairy typing.
Pokemon is not Zelda. Nor is the Fairy type necessarily in any way related to a different video game's "fairy" creatures.
It learns moves almost anything with the general humanoid structure can learn. Most of them aren't Fighting type. I'd sooner give it Dark type -it's an angry (group of) thing(s) that is mean and angry.
Honestly that was very probably a technical limitation. If your logic held up Game Freak wouldn't have changed the typing come Gen V.
Insisting that "it looks like a Dark type" when I have explained that coloration has nothing to do with the Dark type does nothing to advance your position. It just makes it look like you weren't paying attention to what I wrote.
Intimidate, meanwhile, is common to big scary things and Pokemon pretending to be big scary things, like Masquerain. There's only three Dark type lines with Intimidate, too, which is maybe a quarter of all Intimidater lines. So, no.
Learning Dark type moves comes, again, back to physiology. Crunch is learned by basically anything with a mouth full of sharp teeth. It's not a useful commentary on their nature.
Re: future-ness. I don't particularly agree, but it can work, so whatever.
Re: wings. Wings? What wings? And, again, what does angelicism have to do with the Fairy type? This is a game made by a Japanese company! They're national religion is Shinto, not Christianity.
Let me put that another way -there have been hundreds of Pokemon, and not one single one has been a Poison type with any association with disease. It's possible that Game Freak just hasn't gotten around to it -but it's rather unlikely, given Deoxys already exists, gets called a virus, and yet isn't a Poison type. The more probable conclusion is, hey, that Poison type has nothing to do with disease.
Every Ghost type that isn't a cipher or Giratina is mean and usually scary. That's bordering on saying there is no Ghost or Dark type, there is only the Ghork type. There has to be some delineation between the Ghost and Dark type -or else they wouldn't be separate types.
How many times do I have to say that movepool is not a good indicator of sensible typing before you notice I have said it? My two objections were A: the competitive consideration and B: that there is much better logic for justifying the typing right there.
It doesn't to me and it has nothing to do with any Fairy type Pokemon that actually exists. Projecting your expectations of what the word "fairy" means onto the Pokemon world really doesn't make any sense.
EDIT: The more I think about Normal Azumarill the more horrifying it becomes.
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 169-201 (46.4 - 55.2%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO
Oh god. Not even Banded, or getting a Belly Drum off -and in all honesty I think Azumarill can basically just replace Play Rough with Return to avoid the four-move-slot problem. Dragonite with Multiscale is really the only thing that stands out to me as probably suffering from not running Play Rough...
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 105-124 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 98.4% chance to 3HKO
.. and note that this is lying because the Calculator treats Multiscale as applying to every hit. In actuality Return would be a 2HKO most of the time. And this is ignoring Belly Drum -OHKO through Multiscale at that point. Who needs to be super effective?
Meanwhile even though Play Rough actually has a chance of OHKOing via a crit with the same stats, just the 2HKO is actually only an 81% chance -because that's how likely you are to have both 90% chance hits land. That's actually less likely to 2HKO than Return/Frustration!
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My suggestions:
Voltorb/Electrode > Electric/Steel (they look just as metal as Magnemite line, would contrast nicely with the slower Magnemite line)
Grovyle > Grass/Dragon
Dewott > Water/Fighting
Since the secondary type in these gens got added at the middle stage (as in Combusken, Marshtomp, and Pignite), then these should follow as well.
White Kyurem > Dragon/Ice/Fire
Makes sense because it is merged into Reshiram.
Empoleon > Water/Steel/Ice
Penguins are associated with icy environments; this makes more sense than Flying, because penguins don't fly.
Voltorb/Electrode > Electric/Steel (they look just as metal as Magnemite line, would contrast nicely with the slower Magnemite line)
Grovyle > Grass/Dragon
Dewott > Water/Fighting
Since the secondary type in these gens got added at the middle stage (as in Combusken, Marshtomp, and Pignite), then these should follow as well.
White Kyurem > Dragon/Ice/Fire
Makes sense because it is merged into Reshiram.
Empoleon > Water/Steel/Ice
Penguins are associated with icy environments; this makes more sense than Flying, because penguins don't fly.
I know it's not as popular, but why not give Kyurem-White the Fire typing it would logically get from fusing with Reshiram?
This thread hasn't been posted in in nearly a year and a half. The operator has been gone nearly as long. Locking.
I'm gonna make a thread momentarily on the state of necro-bumps and whatnot. Stay tuned kids
- Status