Pokémon Thundurus (ORAS OU Revamped)

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WECAMEASROMANS

Banned deucer.
Approved by AM

Thundurus #642
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Electric Flying
Base stats: 79/115/70/125/80/111

ABILITIES:
Prankster: Non-damaging moves have their priority increased by one level.
Defiant: Boosts Attack by two stages for every stat drop.

NOTABLE COMPETITIVE MOVES: (only moves worth using)
Bold indicates STAB
- Bulk up
- Dark Pulse
- Discharge
- Fly
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power Flying
- Hidden Power Ice
- Knock Off
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Rain Dance
- Substitute
- Superpower
- Taunt
- Thunder
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Wild Charge

GENERAL OVERVIEW: Say hello to one of the most powerful offensive threats in the OU metagame. Thundurus has been a top tier pokemon offensively ever since its unbanning from the Ubers tier in early XY and continues to be a dominating presence even in the current ORAS metagame. Thundurus has everything it needs to excel for its typical offensive role: two amazing abilities, a deep movepool allowing it to hit the vast majority of the OU metagame for incredible coverage, good support utility options, excellent attacking STABs as well as boosting moves, above average attacking stats from both ends of the spectrum, and a trolly, fast base 111 speed enabling it to outpace most of the unboosted tier. Because of its incredible unpredictability and high attacking stats, there is virtually no single pokemon that can claim to counter all Thundurus sets.

Despite all this, Thundurus is not without its shortcomings. It's 79/70/80 defensive stats leave something to be desired, a flaw made even more noticeable when you consider the fact that its weak to Stealth Rock and commonly utilizes Life Orb to chip away its health even faster. It takes considerable damage from almost any neutral attack, even from common defensive pokemon. Also, although there are no true counters to every single Thundurus set, there will always be certain pokemon that can counter each individual set, so it has to choose which pokemon it wants to beat and which pokemon it wants to get walled by. Finally, its base 111 speed, while still very fast, makes it outsped by some even faster, offensive pokemon such as Starmie, Mega Lopunny, Excadrill in sand, scarfers such as Landorus-t, etc.

NOTABLE SETS:

Nasty Plot + Thunder Wave

Thundurus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 24 HP | 232 SpAtk | 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk | 30 Def
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Thunder Wave
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice | Hidden Power Flying

This set is a beautiful blend of both Thundurus' support utility and offensive capability. Prankster Thunder Wave is incredibly useful and clutch for any offensive team, as the ability to paralyze fast attackers (Mega Lopunny, Tornadus-T) and numerous boosting sweepers (Mega Altaria, Zard-X) is usually much too good to pass up. Besides paralyzing faster, troublesome pokemon, this set also has the ability to sweep teams late game with a nasty plot boost. +2 STAB thunderbolt from base 125 SpAtk hits incredibly hard, straight up KOing even bulky pokemon such as Mega Metagross:
+2 232 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 259-306 (86 - 101.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
For the last and final moveslot, hidden power ice is usually the preferred option to have your typical pseudo boltbeam coverage as well as hitting the various pokemon commonly seen in OU that are 4x weak to ice such as Garchomp and Landorus. However, Hidden Power Flying is also a very useful alternative that allows you to bait and kill otherwise annoying pokemon such as Mega Venusaur, AV Tangrowth, and Mega Heracross. 24 HP EVs gives you 305 HP, a 16 +1 leftovers number. If you are using HP Flying, use 28 HP EVs. Max Spe is necessary and the rest goes to SpAtk.

Nasty Plot + 3 Attacks

Thundurus @ Leftovers | Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 24 HP | 232 SpAtk | 252 Spe OR
4 Def | 252 SpAtk | 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk | 30 Def
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Ice | Hidden Power Flying

A common problem of the Thunder Wave + NP set is that even after you get a nasty plot boost, you are unable to break common defensive pokemon that either resist electric or have enough bulk to take one anyway. These usually include Ferrothorn, Heatran, Excadrill, and support Tyranitar. By replacing Thunder Wave with Focus Blast, you remedy this problem, although the support utility of prankster thunder wave will surely be missed. All the aforementioned pokemon are KOed by +2 focus blast, no longer hindering your sweep. Both leftovers and life orb can be used as your item of choice. Leftovers is generally the preferred item, as it offers you much needed survivability. Even without life orb, you KO all of those pokemon anyways. However, life orb is also a cool option that enables you to be one of the hardest hitting attackers in the tier. For instance, Latios is koed by +2 HP Ice 100% of the time, even without stealth rock. The first spread is what you want to use if you are using leftovers, as you get a leftovers + 1 number with the HP investment. The second spread is what you would use if you are using life orb, as there is no reason to run a leftovers number. In addition, running no HP EVs lets you hit 299 HP, which is coincidentally a life orb number. 4 EVs are placed in defense to check birdspam slightly better. Both abilities are pretty useless for this set but defiant is used to potentially trick the opponent into thinking you're a physical set if they ever accidentally drop one of your stats.

Thunder Wave + 3 Attacks

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk | 30 Def
Naive (+Spe, -SpDef) OR Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Superpower | Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Ice

This is the standard Prankster attacking Thundurus set. This set forgoes the boosting potential of Nasty Plot in exchange to hit hard right off the bat with Life Orb. At the same time, Thunder Wave is still necessary for emergency situations where you need to disable a boosting sweeper or to slow down an offensive pokemon that can otherwise tear through your team. LO Thundurus hits pretty hard even without a nasty plot boost. For instance, it outright KOes Gengar after SR and has a solid chance to KO Mega Diancie after SR as well.
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Diancie: 191-226 (79.2 - 93.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Superpower is usually the preferred move on the third slot for various reasons. Other then not having to worry about missing half the time, Superpower nails AV Ttar, Heatran, and Chansey. However, Focus Blast is also a very feasible option, allowing you to hit Ferrothorn harder than focus blast while also not taking iron barbs damage, and not requiring you to run a -SpDef nature.

Defiant Attacker

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 76 Atk | 180 SpA | 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Thunderbolt
- Superpower
- Grass Knot | Hidden Power Ice

This Thundurus set completely destroys many balanced and defensive cores you commonly see in ORAS today. The premise is simple: you switch in Thundurus against a pokemon likely to use Defog, such as Latios, and get +2 attack. Even without a Defiant boost, this set is able to put massive amounts of pressure on defensive teams since it utilizes high powered attacks from both sides of the spectrum. Knock off takes care of the Latis and Chansey who would normally switch into Thundurus. Knock off in general is a really solid move to just spam when you're not sure what the opponent will do, since you can easily render your opponent's Thundurus check useless by knocking off their item (i.e knocking off a choice scarf from tyranitar). Superpower KOes Ferrothorn and Heatran at +2 as well as Chansey after Eviolite has been knocked off. Thunderbolt is still used instead of Wild Charge to hit bulky waters harder if you haven't gotten a defiant boost, such as Slowbro. On the last moveslot, Hidden Power Ice is usually used to provide pseudo boltbeam coverage. However, the current popularity of Hippowdon is staggering. When your opponent notices that you are running mixed Thundurus, they more often than not will hastily send in Hippowdon to wall you. Grass Knot is an excellent way to bait and then KO the hippowdon.
180 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 356-421 (84.7 - 100.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
In addition to beating Hippowdon, Grass Knot also lures in Quagsire who thinks it can wall Defiant sets. Another useful aspect of Grass Knot is that you can KO Swampert turn 1 in rain if it hasn't mega evolved yet. It also hits the rare but annoying Gastrodon. 72 Attack EVs are used to KO Latios with Knock off after one round of Stealth Rock.

Substitute

Thundurus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 24 HP | 232 SpA | 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk | 30 Def
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot | Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice | Hidden Power Flying

One of the more interesting options you could run on Thundurus is substitute. Thanks to the coveted Prankster ability, Thundurus is able to make priority substitutes even against faster opponents. Substitute helps in a whole variety of situations. For example, many people rely on specially defensive Jirachi with Toxic as their Thundurus check. Substitute safeguards you from status, and if you're running Nasty Plot, you can even set up on it! Substitute + Nasty Plot also allows you to set up on pokemon such as Toxic Hippowdon. Another useful aspect of prankster substitute is the current soaring popularity of Scarf Landorus-T, which can scare out Thundurus with Stone Edge or can U-turn if it switches out. Substitute no longer creates those 50/50 scenarios in which you have to guess which move its going to use, as you sub first and u-turn cannot break your sub. If you're desperate enough, you can also keep Subbing until their Stone Edge eventually misses, then KO them with HP Ice as they break your sub. Substitute aids you against Sucker Punch Bisharp, which often will try and revenge kill you after you get Nasty Plot boosts. For the second moveslot, Nasty Plot is generally the superior option as it allows you to set up on status users such as Jirachi, but Thunder Wave is also a solid option; Thundurus will have more opportunities to use Substitute against a paralyzed opponent since they have a 1/4 chance to not attack at all.

Taunt Attacker

Thundurus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 24 HP | 232 SpA | 252 Spe
IVs 0 Atk | 30 Def
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave | Nasty Plot
- Hidden Power Ice | Hidden Power Flying

With Prankster Taunt, Thundurus can be extremely annoying for the opponent particularly if they are running a more defensive team. Taunt shuts down many pokemon that would usually try to switch in on Thundurus, such as Ferrothorn, rendering it useless as you get a free switch into something that can deal with it better. Taunt also prevents Pokemon from healing, so you can Thunderbolt a Clefable as it switches in you, Taunt it as it fails to use Softboiled, then 2HKO the Clefable with Thunderbolt. Other examples of this are against weakened Venusaur who desperately needs to use Synthesis or Chansey which tries to get a Wish off to help her teammates. The third slot is up to the user and is completely team dependent: Thunder Wave lets Thundurus be more of a support option to help aid the team, while Nasty Plot in conjunction with Taunt allows you to set up on common defensive pokemon, such as Hippowdon without Stone Edge/Rock Slide.

Other options:

A pure physical set with Defiant of Knock off, Superpower, Wild Charge, and Fly can be used; however, the mixed Defiant set is usually better, as you are able to hit hard with both attack stats. If you are unable to get a Defiant boost, Thunderbolt actually hits most of your intended targets harder since Thundurus has a higher special attack stat. You also fail to pose a threat to bulky ground types such as Landorus-t and Gliscor.

A bulk up set can also be viable, boosting Thundurus' already high attack stat and its frail defense simultaneously. I haven't tested it much out yet, but a Bulk up + Taunt/Sub set sounds like it could work, since it allows you to set up on defensive pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Celebi.

Sludge Wave is an option if you need a desperate answer to Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Altaria, but outside of hitting fairies, it isn't very useful. Azumarill and Togekiss are already destroyed by Thunderbolt, and it's not like the aforementioned pokemon are going to like tanking Nasty Plot boosted attacks anyways.

Checks and Counters

Because of its incredible versatility and the number of different sets it can run, there virtually are no Pokemon that can fully counter Thundurus. There are, however, plenty of checks to Thundurus, as each set is beaten by different pokemon. Mega Venusaur is one of the best Thundurus checks available, as it can pretty much wall the majority of attacks Thundurus throws at it. However, many Thundurus pack HP Flying to lure Mega Venusaur, and after a Nasty Plot, it can be KOed. Even + 0 LO HP Flying can 2HKO it.

Another solid check to Thundurus is Mega Charizard X. However, being such an offensive pokemon and how popular the DD variant is, it loathes Prankster Thunder Wave which pretty much renders it useless vs any offensive team afterwards. Not to mention, a +2 Focus Blast can KO Mega Zard X after SR.

Assault Vest Raikou is an excellent Thundurus check as well, since it resists Thundurus' STAB, tanks its special attacks, and outspeeds and attacks it first. However, it cannot handle physical variants of Thundurus at all, since Knock off + Superpower KOes it.

Thundurus' main issue is its fraility and weakness to SR. Versions that have Life Orb are easy to chip it away to the point where moderately powerful priority attacks can KO it. Any pokemon that can tank a hit can do huge damage in return, such as Metagross with Zen Headbutt. Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Landorus-t scare it off with Stone Edge and can Pursuit or U-turn respectively if they think its going to switch. Jolly SD Talonflame with Flare Blitz is an excellent Thundurus lure since it outspeeds and KOes Thundurus at +2.

Happy discussing!
 
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Nice- also the formatting is really neat, with the external links to its type pages on bulbapedia and stuff. Anyways, I think for thunderus to work most effectively, it should more or less just run either a sweeper OR a support- rather than attempt to do both. NP+ Twave, while it has the possibility to sweep, seems redundant to me. Often, you'll be sacking thundy to paralyze their sweeper, so nasty plot would seem kinda redundant. It doesn't help your momentum, which offense/HO are hugely reliant upon, and you won't find many opurtunities to set up, given, 1., the fast pace of the meta, and 2., the prevalence of things that can check it like exca, especially considering its only special flying STAB is HP Flying. All because Gamefreak wanted to give Tornadus the illusion that it was just as loved ask the other two.
 
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Shouldn't the NP 3 attacks set have Prankster>Defiant, as it has no physical moves?

Bummer Edit: SINFUL DESIRES wrote why at the end of the set explanation:
Both abilities are pretty useless for this set but defiant is used to potentially trick the opponent into thinking you're a physical set if they ever accidentally drop one of your stats.
 
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Shouldn't the NP 3 attacks set have Prankster>Defiant, as it has no physical moves?

Doesn't really matter, it'll never make any real difference.

Anyway, something I was toying around with a while back was Sub NP Salac berry. It allows you to Sub up on Scarf Lando-T's Stone Edge and Scarf Keldeo's Hydro/Scald/HP Ice until your Salac activates, and out speed afterwards. Was pretty cool.

Editing this in here for Dee Train: like I said, it'll never make a difference in an in-battle situation. The chances of you being up against a regular Sableye (and it staying in), or like the one relevant Taunt user that is faster than Thund (Azelf) is minimal.
 
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I feel like you should maybe put psychic under the other options section as it does the exact same amount of damage as HP flying, even after HP flying's stab boosts, and it can be helpful if you want to run HP ice instead of HP flying.
 
Doesn't really matter, it'll never make any real difference.

Anyway, something I was toying around with a while back was Sub NP Salac berry. It allows you to Sub up on Scarf Lando-T's Stone Edge and Scarf Keldeo's Hydro/Scald/HP Ice until your Salac activates, and out speed afterwards. Was pretty cool.

Nitpick but prankster WOULD matter/be beneficial v.s opposing prankster users with taunt or faster taunt users
 
Nitpick but prankster WOULD matter/be beneficial v.s opposing prankster users with taunt or faster taunt users
On the other hand, neither ability is all that beneficial- if you run defiant, on the other hand, you can bluff a physical attacker, and they aren't likely to attempt to taunt once you have recieved the boost from defog, they're more likely to switch in a physical wall or something anyways since they don't know you're actually running NP. Then you could get a nasty plot boost anyways in the next turn. The only problem is if you get phazed out, but you could still possibly run taunt. It may not be that great, however, if played right, it could work.

(I know it sounds dumb, but before you flame me, I would like to remind that, other than faster/ prankster taunt, running prankster is kinda useless as well.)
 
I'm sure no one cares, but prankster NP stops stuff from taunting you, such as custap Skarm, before you can NP, while defiant can bluff a physical set, it also makes you weak to foul play users. I prefer prankster on NP 3 attacks sets as safety>bluffing IMO, but you can use either. There's no need for further comment, as stated a few times it isn't very important.
 
On the other hand, neither ability is all that beneficial- if you run defiant, on the other hand, you can bluff a physical attacker, and they aren't likely to attempt to taunt once you have recieved the boost from defog, they're more likely to switch in a physical wall or something anyways since they don't know you're actually running NP. Then you could get a nasty plot boost anyways in the next turn. The only problem is if you get phazed out, but you could still possibly run taunt. It may not be that great, however, if played right, it could work.

(I know it sounds dumb, but before you flame me, I would like to remind that, other than faster/ prankster taunt, running prankster is kinda useless as well.)


If your running nasty plot and no physicaly attacks run prankster... that scenario is very situational and less likely than a prankster taunt/ faster taunt....... NEITHER ability is great on NP 3 attacks thundy dont get me wrong... but prankster has some applications while defiant has none excpet for the small bluff factor.
 
If your running nasty plot and no physicaly attacks run prankster... that scenario is very situational and less likely than a prankster taunt/ faster taunt....... NEITHER ability is great on NP 3 attacks thundy dont get me wrong... but prankster has some applications while defiant has none excpet for the small bluff factor.
Yeah, I'm just saying, both are pretty situational. There's very little reason to run either one.
 
Any mention of this old set:

Life Orb, Naive, Prankster
252 Speed, 76 Attack, 180 Special Attack
Thunderbolt
Knock Off
Superpower
Thunder Wave

This set offers some awesome utility with Superpower to surprise checks such as t-tar and chansey. Attack evs make sure Lati@s are beaten with Knock Off. Thunderbolt is a great attack in general and can be used in the early game to bluff a special set. Lastly, Thunder Wave is just a great emergency attack in general. This set fails against bulky grounds but makes up for it by beating many switch ins and just crushing Lati@s.
 
What about Psychic set?

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 228 SpA / 28 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt

Max speed for Specs Keldeo and the 350 speed mons (Gengar, MegaGross, Lati@s...)

228 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 208-247 (57.1 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

228 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Psychic vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 309-367 (117.4 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

228 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lopunny: 126-149 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
 
What about Psychic set?

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 228 SpA / 28 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Taunt

Max speed for Specs Keldeo and the 350 speed mons (Gengar, MegaGross, Lati@s...)

228 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 208-247 (57.1 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

228 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Psychic vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 309-367 (117.4 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

228 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lopunny: 126-149 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
What are those 28 SpD EVs for? Avoiding any particular OHKO?

That said, Psychic is very much an option, but its targets outside of SE mons are usually hits hard enough by T-Bolt or a more common coverage option.
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gengar: 235-278 (90.7 - 107.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 257-304 (94.8 - 112.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 192-227 (70.8 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 343-406 (126.5 - 149.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So Psychic is usually best used as a lure for targets like Venusaur.
 
What are those 28 SpD EVs for? Avoiding any particular OHKO?

allows him to survive to some things even after Stealth Rock that he normally would not survive, like Hyper Voice from M-Altaria

also turns Sp. Def Heatran's lava plume into a 3HKO instead of a possibly 2HKO

the 24 faulting EVs on Sp. Atk don't really make some great difference since most of Thundurus attacks are a Solid 2HKO or 1HKO on most of the offensive mons independent of these 24 EVs

so i think they can be better used on the defensive side.
 
Minor nitpick here but wouldn't you rather use Hidden Power Flying over Psychic for Venesuar and Lopunny? You hit a similar range of mons with an attack with slightly higher BP after factoring STAB.

Psychic doesn't take up a Hidden Power moveslot and does the same damage to the aforementioned Mons (STAB HP Flying is the same BP as Psychic).

Edit: lol my bad, I thought I saw 3 attacks on that set fsr >_< I need to sleep lol
 
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His set didn't have Hidden Power though. If you're running a two attacks set with Psychic you might as well run HP Flying.
 
Defiant is actually a worse ability on NP + 3 attacks Thundurus. Here's why:

Although both abilities are pretty much useless for this set, Prankster is still better because netting a x1.5 Atk boost from intimidate or something now increases confusion and Foul Play damage. You have no physical attacks anyway, so it is only a bad thing to get the boost in case you get confused or hit with Foul Play.

Also, if you're like me and you RNG'd this set in pokemon white, Prankster is also better because you can always give it T-Wave via TM instead of Hidden Power or something :)
 
Would a taunt, nasty plot +2 attacks thundurus work?

In theory, thundurus can use that beautiful priority taunt and shut down leads such as klefki, ferrothorn, and some set up sweepers from setting up. It then proceeds with a nasty plot to up its attacking prowess.

I don't know if this can actually work though. So far it is working decently for me.
 
Would a taunt, nasty plot +2 attacks thundurus work?

In theory, thundurus can use that beautiful priority taunt and shut down leads such as klefki, ferrothorn, and some set up sweepers from setting up. It then proceeds with a nasty plot to up its attacking prowess.

I don't know if this can actually work though. So far it is working decently for me.

Yes, this set can work, and it's also the last set in the OP....
 
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