Tier Shift

[nightsitter]

Gorebyss hello? Gorebyss is an absolute BEAST in tier shift it can smashpass just smash and sweep or even both, amazing mon one of the best in the tier. Also one mon i have had my sights set on is dugtrio. All dugtrio wanted was some extra firepower and it got that along with the bulk to survive a few more hits it is still frail but it is really improved. On yet another note we were talking about unbanning ubers and giving them -20 in the om room and it seems like a good idea imo, deoxys a has 0 defenses literally lol.

If Ubers were allowed, there would need to be a minimum base stat. As it is the lowest seen in game (bar Shedinja's special case of 1 HP), I vote that the cap should be 5. The only issue I see is with the banned mega stones. If the same policies regarding low-tiered pokemon with banned mega stones remain in place, then the NU Kanga could mega-evolve into a behemoth with 120/140/115/75/115/115 base stats and Parental Bond (producing essentially 235 base attack when using a jolly nature). Something would need to change, because not even Furfrou is walling that at +2 attack. The following calculation is with the TS BSTs:

+2 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Furfrou: 228-268 (59.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Aside from that (and potentially Mega-Gengar, though that's far less of a problem), the ubers with -20 idea sounds pretty cool. Now that I think about it, the Mega Mewtwos could also potentially be broken. All of this would have to be tested, of course, but these were just my first thoughts

 

[Throbulator36]

Gorebyss hello? Gorebyss is an absolute BEAST in tier shift it can smashpass just smash and sweep or even both, amazing mon one of the best in the tier. Also one mon i have had my sights set on is dugtrio. All dugtrio wanted was some extra firepower and it got that along with the bulk to survive a few more hits it is still frail but it is really improved. On yet another note we were talking about unbanning ubers and giving them -20 in the om room and it seems like a good idea imo, deoxys a has 0 defenses literally lol.

That suggestion seems interesting, although some would still be broken, I think.

 

[Throbulator36]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/tiershift-127497413
I believe this demonstrates the effect hax can have on a match.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

105/135/90/75/75/60
(Such tank, much stronk, very intimidate, wow!)
After Intimidate, Max HP Granbull is about as physically bulky as standard Skarmory, with a good defensive typing and the attack stat of Metagross. She also has a really good movepool to back it up, with STAB Play Rough, EQ, CC/Drain Punch, Crunch/Payback, the Elemental Punches, and great support moves like Heal Bell, Roar, Taunt, and Thunder Wave.

105/110/110/85/105/85
Poliwrath is most famous for it's ability to spread burns with Scald and phaze with Circle Throw while staying healthy with RestTalk. In TS, it can do that even better thanks to its boosted bulk. It also has other underutilized support moves like Encore and Haze, and good enough offenses to run Bulk Up or Swift Swim sets.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Also by the looks of it, it seems that most people are either running offense or stall, and nothing really in between, well at least the good teams I've seen . . . It's not impossible to prepare for most things by relying on only offensive or defensive checks however, so that's probably why stall and offense are so good at the moment. Trying to prepare for it offensively and defensively with balance just seems really hard. However, I'm sure their's a way to do it. There are so many good defensive Pokemon in this meta compared to the vast amount of good offensive ones. Why mix the two when you can just go all out though lol.

This is one point on which I would have to disagree with you. I've seen several successful balanced teams so far -- I use one myself -- and they have very much potential in this metagame. While full stall can use a bunch of impressive walls, they also have to deal with brutal stallbreakers that were buffed by the tier shift, like CM Sigilyph, CM Reuniclus, Gothitelle/Gothorita, and so on. Conversely, pure offense is hindered by the plethora of viable walls, as well as revenge killers (particularly Ditto!). Balanced teams are able to use sweepers, stallbreakers, walls, and revenge killers, which makes them more versatile and thus, less likely to be shut down by specific threats.

But yeah, I'll reserve definitive judgment about the meta until I see it develop. There are a lot of things yet to be experimented and explored.

 

[Ranger Mike]

105/135/90/75/75/60
(Such tank, much stronk, very intimidate, wow!)
After Intimidate, Max HP Granbull is about as physically bulky as standard Skarmory, with a good defensive typing and the attack stat of Metagross. She also has a really good movepool to back it up, with STAB Play Rough, EQ, CC/Drain Punch, Crunch/Payback, the Elemental Punches, and great support moves like Heal Bell, Roar, Taunt, and Thunder Wave.

105/110/110/85/105/85
Poliwrath is most famous for it's ability to spread burns with Scald and phaze with Circle Throw while staying healthy with RestTalk. In TS, it can do that even better thanks to its boosted bulk. It also has other underutilized support moves like Encore and Haze, and good enough offenses to run Bulk Up or Swift Swim sets.

Granbull does sound interesting maybe it could be the new conkeldurr(aka av user) but hates status unlike conkeldurr.
Edit: Granbull doesnt get drain punch much lie.

 

[Qwilphish]

Easily my favorite set is this one

Shedinja @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- X-Scissor

Shedinja walls so much shit its hilarious, and with Substitute the opponent has to hit Shedinja twice with a Super-Effective move in order to knock it out, at which point Shedinja can either hit with X-Scissor + Sneak or can burn the opponent. Considering how super easy it is for Shedinja to get a free Substitute up, this set is very effective.

 

[eriados]

Easily my favorite set is this one

Seeing as Shedinja tends to force switches I think Baton Pass is worth considering in there.

 

[PokemonMasterDebater]

Granbull does sound interesting maybe it could be the new conkeldurr(aka av user) but hates status unlike conkeldurr.
Edit: Granbull doesnt get drain punch much lie.

Wow, very apologize. I also forgot it got Super Fang, which is a great move.

 

[Adrian Marin]

So after a ton of trial and error, I finally made a team with a great amount of success so far:

Hide

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Psyshock
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball
- Recover

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: null Spd
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch
- Low Kick

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Heat Wave
- Air Slash

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
- Trick Room
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: NaN Atk / 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Recover
- Toxic
- Tri Attack

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

For a Trick Room team, this team has a surprisingly decent defensive structure. I might change Cofagrigrus to Tangrowth or someone else but overall, I can say with confidence that Trick Room is very, very powerful in this meta.

 

[Ranger Mike]

So after a ton of trial and error, I finally made a team with a great amount of success so far:

Hide

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Psyshock
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball
- Recover

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: null Spd
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch
- Low Kick

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Calm Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Heat Wave
- Air Slash

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
- Trick Room
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: NaN Atk / 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Recover
- Toxic
- Tri Attack

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Stealth Rock
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

For a Trick Room team, this team has a surprisingly decent defensive structure. I might change Cofagrigrus to Tangrowth or someone else but overall, I can say with confidence that Trick Room is very, very powerful in this meta.

Seconding that this team is good, near impossible to kill though O.O As for the change to tangrowth maybe something like whimsicott because it has nearly all the tools that tangrowth has bar offensive presence and trades bulk for prankster and stuff like memento which is invaluable for setting up a trickroom or a boost. Also it has prankster trick room and imo trick room teams should have 3 setters.

 

[Zewwok]

Prankster trick room is still -6 priority. The only things you will achieve are outspeeding other pokes using trick room and get in the same bracket as phasing moves.

 

[Talpr0ne]

For guys talking about dropping ubers we can check their stats for having a clearer idea.

Hide

Using a -15 nerf because we won't have to deal with 0 (SP)Def base Deoxys-Attack lol

105/105/105/105/105/105

65/105/55/95/55/65 (N) 65/145/65/115/65/85 (M) lol

55/75/75/120/75/110

35/165/5/165/5/135

35/135735/135/35/135

85/105/105/135/85/75

85/135/125/85/75/75

56/105/80/105/80/84

135/85/105/85/105/75

135/105/85/105/85/75

91/115/75/95/139/75

85/85/75/135/125/75

110/105/75/155/85/80

91/75/115/75/139/95

91/95/75/139/75/115 (N) 91/175/85/139/75/115 (M-X) 91/135/55/179/105/125 (M-Y)

75/105/85/135/105/85

90/135/75/135/75/80

85/105/85/135/105/75

85/87/60/105/60/112

111/116/80/116/83/84

111/116/80/116/83/84

85/135/105/105/85/75

Hide

They don't look that unmanageable tbh. But ofc there is the issue about what should we do with banned Megastone in case we drop ubers.

 

[Ranger Mike]

Agreeing with this, but it goes without say that we ban the mewtwonites, mons that are really good but not completely crippled include but are not limited to: kyurem w, arceus-all, kyogre could still be really good even without speed sub cm could become huge, palkia, dialga, maybe skymin, reshiram, and lugia. If they are too powerful we can always go -20.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Agreeing with this, but it goes without say that we ban the mewtwonites, mons that are really good but not completely crippled include but are not limited to: kyurem w, arceus-all, kyogre could still be really good even without speed sub cm could become huge, palkia, dialga, maybe skymin, reshiram, and lugia. If they are too powerful we can always go -20.

Mega Mewtwo Y would just be a lesser Mega Alakazam tbh, and i'm not too convinced on the brokenness of M2X either.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Agreeing with this, but it goes without say that we ban the mewtwonites, mons that are really good but not completely crippled include but are not limited to: kyurem w, arceus-all, kyogre could still be really good even without speed sub cm could become huge, palkia, dialga, maybe skymin, reshiram, and lugia. If they are too powerful we can always go -20.

Rain teams would be even more fearsome than they are now, since they could use Kyogre as a backup Drizzle inducer. The prospect of those teams being able to fire Water Spouts off 135 base special attack is scary as hell, and it could centralize the meta.

That said, it doesn't hurt to experiment, and we could always switch back to what we have now if we find that we don't like the change. Another thing we could do -- PureQuestion made this suggestion last gen -- is to create a separate Tier Shift Ubers ladder, where Uber Pokes have a +0 boost, OU Pokes gain a +5 boost, etc.

 

[Throbulator36]

Rain teams would be even more fearsome than they are now, since they could use Kyogre as a backup Drizzle inducer. The prospect of those teams being able to fire Water Spouts off 135 base special attack is scary as hell, and it could centralize the meta.

That said, it doesn't hurt to experiment, and we could always switch back to what we have now if we find that we don't like the change. Another thing we could do -- PureQuestion made this suggestion last gen -- is to create a separate Tier Shift Ubers ladder, where Uber Pokes have a +0 boost, OU Pokes gain a +5 boost, etc.

I think it should start at +10 for ou
ps. Kanga would be broken as hell there.

 

[Throbulator36]

I dunno if anyone has mentioned this but quiverpass moth gets +5 and Dustox(while worse) is also viable with quiverpass now.

 

[Ranger Mike]

I dunno if anyone has mentioned this but quiverpass moth gets +5 and Dustox(while worse) is also viable with quiverpass now.

do you mean masquerein? Dustox does not get quiverpass.

 

[Throbulator36]

do you mean masquerein? Dustox does not get quiverpass.

I guess so. I just assumed all dose bugs got it.

 

[dwarfstar]

Venomoth also gets the combination of Quiver Dance and Baton Pass; that's the one that gets +5 across the board under the current system (it's BL, and we haven't done the +2 thing like we did with BL last gen). Masquerain, being NU, would get +15.

 

[thdhted]

alright so, after significant testing, I have concluded that rampardos is a monster. Here, have a calc.
252 Atk Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 183-216 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery.
that is vs. Arguably the best physical wall in the tier. Give this guy a scarf, sheer force and earthquake (maybe fire punch too) and he is set to go.
also, scarf kyurem is a fantastic cleaner, able to make quick work of any weakened team with a STAB ice beam.

 

[Throbulator36]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/tiershift-128194030
wow, much sweep, much reap, very win, wow.
Edit: dis one too http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/tiershift-128201904

 

[megacrazyhand]

So after some playing around I would like to bring our attention to Tauros. With a new disribution of 90/115/110/55/85/125 along with Sheer Force, Tauros has become truly terrifying. Place a Choice Scarf on it to outspeed +2 Barbaracle and you're more or less guaranteed atleast one or two kills. The set I use is as follows:
Tauros (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Rock Climb
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge

I run absolutely max speed because its sheer power is enought to tear down most things and I'm not quite sure yet of the speed tiers so I want to make sure I catch anything that may be faster by surprise.

 

[Mczatar]

I have made this unoffical list from things i have seen or just noticed while playing. Tell me if you have some ideas to add to this list. Sorry for my bad english :P! Enjoy!
Threat List TS

Hide

Offensive

Rampardos
112/180/75/80/65/73
This thing is really a beast with a choice scarf and its nice movepool: EQ, Head Smash, Crunch, Brick Break, Fire Punch, Iron Head and even Surf :D!Really watch this thing can clean the match late game or even destroy your pokes at the start. He might even take a hit with his new improved defensive stats.

Kyurem
135/140/100/140/100/105
All Hail The King Kyurem! But for real, Kyurem got an amazing boost from TS. 140 in both attacks so he can be one of the best mixed attackers in the meta with moves like: Ice Beam, Outrage, Iron Head, Shadow Claw, Stone Edge, Flash Cannon and much more! But wait, That's not all! Kyurem gets a very solid 135 HP with 100 in both defensive stats. That thing can take a hit!

Haxorus
81/152/95/65/75/102
If this thing gets a Dragon Dance up, I don't want to be on the other side...

Omastar
85/75/140/130/85/70
Get this pokemon in the rain and the rest is history...
Also a very solid defensive pokemon, but x4 weakness to grass...

Venomoth
75/70/65/95/80/95
Freaking QD and BP that leads to GG...

Marowak
75/95/125/65/95/60
Those stats dosen't look like much huh? Add the item "Thick Club" and Bam! You have 190 attack stat.

Zangoose
88/130/75/75/75/105
Toxic Boost + STAB Facade + 130 Att?
This is Sparta my friend..

Kingler
70/145/130/75/75/90
Scarf + Crabhammer= Awesome!
Scarf + Crabhammer + Rain= Awesomer!

Mega-Heeacross
85/190/120/45/110/80
You do not want a pin missle from this thing! Get some speed on it or just make it bulky with its nice defenses, and that is game!


Defensive

Tangrowth
110/110/135/120/60/60
Very nice physical bulk, nice power to hit back with, nice recovery moves and capable of stalling, Tangrowth is a very good physical wall. Too bad his special defense isn't so good..

Cradily
101/96/112/96/121/58
The all fearsome fossil is back and it is back with more defenses than ever! This thing is really a massive tank that can take hits very well, dish out some damage, stall and just to really make the opponent angry!

Uxie
90/90/145/90/145/110
Uxie is just great in TS. Look at those defenses! it's like an opposite Kyurem! Nice movepool and just a great pokemon if you are looking for a mixed wall.

Probopass
75/70/160/90/165/55
The only thing that is keeping down this pokemon is the x4 weakness to fighting and ground. Other than than, a very good mixed wall that includes toxic immunity.

Dusknoir
60/115/150/80/150/60
You can also put Dusclops in here, but i have decided that Dusknoir is bulky enough. It can also have leftovers (not like Dusclops) and can dish out some nice damage back with a shadow sneak/claw and its attack stat. nice mixed wall again.

Spiritomb
65/107/123/107/123/50
Another mixed wall, but this one has only 1 weakness..

Regigigas
125/175/125/95/125/115
I really think that this thing can be a really nice defensive pokemon. If only it had some recovery moves...

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